Sophomore Slump" for Flacco?? Not likely.

[52decleetzu]

It seems that all of the idiots/pundits who predict the Ravens to "take a step back" this year cite a "sophmore slump"form Flacco as one of their main reasons.

I guess they fail to realize the improvement Flacco made as the season progressed, and also the fact that in the NFL at the QB position the "sophomore slump" is a figment of many's imagination. Matter of fact,most good QBs significantly improve from their first full season to the next, or at worst have the same or slightly lower numbers than the first year.

Also the fact that Flacco didnt exactly light it up and only put up only about 2,900 yds passing lends more to the argument that if anything his numbers and performance will be better this year and not worse.

Lets take a look at some of the top QB's in the game today and see what happened in year 2....

Peyton Manning - All stats jumped significantly.

Tom Brady - Comp % and rating about the same,huge jumps in Yards and TD-INT ratio

Drew Brees - Only played in 12 games 2nd year,rating was 6 points lower.

Phillip Rivers - All stats dropped off slightly.Rating down by 10 points

Jen Roethlisberger - Only played in 12 games 2nd year. Rating exactly the same.

Jay Cutler - Most stats about the same but 1000 yd jump in yards.

Donavan McNabb - All stats jumped significantly.(only 12 games 1st year)

Carson Palmer - All stats jumped significantly. (only 13 games 1st year)

Eli Manning - Only 9 games rookie year,but rating and comp % both jumped 2nd year.

Matt Hassleback - All stats up significantly (only played in 13 games 1st year)

Brett Farve - Slight dropoff in all stats.


In almost every case their performance went up, in some cases like Manning and Cutler by a LOT. In the other cases where the performance was the same or slightly lower their first year stats were fantastic and alittle above the norm.For example Farve had a 64% comp rate his first year but dropped off to about 61 his second. Same with Rivers, had a great comp % his first year that slightly fell off.

The point is this sophmore slump bullsh%^ is just that, and there is absolutely no history of even a moderate dropoff from year one to year 2. If there is a "dropoff" is usually by less than 5% in all areas or rather insignificant.

The bottom line is most QB's were more accurate, threw many more TD's to INT's and threw for significantly more yards in their 2nd year.

[Jeremiah W]

There is not a sophmore allowed in the NFL. You have to be a Jr in college or 3 years out of HS to even enter the NFL draft.

Grown ass men do not have sophomore slumps. That is what happens when yu hit the co eds and bong parties instead of practice in the off season.

[Khaine]

That is what happens when yu hit the co eds and bong parties instead of practice in the off season.
You mean like Matt Leinart? :beer:

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Don't understand or agree with teh sophomore slump nonsense.

The only players that have sophomore slumps are players that aren't good and have fluke rookie years.

Flacco is no fluke.

The argument just makes no sense...wait until defenses have a full year of tape on him? To me, the more tape he put out there, the better he played. It doesn't take a full year to find a guy's weakspots...it often takes just about 2 games or so.

Conversely, the advances in a players game vastly outweigh any negatives about tape. Things like...already knowing the offense, knowing your teamates and taking more leadership roles, an offseason actually preparing for a full year of football as opposed to training for a combine and workouts, more NFL coaching specifically for your team etc...

Good players get BETTER in year 2, not regressing into a sophomore slump. I think what they are saying is that Flacco isn't that good.

[Jeremiah W]

Don't understand or agree with teh sophomore slump nonsense.

The only players that have sophomore slumps are players that aren't good and have fluke rookie years.

Flacco is no fluke.

The argument just makes no sense...wait until defenses have a full year of tape on him? To me, the more tape he put out there, the better he played. It doesn't take a full year to find a guy's weakspots...it often takes just about 2 games or so.

Conversely, the advances in a players game vastly outweigh any negatives about tape. Things like...already knowing the offense, knowing your teamates and taking more leadership roles, an offseason actually preparing for a full year of football as opposed to training for a combine and workouts, more NFL coaching specifically for your team etc...

Good players get BETTER in year 2, not regressing into a sophomore slump. I think what they are saying is that Flacco isn't that good.

Exactly. I have not heard much if any of that stuff about Matty Ice 1 and done in the post season.

If a rookie Qb on any other team in the NFL broke a record for winning playoff games the media Brett Favre s storm would be out of control. You saw how they jocked big jen after his rookie season, but I do not see quite the same level of optimism for Flacco on a team that may be even better than the one the steelers won the Sb with in 2005.

[HoustonRaven]

I do not believe in a sophomore slump.

I also think Flacco will do just fine next year.

One thing I will NOT do is lump him in that group of of QB's. Not yet.

Flacco does not belong on that list yet. He has ways to go until we can make those comparisons without the use of purple glasses.

[Lee Van Cleef]

I tend to think this supposed slump is the result of complacency and sitting on one's laurels. Everything we've heard about Flacco indicates he's working harder than ever.

At lot has been made of the INTs he's thrown in camp, but camp is the time to throw them. Yeah you're trying to make sure you've got the offense down, but you've also got to test your own abilities to find your limitations. In camp you might throw a ball into a tight spot to see if you can make the play, you don't take those kinds of chances in a regular season game. I think Joe is smart enough to learn from those throws and use camp as a place to test his boundaries in a less meaningful situation. I also think he is smart enough to know that once he crosses the lines for the first game against the Chiefs, he's got to protect the ball better and be more careful with his decisions.

[RavensDomination]

I do not believe in a sophomore slump.

I also think Flacco will do just fine next year.

One thing I will NOT do is lump him in that group of of QB's. Not yet.

Flacco does not belong on that list yet. He has ways to go until we can make those comparisons without the use of purple glasses.

I don't think anyone is saying that he is in that category yet, just that good QB's generally don't have a "slump" in their second year, they actually get better.

It's funny how Matt Ryan had a weak performance in the playoffs against a pathetic defense and yet all they keep talking about how Flacco is gonna be the one with the sophomore slump.

[psuasskicker]

I wrote an article about this specific topic. You can read it if you click here (http://www.profootball24x7.com/about_columnists_articles.php?id=64&aid=3674).

- C -

[Mr OC]

I think if Joe experiences any slump at all it will be because of a lack of support staff. The reason that you don't hear anyone saying Ryan will have a slump is because they have Roddy White and have added Gonzalez.

[pyite32]

The stupidest thing is that Sophmore Slump is a term for Baseball, after pitchers learn what you problems hitting, etc.

It was never a football term until it gave the announcers another chance to bash the Ravens.

[psuasskicker]

The stupidest thing is that Sophmore Slump is a term for Baseball, after pitchers learn what you problems hitting, etc.

It was never a football term until it gave the announcers another chance to bash the Ravens.

This is an utterly ridiculous conspiracy theory and not at all true. Do you actually not remember media pundits were not using the term describing football players prior to the Ravens even existing? Because I certainly do...

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

This is an utterly ridiculous conspiracy theory and not at all true. Do you actually not remember media pundits were not using the term describing football players prior to the Ravens even existing? Because I certainly do...

- C -

Like...

I do not remember ever hearing so much doubt about a rookie Qb that went to the playoffs.

There was some talk about it with big jen, but every time it came up it was explained that is a college or baseball thing, NFL QBs get better in year 2 even if the stats do not always prove it (unless the get injured or have soft mental makeup and fumble without contact after getting rattled and bollered).

[Dade]

This is an utterly ridiculous conspiracy theory and not at all true. Do you actually not remember media pundits were not using the term describing football players prior to the Ravens even existing? Because I certainly do...

- C -

I dont remember anyone calling it specifily a sophomore slump before this off season.

[52decleetzu]

I dont remember anyone calling it specifily a sophomore slump before this off season.

Neither do I.

[effo5231]

I dont remember anyone calling it specifily a sophomore slump before this off season.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2007/12/15/chargers-marcus-mcneill-is-struggling-through-sophomore-slump/

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5839124/9533975

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/39420-dwayne-bowe-selvin-young-will-they-become-victims-of-the-sophomore-slump

http://football.realgm.com/src_teamarticle/183/20060905/2006_nfl_team_preview_tampa_bay_buccaneers/

That's just from the front page of Google, all predate this off season.

[52decleetzu]

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2007/12/15/chargers-marcus-mcneill-is-struggling-through-sophomore-slump/

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5839124/9533975

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/39420-dwayne-bowe-selvin-young-will-they-become-victims-of-the-sophomore-slump

http://football.realgm.com/src_teamarticle/183/20060905/2006_nfl_team_preview_tampa_bay_buccaneers/

That's just from the front page of Google, all predate this off season.

Wow nice work.:beer1:

[Jeremiah W]

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2007/12/15/chargers-marcus-mcneill-is-struggling-through-sophomore-slump/

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5839124/9533975

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/39420-dwayne-bowe-selvin-young-will-they-become-victims-of-the-sophomore-slump

http://football.realgm.com/src_teamarticle/183/20060905/2006_nfl_team_preview_tampa_bay_buccaneers/

That's just from the front page of Google, all predate this off season.

So maybe it is more than just superstition, but maybe not. Plenty of players are up and down due to a huge number of factors, but for the most part Qbs improve in the second year starting.

Even the QBs that turned out to be busts or disapointments improved inthe second year starting, but most of the Qbs on the list did not evn play that much or at all as rookies and the soph slump data is from maybe year 3 or 4 in the NFL but the 2nd as the starter.

some blog that did some research;
http://dh523.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/comparing-qb-ratings-from-rookie-to-sophomore-season/

Byron Leftwich
- Year 1 QB Rating: 73.0
- Year 2 QB Rating: 82.2 (+9.2)

Eli Manning
- Year 1 QB Rating: 75.9
- Year 2 QB Rating: 77.0 (+1.1)

Peyton Manning
- Year 1 QB Rating: 71.2
- Year 2 QB Rating: 90.7 (+19.5)

Dan Marino
- Year 1 QB Rating: 96.0
- Year 2 QB Rating: 108.9 (+12.9)

Donovan McNabb
- Year 1 QB Rating: 77.8
- Year 2 QB Rating: 84.3 (+6.5)

Steve McNair
- Year 1 QB Rating: 70.4
- Year 2 QB Rating: 80.1 (+9.7)


Sure any player may take a step back the next season, but it is not like it is a thing that Qbs struggle in year 2 because the FNL has tape on them now.

Boogie man and lazy reporting. The Ravens tend to have a bad year followed by a good followed by a bad, so there you go. The only reasonable reason the Ravens would struggle is if the passing game is worse (than 28th?) because the run game, O line and even TEs and Wrs are relativly established as reliable.

[Dade]

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2007/12/15/chargers-marcus-mcneill-is-struggling-through-sophomore-slump/

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5839124/9533975

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/39420-dwayne-bowe-selvin-young-will-they-become-victims-of-the-sophomore-slump

http://football.realgm.com/src_teamarticle/183/20060905/2006_nfl_team_preview_tampa_bay_buccaneers/

That's just from the front page of Google, all predate this off season.

Nice. Thanks.

[Dragz]

It's funny how Matt Ryan had a weak performance in the playoffs against a pathetic defense and yet all they keep talking about how Flacco is gonna be the one with the sophomore slump.
Nothing new, the Ravens can't get any respect in the media. Flacco did a great job and is the only rookie in NFL history to win 2 playoff games but Matt Ryan is the man or something. The Raven D made Sanchez wanna curl up and cry the other night but all the analysts wanna say is how he battled back through adversity and got a touchdown, not mentioning that it was mostly the 2nd team D and that that ENTIRE drive belonged to Leon Washington. Its a little ridiculous and I'm frustrated with it but its part of being a Ravens fan.

[RAVENOUS52]

This thread should have just been titled, "The World Hates Baltimore" and got it over with.

I could care less what "THEY" say about Joe Flacco or any other Raven.

THEY've been wrong many times in the past and will likely be wrong about Flack this year.

I would really be disillusioned if Joe wet the bed this season, as, based on his previous performance, he should show significant improvement from last season.

[52decleetzu]

Like I said.

Not likely.

[The Fanatic]

If what we just saw out of Flacco is considered a "Sophomore Slump", I'll take it every day of the week and definitely twice on Sundays.:thumbup: :D

That right there was one of the best halves of QB play by a Raven QB we've seen in a lonnnnggggg time!!:happyanim

That throw to Kelly Washington was a thing of beauty!!

[52decleetzu]

The thing is he makes it look so easy,even Sandusky or maybe it was White commented on it during the game.

I mean that deep ball down the sideline to Washington?? Could not have walked it out and handed it to him in a better position. He dropped that thing right in there like it was a 5 yd comeback route. Just tossed it in there like it was nothing.

This kid is a star.....period.

Give him just a second to scan the field in the pocket and he throws one of the most beautiful balls I have ever seen and is accurate to boot.

[psuasskicker]

He needs a goddamned receiver. If we can get him someone great and back him up with someone mediocre we'll be a top ten passing offense in this league...

- C -

[StingerNLG]

He needs a goddamned receiver. If we can get him someone great and back him up with someone mediocre we'll be a top ten passing offense in this league...

- C -

No kidding! If he had a big play guy we'd be freaking deadly.

But my goodness is Joe Flacco a freaking machine! I just got home and quick-played the game DVR'd. I don't know what was more impressive to me. Yeah, he spead the ball around tonight, and that was great.

But he didn't throw a SINGLE bad ball tonight. 5 incompletions and I can't think of any one of them where you thought "Joe, why did you throw that?". The incomplete to McClain was under pressure and no one else was getting to it. The incomplete to Mason was because Gamble had a fist full of facemask.

I'd say if I picked a nit on it, the ball Heap dropped WAS a little off, but it was still was a ball that Heap could have brought in.

This kid is just special.

[Dade]

Special indeed. Like I said before he has the POTENTIAL to be one of the all time greats.

[xmradiodave]

We do need a "deep-threat" guy, but I will say this; Joe Flacco is making the receivers we have look like stars too. Washington and Mason have been getting just enough separation to look like the deep-threat that we have been pining for. I do think that if Washington was paying attention, he may have been able to cut back in and get a few extra yards before steping out of bounds. But if that is all that I have to complain about from that long reception, that is not a bad position to be in.

[Merlin]

I think our respect and coverage from the media will increase significantly this year as Flacco's value in fantasy football goes up.

While I think our offense production will go up significantly due to 1) O-line 2) Flacco and 3) Ray Rice's best imitation of Westbrook, one more receiver would really make a difference. Hope the FO is able to deliver something in the next 3-4 weeks.

That being said, what a great change of pace to see screen passes to Rice and Flacco throwing in the middle of the field this year.

This seasons is going to be fun!!!:happyanim

[Mista T]

He needs a goddamned receiver.

and


No kidding! If he had a big play guy we'd be freaking deadly.

http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gif

Geez, don't you guys ever give up? Flacco was on a pace for perhaps 300-400 yards passing last light, even with Clayton out.

Our receivers are adequate to do the job .... give it a rest!

[purplepoe]

and




http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gifhttp://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/118/deadhorse.gif

Geez, don't you guys ever give up? Flacco was on a pace for perhaps 300-400 yards passing last light, even with Clayton out.

Our receivers are adequate to do the job .... give it a rest!

Yea, really.

I think they should change the subject to escalators at the stadium!

:D

PP

[jonboy79]

We do need a "deep-threat" guy, but I will say this; Joe Flacco is making the receivers we have look like stars too.

It's a good thing he got 247 yards in jsut over a half without Mark Clayton...

I guess we still NEED somehting???

[Jeremiah W]

Need is the wrong word to to use.

The Ravens could use another WR, but nothing I have seen so far this year makes me think we really need anything.

Flacco is the truth. The O line is monster. The backs are sick. The WRs we do have are solid. Then there is the defense. The special teams need some more work but the punter is the best I ever saw.

[StingerNLG]

Geez, don't you guys ever give up? Flacco was on a pace for perhaps 300-400 yards passing last light, even with Clayton out.

Our receivers are adequate to do the job .... give it a rest!

No. And until I am banned from free speech I will not give it a rest. Once again let me point out who got the most of those catches........Ray Rice. And he was the second leading receiver on the team with only 4 less yards than Derrick Mason.

Joe had a fantastic game last night. Apparently in your horse farm there you didn't see that. But let's not pretend that this single game doesn't change our need to have a deep threat.

If you think Kelley Washington is catching 40+ yard bombs every game, well I hope you are right. Did you happen to notice Demetrius Williams caught NOTHING until halfway through the 3rd quarter?

In the meantime which WR is still the only one with a TD this pre-season? Oh yeah, the one who apparently isn't in the plans for the team this year.

Now, back to the actual subject at hand.

[HoustonRaven]

But let's not pretend that this single game doesn't change our need to have a deep threat

Single game?

You do understand Flacco is the number two pre-season QB in the league right now? Maybe it will translate into regular season success, maybe it wont. But dont paint this as some one game phenomenon. That's not in the least accurate.

That passing attack you seem to want to lambaste seems to be doing just fine so far.

[Paintballguy]

That whole "sophomore slump" is retarded. Flacco had everything thrown at him in the playoffs, and he didn't really implode.

[xmradiodave]

Need is the wrong word to to use...

You are correct. I tend to use the word "need" too frequently and incorrectly. We could use one, but it is not a glaring "need" per se. Between Heap, Mason, Washington and I will throw Rice in there, the passing game is not looking all that shabby.

[StingerNLG]

Single game?

You do understand Flacco is the number two pre-season QB in the league right now? Maybe it will translate into regular season success, maybe it wont. But dont paint this as some one game phenomenon. That's not in the least accurate.

That passing attack you seem to want to lambaste seems to be doing just fine so far.

I'm not lambasting the passing attack. I'm simply saying, as I always have, that Flacco would benefit even more with a reliable deep threat receiver.

Ask yourself why Ray Rice got the most touches in the passing game?

This isn't about Joe. Joe isn't making bad throws and tossing picks. He know this. I don't understand the resistance to wanting him to have something better than he does now to throw to.

[TTRaven]

I'm not lambasting the passing attack. I'm simply saying, as I always have, that Flacco would benefit even more with a reliable deep threat receiver.

Ask yourself why Ray Rice got the most touches in the passing game?

This isn't about Joe. Joe isn't making bad throws and tossing picks. He know this. I don't understand the resistance to wanting him to have something better than he does now to throw to.

What does it matter if Ray Rice go the most touches in the passing game? He's a threat whenever he touches the ball. It would be foolish to not get him involved in the passing game.

[Mista T]

Yea, really.

I think they should change the subject to escalators at the stadium!

:D

PP

Or the Ravens Marching Band, Lee Greenwood, or Kyle Boller! :laugh:

[StingerNLG]

What does it matter if Ray Rice go the most touches in the passing game? He's a threat whenever he touches the ball. It would be foolish to not get him involved in the passing game.

I don't disagree. Ray Rice is just gifted in a way I haven't seen in Baltimore in a long time. Personally, all around he is better than Ray Lewis. In time I think he could be the next LT.

But the running back should not be one of the leading receivers on the team. If he is getting checked down to all the time it means everyone else is covered more than they should be. And there will be a time when teams will key in on that.

Tell you all what. Since it seems like a crime against humanity, and against the rules of the forum these days to have concerns, I will keep my concerns to myself. If Kelley Washington becomes this star receiver that is our guy, I will be very happy. It won't be Justin Harper since he played no snaps with 1st team. So he's out. Clayton, who knows what he'll do or how long he'll even last on the field. So all eyes are on Kelley now.

Let's see if me, and half the rest of the people watching and writing about the Ravens are wrong.

Btw, not that it isn't relevant, but great game Joe!!!

[ravensnhokies]

I am absolutely stoked that Flacco is looking Rice way a lot more. He is a weapon like Westbrook. Would you rather Flacco try to force it into a small open window downfield b/c he needs to throw it to the wideouts more? Or instead, dump it off to Rice who picks up 10 yds and 1st down? Many teams drop their LBs deep in coverage so those windows to throw to an open receiver are very small and quickly close. How do you force those LBs to have to move up closer to the LOS in the passing game.. the RB pass out of the backfield. Teams are now going to have to respect the Rice dump off pass and as a result, this will open up the WR passes downfield.

Pittsburgh D is not rocket science... They rush 4-5 guys, get great pressure on the QB, and the rest drop into a nice zone. A quick dump off to Rice will negate the pass rush and force Farrior, Timmons, Clark, or Troy up closer to the LOS. First of all, I like the prospects of Rice in space against any of those except for maybe Polamula. Getting them to respect that threat of the Rice pass, will open up the pass downfield. Jeez if we can somehow get a Steeler CB 1 on 1, we will toast them b/c they are not that good. The Steelers D scheme makes those CBs look a lot better than what they really are.

Good O Coordinators know how to orchestrate a gameplan to attack Ds but they need a QB to make the correct reads to make those plays successful. Flacco is growing leaps and bounds in this aspect of his development.

[Dade]

I'm not lambasting the passing attack. I'm simply saying, as I always have, that Flacco would benefit even more with a reliable deep threat receiver.

Everyone here would agree with you on this one. But not having a deep threat isn't going to hurt Flacco either. He seems to be developing fine without one.


Ask yourself why Ray Rice got the most touches in the passing game?


To compensate for Carolina's aggressive defensive ends, Cam came up with a gameplan to called for alot of 3 step drops and dumps.

Joe even said after the game that they were dropping the LBs into coverage so he took the quick short stuff. That later help set up the longer passes.

[StingerNLG]

Everyone here would agree with you on this one. But not having a deep threat isn't going to hurt Flacco either. He seems to be developing fine without one.


It will if the receivers are covered and can't make plays. But as I said, I am not worried about Joe's side of this equation. Joe is going to put the ball in the right places.

I was watching the Giants/Jets preseason game earlier today. To me, Joe Flacco looks every bit as good as Eli Manning did in his game. And if Hakim Nicks doesn't turn out to be as good a receiver as Plaxico was, Eli's gonna have a tough year.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I gotat stick up for Stinger...he has been here a long time and I have no doubt about his "fanhood" so to speak.

I don't see anything wrong with his opinions, or anybody else's for that matter.

Hell, you spent the entire offseason telling us you were the only one who was right about how we should have drafted a WR in the draft.

JW spent the entire offseason trying to convince us to trade away our future for Julius Peppers lol (we love ya J-Dub).

But calling us the lowest scum of the earth (steeler fan) is completely uncalled for :ref:

[StingerNLG]

He's a troll from Pissburgh.


Ok, you know what? You are a piece of shit my friend. A solid piece of shit. I am a Ravens PSL holder and spend more on this team than you probably make.
I'll take a mod warning for saying this gladly.


Thanks RIW. How quickly he forgets his own crap. This dude isn't worth the time of day.

[RavensDomination]

Stinger was a Boller supporter, maybe he is a Stealer troll? :D Seriously though, I was a Boller supporter too :grbac:

I respect Stingers opinion, a lot of fans feel the same way.

[Dade]

Thats uncalled for. You cant just go around calling people trolls from pitt. I might not agree with Sting all the time but he bleeds purple and black.

[StingerNLG]

Get over yourself man. If I didn't post in your thread its a good chance no one else would have.

Ignore list grows by +1.