For old times sake, a good old fashioned Boller thread [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

RavensNTerps

05-02-2007, 12:21 PM

I'll bring up the #s one more time... this is not to say Boller is the future, or that he's even a good QB. But it's to disprove the "all backup QBs stats are misleading" bs that I hear spewed. I gathered his stats from the last 9 games he saw significant action in (the 2 games he played all but 1 series last year: carolina and cleveland, plus every game after his injury last season except his first game back)...

The results:

Over his last 9 games (significant action, not starts)...he has:

a 57.8% completion percentage (not bad, not great)

An average of 220 yards per game

a 6.85 yards per attempt and 11.86 yards per completion

16 TDs to 10 INTs...

Pretty damn good for a backup, if you ask me.

Not advocating that he starts over McNair (though, I do believe there should be more competition than there will be)...but i'll throw this out there as a point of discussion.

McNair's Y/A last season was 6.5. Boller, over the aforementioned 9 game stretch, had a Y/A of 6.85. He had a Y/Completion of 10.33 compared with Bollers 11.86. He threw the same number of TDs (16) in essentially 14 games that Boller has thrown in the last 9.

Again, just a point of discussion.

There's a lot of blind hate for Boller. I understand some of it, he was god awful for a while. But the organization stuck this guy, who was largely a one year wonder, in to a starting role (they had no option at that point, anyway), on a team who's only wide receivers were Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Frank Sanders, and Ron Johnson. I **** you not.

He was awful, but who'd expect otherwise? He wasn't a "polished" product coming out of college, he was the type that would need help to succeed, and the organization gave him none. The next year, his supporting cast was even MORE dwindled...he was throwing to Kevin Johnson (now out of the NFL), Travis Taylor (no one wants to sign him--plus he was hurt for a good chunk of that year), Clarence Moore (will be out of the NFL soon, most likely), Randy Hymes (out of the NFL), and, yes, even Deion Sanders. Todd Heap was injured for most of this season, so he was throwing to Darnell Dinkins and Dan Wilcox at TE...I mean, honestly, not to have blind support for the guy, but come on...thats just ridiculous. Tom Brady he is not. Even so, he finished the last 8 games of the 2004 season with 10 TDs to 5 INTs, a marked sign of progress, even with missing the playoffs (due to a large factor of reasons that had NOTHING to do with Boller, by the way).

The bottom line is, he's made progress. It's undeniable. Sure, he makes blunders. But the way people talk about him, you'd think he's Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith, and he's not. In fact, over his last full season, he's play has been about that as a POOR MAN'S version of Brett Favre.

Great QB? Nope. Good QB? maybe not. Better than he gets credit for?? Absolutely. In fact, there's no real question about it.

GreenWave52

05-02-2007, 09:23 PM

I agree especially about the last part as being better than he gets credit for. That said it is still tough to watch Kyle. His acts like a frightened squirrel in the pocket and he makes a lot of dangerous throws. He is improving, but is it at a rate that will get him to be a playoff winning caliber starter in the next 2 years?

I actually think Kyle's best chance for future success is to take the cheapest deal possible to stay here in a system he is getting comfortable in. I don't think it will go well for him if he has to learn a totally different system again. Unfortunately for Kyle, I have a gut feeling that the team is not going to make him an offer of any kind and that they want a fresh start. Only if the coaches see a good amount more progress this year, that sitting behind McNair is really turning him into a QB that can win in the playoffs (or hell even consistently on the road) do I think we make him a token offer.

I supported Kyle for a long time as a wait and see guy. I've had beers with him before and he really is a good guy. But in the NFL it comes down to this: would you bet your life on Kyle Boller winning a road playoff game in Foxborough?

I sure wouldn't.

Ravenswarrior19

05-02-2007, 10:07 PM

Has he learned to read defenses yet? If option 1 doesn't come open in time, does he go through his progressions? or does the check down option 4 (running back) get the ball and immediately get blown up?

He is capable of some great throws (D Williams vs. Cleve 06) but he just isn't consistent enough. He'll be expecting cover 2, safety will instead roll down to a hook zone, and Kyle hits him right in the numbers. Still can't find linebacker underneath coverages either. I love his toughness, heart, and big arm, but there is still a lot of improvement needed to be the fulltime starter.

RavensNTerps

05-03-2007, 02:20 AM

He's also good friends with Bisciotti and Neuhesial...

copenhaggard

05-03-2007, 02:28 AM

Boller averages more yards per game than any QB in the NFL besides Brees, Manning, Bulger, Kitna, and Palmer over that 9 game stretch.

Mannings yards per completion is about 12.1, while Boller's is very close.

.......................................

What's the point of this thread?

What discussion do you want to make?

Everyone knows Boller has been a good backup.

But also, most people know he hasn't shown enough consistency to become an NFL starter.

I'm wondering why there aren't more teams beating down the door with Boller's "impressive 9 game stretch" and overall winning record...

Hmmmm.... because he's a backup, and unfortunately, he will stay that way.

Really, was this just to stir the pot? You posted the same exact thing on the YBR. What discussion do you want out of it?

For the most part, Boller hasn't performed well, regardless of the circumstances, and frankly, why exactly would I/others want him to be the starter if he's basically sucked 60% of the games he's played in? I don't condone all the shit that's said about him, among other things; but why exactly can people not let Boller shit go? Really, I don't mind the guy at all, and I know he had potential, and I understand the situation he was thrown into, but...

Frankly, I don't care if he's made progress in his backup role, because he failed to meet the expectations of the TEAM when it mattered. It's great he's getting better, but I think he missed the train already.

Frankly, why does Boller need a thread made in his honor every time he wipes his ass in the correct direction?

RavensNTerps

05-03-2007, 12:09 PM

Mista T

05-03-2007, 12:32 PM

1. It's called "the great QB debate" it is its own special board...what did you expect??

2. It IS a relevant point of discussion. Sure, Boller was terrible his first two years. He was a rookie, the youngest QB in the NFL (remember, he was younger than Roethlisburger when Roethlisburger was a rookie), and he was given a supporting cast of shit. Honestly. And when the supporting cast improved, so did his performance. That is undeniable. The numbers can't like all that much.

The way people talk about him is like he is Ryan Leaf.

And, there's a good chance he starts several games this year...but again, who knows.

The reason it's a point of discussion is b/c most people just say things like "boller sucks, he can't stand in the pocket, he stares down recevier, he just sucks, he's terrible, blah blah blah" yet the NUMBERS indicate somewhat otherwise.

:iagree:

It gets tiring to hear the "Boller sucks" - "he trips over his feet" arm-waving statements while ignoring the facts. RavensNTerps - you have made some good factual points, but many of those who just have it out for this kid will just ignore them and come back with the arm-waving bullshit.

In a nutshell: it normally takes 2 or 3 years to develop a starting NFL QB, and longer in Boller's case due to his late college start. The game has slowed down for him, and his most recent performances have been among the better in the entire league - and the last two even better than those of the starter, McNair.

One of the worst mistakes this team could make in 2008 would be to let Boller walk next season, after he is finally seasoned and knows our system, while placing its future in the hands of a 35-year old near-retiree and an inexperienced, undersized 5th rounder.

Baltoman07

05-03-2007, 08:39 PM

I agree. I'd hate to see the Ravens give up on Boller now. I respect how he has maintained his poise. It's one thing to trip and fall down, but it's another to stand back up, brush yourself off, and just when the world is expecting you to fold like a tent, throw a 77 yd TD pass(Cleveland game). Boller will never be Unitas.....but I have no problem rooting for a guy like him.

Art-Florida

05-11-2007, 03:19 PM

Tsk tsk...Tex got kicked off the Sun board (again) as 'Slewfoot', but is merrily posting Boller-hate on the crayon board as 'Spike Marlin' and has again graced us with his wisdom here - as 'Tex Ritter'. Cybil can only wish she had as many names.

You are on my ignore list, Tex, but it's not too difficult to puzzle out what you have to say in threads like this one. (or any other thread)

esmd

05-17-2007, 02:49 AM

Ah, some good "old" Boller talk.:)

This season will be interesting, as I think Boller will see a good amount of action. McNair's record with injuries suggests that it's inevitable.

Kyle still has a ways to go, but I think he has what it takes, no matter what oldsugarslewghostnobletexspikefoot:069: says.

festivus

05-17-2007, 10:43 AM

Art, be glad you have Tex on your ignore list.

I don't have Tex on ignore, but then again, I stop and stare at forest fires, too.

Tex, rest assured nobody *ever* forgets the point of your post(s).

Art-Florida

05-19-2007, 11:38 AM

Art, be glad you have Tex on your ignore list.

I don't have Tex on ignore, but then again, I stop and stare at forest fires, too.

Tex, rest assured nobody *ever* forgets the point of your post(s).

Forest fires? Truly warped...unless you have a fondness for charcoal-broiled bears with mountie hats. Mmmmm, with maybe a side order of fries and a bottle of vintage Tuesday MD 20-20. Can't beat it.

Tex is a phenomenon of nature, much like gerbils, or Ebola.

festivus

05-19-2007, 12:32 PM

Or forest fires. ;)

ClericBlackDave

05-26-2007, 05:15 PM

Thing is, Boller is soooo young. He's young, has physical attributes most QBs not named Michael Vick would kill for, and just getting seasoned. He is younger than Rothlesberger, and he was drafted a year before.

You look at his performances over the last 10 games and its pretty impressive.

The arm waving BS and people saying its scary to watch him . . . is just plain retarded. You know its scary to watch most QBs not named Manning or Brady play. Because they're going to take a bad sack eventually, or fumble and lose the ball. Plenty of QBs make that 1-2 bad mistakes a game, forced or unforced. But other coaches and other teams fans get over that cause they let their QB play real football and a real offense and they make explosive plays, more than enough to make up for a mistake or two.

Thats what I saw out of Boller's last 10 games. He's a Brett Favre type. You'll need to let him throw it around and take the good with the bad in the hopes that the good outweighs the bad.

The cleveland game. It wasn't the smoothest ride, but his deep pass to Clayton for 40 or so yards and his 77 TD pass to D Will are the kind of game changing plays a team like ours needs, to let the defense be inspired, and to put points on the board.

Finally, I'll say that what bothers me about McNair is 3 things 1) taht I don't feel like he makes enough big plays to make up for his mistakes 2) he's older and only getting older by the minute 3) that he doesn't seem to have the competitive fire he once had, like when I watched him live at M&T bank stadium beat the Ravens as a Titan

If we let Boller go, we're resetting the team's whole QB situation, and it will be a shit storm unless Troy Smith pans out.

And in the end, thats what this season's QB situation comes down to:

1) How much time does McNair miss, and does Boller do well in relief

2) How good does Troy Smith look in camp / preseason / practices

3) How good does McNair look, or does he look rather pedestrian (like much of last year)

4) How does the O-line perform for all the QBs abvoe

Raveninwoodlawn

05-28-2007, 07:17 PM

I definately can agree with Ravens&Terps.

Some of the other stuff...is just pure Boller colored glasses.

Boller is not Ryan Leaf, he is not Brett Farve either.

He needs to produce on the road...that has ALWAYS been his problem.

And some of the shots at McNair are a joke...The team has stated McNair has maybe 2 years left, including this year...he isn't going to be starting when he is 38, and to question his heart or desire is a joke.

Will it be a mistake letting Boller go after this year, maybe, but the team did it to themselves by rushing him, and basically forcing them to go with the vet during the years he should be blossoming instead of the vet when he was obviously very raw.

Hopefully, the team can get a young QB next year to learn as I'm not a big Troy Smith is the answer guy either...I see Jeff Blake w/o the attitude...not a bad player, but a franchise guy?...naw.

Either way, I think you can't just say the team has to keep him...Boller has to want to stay here, I doubt he sees a future here.

Mista T

05-29-2007, 10:02 AM

I am going on record as predicting Boller has no future anywhere he goes as a starting NFL QB.

Shocking!:laugh:

crazyraven

06-06-2007, 10:08 AM

Shocking!
Not for nothing that is kind of funny. :laugh:

weirddave

06-18-2007, 12:45 AM

I said this over at another board. I'm perfectly happy with Boller. I don't wish harm on anyone, not really, but when I read the Boller basher's blind hate and determination to ignore stats, trends and the simple facts of the timeline of an NFL career, I find myself almost wishing for McNair to go down with a season ending injury and for Kyle to step up and perform well, as he would, just so I can dance around chanting "Suck it, suck it suck it; suck it, suck it suck it!" after the Ravens win their second SB championship.*

*Please note: I said "I don't wish harm on anyone, not really" and also "almost wish", so save the 'OMG!YouwantourQBtogethurt!!!" hate, m'kay?

crazyraven

06-18-2007, 09:03 AM

*Please note: I said "I don't wish harm on anyone, not really" and also "almost wish", so save the 'OMG!YouwantourQBtogethurt!!!" hate, m'kay?
Sorry weirdo but that doesnt fly. You can try to qualify it but its still wrong. If you know you have to put this *Note* in then you probably should have known not to put in your stupid take on Mcnair getting hurt.

Thanks for showing your true colors right out the gate. Anyone who wishes an injury to see another do well is a fucking douche bag but thats jmho. m'kay

weirddave

06-18-2007, 10:55 AM

Sorry weirdo but that doesnt fly. You can try to qualify it but its still wrong. If you know you have to put this *Note* in then you probably should have known not to put in your stupid take on Mcnair getting hurt.

Thanks for showing your true colors right out the gate. Anyone who wishes an injury to see another do well is a fucking douche bag but thats jmho. m'kay

Oh, go sodomize yourself with a tent pole. I said what I said, and I mean WHAT I SAID. You can try to make it something different, but all that does is make you look like a flaming turd (as if your ignorant posts hadn't shown that already).

Mista T

07-01-2007, 06:16 PM

The Ravens are not in good hands if Boller has to step in, they are in deep crapploa, and everyone knows it.

Do you really believe that happy-horseshit you post, or do you just like to try to stir up responses?

I would say that I was extremely pleased with Boller's performance in 4 of his last 5 games -- where he outperformed McNair. If McNair were injured or his sad-sack right arm gave out or if he announced his retirement tomorrow, I wouldn't break a sweat -- actually would be more optimistic about our future, which would become more settled. I don't give a rat's ass about Aaron Wilson's perspective -- he doesn't know football as well as I do. Aaron's a nice guy and all, but he's just a young journalist.

So how about before making sweeping "everyone knows it" comments, you just speak for yourself.

The Fanatic

07-01-2007, 08:05 PM

Maybe you should gain at least some elementary football knowledge and ability to judge an NFL quarterback when it comes to talent, before casting stones at others weirddave. To help you in that regard here is something by Aaron Wilson regarding how well regarded Boller is by the Ravens:

Aaron Wilson, RavensInsider.com
Baltimore Ravens

The Baltimore Ravens' prospects would be reduced dramatically for the postseason if anything happens to Steve McNair. While Kyle Boller, a first-round bust, knows the system and performed adequately when called upon twice last season, he is still prone to erratic decisions and gets flustered if his primary or secondary read are covered. He also tends to trip often while dropping back from center. Trust me, it would be problematic if McNair goes down and the Cincinnati Bengals would likely claim the AFC North crown."

The Ravens are not in good hands if Boller has to step in, they are in deep crapploa, and everyone knows it.

Normally I stay out of this Boller bullshit, but sometimes.......

Listen here Tex,
We all know how you feel about Boller as it's been well documented by you on here a trillion times, but to take Aarons Opinion of Boller from the Insiders board and attempt to state it as fact as to how the Ravens feel about Boller is as much as a pile of bullshit as you are in general.

There is nothing in that text written by Aaron that states that that is how the Ravens feel about Boller.
It very well may be true, but none the less, there is nothing factual in that text as you would like to lead on to believe.

crazyraven

07-03-2007, 10:05 PM

arron makes a lot of sense and has many facts that support his opinion.

oh and lol at mr t and his boller out performed mcnair take. good stuff yo

Mista T

07-03-2007, 10:31 PM

oh and lol at mr t and his boller out performed mcnair take. good stuff yo

You are way too easy, Crazy. Read 'em & weep:

McNair:

295/468 3050-yards 63% 6.52-YPA 87-long 16-TD 12-int 14-sack 82.5-rating

Boller:

33/55 485-yds 60% 8.82-YPA 77-long 5-TD 2-int 3-sack 104-rating

And, the most important stat:

play-off games totally fucked up to cost us the season -- McNair = 1 :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

crazyraven

07-03-2007, 10:59 PM

lol at mr t again with trying to hype a back up first round bust over a 13 and 3 qb former league MVP. dude come on stop the nonesense. NOBODY is buying it. with takes like this his moderator status should be in serious jeopardy.

Mista T

07-03-2007, 11:03 PM

with takes like this his moderator status should be in serious jeopardy.

What does my personal opinion about the Ravens worst-ever $33 million player transaction have to do with moderating a message board? Do you think that moderators should be the "Haters" only? :229031_confused2:

crazyraven

07-03-2007, 11:25 PM

its one thing to have a take but nobody likes to be snowed ala used car salesman style. I have to admit you are good. you can make a jalopy sound like a mint musle car.

but whatever...you can resight stat after stat and everybody but the few on this board will laugh hard in your face with that BS about Boller. you know it too at least I hope you do.

no about the mods have to be haters but to give you an idea of what you sound like just imagine if oldfan or wso was the mod. yup, its like that.

Mista T

07-04-2007, 09:07 AM

but whatever...you can resight stat after stat and everybody but the few on this board will laugh hard in your face with that BS about Boller. you know it too at least I hope you do.

Not really. Very few Ravens fans that I personally know do not support sticking with Boller in the long run, and no one that I personally knows are of the ilk to cheer when he was injured. I believe that the message board and call-in crowd of Haters is different than the mainstream Ravens fans.

no about the mods have to be haters but to give you an idea of what you sound like just imagine if oldfan or wso was the mod. yup, its like that.

That a crock.:thumbdown:

Some of the "Hater" crowd repeatedly posted despicable personal insults towards Boller the individual person, as opposed to limiting discussing how he plays. As you may recall from the other board, we even had some members who supported cheering of Boller's injury and at least one who admitted participating.

I don't loathe Steve McNair - he's OK for an aging average vet, just not anywhere near worth the $$$ spent for him. My problem is with the Front Office for overpaying him, winding up (just as I had predicted) in being unable to afford to keep our best player, Adalius Thomas.

crazyraven

07-04-2007, 10:32 AM

don't know how cheering for boller when he got hurt fits in to this other than the people who did do it were from baltimore...that's the 'ilk' your must be refering to.

if your problem is with the front office then why the mcnair to boller comparisons? you compare a season to two games, one in which resulted in a loss and neither one was a start. its a stretch considering all the other ball games you have to go on with boller.

when you say your beef is with the FO it doesn't add up you continually try to slam mcnair in favor of boller. and for what, because the FO paid him 33 mil? we were 13 and 3 with mcnair and we made the playoffs with him starting, you can't say the same for boller.

fwiw I do not listen to the baltimore sports stations. sirus radio subscriber. however judging by what you are saying it sounds like those people who are calling in have it right. the average fan knows what kyle is made of. get a clue its not a vocal minority.

Art-Florida

07-04-2007, 11:24 AM

There are five quarterbacks on the Ravens' roster. The one with the most natural talent, by far, is Kyle Boller. Deal with it.

The one with the most heart is Kyle Boller. (several runnersup are close) Deal with it.

The one with the best recent stats is Kyle Boller. I guess you have to deal with that too.

Kyle Boller haters are irrational. He stumbles and his head goes into overdrive, yes, but he's a brave loyal kid with a howitzer arm. What's to hate, really?

crazyraven

07-06-2007, 04:26 AM

tex that had to be one of the best follow ups to any post I have ever read from you. my god that was some funny stuff right there. stating the obvious around this joint is a lost art and it is quite refreshing.

as for Mister T you never got back about why if you are so mad at the FO way make outlandish comparisons between boller and mcnair. oh nevermind hoe can I trust what you are going to say.. you've aready stated that you 'wouldn't break a sweat''and would be 'optimistic' if steve was injured. you're from baltimore right? Its not a crock, with takes like that how come you're still a mod? Seriously?

Rex Thunder

07-13-2007, 11:29 AM

But in the NFL it comes down to this: would you bet your life on Kyle Boller winning a road playoff game in Foxborough?

I sure wouldn't.

I'm not ready for a full response to this yet, although I will say I always had more faith in Kyle than most- and do feel he was put in a bad spot from the start- beginning with his holdout during his rookie season... BUT- my comment here is... to say "Would you bet your LIFE..." come on man- I wouldn't bet my life on Tom Brady, Joe Montana or John Elway in the playoffs, much less Kyle Boller." A paycheck, maybe...

Rex Thunder

07-13-2007, 11:55 AM

The problem with Boller is he is hideous on the road and since 50% of all games an NFL team plays are road games that to me is more than enough to send Boller packing regardless of how "young" he is. Face it, the guy suffers major meltdowns under pressure. Only Boller's utmost supporters are willing to overlook this and focus only on the 'big plays" he sometimes creates. But let's deal with reality here, how many of these so-called "big plays" have come on the road in a hostile environment when the game was on the line? Please share the abundance of these plays with us and perhaps we might be Boller believers? :rolleyes:

The fact that Boller is so terrible and ineffective on the road IMO points to two major factors: 1) he can't handle pressure 2) the rest of the team knows this and their play suffers accordingly (a pyschological letdown when you know your QB is going to fall apart). Boller can play til he's forty and I don't see him conquoring his lack of poise. It is ingrained in his hyper, nervous, and rapid speach personality. He would make a perfect auctioneer instead of a QB.:p

Off the top of my head, he lead a comeback drive against the Jets 3 years ago. I know of a few more drives he lead in the final minutes too, but they were at home. You continually attack his "lack of poise" and his "nervous" feet and personality, but you are only looking at the glass half empty. If you want to point out his flaws, fine. That's not exactly a tough thing to do, but don't suggest he doesn't have upside.

As some other posters have noted, his second season as the starter, he had NO WEAPONS to work with, and he started off the season playing well. His first season was rushed. He held out. He STILL started AT PITTSBURGH in week one. He held the weight of the franchise on his back from Day One, and it took a toll. With no offensive weapons to help him, and an offensive philosophy that handcuffed him from his most positive attributes, in favor of a very conservative approach, he just never got going.

I'd say to judge him from his more recent playing stats will serve us well. Steve Young was getting beat up in Tampa- went to San Francisco, waited for years behind Montana- and flourished. Yes, Boller is no Young- but the correlation is obvious. Not every quarterback is GREAT from day one. Rich Gannon was a nomad for like 10 seasons, and HE BECAME AN MVP! Kyle Boller has been booed on the field at his home stadium, and then cheered after getting hurt. What did he do, he took it like a man. He said the fans have the right to express their opinion. he didn't cry like a Tim Couch. He stood up, took it, and came back as a backup, eager to soak up whatever knowledge he could from McNair. THAT, right there, if for no other reason, is enough for him to deserve a little bit of respect form people like you so ready to throw him under the bus. Criticize if you must, but have some respect for the man!

I'm a huge fan of McNair, in fact I was an Oilers fan before the Ravens came to Baltimore- but his career is in its twilight- and with our aging defense... the truth is, we could be only a few years away from a completely different look. Perhaps a team with a more offensive minded philosophym rather than all defense. When Ray Ray retires, along with a few others, whose to say with our young wide receivers, and exciting new backfield- along with avery young crop of O-lineman, we don't develop more of a deep passing game. Boller fits that bill. Will it happen, I doubt it. BUt if it does, and Kyle is the front runner to lead the team, I hope people so eager to dismiss what potential he has, give him a chance to show what he had learned the past two years- and not what he did as he was learning on the go his first 3 years, with the weight of an entire city on his back

Rex Thunder

07-13-2007, 12:10 PM

You don't lose your job to an aging vet brought into replace you unless your team pretty much thinks little of your performance. Now that is a fact, anyway you try to spin it.:rolleyes:

Okay, most of what you say about Boller is obvious. Yes, he can get flustered. Yes, he is prone to happy feet. He is prone to a lot of mstakes at times. I could make an argument that a lot of this has been to over coaching, to a point where he became too mechanical, and lost his instincts. Now with less pressure, he performed better... but that's not the point os this response.

"You don't lose your job to an aging veteran unless your team pretty much thinks little of your performance?"??? You act as though they brought in Damon Huard or something. They passed on Kerry Collins and Daunte Culpepper, as well as a few others. It was either, MCNAIR, or we'll stick with Boller. It wasn't like they were going after ANYONE to replace Boller.

The Ravens have a storied history playing against McNair and they know his toughness. The window was/is running out with our veteran laced team built round Ray Lewis, and they thought bringing in McNair, and ONLY McNair would be a "significant" upgrade. McNair is a Spuerbowl quarterback who is tough and normally clutch. He controls the offense, which is what this team needed. That's not a knock on Boller, just the truth. McNair is better right now than Boller, no doubt. McNair is a better fit for THIS team. But to say that bringing in an "aging vet" to replace him should tell us what we need to know of Boller's talent is just not fair. (to be polite)

You might as well tell me how bad my fossil watch is because I saw Rolex on sale and decided to jump on it.

festivus

07-13-2007, 01:47 PM

Rex, welcome to the forum.

Please do not quote Tex in your replies to him, some of us get migraines when we have to read his nonsense.

Bear in mind when trying to talk to him, he's not rational or fair, so traditional techniques of reasoned discussion are wasted.

Many of us, myself included, have him on 'ignore'.

Good luck, if you must joust with that windmill.

Mista T

07-14-2007, 07:26 PM

Unfortunately, if only they could have traded for McNair back in 2003 instead of drafting Boller, I have no doubt there would be at least another Lombardi won by the Baltimore RAvens.

What a crock!:thumbdown:

Did you happen to see what happened to McNair in the 15-6 humiliation to the Colts? McNair panics in the big games. Everyone else played their hearts out, the crowd was worked up as much or more than ever, the Defense played a great game against an offensive powerhouse. Yet McNair did exactly what I expected: laid an egg. Just as he did a few weeks earlier in Cincy. That dumbass 4th Q interception was a rookie-type mistake that cost us a run at the Super Bowl and the season. Criticize away about any of Boller's blunders -- none compared in severity with McNair's poor playoff game performance, and, in particular, the ill-conceived 4th Q interception.

As to 2003, I would love to have seen the Ravens have hired a good vet as well. Delhome was available. I would have also preferred hiring a vet in subsequent seasons, aiming to slowly develop Boller as the understudy. But the Ravens passed on the best one available in 2006 - Brees - and instead took on the too old, weak-armed, and overpaid McNair.

If McNair had been here in 2003, we would have been no better off. No playoff wins. It's the Defense & Jamal that has carried this team ever since Tony Banks' magic 2nd half '99 season and after he lost his touch after the Jax game in 2000.

RavensNTerps

07-15-2007, 09:50 PM

What a crock!:thumbdown:

Did you happen to see what happened to McNair in the 15-6 humiliation to the Colts? McNair panics in the big games. Everyone else played their hearts out, the crowd was worked up as much or more than ever, the Defense played a great game against an offensive powerhouse. Yet McNair did exactly what I expected: laid an egg. Just as he did a few weeks earlier in Cincy. That dumbass 4th Q interception was a rookie-type mistake that cost us a run at the Super Bowl and the season. Criticize away about any of Boller's blunders -- none compared in severity with McNair's poor playoff game performance, and, in particular, the ill-conceived 4th Q interception.

As to 2003, I would love to have seen the Ravens have hired a good vet as well. Delhome was available. I would have also preferred hiring a vet in subsequent seasons, aiming to slowly develop Boller as the understudy. But the Ravens passed on the best one available in 2006 - Brees - and instead took on the too old, weak-armed, and overpaid McNair.

If McNair had been here in 2003, we would have been no better off. No playoff wins. It's the Defense & Jamal that has carried this team ever since Tony Banks' magic 2nd half '99 season and after he lost his touch after the Jax game in 2000.

T-

You've got to be kidding me.

McNair is declining, no doubt. But he went to a Superbowl in his career, and probably would have won another if not for the Ravens.

Furthermore, the year in question, 2003, he was co-MVP with Peyton Manning.

If we had had McNair instead of rookie Boller in 2003, there is NO question we win at least one playoff game. The only difference is, it probably wouldn't have been over the Titans.

Raveninwoodlawn

07-16-2007, 10:32 AM

RavensNTerps

07-16-2007, 11:00 AM

Despite T starting every post with "I don't have anything against McNair but his salary" bit, everything after that sentence is a bash.

And I don't see how McNair kept us from signing Thomas...I think a lot of things when into him not coming back.

I agree. If anything, the massive contracts given to a guy like Ray Lewis, who is, indeed, underperforming BASED ON HIS CONTRACT (is he really playing like the best linebacker in football? I'd still have him top 15, but 3rd best on the RAVENS last year).

Remember also, big contracts recently signed by Reed, McAlister and Heap.

And an upcoming big contract that will be signed by Suggs. Though, I could very strongly argue that Thomas would have been more important to keep than Suggs, at least we'll have kept one of them.

Mista T

07-16-2007, 11:04 AM

And I don't see how McNair kept us from signing Thomas

How about: depleting the players salary budget by mega-millions? Simple math: had the Ravens signed a low priced vet to back up Boller, there may have been enough cap space to have re-signed Thomas, keeping the best player fron the NFL's best Defense. Based on Boller's performance over the past 5 games, this clearly would have been the better move.

If we were going to destroy the cap anyway, we could have gone after a younger and more competent FA, i.e. Brees.

highwater

07-16-2007, 11:24 AM

I'm happy McNair is a Raven, but T is right about the contract being too much. We overpaid for him when we didn't really have to.

Rex Thunder

07-16-2007, 01:26 PM

T-

You've got to be kidding me.

McNair is declining, no doubt. But he went to a Superbowl in his career, and probably would have won another if not for the Ravens.

Furthermore, the year in question, 2003, he was co-MVP with Peyton Manning.

If we had had McNair instead of rookie Boller in 2003, there is NO question we win at least one playoff game. The only difference is, it probably wouldn't have been over the Titans.

Well, in fairness, McNair did make a Superbowl, and played well init- but that was after a miracle- LITERALLY. The Music City Miracle catapulted that team in that season. They had no business getting out of the first round that year... but with that said...

I have always been a McNair fan, and think he DID make us a better team...HOWEVER, in just about EVERY primetime game last year, he played the way we'd expect Boller to play. Denver, Monday night, awful interception in the endzone that could have given us th elead. Cincinnati- how many INTs did he have again??? And of course the Colts playoffs loss. The first two were road games, but the playoff loss at home was the worst. He didn't have the road crowd to blame. I won't say I'm not concerned about his play in the bigger games this year- because there is serious reason to be concerned. He is playing conservative, and is better at the short routes that our offense has emphasized- but weak in the deep passes that Billick likes to gamble on. I'll feel better if we beat Cinci in week one and McNair is a difference maker- until then, I'll still be a skeptic, but cautiously optimistic!

I was ecstatic when we first signed McNair, but while I think he surely makes us better, I do have my doubts about his ability to get us to the promised land.... but hey, so did EVERYONE about Peyton Manning! Fact is, we need the ENTIRE team to step up- the way the Colts did againts us when Peyton flopped...

Let's go training camp!

crazyraven

07-16-2007, 01:54 PM

If we were going to destroy the cap anyway, we could have gone after a younger and more competent FA, i.e. Brees.

Brees cost the saints 60 million dollars over 6 years. You want to lose more players?

The Ravens went 13-3 and you can point to Mcnair for the reason why that level of success was achieved. Mcnairs salary for this season is just a measly 5.45 million and it just goes up a million for next season, Sorry but Mcnair is a bargain compared to what you are talking about. After 2008 we will probably restructure his contract to make it ravens friendly and retire with the us.

We lost one defensive player and we wont miss a beat. In the past we have lost others defensive players and they never played the way they did when they played here.

Greg

07-16-2007, 02:15 PM

The Ravens went 13-3 and you can point to Mcnair for the reason why that level of success was achieved. Mcnairs salary for this season is just a measly 5.45 million and it just goes up a million for next season,
Funny, Brees' numbers you quoted included his signing bonus, add that in and he isn't such a bargain against Brees.

jonboy79

07-16-2007, 02:28 PM

And an upcoming big contract that will be signed by Suggs. Though, I could very strongly argue that Thomas would have been more important to keep than Suggs, at least we'll have kept one of them.

I thouroughly disagree with that. Suggs, is without a doubt, a less replaceable player then AD. AD is great, I know, btu he is also a nearly 30 year old player that relies on speed an athleticism to be elite. Suggs is a soon to be 25 year old player, that has gotten to the QB with less then stellar quickness and speed, and has steadily improved every other aspect of his game every single year.
The real question is, who is going to give you more production over the nex t5 years, not who was better this past (singular) year.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have kept them both, but if it's a decision between the two, I don't really think it's a brainbuster, and that the raven's made the correct choice. I'll take McNair over AD anyday as well. McNair will improve in his second season with the Ravens, mark my words.

crazyraven

07-16-2007, 03:28 PM

Funny, Brees' numbers you quoted included his signing bonus, add that in and he isn't such a bargain against Brees.
Fair enough but I dont think you'll find this funny. In two years Brees will make a total of 25 million before the 2007 season is finished (22 before it starts). Mcnair would have to play 3 years just to make 20 Million as a raven. Honestly id give steve 20 million for last years season if a guy like Brees made more than that. You know If the ravens made the same deal with brees we would be in worse shape with the cap. Mcnair has stabilized this team where in the past the position he plays was the most erratic. If You want to knock his play fine, but the cap number? He's a bargin, yo. He's a bargin.

Raveninwoodlawn

07-16-2007, 03:33 PM

How about: depleting the players salary budget by mega-millions? Simple math: had the Ravens signed a low priced vet to back up Boller, there may have been enough cap space to have re-signed Thomas, keeping the best player fron the NFL's best Defense. Based on Boller's performance over the past 5 games, this clearly would have been the better move.

If we were going to destroy the cap anyway, we could have gone after a younger and more competent FA, i.e. Brees.

If the team wanted to spend big bucks on AD they would have. Did you just see that contract McGahee just got? This team pays who it wants to pay and there is no doubt in my mind, if they wanted to sign a 30 year old LB to a mega deal, they would have.

And all Boller has proven over the past 5 games is that against mediocre teams at home is a good QB. On the road or against a truly elite team, he has wet the bed. You have to do more than beat 4 sub .500 teams at home before you start declaring him the answer. Do I wish Boller would have another opportunity...sure, but you can't do that after blowing 3 years waiting on him and take yet another chance with an aging team.