David Hale being moved to center

[52decleetzu]

I guess this is a move out of necessity since we didnt draft one to groom,and I doubt it is for the long term.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/spor...sive_line.html


Position change on offensive line

In the same season where the Ravens added a new center in Matt Birk, they might have found new backup at that position.

During the offseason, David Hale is making the switch from a tackle in college to a center in the NFL. Hale, a fourth-round pick in 2008, has been working with the second-team offense in minicamps.

“He’s been attached to Birk the entire offseason,” coach John Harbaugh said recently.

Offensive coordinator Cam Cameron seems to prefer more upright centers. Birk is 6 feet 4, and Hale is 6-6.

Last season, Jason Brown started at center for the Ravens, and Chris Chester and Marshal Yanda both took snaps at center during training camp.

They obviously dont think Chester can hold up at center and prefer him at guard,so Im guessing that Hale is being given the opportunity to see what he can do at center for the time being.If Birk goes down with an injury they need someone who has gotten some reps at the position,so it looks like Hale is the guy.

Not sure I see this one working,6'6 is very tall for a center.I know they say that Cameron likes his centers taller? but that could be some coach speak for all we know to try to justify the experiment.

[baltimore_hokie]

i think it's less of a concern with a tall quarterback like flacco. that does seem really tall, but with the DT's we face i would rather have a big body there than an athletic guy like chester.

he could be our next big 4th rounder than ends up being a stud C after a few years of understudy...

[Paintballguy]

well at least he gets to learn from one of the best in Birk.

[shaslers]

Not sure I see this one working,6'6 is very tall for a center.I know they say that Cameron likes his centers taller? but that could be some coach speak for all we know to try to justify the experiment.

Before this was announced, back when Birk was signed, Cam was on the record (http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2009/03/Cam_Ecstatic_Over_New_Center.aspx)stating that with a 6'6" QB, a 6'4" center makes sense.


We were looking for a center that can lead our offensive line. I feel that he’s a perfect fit for Joe [Flacco]. He’s 6-4, 6-5, and of course, with Joe being 6-6, having a taller center has some merit. This guy has great experience and has played at a high level for a long time. Ironically, I had a chance to coach him right out of college at the Blue - Gray Game. He was a so-called ‘sleeper’ back then. He’s not a sleeper anymore. He’s one of the - if not the - premier centers in this league.”

QB's are taught to bend their knees when taking a snap; a taller center means less knee bend for a tall QB, and therefore more comfort, with the added bonus of being able to see the defense better when more upright.

You could speculate that a taller center is able to see more of the defense when making line calls. With added emphasis on centers carrying more weight to deal with jumbo nose guards in the ever-popular 3-4 set, you can also see how a bigger guy can carry that weight without losing mobility.

[jonboy79]

I guess this is a move out of necessity since we didnt draft one to groom,and I doubt it is for the long term.

.

I see no reason to think it's not a long term move. They definately value solidity at the C and T spots and mobility at the guard spots. Chester and Grubbs were pulling all over, and Brown typically stayed put despite solid athleticism. I see no reason to think Hale would not make a fine Center.
We had enough of a glut at RT that he didn't stand much chance there(I wasn't she he'd cut it anyways).
I think this assures we keep the same OL as last year, subbing in Birk for Brown and Oher for Anderson. Terry and Cousins are both swing backups at OT, and Hale, as well as the loser(or healthy one) from Yanda and Chester are more then adequate as interior backups. Cousins and Terry could also both likely fill in at guard in a pinch.

FWIW, I think this is a great idea.

[JimZipCode]

I thought this kid Felix had a great chance to make the team; but now, not so much. I think Hale was one of the Ravens "red star" guys from the last draft; it stands to reason they'd find a way to use him.

It'd be funny to see Troy Smith lining up over Hale. You'd just see the top of Smith's helmet...

[JimZipCode]

[url=http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2009/03/Cam_Ecstatic_Over_New_Center.aspx]Cam was on the record [/url

I love this quote from the link:


I’m not really picky about what we want on offense. We just want good football players. Look at guys like Derrick Mason, look at Mark Clayton. We’ve got good football players. Just go out and get those guys, and we’ll find a way to use them. We don’t have a system where we need to have an exact type of guy - just get us a football player.
Not a whacky over-specialized system: just football. Get good football players, and we’ll find a way to use them. YEAH!

[Stealthbirds80]

It'd be funny to see Troy Smith lining up over Hale. You'd just see the top of Smith's helmet...[/QUOTE]

LOL, nice. I think that this move is a "lets see" how this goes type of thing. 6-6 is pretty tall for a center with 6-4 I'm thinking would have been the max, but I guessing with Flacco b/c of his size then this could work. I didn't know about Hale being one of the Ravens "star" players from last years draft so that is pretty encouraging to say the least. I definately think Chester will remain at guard with his athletism to pull on sweeps and get to the second level. I like the versatility that the OL is showing so we can plug and play if and when injuries happen. This is how great OL's stay great throughout the year and don't drop off b/c of an injury or two during a game or season.

[awalt]

I love this quote from the link:

Not a whacky over-specialized system: just football. Get good football players, and we’ll find a way to use them. YEAH!

This is somewhat different than the philosophy on defense however. We take hi motor athletic guys but fit them into a system. What we need on the DL is well defined, as is LB Safety and CB. We have a "system" on defense which is why guys leave here and are not as effective in a less-defined or different role.

[sailorsam]

not good news for that FA from Directional Tech they just signed (forgot his name...)

edit; Robbie Felix from Texas-El Paso. he still might be a long-term factor

[52decleetzu]

The height issue for a center has nothing to do with the quarterbacks height in what I was referring to,I was talking about leverage against the big monster defensive tackles they go against inside.I guess you could make an argument for that when Flacco is trying to scan the field in the pocket but that's not where I was going with it.

You usually want a guy who is in the 6'2-4 range to ensure that the big DT cant get under his pads and drive him backwards into the pocket.With a taller guy he is more likely to play a little high and thus be more susceptible to getting off balance.

I would rather have the wide low center of gravity bowling ball type like Jason Brown was,who can really drive off the line in the run game and move someone when he has to.I just don't see Hale as that type of guy that would fit our offensive philosophy.Remember this guy played tackle in college,was drafted to play guard and now he is moving to center? Thats a pretty big leap,and Hale isnt the greatest of an athlete which was why he was moved to guard in the first place.

With teams not pulling their guards as much these days the athleticism required to play guard is much less than at center.At center you need the size and strength to go head up with a nose tackle and open up running lanes,and against a 4-3 front usually they are not covered by a lineman and need to be able to play in space and get their hands on a linebacker.They also need the lateral movement to help a guard pick up a blitz on the inside.

This is why center is a very underrated position on the line,you cant just plug a guy in who has never player there before and expect him to succeed.It a position that takes a lot of time working on your technique so you don't get caught over extending in the run game and making sure you maintain your base in pass protection and stay in balance.

When you have the Buddy Lee type DT's who are the short wide powerful guys I don't think it would be advantageous to have a tall guy up against him.Kind of like how Harrison being so short can get under the tackle coming around the edge.Not exactly the same situation,but a reasonable comparison.

Hale might get some snaps at center but like I said I doubt it is for the long term,he was drafted as a guard and I think they are just trying to give him some time there to develop as a one of those guys who can "theoretically" play anywhere on the line in a pinch.

Birk isnt the center of the future,and neither is Hale IMO.That guy is probably in next years draft,although I would have loved to grab one of them this year because there were some great values in the mid rounds.

Again,I dont see this as a permanent move just one based out of need right now.The chances are Hale will see hardly any snaps in a live game anyway at center unless Birk gets hurt,so its really not that big of a deal either way.

[purplepoe]

All I know is that if Hale is snapping the ball in the regular season, it means very bad things have happened.

PP

[jonboy79]

With teams not pulling their guards as much these days the athleticism required to play guard is much less than at center.At center you need the size and strength to go head up with a nose tackle and open up running lanes,and against a 4-3 front usually they are not covered by a lineman and need to be able to play in space and get their hands on a linebacker.They also need the lateral movement to help a guard pick up a blitz on the inside.
.

Hmm, it's teams other then the Ravens you are talking about....
Baltimore, at least last year was constantly pulling it's guards and VERY RARELY doing so with Brown at C. I would have agreed with you if you said that part of why Hale is being moved from Guard to Center is his lack of athleticism.

[CDiPiranha]

Cam simply loooooooves the 'power' play (that is, the inside pull plays). If Cam didn't love this play before he got to San Diego, he had no choice but to embrace it under Marty -- Marty has said on more than one occasion that he wants "Power O" or some variation of the 'power' embossed on his tombstone when its all over for him.

As Jonboy stated, in our scheme under Cam & Matsko, I would believe that Hale lack of footspeed actually works better for him as the snapper than as an OG that would be asked to move and get to the 2nd-level quite a bit.

Also, folks have to realize that there are soooo many variations along the OL in regards to called plays that a guy like Hale can be 'hidden' in blocking schemes if his actually ability to block is sound. There are teams like the Jets who have notoriously pulled or moved their center quite a bit instead of a particular OG -- both Kevin Mawae in the past & Nic Mangold currently. Guys like our own Matt Birk, Ryan Kalil (Carolina), Shaun O'Hara (NYG) & Brad Meester (Jax) are also Centers that move quite a bit within their teams' offensive blocking schemes. The key thing is that if the Center has the blocking ability and overall game-saavy to play the position, a solid OL coach & OffCoor should be able to run blocking schemes that allow him to play decently.

I have to admit that I'm a bit intrigued with Hale getting reps at the center spot. To me, getting him work there only strengthens his ability to stay in the organization. I've always felt a bit miffed that the Ravens' organization allowed developmental O-lineman Ike Ndukwe walk a yr or so ago, because I thought he had the goods to play in the interior -- today, he's a starting OG for the Dolphins. Even though I initially thought the Ravens overdrafted Hale, I still believe he can play in this league as an interior guy. I feel like if they give him a season to work on being a Center, because you learn soooo much of the game in the pivot, I think its possible he can actually become a solid reserve (or perhaps a starter) all along the interior in future seasons.

We'll see how it plays out.


.02 from "Unpaid-Scout"C DiP

Poundin' da rock & Punishin' D wins games, period!!!