Justin Bannan 9/24/06

[lance1086]

This is my first time doing this, so bear with me. I was mainly looking at the DTs & comparing them. I was comparing their explosion off the ball on every play (OTB: Off The Ball), and their pressure on passing plays (PRESSURE). Also, I put asterisks next to the plays, where I felt that Bannan was the most effective DT.



***Q1 1/10 Clv 14 0:27
RDE. 5 Man rush (3 DLinemen & 2 LBs). Bannan was doubled, but still got a good push. Of the 3 linemen, Bannan got the most push, followed by Franklin (he got a substantially better push than gregg, who was singled up on the RT).

Result: It was a short drop by Frye and a he released the ball quickly, negating any pressure on the play. Complete to Winslow for 11 yards.

OTB:
Franklin
Bannan
Gregg

PRESSURE:
Bannan
Franklin
Gregg



Q2 1/10 Clv 13 15:00
LDE. 3-4 Alignment (Bannan--Gregg--Franklin), With Suggs blitzing from the right (4-man rush). Bannan was singled up on the RT. Didn't get much pressure, as he was fanned outside. (NOTE: Gregg got good pressure up the middle).

Result: Again, it was a rather quick release, thus any pressure wasn't much of an issue for Frye. Complete to Edwards for 12 yards.

OTB:
Bannan
Franklin
Gregg

PRESSURE:
Gregg
Bannan
Franklin




Q2 1/10 Clv 25 14:34
RDE. 3-4 Alignment (Suggs--Gregg--Bannan). Bannan was quick off the ball, but was immediately cut-block to his knees. Got right back up, and chased after the play, jumping on the pile (but Bannan was not much of a factor in the play).

Result: Gain of 3 up the middle

OTB:
Bannan
Gregg




Q2 2/7 Clv 28 13:58
RDE. 3-4 (Suggs--Gregg--Bannan), with Scott blitzing behind a stunting Suggs. 4-man rush. Bannan chipped from LG to LT. Began to get a good push toward the QB, on the LT. But Frye got rid of the ball. The chip on Bannan did give Frye a good throwing lane.

Result: Complete to Northcut for 27 yards (very good run after the catch).

OTB:
Gregg
Bannan

PRESSURE: Both Gregg & Bannan got decent pushes toward the QB
Gregg
Bannan




***Q2 1/10 Clv 26 3:41
LDE. 3-4 (Bannan--Franklin--Gregg). Bannan was initially doubled by the RG & RT. Both released, to reach the next level. Bannan made a nice play once they released, pursuing down the line of scrimmage to make a nice hit on the ball carrier.

Result: Rush up the middle, for gain of 1

OTB:
Franklin
Bannan
Gregg

NOTE: the difference in their explosion off the ball, was minimal on this play




Q2 2/9 Clv 27 2:59
LDE. 5-man rush (3 down linemen, blitzed 2 up the middle). The rush failed to get to Frye, and Bannan was easily handled MTM by the RT. He didn't really have any impact on play.

Result: 3 step drop, quick release, pass was complete for 8 yards to Edwards.

OTB:
Franklin
Gregg
Bannan


PRESSURE: Franklin got a decent push, but Gregg nor Bannan got one.
Franklin
Gregg & Bannan were about equal




***Q2 3/1 Clv 35 2:35
Weird play to analyze. The whole 'D' was in disarray. It was a run to the right side. Bannan fought off 2 blockers & was the only lineman to not get knocked off his feet. Made the tackle, after a gain of 2, but it was still enough for the first down.

Result: 2 yard run, first down

OTB: no idea






Q2 1/Goal Bal 1 0:29
Goalline defense, featuring 4 big guys (Bannan, Gregg, Franklin, and Ngata). All were forced to play the run (since the ball was at the 1), and all got very low at the snap (submarining), attempting to get the penetration. Since it was a pass, they were all kinda screwed over & the OLinemen simply pushed them to the ground. None of the Dlinemen, including Bannan, were able to get back up in time to stop Frye from scrambling up the middle for a TD.

Result: TD

OTB: about equal, since they were all pushed to the ground at the snap.





Q4 1/10 Clv 20 14:56
LDE. 5-Man rush (3DTs, 2 LBs up the gut). Bannan took on a double-team, which helped the blitzers get pressure.

Result: Frye had to get rid of it quickly, and threw incomplete.

OTB:
Bannan
Ngata
Gregg

PRESSURE: overall, not much by the DTS
Bannan
Ngata
Gregg




Q4 2/10 Clv 20 14:53
RDT. 4-man rush. Bannan was pushed to the ground by the RT.

Result: Good pressure on the right side by Suggs & Scott forced an incomplete pass.

OTB:
Gregg & Bannan

PRESSURE:
Gregg & Bannan were equally ineffective (Bannan was pushed to the ground. Gregg was handled easily by the LG & got no penetration)




***Q4 1/10 Bal 34 7:42
RDT, next to Gregg, who was LDT (Only 2 DTs in the game). Handoff to Wright. Bannan exploded into the LT nicely, and fought off the block. He got a hand on Wright, slowing him down before Lewis, Landry, and JJ swarmed to make the tackle.

OTB:
Bannan
Gregg





***Q4 2/7 Bal 31 7:01
LDT. 5-man rush. 3 Down linemen (Bannan--Gregg--Ngata) & 2 blitzing LBs. Bannan was doubled by the RT and RG, and taken out of play. But Thomas & Scott used that double-team, to get a free run at the QB, deflecting the pass.

Result: Scott deflected pass, incomplete

OTB:
Bannan
Ngata
Gregg

Pressure: all 3 were ineffective rushing the QB


************************************************** ********
SUMMARY
************************************************** *******T
Here are the averages for Gregg's & Bannan's explosion off the ball & pressure on passes (these are only for the plays in which Bannan was in the game. Also, i didn't calculate Franklin's or Ngata's since they were only in on a couple plays). The numbers were simply calculated by comparisions (i.e., if he was the fastest off the snap, he got a 1; second fastest, he got a 2, etc. That said, if they were both equally ineffective, I'd give them a 3). Either way, the lower the better.

Bannan
OTB (10 plays) - 1.5
PRESSURE (7 plays) - 2.29


Gregg
OTB (10 plays) - 2.3
PRESSURE (7 plays) - 2.43

12 total plays: 5.7 YPP (although i thought the number was a bit misleading. 50 of those yards came on 3 successive passes, in which Bannan really didn't do anything wrong. He had a good push toward the QB on 2 of them, but Frye was delivering the ball very quickly & on target. A missed tackle in the secondary also turned into a 27 yard gain).

- 5 rushes, 10 yards (2.0 yds/carry)
- 7 passes, 58 yards (8.286 yds/pass)



The GOOD: I thought he played a solid game. Of the 12 plays he was in, he was the most effective DT (IMO) 5 out of 12 plays. His pass-rush was rather consistent. And his quickness off the ball was considerably better than both Gregg & Ngata (he was as quick or quicker off the ball, than Ngata & Gregg in 9 of the 11 plays where I could judge that). The lack of sacks while he was in cannot be completely attributed to him (he was as at the very least, just as effective a pass-rusher, as was Gregg or Ngata). He fought hard & made some nice plays against the run. He also played to the whistle on every play.


The BAD: Got pushed to the ground too often. Does not maintain as strong a base as the other DTs against the run (though he did make some nice plays in the game). Doesn't get his hands up on passes.


So overall, he looked as quick, if not quicker, than the other DTs. He also rushed the passer rather effectively (though the sack results don't show). He hustles every play. He got handled by some bigger blockers too easily at times & can take himself out of plays. He didn't play with as much leverage or maintain as strong a base as the other DTs. Doesn't put his hands up enough on passes.

[Filmstudy]

This is good Lance. For starters, you added the speed off the snap, which is something some folks should want to know.

The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.

He's a player that is fun to watch for the effort he puts out, and he's playing with the considerable disadvantage that he usually replaces a great player when he runs on the field.

I look forward to more of these sorts of analyses for the preseason.

[Filmstudy]

This is good Lance. For starters, you added the speed off the snap, which is something some folks should want to know.

The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.

He's a player that is fun to watch for the effort he puts out, and he's playing with the considerable disadvantage that he usually replaces a great player when he runs on the field.

I look forward to more of these sorts of analyses for the preseason.

[jonboy79]

I don't have any old games to re-watch, so I have to view what is pointed out by others at this point. What it appears is that Bannan was by a wide margin in either direction our 3rd best DT last year. Ngata and Gregg seperated themselves, but at the same time, Bannan seems to have seperated from Aubrayo and Dwan. Thus, IMO, unless he does improve his penetration on passing downs, which could certainly happen based on his first step, then he will be a short timer here in Baltimore. Now if he can perfect some swin moves and can fish his way into the backfield more often, then he is a valuable cog for this team. It also does appear that he needs to work on gettign lower when defending the run, as it has been pointed out he was getting pancaked back on to his "tookis"(phonics). At minimum, he provides an adequate hevy to allow the top two to catch a breather from time to time. We should have drafted another rotational guy this year, I suppose we now will next year.

[lance1086]

Originally Posted by Filmstudy

The description of the plays we have is very similar, with the only difference I can see coming in our assessment of pressure provided by Bannan. I think of the pocket as an imaginary arc or parabola around the QB. The OL's job is to keep the DL's out of that either by holding tight to a point perhaps 2-3 yards behind the LoS in the middle and also using lateral push on the side to as you say "fan out" the edge rushers. Bannan did not personally penetrate the pocket on any play, although there were some quick passes there.

Well, the "pressure" was a very comparative analysis. In that, if his pass-rush was substantially better than the other DTs on that play, I'd call it a good pass rush (even if the rush wasn't overly effective). I was just trying to see if his pass-rush was any worse than the other DTs (although i ended up only comparing him to Gregg in that aspect, due to number of plays). And in the handful of plays that I looked at, Bannan's rush wasn't any worse (in fact, in my oppinion it was slightly better; though, neither's pass-rush was particularly effective).

[lance1086]

Originally Posted by jonboy79

I don't have any old games to re-watch, so I have to view what is pointed out by others at this point. What it appears is that Bannan was by a wide margin in either direction our 3rd best DT last year. Ngata and Gregg seperated themselves, but at the same time, Bannan seems to have seperated from Aubrayo and Dwan. Thus, IMO, unless he does improve his penetration on passing downs, which could certainly happen based on his first step, then he will be a short timer here in Baltimore. Now if he can perfect some swin moves and can fish his way into the backfield more often, then he is a valuable cog for this team. It also does appear that he needs to work on gettign lower when defending the run, as it has been pointed out he was getting pancaked back on to his "tookis"(phonics). At minimum, he provides an adequate hevy to allow the top two to catch a breather from time to time. We should have drafted another rotational guy this year, I suppose we now will next year.

Jonboy, here are the 12 plays of Bannan from the Cleveland game. Quality is kinda low, but take a look at it if you want: http://files.filefront.com//;7803196;;/

[jonboy79]

[QUOTE=lance1086;39280]

Q2 2/7 Clv 28 13:58

He got tossed from one lineman to another to create a lane... not good. Not good tackling at all, which also showed up in the other earlier large gain pass play.

***Q2 1/10 Clv 26 3:41

Fought off two nice blocks here, amde the takcel. Perhaps the lineman releases because he is ahead of the first down marker??

***Q2 3/1 Clv 35 2:35
Weird play to analyze. The whole 'D' was in disarray.

I agree, though I think he was almost "lost" alone in a sea of BROWNS, and missed what could have otherwise been a tackle for a loss.


Q2 1/Goal Bal 1 0:29
This play is missing...


Q4 2/10 Clv 20 14:53
RDT. 4-man rush. Bannan was pushed to the ground by the LT.



************************************************** ********
SUMMARY
************************************************** *******T
Twice a victim of bad tackling. This does not completely excuse his lack of required push. He seems to get off the snap quickly, get s short area push and stall... He neither overwhelms his man nor gets by him. He was able to suck up a double team on more then one occasion. It seems to me he would benefit more from being on the field with Ngata on first down... Tackles seemed to have little trouble riding him wide of the pocket when coming off the edge. Perhaps we should save that for the more fleet footed and keep Bannan inside where he appeared to be more effective. Above comments are where I felt there was something to add or provide counter to Lance's observations. Otherwise I saw what he did.