Grading the Draft

[Beerracuda]

Yeah, I know we still have 2 more picks, but now's as good a time as ever to grade this years' draft.

I give this years' draft A-

We addressed our most desperate need, something I've been bitching about for MANY years - the Offensive Line.

The FO dedicated this year's draft to the O-line, and in turn we got some real studs. Grubbs will be an immediate starter at G, and Yanda might just start this year as well at G/T.

When Figurs was announced, I was scratching my head at first. The last thing this team needs is another WR, as strange as it seems to say that after many years of having NO ONE. However, after reading up on this guy, and seeing that they intend to use him on ST, I think this is a great pick. An explosive runner with 4.3 speed and a 2nd gear! This is huge. With BJ Sams injury prone, and possible NFL penalties coming down, Figurs might just give us that extra 10-15 yards in field position. In my opinion, that's just what this offense needs - a short field every time. That certainly would've helped back in Jan against the Dolts.

Picking up Troy Smith at the very end of the 5th round was a great value pick! I have my doubts about Smith's abilities to make it as an NFL QB, but at pick #174, it's hard to see any down side to this. Let him work with McNair for a year or two, and he might just pan out. Who knows?

The only downside to this draft is not drafting a very good CB. I think we need one to eventually take the place of Rolle/McAlister. But that's minor, since that need is still probably 3 years away.

In summation, Oz pulls another rabbit out of his hat! Us football fans here in Baltimore should be extremely happy for having Oz as our GM!! Another great draft!!!

[camdenyard]

The only downside to this draft is not drafting a very good CB. I think we need one to eventually take the place of Rolle/McAlister. But that's minor, since that need is still probably 3 years away.

I think Rolle will need to step into a nickle back role after 2007. So I have to think the Ravens see Derrick Martin filling that role. There is also Pittman, who knows about him.

[RavensInBrazil]

Agreed. I couldn't have hoped for a much better draft than this

I believe we didn't take a CB this draft because we already got a few these past couple of years, and we don't really know what we have with them yet. IMO, we'll play them a little more extensively this season and next off-season we'll deal with the situation accordingly

Either way, Ozzie is a master!

[PARavensJeff]

I think Rolle will need to step into a nickle back role after 2007. So I have to think the Ravens see Derrick Martin filling that role. There is also Pittman, who knows about him.

We better find out about Pittman soon. We spent a #3 on him last year & heard how he was a steal & the team expected alot from him & he turns out to be a big 0 last year. I don't know if he was slow on the uptake or his work ethic was poor but that's a big waste if he turns into a bust.

[ypjim]

I think you guys are underestimating Figus too. He will be great at KR/PR but he can aslo be a play maker at WR as well. Did you see the Kansas State game vs. Texas he was unreal. Micheal Irving actually nick named him the playmaker.

You also have to realize he has never had a good QB throwing him the ball. That will change with McNair.

[ravens-maniac]

I give it an A- as well, but we really won't know for a year or two. I hate to say it but the browns look like they had a great draft, Savage did a great job

[ypjim]

The Browns did have a great draft but they sold next year's draft to have it and who knows if Quinn is going to make a great QB? If Miami would rather have Beck, what does that tell you?

[ClericBlackDave]

I would give it a B / B-


Really, it depends on how these players pan out. None of them seems like a slam dunk other than Grubbs in the 1st round.


Troy Smith is not someone I would want backing up McNair this year, but he could be the future. A good value later in the draft, but not NFL ready by any stretch of the imagination.


Two OLBs after resigning Jarrett Johnson. I'm not sure if these guys will be special teamers or depth at OLB or both. But nothing to write home to mother about, YET


A guard who may or may not be able to play RT. Not sure how excited I am about that. We better hope Terry can make the transition to RT or we sign a FA RT quick.


Dawan Landry, no-one knew he'd be great. So obviously, until we see these guys in camp, preseason, and the regular season no-one knows.


But at this point, I wouldn't grade the draft in the A range.


I wouldn't grade it in the A range just based on the fact that we didn't get a true RT that we can go with.


Not a slam dunk, not yet. But we'll see.

[RustonRifle]

I give the Ravens FO A+.

Since the Ravens traded three picks from this years draft to help land McGahee and McNair, they should be a factor in any analysis regarding draft grades, atleast from my point of view.


On the drafting end-
I thought the Ravens blended need areas in their selections and also seemed to get value along the way landing some players who could contibute right away.

Grubbs , I loved this pick.

Figurs- intruiging return prospect, the speed displayed in the highlights was eyepopping.

Yanda-Liked what I read on him and the few highlights shown.


McClain- The FB I was hoping for. I thought the Bama connection with Ozzie would work in his favor but the Ravens looked as though they got value with the pick.

Smith- Here's a guy many people had slated as a late first to early third round selection till things started to unravel in the Florida game. For me getting TS as a 5th round compensitory pick was outstanding.

[Ravenswarrior19]

I'm surprised the Brady Quinn trade isn't getting more time on this board. I'm hoping Oz and the crew have a good idea of the type of QB he will be. I'd hate to imagine if he was good. We'll be competing with Palmer, Rothlesb., and Quinn for he next decade. Without a young QB ourselves, I don't think thats a formula for success.

We went in yesterday (and most draft days) with a philosophy of not reaching for players. But if Quinn turns out to be a franchise QB, I think he would be worth a significant reach.

Overall though, I trust in the wizard.
"A" grade
Can't wait to see Grubbs bulldozing guys and us running right through them.

[UKRavenStockers]

I give the Ravens FO A+.
Since the Ravens traded three picks from this years draft to help land McGahee and McNair, they should be a factor in any analysis regarding draft grades, atleast from my point of view.
I thought the Ravens blended need areas in their selections and also seemed to get value along the way landing some players who could contibute right away.

Grubbs , I loved this pick.

Figurs- intruiging return prospect, the speed displayed in the highlights was eyepopping.

Yanda-Liked what I read on him and the few highlights shown.


McClain- The FB I was hoping for. I thought the Bama connection with Ozzie would work in his favor but the Ravens looked as though they got value with the pick.

Smith- Here's a guy many people had slated as a late first to early third round selection till things started to unravel in the Florida game. For me getting TS as a 5th round compensitory pick was outstanding.

Idiots who have no idea about how players are actually graded. Smith was never a great pro-prospect. He won the Heisman because he was just about the best of a rank average bunch. His mechanics are terrible and we've got a lot of work to do if we want to get anything from him.

[Sephy]

His mechanics aren't terrible, but they can get sloppy at times. He was in Kiper's top 30 at the end of the season, pre-Florida. His combine continued his spiral down.

[psuasskicker]

Idiots who have no idea about how players are actually graded. Smith was never a great pro-prospect.

Seriously, you're the ONLY person buying your own hype on this. If Smith were three inches taller he'd have been a lock top five pick. And till the Florida game, everyone had him somewhere in the first or second round with a LOT of discussion back and forth about which. But no one had him lower than the middle of the second. He was on Kipers top 25 prior to that Florida game.

I don't think anyone here was saying he was a lock star player in the NFL, and I don't know what you define as "great pro-prospect". But Smith dropped from anywhere between 15 and 45 to us at 174 because of the Florida game.

Feel free to prove us all wrong though and show us ONE respected scouting outlet that had Smith as a second day pick prior to 1/7/07. Good luck with that.

- C -

[PurpleRulz]

The Browns did have a great draft but they sold next year's draft to have it and who knows if Quinn is going to make a great QB? If Miami would rather have Beck, what does that tell you?

The only thing impressive about the Browns draft is moving up to get Brady Quinn. To me, Quinn' success makes or breaks this draft. You could not mess up having the 3rd overall pick in this year's draft. They better pray that Joe Thomas is not Robert Gallery though. I remember Gallery having the same kind of hype as Thomas.

The drafts that impress me most happened with three late round teams, The Ravens, Cowboys and Pats. The Pats and Cowboys did very well for themselves and came out of this with two first rounders yet again for 2008. Plus, each team added some nice pieces this year.

The Ravens had an UGLY draft, which is what we needed, and check this out. We got the TOP rated guard (Grubbs), the fastest player in the draft (Figurs), the top rated FB (McClain), and a former heisman winner (Smith). I also like the depth pickup of Yanda.

I give our draft an -A, but it too early for draft grades.

[ClericBlackDave]

Giving this draft an "A" is drinking the purple Kool Aid.

Thinking Troy Smith is going to be any different than a Derek Anderson or all the other late round QBs is a joke.

The team has always been bad at developing this position, and Smith's mechanics are sketchy at best.



Grubbs was a homerun, but we have a gaping hole at RT. Unless Yanda can start this could be ugly.


Figurs could be hit or miss.


Giving it an A is drinking the Kool Aid.


A "B" is about right for now, until we see different.

[ypjim]

I think a B is fair.

[Sephy]

Terry is not a gaping hole. He's an unknown at RT who performed OK at LT in the past.

Smith's mechanics are about the only thing you need to fix about him. He doesn't need to be taught accuracy, touch, pocket presence, decision making, etc like a lot of our past QB picks. He does all those things well! If you lock up his mechanics, which isn't a difficult responsibility for our staff, it could work out well. He's not just any late round QB.

[Gabrosin]

I'm giving this draft a B-. Grubbs looks solid but Staley would have filled a bigger need with the same level of talent. Yanda is a pretty big unknown right now, I would have been much happier with Staley and a guard in the 3rd/4th. Figurs seems like he was taken too high for the need we have... there are plenty of fast guys who can make an impact on a return game. I like the McClain pick, and Troy Smith was good value where we got him. The two OLBs are hopefully good for depth/ST. What really lowers the grade IMO is that we had an interest in Quinn and got beaten out for him, and then had a well-publicized interest in Staley and lost him too, then somehow wound up with two thirds instead of taking someone we liked in the second and picking up Figurs or Yanda or both on day 2. I was hoping we'd pick up another CB on day 1... we must have enough faith in our motley assortment of backups to pass on one entirely.

The sky isn't falling by any means, but it was an average draft at best. Let's hope these guys turn out to be exactly what our FO is hoping for.

[ypjim]

Since I've only been a Ravens fan for 2 day (read my thread on the welcome forum) I can be a little level headed and tell some of you that some of you are all hyped up on the purple coolaid with Troy Smith. He is what he is in a career back up. I'd be shocked if he is anything more.

I do wonder though how he feels about playing for the Ravens with him growing up a Browns fan and from what I hear his mom is a HUGE Browns fan. Funny how things work out that way. I'm sure he is just happy to be on a NFL team.

[Art-Florida]

"We better hope Terry can make the transition to RT or we sign a FA RT quick."

A truly unfortunate use of abbreviations there, Dave. :)


The draft: A firm C

Grubbs and Yanda - excellent.

Figurs is an unknown, but a big reach until proven otherwise.
The jury is out on the other guys, but look promising.
Troy Smith is a waste of time. He's ours now and has (or should have) our full support but as Han Solo once said, "I have a bad feeling about this."

Remember 'Too Tall' Jones? I can hear the announcers already, with the 'Too Small' Smith.

[festivus]

From the Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-ravensanal0429,0,7336782.story?track=mostviewedlink) website:
The Ravens once again picked the best players at their positions and came away with the draft's best guard (Ben Grubbs), returner (Yamon Figurs) and fullback (Le'Ron McClain).

I have no problem giving the Front Office an A. Sure, we have limited information now, but so does the Front Office. And no, we did not get any fancy skill position players in the top 2 rounds, and we did not get any of the 2d tier qb's. Instead we upgraded the offensive line, we brought in a replacement for Ovie Mughelli, we replaced our broken, drunk return man with a wideout who can also run past db's when called upon to do so. We added another pass rusher in Barnes, and another late round qb in Smith. Of all of our picks, that's the only one I would consider looking for a diamond in the rough, and I have no problem at all doing that once a draft class.

Hell with drinking the purple Kool Aid. I'm calling it as I see it.

[RavensInBrazil]

Well said, Festivus. I think the FO did as good a job as they could have done this off-season. I can't see how we could have done much better than this

I'm not concerned with the CB position...yet. Also, I think the OL will be fine. Terry can take care of the RT position until JO retires, in which case Yanda (or a premier RT in next year's draft) can take over at the position. Also, we're now very solid in the interior of the O-line

And finally, people seem to overlook how important special teams are to the game. Field position has never been one of our strenghts, and I think the FO did well in trying to strengthen that aspect of the game. Hopefully Barnes can become our new AD

[ypjim]

I guess purple Kool Aid taste sweet in April, let's just hope it doesn't taste sour come August. In saying that, I can't see us having to many problems with many teams this year.

[festivus]

I guess purple Kool Aid taste sweet in April, let's just hope it doesn't taste sour come August. In saying that, I can't see us having to many problems with many teams this year.

Would I have loved a top tier corner? Yes. Would I have been thrilled to get a plummeting Quinn? Yes. But neither fell to us. My grade was based on who was available when we did pick, and when we made a deal, what did we get out of the ensuing pick.

Hence an A.
And yes, everybody's Kool Aid tastes sweet on draft weekend, not that I'm drinking any. :toast:

[ypjim]

I'm not downing the Ravens draft. I give them a B because of the Smith pick. I feel there are better QBs that went undrafted. If it wasn't for that pick I would say "A".

[GreenWave52]

Let me start off by saying I think this was a very good draft. It wasn’t flashy, but effective, and I like most of the guys we picked. Also one oddity is that I would call this a “rivals” draft. The past two years we have picked pairs of guys from the same school. Now we picked a pair of rivals in Grubbs/Mclain (Auburn/Alabama) and Smith/Burgess (Ohio St/Michigan).

Rd 1- I loved Grubbs. Before the draft started I told everyone that I hoped Grubbs would be there when we picked. That was my top “realistic target” and I was thrilled when we got him. I was excited about choosing between Staley and Grubbs, but this may be one of those times when you are happy the decision got made for you. Staley is a project, very boom or bust. Grubbs is a 12 year starter/ pro bowler.

Rd 3- I can sum this pick up with one word: Shock. However, once I did some research on Yamon Figurs I became more and more sold. Watching the highlights of his game vs Texas opened my eyes a bit. I think he may have been a reach, but if he has as much impact as Devin Hester (who went in round 2) or Ted Ginn (who went round 1) then Figurs could be actually be a steal and not a reach.

Rd 3- I’m not sold on Marshal Yonda. This was actually my least favorite pick. He is a project that fills a need and he seems to have the tools to succeed on the NFL level. One problem, I hate Iowa lineman. They are so well coached by Kirk Ferentz that they are often have already gotten to their peak at college or they regress since their coaches at the pro level are worse. For an example see Robert Gallery. I put Ferentz lineman as the same category as Tedford QBs. I have a feeling that Weiss QBs may be added to that list.

Rd 4- I will never question any linebacker that Ozzie Newsome picks and Antwan Barnes looks like a classic Ravens late round ‘backer gem. This guy is AD part 2. A fast strong but light DE that would play better in the NFL as a versatile outside linebacker. He’ll be a great special teamer until he learns his new position.

Rd 4- Le’Ron Mclain is probably the best value pick on the day. Talented enough to be a second rounder, but because he is a fullback Mclain was available at the end of the fourth round. He’s a powerful, punishing blocker with soft hands that can work the flat in the passing game. He was the best pure fullback in the draft and a downright steal right here.

Rd 5- Troy Smith. During the college season I watched a lot of Notre Dame and Ohio state games. I predicted Smith would be a better pro player than Brady Quinn. I think this is even funnier now considering the teams they were drafted by, but I stand by it. Smith has great pocket presence and bounces in the pocket- something my friends and I call “the hop”. Most good QBs do this, only ones as talented as Manning and Favre can get away with questionable footwork. He also has a cannon arm and is incredibly accurate. On a side note Brady Quinn’s deficiencies in those three areas are why I think Smith will end up better. I didn’t want him first day, but where we got Smith is an excellent value for what could be a potential starter.

Rd 6- Prescott Burgess is someone I honestly know nothing about. He seems like a special teamer to me. Typically our 7th rounders struggle to beat out some of the undrafted UDFAs so he is by no means a lock to make the team.

Overall: This was a good draft. I think we made a pretty big impact with fewer picks. We have 3 guys who should make an immediate impact in Grubbs, Figurs, and Mclain. We also got some good developmental guys that could make a big future impact as well in Barnes, Smith, and Yonda.

I give this draft a B+.

[KingReed20]

We did exactly what we needed to do w/ this draft we strengthened our interior O-line and got depth at linebacker. The most important thing to remember is the FO said they wanted to make the O-line more athletic and w/ Chris Chester at Center, Grubbs at RG and Terry at RT we definitly accomplished that. We got a great lead blocking fullback which is exactly what our offense needed. We mite have the best return tandem in the afc now w/ Sams and Figures plus he will continue to develop as a deep threat the next couple yrs. Finally, we got a great value w/ Troy smith and he can learn for a couple yrs and the system w/o worrying about the pressure of starting. We also got Barnes who is going to be an immediate presence as a 3rd down pass rusher off the edge as an OLB in our 3-4. He is going to keep Jarret Johnson fresh and Form a serious pass rush w/ dan cody.

Overall we turned our O-line from a weakness to a strength and we have good depth on the O-line now

I think we had a good draft not flashy but exactly what we needed

Grade: B+ (potential for an A if figures develops into a deep threat as a 3rd or 4th receiver)

[ClericBlackDave]

Pete Prisco graded us pretty dead on in his grade on cbsportsline.com:

Baltimore Ravens
Best pick: It was their first one. Guard Ben Grubbs will be an opening-day starter.

Questionable move: Third-round pick Yamon Figurs can fly, but he's raw as a receiver. If this is for his return skill, taking him that high is a risk.

Second-day gem: Fullback Le'Ron McClain, the team's fourth-round pick, is a road grader as a blocker and should be a starter.

Overall grade: C

[UKRavenStockers]

Seriously, you're the ONLY person buying your own hype on this. If Smith were three inches taller he'd have been a lock top five pick. And till the Florida game, everyone had him somewhere in the first or second round with a LOT of discussion back and forth about which. But no one had him lower than the middle of the second. He was on Kipers top 25 prior to that Florida game.

I don't think anyone here was saying he was a lock star player in the NFL, and I don't know what you define as "great pro-prospect". But Smith dropped from anywhere between 15 and 45 to us at 174 because of the Florida game.

Feel free to prove us all wrong though and show us ONE respected scouting outlet that had Smith as a second day pick prior to 1/7/07. Good luck with that.

- C -

What do you consider a respected scouting outlet? Online 'draftniks'? And why do you consider these guys a good outlet for every players values. They get key guys wrong every year and Troy Smith is an example of this. Brandon Siler, Earl Everett, Ben Patrick. First two talked about as day one picks for most of the time on these sites, seen as shock sliders when Siler was always going to slide and came out too early.

Now Smith is a Raven I certainly hope he does pan out and that Neuheisel can fix his mechanics which need a lot of work on them, there's plenty of things he does wrong.

EDIT - If what I've put in bold were true then he'd have gone in round 2, it's not, so he didn't.

[sopranocorleone]

I would also add Willis McGahee to this draft evaluation.

[ClericBlackDave]

Adding McGahee does make this a better draft.


How ever, I wouldn't think that it should majorly change the grade for how we drafted.


We missed out on RT, may have reached for a WR/KR, and have a bunch of projects, includnig a QB that will not succeed on the next level and, if he doesn't, it'll be because of a huge overhaul in mechanix and decision making on the NFL level. If you think Troy Smith can do some of the awkward scrambling and always leaving the pocket he did in college on the NFL level, you're mistaken.


In the long term, I'm sure it'll be a fine draft. However, Ozzie isn't perfect. What was 2004? Who was Dwan Edwards? Etc.


And, for those longing to get rid of Boller, its likely that Troy Smith prolongs his stay rather than shortens it. He's a project who's physical talents still doesn't project well onto the NFL level of competition.


Boller is gone if we think McNair can start 2 more years. If he gets injured this year, or otherwise looks over the hill, I can imagine turning this team over to Troy Smith. It'll be Kyle Boller all over again, except this time he's black and 5' 11"

[Raveninwoodlawn]

There are 2 things that really annoyed me about this draft.

The first is obvioiusly the pick most obvious...the pick of Figurs in the third. I think it was a reach. This guy just sounds like Patrick Johnson II. I know he can fly, and has a good rep as a return man, but I seriously doubt he is on that Devin Hester/Ted Ginn level...He probably is more BJ Sams than anything. And that's not a bad thing, but not at that point. I think his potential as a WR is incredibly small...who cares how fast you are when you can't catch...the guy has small hands and from the vids I've seen, catches with his body and fights the ball a lot...big warning signs for WR's. I just think there was more value there with others and if you wanted a KR, why not get Johnnie Lee Higgins, who at least showed that he could catch the ball as well on the college level.

The second is the trade for Yanda. Now, I don't know what to think about Yanda the player...he sounds like a limited guy physically, but a guy who gets the job done...OK for a 3rd rounder. But to give away 4 picks to move up to get him? And the 2nd pick in the 4th...which I think is important as it gives you a night to think about who you are gonna pick first that second day...I just wouldn't have done it. There were so many quality guys left on the board for the second day, we could have absolutely loaded up on depth IMHO if we kept those picks. Yanda better be starting in 2 years and be a good player.

Otherwise, I like all the picks, I think they all filled needs and were good players. Also, I don't know why Kyle Boller is included in a thread about the grades for this year's draft. He is gone after this year...accept it and move on.

I'd give it a B-/C+.

[ExiledRaven]

I'm giving the team a solid A-/B+.

Grubbs wasn't what I expected, as generally I am not a fan of guards in the first round. But after looking at who was there after the team wisely did not give a 1st round pick next year for quinn and san fran gave up a 1st next year (I really hope it's a bad one ....NE annoys me) to get Staley, he's the best guy there. The pick is pretty solid and Grubbs is going to be on that line for 10+ years. Further, there are Faneca comparisons all over, and while the guy is a Steeler, he's one of the best guards in the past decade.

Trading down in the second: I've no problem with this. Some people have issues with Edwards and McCauley being passed up. Edwards fell for a reason, and he's got the injury bug. Funnier still, he didn't win a game before his injury. Brittle players don't fit the Raven mold.

Yamon Figurs was a player I really liked as a return prospect and potential #3/#4 WR. The kid can fly. People might question why you take a return prospect in the 3rd and go on and on about how he'd better be Hester. This just in, he's the best in this draft class and actually beat Hester in a high school track meet. Hester was also taken in the second. BJ Sams may never be the same after his injury...a second DUI will equal a hefty suspension from the Commish as well. Without Sams the field position game really suffered. Coming in, Figurs should be as good as Sams and might be able to get on the field in the offense...good pick. Most interesting note is that the Jags were going to take him with the very next pick after working out for their special teams coach Figurs had an arm taped to his chest and still didn't drop a single punt.

Yanda: criticize the trade up, but the fact of the matter is that there is no way all of these guys are going to make the team. The Front Office has said that repeatedly. Now everyone is demanding a superstar. Yanda is a solid G/T and all reports praise his work ethic and nasty streak. Some try to pin him as a guard, but many say that within a year or so he would be able to move outside with improved technique and about 15 pounds of weight. There you have a guy that can immediately back up tackle in a pinch and press the guards for playing time right away.

Antwan Barnes is one of those second day linebackers that the Ravens always seem to find a develop. Ed Hartwell, Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas. Even comparative failures, ie Rod Green, are still in the NFL. Barnes has been compared frequently to Robert Mathis. If that is even close to true and if Barnes can learn to play without a hand down in time, a Suggs-Barnes outside combination is very promising with Barnes having a bit less weight than Thomas, but substantially more speed and change of direction ability.

Le'Ron McClain is the best fullback of the draft and was available at the end of the fourth round. Many experts are noting that lorenzo neal's measurables were nearly exactly the same coming out of college. Watch some footage of this kid, linebackers are bouncing off of him and he's carrying 5 guys on his back and they can't bring him down until a 6th comes and hits him in the chest and knocks him over. Big time bowling ball blocker who is all about blowing people up. Can run in short yardage and catch as well. This is going to be a special Fullback.

Troy Smith: Eric DeCosta called troy smith a 3rd or 4th round selection. To get him at the bottom of the 5th is solid value. Smith may or may not pan out, but at this point in the draft why not take a flier on a kid who just wins, leads, and makes good decisions? Mechanics can be improved, oftentimes the mental aspect of the game cannot. Smith can manage the game, can get the ball out, and can make plays with his feet when called to do so. Ultimately it's up to Smith to see how far he can go, as there is the chance he can compete for the job when McNair hangs up the spikes. At least now there will be a reason to watch the tail end of preseason games. Smith is a phenominal leader, hopefully he can develop into something special for the Ravens.

Prescott Burgess: Not quite fast enough for him to be drafted earlier running in the 4.7s or low 4.8s in the forty at the combine killed his stock. Burgress then turns around and runs 4.55 on campus, but, the damage was done. The key here is that he made plays for the Michigan defense and performed well on special teams in the senior bowl. That's what Burgess is at the moment, special teams fodder. It's up to him to strive to improve and take a roster slot from the likes of Dennis Haley and Mike Smith. The high school teammate of Maurice Clarett has some work to do to make the team but he has the ability to make something of this chance.


There might have been favorites here and there and an utter lack of sexy picks, but this is the kind of draft that makes a team competitive for years. When a new QB comes in after McNair, he'll have a young, super talented offensive line to help him out and three WRs in Williams, Clayton, and Figurs to catch the ball. This is the type of situation needed for a young passer, the chance running for his life Kyle Boller never had...nor did David Carr. It's been an exciting off-season and it will be a pleasure to see these young men play on Sundays in the fall.

[Mista T]

Here are some outsiders' views:

CBS/Prisco: C
Yahoo: B
SI/Dr. Z: B-
Fox/Czarnecki: C-

ESPN Sports Nation Polls, currently:

B -- 38.8%
A -- 24.7%
C -- 18.8%
F -- 12.1% (fans looking for sex appeal?)
D -- 5.4%

total votes -- 8,953
http://espn.go.com/poll/images/poll44607_0.gif

[ExiledRaven]

Once I get these two weeks of hell over with, I think I'm going to do a 5 year draft analysis. That's about the only time you can figure out if the draft was actually good. I'll include UDFAs.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

Browns draft looks good now but what happens if that pick they gave Dallas is another top 5 pick next year? I can't imagine Browns fans being happy with that. That 'steal' they got in Quinn actually ends up being a top 5 pick, not so much a steal anymore.

[ExiledRaven]

exactly, especially if Dallas can then make a play for McFadden, which would only be natural with a top 5 selection and another 1st....

Jones is the kind of guy that would do it.

[KingReed20]

We had a really solid draft our O-line went from a weakness to a strength and now we are going to be killer on special teams w/ figures and sams consistently giving us a short field. We definitly accomplished what we needed to get done this weekend

[UKRavenStockers]

exactly, especially if Dallas can then make a play for McFadden, which would only be natural with a top 5 selection and another 1st....

Jones is the kind of guy that would do it.

Plus Jerry Jones is one of Arkansas' biggest boosters, this acquisition was definitely in mind to go and get McFadden next year.

[ExiledRaven]

I didn't know that. If that's true, then I definitely think Jones is selling the farm to get McFadden.

[Gwaihir]

I loved the draft and give it an A-!

We got the best Interior Lineman, best Return Man, and best Fullback! I'm sure they have Marshal Yanda penciled in at Right Tackle in a pinch and definitely after Ogden retires when he adds a little weight and strength. The two Linebackers, Barnes & Burgess are proto-typical Raven LB's and I expect both to stick and become Studs in the future, along with being solid Special Teamers right now! Even though I wasn't that high on Troy Smith, I can't argue with getting him at the end of the fifth and was actually I little excited when I saw his name.

I didn't mind all the picks we gave up for Yanda since we don't have that many openings on the Team, anyway! We still got 7 picks in six rounds! Not too bad.

I kinda wanted Chris Houston with the first pick, but if Ozzie says he's happy with our stable of CB's, I'll take his word for it! Besides, we can always snag a CB next year as it seems there are always quality Corners in the First Round. I really can't argue with Grubbs, he sounds like a total Stud, and should solidify our Interior Line for years to come!

And of course if you want to factor in :

3rd & 7th = Willis McGahee
4th = Steve McNair

Then I would give it an A+!!

[highwater]

Here are some outsiders' views:

CBS/Prisco: C
Yahoo: B
SI/Dr. Z: B-
Fox/Czarnecki: C-


I read what the guy from Fox.com wrote, and it was very lame. He said Grubbs was a good pick because we "lost Edwin Mulitalo." Actually, as I recall, the Ravens released him, so it wasn't like we "lost" him. He also claims that we didn't have the ammunition that Cleveland had to trade for Quinn, but according to ESPN, Ozzie simply didn't want to give up next year's first round pick, which is what Savage did. He also mentions that Troy Smith was our last pick -- no, he wasn't! All of these guys are entitled to their premature opinions about the quality of the draft, but this dope can't even get his facts straight.

We'll obviously have to wait to see how these picks work out, but I'm very satisfied with this draft. The OL needed to be addressed, and it was. I agree with Raveninwoodlawn about the Figurs pick, which sounds like a reach to me too, but we'll see. Overall, I think it was a pretty solid draft.

[festivus]

I read what the guy from Fox.com wrote, and it was very lame. He said Grubbs was a good pick because we "lost Edwin Mulitalo." Actually, as I recall, the Ravens released him, so it wasn't like we "lost" him. He also claims that we didn't have the ammunition that Cleveland had to trade for Quinn, but according to ESPN, Ozzie simply didn't want to give up next year's first round pick, which is what Savage did. He also mentions that Troy Smith was our last pick -- no, he wasn't! All of these guys are entitled to their premature opinions about the quality of the draft, but this dope can't even get his facts straight.

We'll obviously have to wait to see how these picks work out, but I'm very satisfied with this draft. The OL needed to be addressed, and it was. I agree with Raveninwoodlawn about the Figurs pick, which sounds like a reach to me too, but we'll see. Overall, I think it was a pretty solid draft.

Good points, all. While I appreciate the work of these 'experts' leading up to the draft, providing research and talking points beyond what we fans can do. . . Grading drafts is their judgment of the performance of the FO's around the league, which I can do with their information as well as they can.

As I recall we did not light up the scoreboard with last year's grades at the time, but now that we've seen the '06 free agent class in action, the FO is obviously vindicated.

:2c:

[GreenWave52]

Good points, all. While I appreciate the work of these 'experts' leading up to the draft, providing research and talking points beyond what we fans can do. . . Grading drafts is their judgment of the performance of the FO's around the league, which I can do with their information as well as they can.

As I recall we did not light up the scoreboard with last year's grades at the time, but now that we've seen the '06 free agent class in action, the FO is obviously vindicated.

:2c:

I don't know about that. I feel like we got a lot of A minuses from the talking heads last year. The lack of sizzle in this draft combined with the fact that our 2 3rd rounders were not hyped at all hurts our grade. I think this was a solid B draft and one that could pay huge future dividends.

According to Rick Gosselin, Figurs was the 66th best player so he may not be the reach we think he is. Gosselin also had Yanda at 93.

[psuasskicker]

What do you consider a respected scouting outlet? Online 'draftniks'? And why do you consider these guys a good outlet for every players values. They get key guys wrong every year and Troy Smith is an example of this. Brandon Siler, Earl Everett, Ben Patrick. First two talked about as day one picks for most of the time on these sites, seen as shock sliders when Siler was always going to slide and came out too early.

Now Smith is a Raven I certainly hope he does pan out and that Neuheisel can fix his mechanics which need a lot of work on them, there's plenty of things he does wrong.

EDIT - If what I've put in bold were true then he'd have gone in round 2, it's not, so he didn't.

I consider Kiper as fairly well respected in the industry, and Kiper had him on his big 25 board prior to the Florida game.

You have yet to:
A) Prove me wrong by showing me anyone in the industry that said Smith was a day two prospect before the Florida game.
B) Apologize for calling me and at least one other person an idiot after not being able to prove us wrong.

Just sayin'...

- C -

[ravenwoman]

I noticed on ESPN how everyone said the Browns had the best draft. Well, how hard can that be when you are picking 3rd in almost every round? There is a big difference between picking in the top 5 or the bottom 5. The difference is more glaring when you are picking 35th and the other team at 61. Trades notwithstanding, every team that picks in the top 5 should have a great draft.

The rounds that separate the men from the boys are the third through the sixth round. That's when you see which teams really did their homework in evaluating players. This is where the Ravens really shine above other teams.

Furthermore, lets see how the players play. Then I will grade the draft. I am still excited, because I like to see how many players in the later rounds make the team.

[UKRavenStockers]

I consider Kiper as fairly well respected in the industry, and Kiper had him on his big 25 board prior to the Florida game.

You have yet to:
A) Prove me wrong by showing me anyone in the industry that said Smith was a day two prospect before the Florida game.
B) Apologize for calling me and at least one other person an idiot after not being able to prove us wrong.

Just sayin'...

- C -

I implied that what you perceive as the 'industry' does not give a good representation of players values and I certainly don't consider Kiper as a good measure of every players' value. Kiper has his niche and his niche is that he knows something about pretty much every draft prospect on both days of the draft and the UDFAs. His value boards and his mocks are not his strong suit.

I don't know whether anyone in the industry had him as a day two prospect before the Florida game, people kinda tend to update their boards and so you lose their previous work. But I'm sorry it is just a fact that round one was at no point ever a true representation of Troy Smith's actual draft value. Teams set the value of players not the online draftniks, online draftniks have shock fallers, those who actually talk to scouts know who the fallers are likely to be and don't have 'shock fallers'. Smith was not a shock at all and was never a round one prospect and borderline day one before the Florida game. He was higher because he won the Heisman Trophy and had a shot at leading his team to a National Title, not because he was a great pro prospect, he never was.

As for calling you an idiot, it may have come off as backhandedly calling some people here idiots but I was actually referring to the vast swathes of online draftniks who think that having their own sites means they have a clue about what's going on, I apologise if people took it as me calling them idiots. I don't have a great clue of what's going on myself but I have friends who work with current and former NFL scouts so have at least some grasp of the glaring errors of some of these draftniks, Troy Smith was an example of these guys getting something horribly wrong right from the start.

[ClericBlackDave]

No-one here is saying the Ravens had a bad draft.

No-one is saying that it might not shape up to be effective.



But the people giving it an "A" at this point are giving it an "A" based on Ozzie Newsome and this team's track record drafting rather than looking at the actual players.


Looking at the actual players, Grubbs is a sure thing to start at RG, we hope. Past that, there is an outside chance that a lot of these guys don't even make the team.


Its also tough to get excited about Grubbs when you have a gaping hole at RT with no depth at tackle but now we have about a billion guards between Brown, Vincent, Chester, Flynn, Grubbs, Yanda, Rimpf, etc. Better hope Yanda can play RT, but on the whole that seems like a project


You don't get an "A" for drafting projects until those projects pan out.


Minus grubbs, this reminds me of the 2004 draft, a draft that I wasn't initially pissed about and would have given a "b" but ended up a "C" at best.


This is a "B" that might end up an "A". But it was hardly a slam dunk, regardless of the draft position. 2nd round Colts took Tony Ugoh at tackle in the 2nd; he might not start for a minute, but a move at tackle is what I wanted for the Ravens.


Who starts if Ogden or Terry goes down?


Should have resigned Pashos somehow.

[festivus]

But the people giving it an "A" at this point are giving it an "A" based on Ozzie Newsome and this team's track record drafting rather than looking at the actual players.
I *am*!?


Looking at the actual players, Grubbs is a sure thing to start at RG, we hope. Past that, there is an outside chance that a lot of these guys don't even make the team.
No. It is much more likely this draft deserves an A than that "a lot of these guys don't even make the team." The one who stands out as most risky, of *all* the picks, is Troy Smith.


You don't get an "A" for drafting projects until those projects pan out.
Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap. Everything I read about Yanda makes him look like a good bet. Day 1 starter? Barring injury, no. Multi-year starter? Yes. I think it's much more likely Yanda will be a starter then that Smith will be a starter, but Smith was the last pick of the 5th round, so it's ok with me.

[sailorsam]

GreenWave has a good point; losing AD hurts on special teams as well as D, and Barnes & Burgess could at least be gunners for a while.
the point on many might not make the team is well taken; shows how deep the Ravens are, which is a good thing. that's why they can draft an OG in round 1 and a KR/WR in round 3; they can upgrade based on available talent instead of desperately trying to fill holes. the Brownies getting their tackle and qb is sweet, but no 1st rounder next year will cost them.
impossible to grade a draft for 4-5 years, but this one looks pretty good to me.

"Ka-Boom?"
"Yes, Rico, Ka-Boom."

[Fanman]

I give this draft a "B" on paper right now.

I see Grubbs as a starter from week 1. I think the steals might be Figurs and McClain. I esp like McClain b/c of his size and he is said to have good hands too.

Think of what this could do in the redzone...esp the 10 yrd line in. We line up in an I-formation and the defense has to consider the FB being a pass option...it adds a whole new dimension to the offense. Plus his size should make him able to take on LBs w/ no problem.

As for Smith, if he is a true Heisman talent then he will be FAR ahead of where Boller was during the camps and have a quicker progression. If not, they took a flier and lost nothing.

FM

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Dude, Stop saying we have a gaping hole at RT.

We do not...Terry probably won't be all-pro over there, but I am very confident he can be sufficient.

We have problem with depth...but I am sure that is what Yanda is for.

And I don't see the comparison with the 2004 draft...we have gotten nothing...NOTHING from that draft. Do any of the 3 guys left even play special teams?

In this draft we likely got 2 starters, a swing man on the OL, a KR/PR and 2 athletic defenders for special teams at first at the very least.

I may have a problem with how they went about getting those guys, but I can't say that they didn't fit needs and weren't good players.

[highwater]

Dude, Stop saying we have a gaping hole at RT. We do not...Terry probably won't be all-pro over there, but I am very confident he can be sufficient.

I agree -- I don't know why so many of us are writing off Terry. Yes, I know he's more comfortable at LT than at RT, but we traded up to get him, so Ozzie obviously saw something he liked. He'll be okay.

I'm excited that we have someone who will likely take Vincent's place at RG.

[GreenWave52]

I agree -- I don't know why so many of us are writing off Terry. Yes, I know he's more comfortable at LT than at RT, but we traded up to get him, so Ozzie obviously saw something he liked. He'll be okay.

I'm excited that we have someone who will likely take Vincent's place at RG.

Plus I wasn't totally sold on a workout warrior like Joe Staley. I prefer my draftees to go up and succeed against big time competition. We got as much a sure thing as you can draft in Grubbs.

A tackle didn't fall to us and there wasn't one in the 2nd round that Ozzie thought was worth trading up for. It happens. Am I concerned about our depth there? Yes. But most teams have depth issues at 1 position or another.

We still might be able to sign someone that is an ok back-up.

[UKRavenStockers]

I give this draft a "B" on paper right now.

I see Grubbs as a starter from week 1. I think the steals might be Figurs and McClain. I esp like McClain b/c of his size and he is said to have good hands too.

Think of what this could do in the redzone...esp the 10 yrd line in. We line up in an I-formation and the defense has to consider the FB being a pass option...it adds a whole new dimension to the offense. Plus his size should make him able to take on LBs w/ no problem.

As for Smith, if he is a true Heisman talent then he will be FAR ahead of where Boller was during the camps and have a quicker progression. If not, they took a flier and lost nothing.

FM

Eric Crouch won a Heisman Trophy, was he a great pro prospect? Archie Griffin won two Heismans, was he a great pro prospect? Heisman Trophy means nothing.

[Fanman]

UK...you are right in saying that a Heisman winner does not always translate into a good NFL player. I am saying that Smith did deserve the Heisman last year, based on the criteria, and I think he has talent and prolly more natural ability compared to Boller at the same time in their careers. Based on that, I think Smith should progress better and quicker than Boller.

FM

[ClericBlackDave]

Dude, Stop saying we have a gaping hole at RT.

We do not...Terry probably won't be all-pro over there, but I am very confident he can be sufficient.

No-one is writing Terry off.

But who is our backup to Terry and Ogden? And that is assumign that Terry will even be able to make the shift effectively to RT? We have no depth there and a gaping hole no matter how you see it. Keep drinking the purple kool-aide but until terry shows he can switch over to RT effectively I'm not sold, and even if he does, we know that he or ogden can go down and we have zero depth whatsover.

The frustrating thing is we now have an over abundance of depth in the interior. Good to know Vincent and Flynn will hopefully be phased out longterm, but I would have rather seen Staley instead of Grubbs considering that we have plenty of G's and only 2 tackles, one of which hasn't proven he will be a good RT.



Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap


ROFL. Todd Heap was far from a project. Just like Grubbs is far from a project. Its about every round after that that I'm concerned about.


By all means, lets give this draft an "A" before any of it pans out. But other than Grubbs, there wasn't another pick that strikes me as a homerun. Our new FB from bama is probably the most likely to pan out IMHO but the others, the jury is out


It could be a draft like 02 or it could easily be a draft like 04


Which is why I give it a "B"

[Raveninwoodlawn]

LOL...lacking depth is no way the same as a "Gaping Hole".

A "Gaping Hole" is what we had at WR until 2005.

Terry was a 2nd round OT with a lot of athleticism...while I was worried about him last year, he proved to be at least OK at LT while Ogden was out last year. I think if you are seriously worried about him not being at least an average RT despite doing OK at LT, then you are just looking for reasons to worry...are you saying that we either had to draft a player that played RT during his college career (which I beleive Yanda did) or sign a player that has played RT? In that case, why draft Staley, who is basically a carbon copy of Terry except Staley is smaller? Staley is a light, pass blocking first LT in college...Terry was a pass blocking first LT in college who has at least had some reps over on the right side.

I completely agree about depth...although I seriously disagree (So would Decosta and the rest of the Ravens personel department) that we have no other OT's on the roster. That is exactly what Yanda was drafted for. Yes we have no proven depth which is always a worry, but it is not no mans land like you are making it out to be.

[festivus]

ROFL. Todd Heap was far from a project. Just like Grubbs is far from a project.

Wrong.

Heap and Yanda, and Smith and Chester for that matter, are or were all *projects* at their chosen positions. Raw talent, not NFL ready. Grubbs is not a project. He is a day one starter. Figurs, at least as a return man, is not (supposed to be) a project. He can return kicks week 1.

Now that you know what I meant by 'project', read this part of my post again and perhaps it will make more sense:

> Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap.
> Everything I read about Yanda makes him look like a good bet. Day 1
> starter? Barring injury, no. Multi-year starter? Yes.

There you go. I gave credit for value picks, even if the chosen player wasn't NFL ready, I assessed whether that spot in the draft was a good spot to roll the dice on that particular player.

Buck up, man! This is the part of the year when everyone should feel good! :)

[psuasskicker]

I implied that what you perceive as the 'industry' does not give a good representation of players values and I certainly don't consider Kiper as a good measure of every players' value. Kiper has his niche and his niche is that he knows something about pretty much every draft prospect on both days of the draft and the UDFAs. His value boards and his mocks are not his strong suit.

I don't know whether anyone in the industry had him as a day two prospect before the Florida game, people kinda tend to update their boards and so you lose their previous work. But I'm sorry it is just a fact that round one was at no point ever a true representation of Troy Smith's actual draft value. Teams set the value of players not the online draftniks, online draftniks have shock fallers, those who actually talk to scouts know who the fallers are likely to be and don't have 'shock fallers'. Smith was not a shock at all and was never a round one prospect and borderline day one before the Florida game. He was higher because he won the Heisman Trophy and had a shot at leading his team to a National Title, not because he was a great pro prospect, he never was.

As for calling you an idiot, it may have come off as backhandedly calling some people here idiots but I was actually referring to the vast swathes of online draftniks who think that having their own sites means they have a clue about what's going on, I apologise if people took it as me calling them idiots. I don't have a great clue of what's going on myself but I have friends who work with current and former NFL scouts so have at least some grasp of the glaring errors of some of these draftniks, Troy Smith was an example of these guys getting something horribly wrong right from the start.

Appreciate the apology.

FWIW, I think you're misrepresenting "facts" here in these statements...
"I don't know whether anyone in the industry had him as a day two prospect before the Florida game"
"But I'm sorry it is just a fact that round one was at no point ever a true representation of Troy Smith's actual draft value."

You can only say this as "fact" if you either:
a) accept those considered draft "experts" in the media - the Mel Kipers and Mike Mayocks and Don Banks of the media - as guys that can judge these things accurately AND show that none of them felt he was a first round prospect, or
b) don't accept that, but can show that the scouting departments of 32 teams considered him not a first round prospect prior to the Florida game.
I would guess you can't do that unless you know something I don't. Certainly you can't prove the first one since it's not true. Most media guys I was reading and listening to were saying Smith was a late first or early second round prospect.

FWIW, I do accept these guys' judgements of players because despite what some of their shortfalls may be, they're largely at least in the ballpark.

The other thing worth noting is that no one here - or at least I - was saying that Smith was a lock first round prospect. I was saying Smith was easily regarded as first day prospect somewhere between end of first round and into the second. He plummetted down everyone's boards after the FLA game where everyone then had him thrown around between the 2nd and 4th. Then after the Sr Bowl and combine he was somewhere into day two on most boards.

- C -

[ClericBlackDave]

Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap.

That is what you said orriginally. Which is laughable to compare Heap to later round picks.

Then you said:


Heap and Yanda, and Smith and Chester for that matter, are or were all *projects* at their chosen positions. Raw talent, not NFL ready

Ok yeah, Heap wasn't NFL ready. Suuuuure.

Am I the only one seeing this? I feel like I'm taking crazy Pills. Todd Heap was NFL ready, we just had shannon sharpe. Grubbs should be NFL ready according to the team, and national scouts.

The rest of the guys like figurs? These guys will be projects, guys who need to learn the position.

Nothing wrong with being a project. . .

Bart Scott was a project, he learned the position, and now is a pro bowler.



But please, lets not give this draft an "A" until these project guys, essentially everyone besides Grubbs, pan out.


And please don't compare Heap, a probowler and playmaker drafted in the 1st round, to some 2nd day projects. Pul-lease.

[festivus]

CBD, spare the sarcasm. It doesn't help. Non-NFL ready projects can be drafted anywhere in the draft. Bubba Franks, TE Miami, was drafted *ahead* of Heap in the 1st round, by Green Bay. Why? Analysts at the time said he was more polished. I'm not saying Heap *couldn't* have played his first year, of course he could have.

You keep using the word 'project' your way, and telling me I'm using it wrong.

Are you taking crazy pills? I don't know. I wish you would take some listening pills instead.

[ClericBlackDave]

Actually Heap did play his 1st year out of a lot of 2 TE sets, and was produtcive until his ankle injury.


Polish wasn't a problem, and no-one ever said he was a project. Show me an article where they said he was a project.


Produce that, and you have my respect. But being that it doesn't exist, its laughable to me. No-one said he was a reach or a project being drafted later in the 1st round.


Late in the 1st round v. a 2nd Day pick? really, please stop trying to make them the same.


Heap was not a project. Grubbs shouldn't be either . . . almost all players drafted in the 1st round will be playing for their team in some capacity, and most likely starting. Because they aren't projects.


our draft this year besides Grubbs? Projects.


Draft is a "B" at best until proven otherwise.

[festivus]

I don't care if you respect me and I don't care if you deliberately misunderstand me.
I give up. :brickwall:

[ClericBlackDave]

Explain to me how Todd Heap was a "project"

Or just get any one other person to agree with you that Todd Heap was a project.

Then I'll understand. Until then, you are making / made a terrible comparison.

Compare Heap to Grubbs at most, not to the lower round 2nd days picks.

Or if you were searching for a comparison, Adalius and Bart Scott are good examples; Heap is not.

[festivus]

Explain to me how Todd Heap was a "project"

Or just get any one other person to agree with you that Todd Heap was a project.

Then I'll understand. Until then, you are making / made a terrible comparison.

Compare Heap to Grubbs at most, not to the lower round 2nd days picks.

Or if you were searching for a comparison, Adalius and Bart Scott are good examples; Heap is not.

Here again is my original quote.
> Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap.
> Everything I read about Yanda makes him look like a good bet. Day 1
> starter? Barring injury, no. Multi-year starter? Yes.

Todd Heap was merely an illustration, so your fixation on my use of his name is ill-placed. My point was that some players-who-are-not-yet-near-their-NFL-potential, I will call them "projects," can contribute to the grade of the team, based on how good a risk you think the pick is.

[GreenWave52]

Dave, I think in some ways you are being a little harsh on this draft. There are some projects in there but it isn't totally like 2004. And not just with this draft, but with every draft you have to wait until they pan out or bust to truly give it a grade.

As far as the project label this is how I break them down:

1. Grubbs- NFL Ready
3. Figurs- as a PR/KR: NFL Ready (but as a WR: Project)
3. Yanda- Project
4. Barnes- Project
4. Mclain- NFL Ready
5. Smith- Project
6. Burgess- Project

So in all you have 2 players I expect to start on offense and a third who should be an elite return man. That is immediate production from 43% of the class and not nearly as useless as that god awful '04 haul (thanks Phil!).

[Gwaihir]

But please, lets not give this draft an "A" until these project guys, essentially everyone besides Grubbs, pan out.

Draft is a "B" at best until proven otherwise.



This is totally ridiculous ! That's the whole idea of grading the draft now. To give your opinion on whether or not you think these picks WILL pan out or not! By giving this draft a "B" you are saying that 3-4 of our picks won't pan out and be in the League 3-4 years from now. Personally, barring injury, I think all of our picks have a solid chance of staying in the NFL, that's why I gave it an A-. The only pick I have any doubts about is Troy Smith, who at the end of the fifth round I consider a steal!

If you don't want to rate it now, based on your intuition, then don't post here. Wait 3-4 years and then tell us what you think of the 2007 draft!

[ClericBlackDave]

My point was that some players-who-are-not-yet-near-their-NFL-potential, I will call them "projects," can contribute to the grade of the team, based on how good a risk you think the pick is.

I'm glad you've redefined the word "project" to fit your needs. But I dont think anyone else would call Todd Heap a project because he wasn't up to full potential. He was a pro-bowler once sharpe left. Real project there.


If you wanted to make a good comparison, you should have reference Adalius or Bart Scott or someone. And then, that would prove my point. For all the Adalius' out there there are plenty of players who don't make it. YOu don't assume you're getting an adalius in a late round pick



As far as the project label this is how I break them down:

1. Grubbs- NFL Ready
3. Figurs- as a PR/KR: NFL Ready (but as a WR: Project)
3. Yanda- Project
4. Barnes- Project
4. Mclain- NFL Ready
5. Smith- Project
6. Burgess- Project


I dont know about McClain being NFL ready, i want to see him play NFL level talent at linebacker and butt heads with them.

Figurs as an KR . . . saying he's NFL ready is also a jump. Maybe he is, but we drafted a KR two years ago who we thought would be the same . . . and BJ sams beat him out

Taking a hit on an NFL KR is a lot different than college. Its easier when you have blazing speed and you're killing college players with straight up speed.



Not saying it was a bad draft. But an "A" is silly. "A" means slam dunk. This was far from a slam dunk. It was a "B" at best. Solid.


Could be a "c" if some people tank, an "A" if some lower guys pan out.

[festivus]

> I'm glad you've redefined the word "project" to fit your needs.
I have used it the same way in this entire thread, since I defined it for you in the first post on the point. I am glad you finally slowed down the sarcasm enough to read. And if you read other people's posts carefully - such as Greenwave52's, which you thoughtfully quote - they also use the term "project" to relate to the quality of NFL-readiness. You are still hung up on my use of Heap's name, perhaps?

Anyway, I'm relieved I finally penetrated the sarcasm, though I wish I could also have turned it off. It comes across as kind of rude, in the same way Tex Ritter's mocking use of smilies comes across as rude. There's good company for you. :thumbup:

[GreenWave52]

For the record I thought this was a "B" draft as well. Eric DeCosta summed it up well in the press conference by saying they hit a lot of doubles and singles.

[ClericBlackDave]

they also use the term "project" to relate to the quality of NFL-readiness. You are still hung up on my use of Heap's name, perhaps?

Please don't compare me with Tex Ritter because I dont agree with your characterization of saying Heap was a project.

Get someone to agree with that besides yourself. When Greenwave or someone else says Heap was a project . . . i'll eat my hat


For the record I thought this was a "B" draft as well. Eric DeCosta summed it up well in the press conference by saying they hit a lot of doubles and singles.

Greenwave, Obviously, I agree and its the effects of the kool-aide when fans would class it an "A" when people in the process and the ravens organization would realize that it was a "B" but that it was good considering we were drafting late in the round.

[ExiledRaven]

Please don't compare me with Tex Ritter because I dont agree with your characterization of saying Heap was a project.

Get someone to agree with that besides yourself. When Greenwave or someone else says Heap was a project . . . i'll eat my hat

Greenwave, Obviously, I agree and its the effects of the kool-aide when fans would class it an "A" when people in the process and the ravens organization would realize that it was a "B" but that it was good considering we were drafting late in the round.

Every single guy in the draft is a project in some sense of the word and will need to work to play and/or actually be a decent NFL player. For example, JO was a guard for a year and he's a hall of fame Left Tackle. Besides, is this really a huge issue to debate? There are also some first round "projects" that worked out very well, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Mark Clayton (thus far) and some that were far from spectacular, Travis Taylor, Kyle Boller, Duane Starks post 2000, Dwan Edwards...you get the idea. Every rookie is a project to at least some extent of the word, some need more work than others.

As to where we were drafting playing a role in "grading", that just goes back to how silly this is. You can only truly evaluate a draft 3-5 years after the draft. All of the grades right now are sex-appeal. Who got more hyped players, who got the trendy skill players that will look good in Madden? It really means nothing right now. Russell, Thomas, Peterson, Johnson, Quinn...any one or all of them might be completely worthless. History says more than a couple.

As for actually trying grade now, all of the prospective new Ravens look very interesting rare or well done. I'd say A- based on what was available and the ways these players will improve the team. BJ Sams' issues aren't a massive concern, one of the weakest offensive line links (Vincent) is gone, we have some depth at Tackle in case of an injury in Yanda, Barnes and Burgess should be good special teamers as Barnes especially has a chance to be a star depending on if he follows the Rod Green or the Thomas/Hartwell tree. Smith is probably the most interesting late round QB prospect Baltimore has had in years....all of us fans get excited about the random second day QB, but this guy is more interesting than Alexander, Josh Harris, Drew Olson et al.

If you want to define "project" as "needs to learn a new position or requires substantial improvement before they can get on the field for the drafting team" ~ sure, Heap doesn't really fit in that category ....but Terrell Suggs certain did fit this bill. Suggs is obviously a better bet than a 4th rounder. Did you give the Ravens an A in for drafting Suggs and trading up to get Boller? (two "projects")

Festivus views "project" as "a drafted rookie or player that needs minor work" ~ Heap fits that bill, as did JO, Ray, Ed Reed, Cmac.

There is the gray area in between ~ Travis Taylor needing to learn the professional differences at WR

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I dont know about McClain being NFL ready, i want to see him play NFL level talent at linebacker and butt heads with them.

Figurs as an KR . . . saying he's NFL ready is also a jump. Maybe he is, but we drafted a KR two years ago who we thought would be the same . . . and BJ sams beat him out

Taking a hit on an NFL KR is a lot different than college. Its easier when you have blazing speed and you're killing college players with straight up speed.


While I agree that I don't think this was an A draft, some of the statements you make are very contradictory.

You don't want to think Adam Terry can play RT until he starts there for a while...hence the "Gaping Hole" at RT, but you pimped Staley...implying that Staley would have been somewhat of a solution...even though Staley is smaller and has never played RT, and in fact, only played LT for 2 years.

Then Grubbs is ready to start...I guess based on his ability and competition.

But McClain isn't ready to start even though he was virtually unaminously the top FB and played in the same conference as Grubbs?

[psuasskicker]

As far as the project label this is how I break them down:

1. Grubbs- NFL Ready
3. Figurs- as a PR/KR: NFL Ready (but as a WR: Project)
3. Yanda- Project
4. Barnes- Project
4. Mclain- NFL Ready
5. Smith- Project
6. Burgess- Project

You and everyone else here are forgetting two.
3. McGahee
4. McNair
This draft brought those guys and they have to be considered, cause if it didn't, we had three more picks to look at.

FWIW, Heap was ready as a pass catching TE right away, but the guy couldn't block my mom, coming out of school.

My grade of this draft, including McNair and McGahee which you can't not consider them, would be an A.

- C -

[jonboy79]

FWIW, I would define project as a NFL prospect that has an overwhelming flaw that will take more then one offseason to turn this player into an everydown player.
Recent examples would be Pahos' footwork, Terry's strength, Bart Scott moving to LB, things to that nature. Coincidentally, I feel that Chris Chester was in fact a project, despite the fact that he was thrust into action as an everydown player with a single offseason. I feel that he will be much better suited as an everydown player after an additional offseason. He looked light in the @$$ and could use to improve on his technique, as will come with experience, and time in the weight room.
Clayton was absolutely not a project. He was the most polished and NFL ready WR in his draft class. Heap is a little borderline in the fact that he couldn't, and well, really still can't block his way out of a wet paper bag.

As for this years picks.
Grubbs is a plug in, experienced player, fighting in the toughest trench battles in the entire NCAA. He is as NFL ready as ANYONE in the entire draft.
Figurs is nearly the definition of the word, and Yanda I believe fits it well, needing to add some weight and strength to succeed as a RT in the NFL. Barnes is far to small to play his natural position so will likely be little more then a plug in pash rusher this year, btu McClain is also NFL ready. He will have to LEARN his blocking schemes, pass protections and routes, but he does not have seruious holes in his game. Smith has MULTIPLE years ahead of him and Burgess, well, he seems to be a fairly well schooled player with fringe NFL atheticism. He is a project mostly in that he really needs to make an impact on ST's to even have a chance to climb a depth chart.

[psuasskicker]

Heap ... really still can't block his way out of a wet paper bag.

This isn't even close to true. Heap's one of the better blocking TEs in the NFL. Most of the pure pass catchers can't block to save their lives, and vice versa. Heap is very good at both.

Pass catching is of course his forte. He's better at that than at blocking. But he's a very good blocking TE.

- C -`

[KingReed20]

The frustrating thing is we now have an over abundance of depth in the interior. Good to know Vincent and Flynn will hopefully be phased out longterm, but I would have rather seen Staley instead of Grubbs considering that we have plenty of G's and only 2 tackles, one of which hasn't proven he will be a good RT.

Grubbs gives us one of the most athletic interior O-lines in the league w/ Chester and Brown. Why would you want Staley when he wouldnt even have played this yr barring an injury. He was not going to start over Adam Terry at RT and since why are u so worried about Terry transitioning to RT. He learned for 2 yrs and now is ready to step in and start and will play at a high level. He did well when he came in for Ogden at the end of the season last yr and w/ a whole offseason of preparing to be a starter at RT i think our line is going to be very very good as the season goes on

[jonboy79]

This isn't even close to true. Heap's one of the better blocking TEs in the NFL. Most of the pure pass catchers can't block to save their lives, and vice versa. Heap is very good at both.

Pass catching is of course his forte. He's better at that than at blocking. But he's a very good blocking TE.

- C -`

Yeah it really is. He's stil a HORRID blocker. He was WR bad, he's not there any more, but there is NO WAY he is any where near being a Very Good blcokign TE. Vergy Good blocking TE's are players liek Kyle Brady, Daniel Graham, etc. For an elite pass catching TE, he'd be lucky to be an avereage blocker. He'c certainly far from the best blocking TE on the team. It's not an indictment on Heap, he is still among the best TE's in the league, but his hole is, has always been, and will always be his blocking.