McGahee a No-Show @ OTA's but does post in Vegas

[TL24x7]

More in Mr. Mojo Rizon (http://www.profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=81&id=3480&view=archive) and our Ravens Notebook (http://www.profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=33&id=3482&view=archive)

It might not mean anything but then again it certainly does little to quiet the discussions about his lack of commitment to the game and his team.

[wickedsolo]

WTF??:thumbdown:

I thought he was making a concerted effort to show up to mini camps, OTA's, passing camps, etc?


This is why that guy will never reach his full potential. If he put the effort into his game like LaDanian Tomlinson or Tiki Barber put into theirs, man there is no telling how good McGahee could be.

I hope Ray Rice just tears it up this season and we dump McGahee's bloated salary next off-season.

[HoustonRaven]

Yet, there will still be some here who will still refuse to acknowledge that Willis is in the dog house with Harbs.

This is yet another issue that will lead to his trade / cut.

Was Manita with him at least?

[srobert96]

Yet, there will still be some here who will still refuse to acknowledge that Willis is in the dog house with Harbs.

This is yet another issue that will lead to his trade / cut.

Was Manita with him at least?

Houston. I agree he is in Harbs doghouse but he will not be cut or traded this year. The cap hit would be too much. If it were financially feasible to cut him or trade him it would have happened already.

I do hope he gets his head on straight because when he is healthy he is by far the best option at rb.

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Riders on the storm!

[ravenmaniac]

Houston. I agree he is in Harbs doghouse but he will not be cut or traded this year. The cap hit would be too much. If it were financially feasible to cut him or trade him it would have happened already.

I do hope he gets his head on straight because when he is healthy he is by far the best option at rb.

He is going to lose his job to the three dudes that are there working for it.

[Losac]

He is going to lose his job to the three dudes that are there working for it.

No, he's not. The team has too much money invested in Willis. Cap hit would be a killer if he were cut or traded now. People calling for his head need to realize this. Worst case scenario is he rides the bench.

[ravenmaniac]

Where did I say he'd be cut? He will ride the pines though.

[Losac]

Where did I say he'd be cut? He will ride the pines though.

Misunderstood what you meant then. :thumbup:

[psuasskicker]

Do you think he realizes that if he has another 700 yard season, he's gonna be begging a team to sign him for $2 mil a year? Entering his late twenties, blown knees, questionable at best work ethic, and two prior teams didn't want him. It's not like this is TO here...McGahee doesn't have close to the talent to fart around like this. Especially in a "dime a dozen" position.

Redskins and Raiders also both have their RBs, so it's not like he can just go to one of them to overpay.....

- C -

[Dragz]

After last season and I would think that Willis would wanna show up at all the OTAs and tear it up to keep Ray Rice out of the starting spot. This guy has little dedication to the art of being a running back. Great running backs like Faulk, Emmitt and LT train a helluva lot in the offseason and studied film to take their game to the next level, Willis seems not to care about getting better. As long as he can get a check, he's fine with doin whatever. I can't wait for the day he's gone, I WANT JAMAL BACK!

[Jeremiah W]

BFD.

OTA.

He has been at most of them, in shape and working hard. So what if he goes to blow off some steam during the off season at a volontary, non contact practice, not a game, not a real practice, an ota, shorts and shirts pass and catch session.

He showed up last year in the playoffs when we needed him most, and if he is ready to lead us back there, no one will remember where he went on summer vacation.

[Mista T]

After last season and I would think that Willis would wanna show up at all the OTAs and tear it up to keep Ray Rice out of the starting spot.

McGahee doesn't have to worry about Ray Rice taking his job anytime soon.

[ravenmaniac]

BFD.

OTA.

He has been at most of them, in shape and working hard. So what if he goes to blow off some steam during the off season at a volontary, non contact practice, not a game, not a real practice, an ota, shorts and shirts pass and catch session.

He showed up last year in the playoffs when we needed him most, and if he is ready to lead us back there, no one will remember where he went on summer vacation.

Because he is LAZY on a team of dedicated players. If Ray is there, he should be there. Its about showing your dedication and leadership. As Trevor Price said, "he is there to show the younger guys".

[Jeremiah W]

Because he is LAZY on a team of dedicated players. If Ray is there, he should be there. Its about showing your dedication and leadership. As Trevor Price said, "he is there to show the younger guys".

There is no way Willis is lazy. That really is a silly misconception. He never would have made it back from his reversed leg injury if he was not a workout warrior.

How much does he need every passing camp and mini camp practice? Ray Rice and the younger backs could use the reps more than him. As long as he is there for all the mandatory and some of the voluntary that is good enough. He knows what he has to do to be ready for a season. Ray Lewis hardly ever used to show up for these practice sessions and was ready to go when it was time for camp.

[ravenmaniac]

He IS lazy and he consistently shows up to camp out of shape and overweight. This is no way to endear yourself to the coaches and fans. He needs to get on board w/the new coach or ride the pines.

[psuasskicker]

There is no way Willis is lazy. That really is a silly misconception. He never would have made it back from his reversed leg injury if he was not a workout warrior.

Please. He was busting his ass to get a fat rookie contract with no money in his pocket. Since then, he's earned about $30MM and is still sitting on his current deal that could make him another $20MM if he plays through the whole thing.

Given how he's come to Bills camp and Ravens camp these last three or four years, there's pretty much no question he doesn't have close to that work ethic he displayed coming back from his UM injury.

For a guy people are calling soft, out of shape, and potentially finished in his current city, it's not an encouraging sign to make anyone think he's going to turn it around. Yeah, I get that they're just OTAs. But a lot of vets that have proven a lot more than him are at these things. It just doesn't read of a guy that actually wants to make his impact felt on this team.

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

Please. He was busting his ass to get a fat rookie contract with no money in his pocket. Since then, he's earned about $30MM and is still sitting on his current deal that could make him another $20MM if he plays through the whole thing.

Given how he's come to Bills camp and Ravens camp these last three or four years, there's pretty much no question he doesn't have close to that work ethic he displayed coming back from his UM injury.

For a guy people are calling soft, out of shape, and potentially finished in his current city, it's not an encouraging sign to make anyone think he's going to turn it around. Yeah, I get that they're just OTAs. But a lot of vets that have proven a lot more than him are at these things. It just doesn't read of a guy that actually wants to make his impact felt on this team.

- C -

I don't know. He was at the last ones. No one was saying he was ot of shape, it was more like it is a nice suprise to se him here.

Plenty of vets skip all of these and go on to have all pro seasons.

From what I have seen so far from Wills in 2 years is about what I expected. He is pretty good for 100 yards and a td or 2 when healthy, 4.2 ypc or so and at least a threat for a long run at any time.

Is he in his best possible shape every year? Does he work as hard as he could? Maybe not, but unlike a lot of guys, he is not really on the bubble, even if he is percived to be in "the dog house" or whatever. He is going to start as long as he is healthy and better than the backups, and this may be his last season here and he will be playing for a contract, so I expect to see the kind of effort he put in the last time he was in a contrract year.

For me it is going to come down to his results not his methods and I expect him to be ready to have his best pro season this year, and to show up in shape for most of the OTAs coming up.

[purplepoe]

It's the pattern that makes it unsettling. It's not one instance. The guy was clearly out of shape last year and everyone (well, almost everyone) knows it. It was not a secret.

It's pretty obvious he hasn't grasped the idea of perception and how it will affect him now and down the line.

If he comes to training camp in shape that's great and stuff like this will be forgotten. But the problem is Willis isn't working with a great history here and if he does indeed show up out of shape again, it's gonna be a very long year for him.

Count me as a fan who thinks he can still be a very good RB and the best RB on this team. However, he's put himself in a position where the burden is on him to be in shape and on board with the program. Missing an OTA just to go to Vegas doesn't exactly show a whole lot of dedication.

These guys have an opportunity to do whatever they want for a few months. To choose to do this now after what we've seen speaks volumes.

PP

[ravenmaniac]

Its about TEAM and TEAM players. TEAM players show up for 48 hrs THEN go back to partying for the next few months. I have no sympathy for this guy.

[psuasskicker]

Count me as a fan who thinks he can still be a very good RB and the best RB on this team. However, he's put himself in a position where the burden is on him to be in shape and on board with the program. Missing an OTA just to go to Vegas doesn't exactly show a whole lot of dedication.

These guys have an opportunity to do whatever they want for a few months. To choose to do this now after what we've seen speaks volumes.


This.

- C -

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

For a guy people are calling soft, out of shape, and potentially finished in his current city, it's not an encouraging sign to make anyone think he's going to turn it around. Yeah, I get that they're just OTAs. But a lot of vets that have proven a lot more than him are at these things. It just doesn't read of a guy that actually wants to make his impact felt on this team.

:word

[RavensDomination]

For a guy people are calling soft, out of shape, and potentially finished in his current city, it's not an encouraging sign to make anyone think he's going to turn it around.

Where are people calling him soft? Knock him for missing an OTA all you want, but he is anything but soft. Also calling him finished in his current city is a bit of a reach.

[psuasskicker]

Where are people calling him soft? Knock him for missing an OTA all you want, but he is anything but soft. Also calling him finished in his current city is a bit of a reach.

Seriously? Were you living in a cave all last summer and fall?

- C -

[Ravenatic20]

Maybe he can't physically practice?


McGahee Had Surgery On Ankle, Not Knee
From Jamison Hensley of The Baltimore Sun:

Willis McGahee doesn't know when he'll be running yet, but the Ravens running back said he would be fully recovered for the start of training camp in late July. He was sidelined Friday because he is coming off arthroscopic surgery. A team official indicated that McGahee had surgery on his knee, but the seven-year veteran said it was his ankle.

This post is a few weeks old, but it does explain a little. Not to mention the OTA's are not mandatory. :chill

[ravenmaniac]

The show up, stand on the sidelines and support your TEAM. Its a freakin dream job.

[TL24x7]

Wrote a column on this topic today: Is McGahee the Willis Buffalo warned us about? (http://www.profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=1&id=3483&view=archive)

[JimZipCode]

I don't love Willis's "team concept" or his contract; however he deserves his due. When the chips were down in the 4th Q against the Steelers in the AFCC, he was pass-blocking like a hero. He made 3 or 4 amazing blocks on blitz pickups across the formation, to keep Joe on his feet and hope alive. Great plays. If we'd have won that game, he would have been a big part of the reason why.

[elland]

Seriously? Were you living in a cave all last summer and fall?

- C -

Seriously? Where were you living last regular season + playoffs.

[Jeremiah W]

If he is injured and can not even practice, why should he be at a voluntary practice just to stand around on his bad ankle?

I think it is unfair to judge him on this in any way. He is going to thave to produce when the season starts and nothing he does between now and then is going to change that, so whatever he feels like he has to do to get ready is fine with me.

Many rookie RBs are not even allowed to attend these practice sessions and come in and have great seasons. It is not like Willis has to learn the playbook this year. All he has to do is run the ball well when the season starts and no one will care how his weekend in Vegas went.

I have no issue with any player skipping non mandatory practice. Make it mandatory if it is really that important, and maybe give them some sort of finacial incentive. Why risk injury for free if you do not feel like you have anything to prove or gain by doing walkthrough practices at 3/4 speed in shorts.

The other backs on the roster have a lot to learn and a lot to more to gain than lose. Willis has a huge contract. All he has to do is produce whn the games count and like LT, no one will care what he did or did, not do in the off season or pre season.

[elland]

Wrote a column on this topic today: Is McGahee the Willis Buffalo warned us about? (http://www.profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=1&id=3483&view=archive)

Blaming him for our 2007 season (Bills game), is ridiculos.

[Jeremiah W]

Blaming him for our 2007 season (Bills game), is ridiculos.

I agree. We may not have won a single game without his 1,200 yards that year. So what if he had to come out of the game, someone else has to step up. No RB gets all the carries.

I can accept that people do not like him, but the kind of things they come up with to knock him are suspect. He likes to have a good time. So what? He had a bad year last year, but he was there helping us get into and deep in the playoffs. If he is healthy he is still a top 10 back. It was not his fault the Ravens gave him the money they did and a lot of people do not get the difference between mandatory and voluntary, injured from lazy or no good either.

[TL24x7]

Blaming him for our 2007 season (Bills game), is ridiculos.

Selective reading gentlemen...selective reading.

I didn't blame him for the loss...I blame him for not caring about the team...go out the night before the game and then you have to come out of the game because you are dehydrated on a day when it's breezy and 66 degrees?

Please stop apologizing for his selfish behavior. Too many do and if more didn't, maybe McGahee might not be so selfish.

They lost the game because the offense stunk.

The column read, "Struggling by air the team needed McGahee to step up again."

Inherent in that statement is that he stepped up previously as mentioned in the preceding paragraph when recalling his 46 yard TD run.

Instead of stepping up again, he stepped out for his IV which would have been unnecessary had he not gone out and painted the town of Buffalo the night before...

[RavensDomination]

I don't love Willis's "team concept" or his contract; however he deserves his due. When the chips were down in the 4th Q against the Steelers in the AFCC, he was pass-blocking like a hero. He made 3 or 4 amazing blocks on blitz pickups across the formation, to keep Joe on his feet and hope alive. Great plays. If we'd have won that game, he would have been a big part of the reason why.

Jim - those of us who watch the games realize these facts. Not to mention when our season went down the tubes in 2007 he was running with heart every down, especially in the Patriots game we should have won. If you took him off the 2007 squad, we would have been a lot worse than we were. I don't think any Ravens fan who watches Ravens games would ever call the man "soft."

[effo5231]

Jim - those of us who watch the games realize these facts. Not to mention when our season went down the tubes in 2007 he was running with heart every down, especially in the Patriots game we should have won. If you took him off the 2007 squad, we would have been a lot worse than we were. I don't think any Ravens fan who watches Ravens games would ever call the man "soft."

I haven't missed a game in 9 years. I tape each game so I can rewatch them in the off season and on weekdays between games.

That said, Willis can and does go soft. The Buffalo game is a good example, and all last season it seemed like he'd find some other reason not to practice, to miss OTAs, to show up fat and out of shape, or to check out of games after a couple of plays.

Counting on Willis to be a workhorse makes as much sense as counting on Flacco to rush for 600 yards next season... technically it could happen, but no one is betting on it.

[Jeremiah W]

• Three starters missed the team’s second voluntary minicamp: running back Willis McGahee(notes), safety Ed Reed(notes) and defensive tackle Haloti Ngata(notes). This is the first missed camp of the year for McGahee and Reed.


Lets see how the rest of the off season goes before we stick a fork in our best running back, unless we are also going to get on Reed for going soft at times and skipping ota stuff.

[baltimore_hokie]

i think willis can be soft and his dedication can definitely be questioned, which is why i was so curious when he showed up at previous workouts. i don't think many were expecting to see him at all, but i guess we need to see that he has already been to more this year than he did last year.

[ravenmaniac]

Dude is lazy. Every back on our team wants it more than him. this is why Ray Rice is going to go out and take his gig. He wants it. Peerman can 3rd down it and McClain basically took it last yr.

[Jeremiah W]

Dude is lazy. Every back on our team wants it more than him. this is why Ray Rice is going to go out and take his gig. He wants it. Peerman can 3rd down it and McClain basically took it last yr.

Rice may work harder than Willis, but I doubt he will be better this year.

I also doubt you can be an NFL running back and be lazy. He may not be as motivated or feel as much to prove as a young guy or some other NFL back, but he is not a high paid former pro bowl running back on sheer talent and lazy work habits. that just does not happen. plenty of guys that did work hard did not work as starting RBs. We will see how he looks soon enough. Actualy not nearly soon enough. I am into the hoops and may even watch some O's tonight, but some muggy august football practice is what I am wanting to watch.

[ravenmaniac]

Rice may work harder than Willis, but I doubt he will be better this year.

I also doubt you can be an NFL running back and be lazy. He may not be as motivated or feel as much to prove as a young guy or some other NFL back, but he is not a high paid former pro bowl running back on sheer talent and lazy work habits. that just does not happen.

Harbs appreciates hard work. It's all about TEAM. WIllis is about willis. CMAC was about CMAC. Willis didn't stand out last yr, McClain did. Rice was coming off a huge senior season where he had a TON of carries. Expect to see him tear it up this season.

[Jeremiah W]

Rice may work harder than Willis, but I doubt he will be better this year.

I also doubt you can be an NFL running back and be lazy. He may not be as motivated or feel as much to prove as a young guy or some other NFL back, but he is not a high paid former pro bowl running back on sheer talent and lazy work habits. that just does not happen.

Harbs appreciates hard work. It's all about TEAM. WIllis is about willis. CMAC was about CMAC. Willis didn't stand out last yr, McClain did. Rice was coming off a huge senior season where he had a TON of carries. Expect to see him tear it up this season.

Why was Willis the only one getting any offense last year in thelast game we played then?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80e35e18/AFC-Championship-Willis-McGahee-highlights

[RavensDomination]

I haven't missed a game in 9 years. I tape each game so I can rewatch them in the off season and on weekdays between games.

That said, Willis can and does go soft. The Buffalo game is a good example, and all last season it seemed like he'd find some other reason not to practice, to miss OTAs, to show up fat and out of shape, or to check out of games after a couple of plays.

Counting on Willis to be a workhorse makes as much sense as counting on Flacco to rush for 600 yards next season... technically it could happen, but no one is betting on it.

So let me get this straight, you say the Buffalo game without getting into any specifics, then mention showing up fat (laughable) and out of shape (he could run your ass into the ground I'm sure).

Can you prove anything you just said? Not to mention, even if he did show up out of shape, a Preston-esque rumor, that makes him soft? Please.

[RavensDomination]

Why was Willis the only one getting any offense last year in thelast game we played then?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80e35e18/AFC-Championship-Willis-McGahee-highlights

Come on Jeremiah, you're killing the Preston-ites and their rumor mongering with all of these facts.

I heard McGahee got hurt in that game because he had sex with two different women that week :rolleyes:

[purplepoe]

So let me get this straight, you say the Buffalo game without getting into any specifics, then mention showing up fat (laughable) and out of shape (he could run your ass into the ground I'm sure).

Can you prove anything you just said? Not to mention, even if he did show up out of shape, a Preston-esque rumor, that makes him soft? Please.

Wait a second.

You think Mike Preston made up that McGahee showed up out of shape last year?

PP

[baltimore_hokie]

i think the "soft" label is coming from his jamal lewis-type runs of two yards where he falls over when any of the O-linemen fart on him. you can't seriously tell anyone that mcgahee was finishing runs like mcclain, marion barber, AP, etc. if he was finishing his runs and grinding out the extra few yards, i think we would all be in for a treat and get off of his ass.

[effo5231]

So let me get this straight, you say the Buffalo game without getting into any specifics, then mention showing up fat (laughable) and out of shape (he could run your ass into the ground I'm sure).

Can you prove anything you just said? Not to mention, even if he did show up out of shape, a Preston-esque rumor, that makes him soft? Please.

I didn't have to get into specifics in regards to the Buffalo game, it was covered quite well, I was simply agreeing with it.

As for the fat and out of shape stuff. It was reported frequently in the beginning of camp last year that when Willis showed up he was over the weight the team wanted him to be at and under-conditioned. Yes, Willis on his worst day is a better athlete than me, but I don't make millions to keep my body in good shape. Your ad hominin attack at me is laughable and does nothing to support your point.

By the way, you keep harping on the idea that Preston was the only one saying this stuff, but NBC ran this article (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/sports/football/The_Fall_of_Willis_McGahee.html) back in September... did Preston pay them to?

[psuasskicker]

Seriously? Where were you living last regular season + playoffs.

Usually, to crack smart, it means you actually have to know about which you are speaking.

Go back and reread what was being referred to. Your post is completely not relevant to the topic that was being discussed.


i think the "soft" label is coming from his jamal lewis-type runs of two yards where he falls over when any of the O-linemen fart on him. you can't seriously tell anyone that mcgahee was finishing runs like mcclain, marion barber, AP, etc. if he was finishing his runs and grinding out the extra few yards, i think we would all be in for a treat and get off of his ass.

It's not just that. It's the FACT that he showed up at camp last year overweight and out of shape. I don't care what sort of shape he got into by the end of the year. I don't care that he played great in the last couple weeks and in the playoffs. If he'd come into camp motivated and strong and ready to play, he'd have done as well if not better down the stretch as he did.

But if he'd have come into camp in shape, he probably would have had more than 671 rushing yards at 3.9 per carry. That's PATHETIC production over the course of the year, and if he were motivated, he'd have done better.

Regarding Reed and Ngata, you let me know when they have a terrible season cause they're farting around in the off-season. When that happens, then I'll start bitching them out for being unmotivated and skipping OTAs. I don't worry about Reed missing them cause I know he's gonna be ready come camp time. Same with Ngata.

Not at all so with Willis.

- C -

[effo5231]

Usually, to crack smart, it means you actually have to know about which you are speaking.

Go back and reread what was being referred to. Your post is completely not relevant to the topic that was being discussed.



It's not just that. It's the FACT that he showed up at camp last year overweight and out of shape. I don't care what sort of shape he got into by the end of the year. I don't care that he played great in the last couple weeks and in the playoffs. If he'd come into camp motivated and strong and ready to play, he'd have done as well if not better down the stretch as he did.

But if he'd have come into camp in shape, he probably would have had more than 671 rushing yards at 3.9 per carry. That's PATHETIC production over the course of the year, and if he were motivated, he'd have done better.

Regarding Reed and Ngata, you let me know when they have a terrible season cause they're farting around in the off-season. When that happens, then I'll start bitching them out for being unmotivated and skipping OTAs. I don't worry about Reed missing them cause I know he's gonna be ready come camp time. Same with Ngata.

Not at all so with Willis.

- C -

You're just saying that cause Willis could run you into the ground :laugh:

[psuasskicker]

You're just saying that cause Willis could run you into the ground :laugh:

The Detroit Lions 5th string RB could run me into the ground. Doesn't change the fact that Willis has shown a questionable at best work ethic.

- C -

[RAVENOUS52]

Meh, much to do about nothing, IMO.

Typical over-analytical NFL fans reading too much into something that's routine.

Last season a lot of cats on this board were running their jibbs when Terrell Suggs missed training camp and he went on to have another Pro Bowl season.

Ed Reed and Haloti Ngata missed the minicamp as well, so it doesn't mean a thing if McGahee misses a voluntary minicamp, as long as he's there when he's supposed to be and he produces on gameday.

You may now remove the loaded Glocs from your temples.:grbac:

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

Ed Reed and Haloti Ngata missed the minicamp as well, so it doesn't mean a thing if McGahee misses a voluntary minicamp, as long as he's there when he's supposed to be and he produces on gameday.

McGahee if not for his bloated cap number would be gone!

Reed has been at voluntary camps up to now and has participated despite the ongoing nerve impingement. He was also in town to support O.J. Brigance.

Ngata is away earning his degree.

McGahee stands around during practice in a red jersey because he procrastinated with his scoping surgery but finds time to make it to Vegas earning his degree as a lush. Dude likes the sauce.

Oh and comparing his work ethic to Suggs' is a joke! When Suggs reported he was in excellent shape and there was no decline in his play.

Can you say the same for McGahee?

[oakhillraven]

McClain should be number one. Hes got heart and is a proven asset to the Ravens O. I couldnt believe when I read that he will be returned to a lead blocker role. What a waste! I could care less what happens to McGahee. Ask Cmac how serious Harbs is about his team first mentality. It wont be long.

[Heap86]

From May 19th Sun Blog:

"Solid showing at first voluntary camp

A week since their only mandatory minicamp ended, the Ravens conducted one of their most well-attended voluntary camps in recent memory.

Players who normally skip these practices -- linebacker Ray Lewis and running back Willis McGahee -- both were out on the field Tuesday. The only starters missing were linebacker Terrell Suggs (franchise tag) and defensive tackle Haloti Ngata, who is in school trying to finish his degree.

"It’s exciting that guys want to be here but it’s not surprising," coach John Harbaugh said. "Our players love football. We kind of expect everybody here every day. But our guys want to be here because they love football."

Its not like Willis is skipping all of the OTA's. McGahee missed one voluntary mini camp.

Big Friggin' deal. Let's get rid of the guy for that :grbac:

[ravenmaniac]

Why was Willis the only one getting any offense last year in thelast game we played then?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80e35e18/AFC-Championship-Willis-McGahee-highlights

Pay attention here.....Rice was out w/an injury and McClain was nursing an ankle injury and "Willis" was fresh cause he'd been riding the pines most of the time up until then having lost his starting RB position to a rookie drafted FB who took it from him. He never would have lost it if he'd had the passion that these two have.

[Jeremiah W]

Pay attention here.....Rice was out w/an injury and McClain was nursing an ankle injury and "Willis" was fresh cause he'd been riding the pines most of the time up until then having lost his starting RB position to a rookie drafted FB who took it from him. He never would have lost it if he'd had the passion that these two have.

I think you are confusing passion and desire with injury and less productive than the FB who was good enough to go to the pro bowl more for his running 10 Tds than his blocking.

Willis was running hard and was the most effective back vs the Steelers in the playoff game, and was the starter. Will be the starter at the start of camp as well unless he is injured.

He is going to have to stay healthy and productive or he will be cut after next year, and coming to every ota practice will not change that.

[effo5231]

I think you are confusing passion and desire with injury and less productive than the FB who was good enough to go to the pro bowl more for his running 10 Tds than his blocking.

Willis was running hard and was the most effective back vs the Steelers in the playoff game, and was the starter. Will be the starter at the start of camp as well unless he is injured.

He is going to have to stay healthy and productive or he will be cut after next year, and coming to every ota practice will not change that.

Just because he got up to speed late in the season doesn't diminish the fact that he was good for less than 1000 yards because he spent most of the early season getting back into playing shape. We pay him for 16 games plus the playoffs... not a few good games down the stretch.

[James R(aven)]

McGahee's time in Baltimore is numbered. He's not a Harbaugh team player and as soon as it's financially acceptable to offload him... they will.

I hope he proves me wrong, get's his ass in good shape during training camp and plays through the season like a Raven. But I'm not going to be too surprised if he has a similar season to last.

[TL24x7]

Its not like Willis is skipping all of the OTA's. McGahee missed one voluntary mini camp.

Big Friggin' deal. Let's get rid of the guy for that


Just to clarify, if you go to your kid's soccer game and stand on the sidelines and watch, does that mean you participated in the game?

If your answer is yes, then yes, McGahee has participated in previous voluntary OTA's.

[braven98]

hopefully Ray Rice takes over

[Jeremiah W]

Just to clarify, if you go to your kid's soccer game and stand on the sidelines and watch, does that mean you participated in the game?

If your answer is yes, then yes, McGahee has participated in previous voluntary OTA's.

So if he can not even take reps right now, why should he go and watch his backups practice some more?
He saw who we have and how many guys that look like starter quality NFL backs in the mix.

I think he knows the stakes and is going to gamble. Given the way he preformed and got hurt in the last game, I am not going to count him out, even though even he mave been the victim of a tko, he has shown that he can bounce back, and bounce off would be tacklers and break long runs at this level, as recently as last year.

With all of his injuries last year and off season surgury, it is more than fair to not expect to much more out of Willis, but I think the way he played before getting knocked the fug out was worthy of respect, just not worth as much money as the Ravens gave him, but he can still make up for any and all of his pro disapointment by being the feature back on a championship team. I do not think it is out reach for him to have a few Emmit Smith like massive TD seasons for us behind our young imposing line and strong armed Qb that should keep 8 out of the box.

[psuasskicker]

Meh, much to do about nothing, IMO.

Typical over-analytical NFL fans reading too much into something that's routine.

Last season a lot of cats on this board were running their jibbs when Terrell Suggs missed training camp and he went on to have another Pro Bowl season.

Ed Reed and Haloti Ngata missed the minicamp as well, so it doesn't mean a thing if McGahee misses a voluntary minicamp, as long as he's there when he's supposed to be and he produces on gameday.

You may now remove the loaded Glocs from your temples.:grbac:

Yeah, totally. Remember last year when McGahee came into camp fat and out of shape? We were TOTALLY blowing that out of proportion! The guy proved all of us wrong and went out and ran for 1,800 yards. What a stud!


With all of his injuries last year and off season surgury, it is more than fair to not expect to much more out of Willis, but I think the way he played before getting knocked the fug out was worthy of respect, just not worth as much money as the Ravens gave him, but he can still make up for any and all of his pro disapointment by being the feature back on a championship team. I do not think it is out reach for him to have a few Emmit Smith like massive TD seasons for us behind our young imposing line and strong armed Qb that should keep 8 out of the box.

Your purple shades know no bounds...

- C -

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

Your purple shades know no bounds...

:word

It's pretty ridiculous really and subsequently renders his commentary meaningless.

Get together one more time

[elland]

Fat and out of shape? Pretty good for this fat man to be our leading RB a month later vs Browns, was he pathetic in that game? Not really, and yes he did leave that game, remember why?

And yes he did leave the AFC championship game too, remember why?

This is going to be a long summer, if we are going to discuss Mcgahees where abouts and commitment.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Everytime you guys quote him, I am reminded of why he is on my ignore list.

Emmitt Smith type seasons? wow.

[psuasskicker]

Fat and out of shape? Pretty good for this fat man to be our leading RB a month later vs Browns, was he pathetic in that game? Not really, and yes he did leave that game, remember why?

And yes he did leave the AFC championship game too, remember why?

Hey, remember that season when we had that guy we gave a $40MM contract one year earlier get less than 700 receiving yards and less than 4 yards a carry?

That guy was AW-HAW-HAWWWWESOME!!!

3.9 YPA, tied for 31st among all rushers that had over 100 carries.
#32 in rushing yards.
#22 rushing TDs.

Dude's paid to be a top 5 back. Not a top 35 back.

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

Hey, remember that season when we had that guy we gave a $40MM contract one year earlier get less than 700 receiving yards and less than 4 yards a carry?

That guy was AW-HAW-HAWWWWESOME!!!

3.9 YPA, tied for 31st among all rushers that had over 100 carries.
#32 in rushing yards.
#22 rushing TDs.

Dude's paid to be a top 5 back. Not a top 35 back.

- C -

The guy is a top 5 talent. You do not always get what you pay for in football.

It is not like he did not have any good games last year. 3.9 ypc is not good. He had a very bad year, but he did not look fat. He has had a lot of injury, surgury and missed a lot of time. That is why you do not give any running back that kind of money, but when he has been healthy he has played like the guy they paid him to be.

2007 he got 1200 in 14 games without much help, 8 in the box.

Last year he had horrible stats, but we were winning anyway so who cares?

Willis knows the situation, and I am pretty sure he is going to perform like he is a contract year.

As far as purple eyed optimism, I will never stop being that guy as long as the team is run the way it has been under Oz. There really is no reason to be a purple pessimist. We are not counting on Willis 100% to be our back of the future, but I sure am hoping he is the best back of the present and plays like it when the time comes. What he has to do to get his mind and body right between now and them I trust him to do and I bet the coaches do as well, even if they are hedging the bets by getting Rice, Parmele and Peerman a lot of reps.

BTW Emmit was not a better back than Willis as far as talent, and I think with what we are building around, stud O line and a good young Qb, is the formula that let Emmit go off and get a ton of TDs and 4 yards into the second level before contact.

[effo5231]

BTW Emmit was not a better back than Willis as far as talent.

That statement invalidates everything you have to say on this subject.

[Jeremiah W]

That statement invalidates everything you have to say on this subject.

I am used to that kind of response. Time is usually on my side though. I am fully aware of who has the all time rushing record, and who just ran for 700 yards, but I am not talking about past production or even durability but sheer talent. Willis is bigger, faster and stronger than Emmit with just as good if not better jukes and stiff arms. If you were to alter time and space and drop Willis in the backfeild on those Cowboy teams and send Emmit to Buffalo and here the last 2 years, and I think they would swap stats. Those O lines in Dallas, Irvin, Aikman and all the other weapons opened things up for the run where the guy was almost untouched most of the time for the first 3 or 4 yards.

I think the Ravens run blocking last year was good enough for Willis to have put up 1,500 yards and 15 TDs had he played every game, and the blocking and running lanes should continue to improve as Flacco keeps the safties out of the box with the accurate deep ball.

[HoustonRaven]

:34853_lolpoint:
BTW Emmit was not a better back than Willis as far as talent

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

If you were to alter time and space and drop Willis in the backfeild on those Cowboy teams and send Emmit to Buffalo and here the last 2 years, and I think they would swap stats.

:insane:

Unfortunately stats don't measure heart.

Willis is The Tin Man before his visit to the Land of Oz.

Jeremiah you are by far the poster child for Purple Koolaid. Love your passion bro but for you objectivity when it comes to the Ravens is about as common as a box of Trojans at a Lilith Fair concert.

Let it roll, baby, roll.

[Jeremiah W]

:insane:

Unfortunately stats don't measure heart.

Willis is The Tin Man before his visit to the Land of Oz.

Jeremiah you are by far the poster child for Purple Koolaid. Love your passion bro but for you objectivity when it comes to the Ravens is about as common as a box of Trojans at a Lilith Fair concert.

Let it roll, baby, roll.

I get enough objectivity from the doom and gloom cloud crowd around here. I am optimisticly objective. I see the areas of concern, and bring up plenty of my own issues. Some would say I have crazy eyes, but I just call it like I see it and although I am interested in feedback, do not really care if people agree with me.

As far as Willis, I am not informed enough about his day to day health and mental state to say he does not have the heart to be a great back. I see flashes of incredible talent that he had since way back in the day at Miami every year he has played in the NFLl, just not every game, or every other game, but I am not willing to call him soft or lazy. Having played football long enough to know you get hurt all the time, even when you are not injured, and there is no way you keep coming back if you are soft, have no heart or are lazy. To me saying a veteran pro player you hardly know has no heart, that crosses a line from objective fan to crazy fanatic, that does not understand just how dangerous and violent a game it is, and how hard it is to get ready to play.

If he wants to go to vegas, that is his call. He is a grown man and can decide where and when to gamble. I can see judging a guy on his production, but I think people get way to personal and all judge Judy on grown ass men like they are kids or something. Make it mandatory if he has to be there. I just care how they play not what they do during the off season or on their own time.

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

I just care how they play not what they do during the off season or on their own time.

The flaw in this thinking is that at the NFL level, you can't just walk on the field and realize optimal results. Preparation and conditioning are a huge part of excellence on the field come game day and that is why you should care as a fan.

[effo5231]

The flaw in this thinking is that at the NFL level, you can't just walk on the field and realize optimal results. Preparation and conditioning are a huge part of excellence on the field come game day and that is why you should care as a fan.

Not to mention, Willis pulled this act last year and we ended up paying top dollar for a back who's production was equaled by a couple teams' (including our own) back ups. If all you care about is production on the field, Willis is still a bum.

[jonboy79]

:34853_lolpoint:

WOw, there really is no need to pile on here, but I simply can't help myself.

WOW. I can say that it is fair to say that Emmitt is for sure, NOT the most talented RB ever.
I'll also admit that PRIOR to that bowl game, you could compare WIllis and Emmitt coming out of college and give the edge to Willis.

But after Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Sweetness(Peyton) and perhaps including AP in the future, it's hard to realy place anyone clearly in front of Emmitt. Emmitt transcends stats and measurables. He had some of the best vision and toughness to ever play the game.
That Dallas offensive machine simply clicked in a way never seen before or since. Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt all knew and played their roles in the system and became better together then any alone could have been. Harper, Moose Johnston, Novacek and that glorious line all did the exact same thing. It is the definition of Synergy. All of that said, THe triplets were all top level players.

[wickedsolo]

BFD.

OTA.

He has been at most of them, in shape and working hard. So what if he goes to blow off some steam during the off season at a volontary, non contact practice, not a game, not a real practice, an ota, shorts and shirts pass and catch session.

He showed up last year in the playoffs when we needed him most, and if he is ready to lead us back there, no one will remember where he went on summer vacation.

Because last season when he reported to training camp he was out of shape, unmotivated, and didn't know Cam's playbook at all. So, his performance was beans last year. The guy has a tremendous amount of talent, but no work ethic. Guys like that don't have a place on Harbs' team. After this season he won't be with the Ravens anymore.

If Ray Lewis is there, at 34 years old, then everyone should be there. Especially if he cares at all about keeping his starting spot.

[HoustonRaven]

WOw, there really is no need to pile on here, but I simply can't help myself.

WOW. I can say that it is fair to say that Emmitt is for sure, NOT the most talented RB ever.
I'll also admit that PRIOR to that bowl game, you could compare WIllis and Emmitt coming out of college and give the edge to Willis.

But after Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Sweetness(Peyton) and perhaps including AP in the future, it's hard to realy place anyone clearly in front of Emmitt. Emmitt transcends stats and measurables. He had some of the best vision and toughness to ever play the game.
That Dallas offensive machine simply clicked in a way never seen before or since. Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt all knew and played their roles in the system and became better together then any alone could have been. Harper, Moose Johnston, Novacek and that glorious line all did the exact same thing. It is the definition of Synergy. All of that said, THe triplets were all top level players.

+1

[Jeremiah W]

I did not think so many people were so high on Emmit. I know he was a stud but he was never all that spectacular. He was what Willis has not been, consistant, but I do not equate durable with great talent. Guys like Terrel Davis were better runners but did not hold up. Jamal Lewis in 2003 was better than Emmit at his best as well but never played with the kind of supporting cast to get those kind of numbers year in and year out.

Willis as the starting back for us next year could have an Emmit Smith type season, because he has the talent, and because the Ravens should be even better at run blocking than we were last year. Many of those 6 and 7 yard runs from McClain should be 20+ from a feature back like Willis or Rice that have the abiltity to juke an out run guys in space, not just run them over and make a cut or two. We were one of the top running teams despite having one of the lowest number of long runs, so it does not take much of a leap of faith to project better rushing numbers from a feature back that had 1200 yards in 14 games 2 years ago behind much lesser blocking and QB play.

[psuasskicker]

The guy is a top 5 talent. You do not always get what you pay for in football.

It is not like he did not have any good games last year. 3.9 ypc is not good. He had a very bad year, but he did not look fat. He has had a lot of injury, surgury and missed a lot of time. That is why you do not give any running back that kind of money, but when he has been healthy he has played like the guy they paid him to be.

No, he's not top five talent. He's not even top ten talent. It's literally insane to think otherwise.

His best year was '07. He was 8th in yards, 15th in TDs, and 16th in YPA of backs over 150 carries. That's his BEST year. He's had five years in the NFL, is injured on a fairly regular basis, and going into his late 20s. You think he's suddenly going to just bust out big-time?

Hey, maybe he and Clayton will lead the league in rushing and receiving yards next year! OUR OFFENZE CAN NOT BEE STOOOOOPPED!!! WE WILL RULZ HARD!!!!

Guys I would take right now over McGahee (in no particular order)...
Peterson, Turner, Forte, Tomlinson, DeAngelo Williams, Chris Johnson, Slaton, Steven Jackson, MJD, Gore, Barber, Westbrook, Jacobs, Portis, and prolly Thomas Jones, Lynch, Bush, Addai and Jonathan Stewart.


BTW Emmit was not a better back than Willis as far as talent

You're delusional.

Seriously, every time you write something and I think "Wow, he couldn't say anything dumber," you prove me wrong...

Seriously, do you realize that in Emmitt's first five seasons, he had four seasons better than McGahee's best season so far?

No dude, time is not on your side here. McGahee will never be seen as having more talent as Emmitt.


I did not think so many people were so high on Emmit. I know he was a stud but he was never all that spectacular.

Yeah dude. All time NFL rushing leaders tend to grow on trees. They're pretty common. I could see why you would think a lot of people have a low opinion of him... :eyes:

Seriously, I'm one of the guys that thinks Emmitt is not as good as his stats make him out to be. He's not the best ever. Jim Brown was the best ever, and it's not really close. Sanders and Payton were pretty clearly better in my eyes. There are some others that I could pretty easily debate as being better.

But to think he's not at least one of the all time greats at the position? That's pure insanity. He's most certainly top ten and that's not really an arguable point. He's probably top five.

McGahee wouldn't show up on a top 250 RBs of all time list. Probably not top 500.

I don't know why I torture myself by responding to this ridiculousness...

- C -

[RAVENOUS52]

I now realize that this thread, nay, this entire forum, is nothing more than an elaborate excuse for PSU and Jermiah to throw feces at one another.

Willis missing a voluntary OTA lasting for this many pages is pure absurdity.:grbac:

[Mista T]

Guys I would take right now over McGahee (in no particular order)...
Peterson, Turner, Forte, Tomlinson, DeAngelo Williams, Chris Johnson, Slaton, Steven Jackson, MJD, Gore, Barber, Westbrook, Jacobs, Portis, and prolly Thomas Jones, Lynch, Bush, Addai and Jonathan Stewart.

And Jamal Lewis. :(

[Mr. Mojo Rizon]

I now realize that this thread, nay, this entire forum, is nothing more than an elaborate excuse for PSU and Jermiah to throw feces at one another.

Willis missing a voluntary OTA lasting for this many pages is pure absurdity.

So why bother reading? Why bother with this forum at all?

Isn't reading a four page thread deemed to be absurd more absurd than the thread itself? And if you didn't read the entire thread, then it's hard to reach your conclusion, don't you think?



People are strange, when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly, when you're alone

[RavensDomination]

And Jamal Lewis. :(

lol, you can't be serious...

[Jeremiah W]

No, he's not top five talent. He's not even top ten talent. It's literally insane to think otherwise.

His best year was '07. He was 8th in yards, 15th in TDs, and 16th in YPA of backs over 150 carries. That's his BEST year. He's had five years in the NFL, is injured on a fairly regular basis, and going into his late 20s. You think he's suddenly going to just bust out big-time?

Guys I would take right now over McGahee (in no particular order)...
Peterson, Turner, Forte, Tomlinson, DeAngelo Williams, Chris Johnson, Slaton, Steven Jackson, MJD, Gore, Barber, Westbrook, Jacobs, Portis, and prolly Thomas Jones, Lynch, Bush, Addai and Jonathan Stewart.



You're delusional.

Seriously, every time you write something and I think "Wow, he couldn't say anything dumber," you prove me wrong...

Seriously, do you realize that in Emmitt's first five seasons, he had four seasons better than McGahee's best season so far?

No dude, time is not on your side here. McGahee will never be seen as having more talent as Emmitt.



Yeah dude. All time NFL rushing leaders tend to grow on trees. They're pretty common. I could see why you would think a lot of people have a low opinion of him... :eyes:

Seriously, I'm one of the guys that thinks Emmitt is not as good as his stats make him out to be. He's not the best ever. Jim Brown was the best ever, and it's not really close. Sanders and Payton were pretty clearly better in my eyes. There are some others that I could pretty easily debate as being better.

But to think he's not at least one of the all time greats at the position? That's pure insanity. He's most certainly top ten and that's not really an arguable point. He's probably top five.

McGahee wouldn't show up on a top 250 RBs of all time list. Probably not top 500.

I don't know why I torture myself by responding to this ridiculousness...

- C -

Because you are a jerk and you can not help yourself.

So Emmit is the man. Not saying he was not. He was very productive and consistant, on one of the best teams of all time.
http://www.nfl.com/players/emmittsmith/profile?id=SMI259840

He had only one year where he avg over 5 ypc, and 2 with over 20 TDs. The other years he was about 1,200 yards 12-14 TD.

So far Willis has only had 13 tds once as a rookie, and 1,200 yards once in 14 games in 2007. If you go beyond the numbers a little and look at the offenses they played in, the injury factor and more than just the results and compare the players, Willis measures up. He is bigger, stronger and faster than Emmit was, and while our offense this year is not going to be as monster as the Boys attack, there are plenty of reasons to think it will be better than it was last year.

http://profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=18&id=3485&view=archive

So if the passing game improves, there will be less 8 man fronts.

Rice, McClain and Flacco should all improve in the 2nd year in the offense (really all the skill players should improve playbook knowledge and hot route adjustmens, know the protections better and just be more comfortable in the 2nd year in a much smarter offensive system than the old OC ran).

Even though he has been injured, the low amount of carries may bring Willis into camp and the season in much better condition and fresher than he has been in a while. Last year he may have been out of shape coming in becasue of surgury he could not work out or practice like he should have, and hopfully will get good work in this preseason.

I am not confident enough to bet that Willis will have a 1,400 yard 14 TD season, but I am optimistic that he will do it.

It is not like I think every move the Ravens make, and every guy they put in the starting lineup is going to be awsome, but for the most part they have proven to me they know what they are doing, and if they are confident in Willis, right now, so am I. The way he played in the playoffs vs the Steelers bought him another year from my perspective. One missed OTA is not going to affect that.

[ravenmaniac]

Emmitt Smith is a HOF'er. The only way Willis gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket.

[darb72]

Because you are a jerk and you can not help yourself.

So Emmit is the man. Not saying he was not. He was very productive and consistant, on one of the best teams of all time.
http://www.nfl.com/players/emmittsmith/profile?id=SMI259840

He had only one year where he avg over 5 ypc, and 2 with over 20 TDs. The other years he was about 1,200 yards 12-14 TD.

So far Willis has only had 13 tds once as a rookie, and 1,200 yards once in 14 games in 2007. If you go beyond the numbers a little and look at the offenses they played in, the injury factor and more than just the results and compare the players, Willis measures up. He is bigger, stronger and faster than Emmit was, and while our offense this year is not going to be as monster as the Boys attack, there are plenty of reasons to think it will be better than it was last year.

http://profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=18&id=3485&view=archive

So if the passing game improves, there will be less 8 man fronts.

Rice, McClain and Flacco should all improve in the 2nd year in the offense (really all the skill players should improve playbook knowledge and hot route adjustmens, know the protections better and just be more comfortable in the 2nd year in a much smarter offensive system than the old OC ran).

Even though he has been injured, the low amount of carries may bring Willis into camp and the season in much better condition and fresher than he has been in a while. Last year he may have been out of shape coming in becasue of surgury he could not work out or practice like he should have, and hopfully will get good work in this preseason.

I am not confident enough to bet that Willis will have a 1,400 yard 14 TD season, but I am optimistic that he will do it.

It is not like I think every move the Ravens make, and every guy they put in the starting lineup is going to be awsome, but for the most part they have proven to me they know what they are doing, and if they are confident in Willis, right now, so am I. The way he played in the playoffs vs the Steelers bought him another year from my perspective. One missed OTA is not going to affect that.

Every single time you post I'm reminded of the Celebrity Jeopardy from SNL with Sean Connery and Robin Williams. Sean finally gets annoyed and says to Robin, "Boy, I think you might be legally retarded."

Emmit's average years were better than McGhee's best year and yet you are trying to convince us that McGhee is a better RB? How does a sane person even begin to make that kind of statement? You are without a doubt the dumbest poster on this board and if not for the entertainment value of seeing PSU verbally pimp-smack you, I never would have taken you off ignore.

[festivus]

You are without a doubt the dumbest poster on this board and if not for the entertainment value of seeing PSU verbally pimp-smack you, I never would have taken you off ignore.

I have not read this thread, except for the first couple posts, but this is a great line.

Darb I thought family life had done away with your sharp edge, but now I see you are just saving it for special occasions.

Cheers!

[Jeremiah W]

Every single time you post I'm reminded of the Celebrity Jeopardy from SNL with Sean Connery and Robin Williams. Sean finally gets annoyed and says to Robin, "Boy, I think you might be legally retarded."

Emmit's average years were better than McGhee's best year and yet you are trying to convince us that McGhee is a better RB? How does a sane person even begin to make that kind of statement? You are without a doubt the dumbest poster on this board and if not for the entertainment value of seeing PSU verbally pimp-smack you, I never would have taken you off ignore.

snarky. put me back on ignore any time you like Jenna Wolf.

[B-more Ravor]

FWIW - McGahee is now at OTAs, while many other starters are not:


Many Ravens starters absent at voluntary workout
More than half of the starting lineup missing
Jamison Hensley | Baltimore Sun reporter
11:08 AM EDT, June 2, 2009
OWINGS MILLS - In the most lightly attended minicamp of this offseason, more than half of the Ravens' starters were missing from the team's voluntary workout today.

The 12 starters absent were: Middle linebacker Ray Lewis, safety Ed Reed, cornerbacks Fabian Washington and Domonique Foxworth, defensive tackles Haloti Ngata and Kelly Gregg, defensive end Trevor Pryce, outside linebacker Jarret Johnson, wide receivers Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton, tight end Todd Heap and center Matt Birk.

Running back Willis McGahee, who missed last week's workout that was open to the media, was present today.

Earlier in the offseason, coach John Harbaugh had lauded the team's veterans for showing up at the voluntary workouts.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-ravens0601,0,5462528.story

[psuasskicker]

He had only one year where he avg over 5 ypc, and 2 with over 20 TDs. The other years he was about 1,200 yards 12-14 TD.

Ahh... So what you're saying is, take out Emmitt's three best seasons, and the average for the rest of his career is as good or better than McGahee's best season, and that means McGahee is just as good as Emmitt.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

:eyes:


If you go beyond the numbers a little and look at the offenses they played in, the injury factor and more than just the results and compare the players, Willis measures up.

Why, because you say so? Find me ONE other person that agrees with your POV. It is literally insane.


He is bigger, stronger and faster than Emmit was

Bigger, sure, why not... Haloti Ngata is bigger too. Is he as good a RB as Emmitt?

Stronger and faster? Um, prove it...


and while our offense this year is not going to be as monster as the Boys attack, there are plenty of reasons to think it will be better than it was last year.

Irrelevant.


I am not confident enough to bet that Willis will have a 1,400 yard 14 TD season, but I am optimistic that he will do it.

Ahh...

So you're not confident enough to bet that Willis will have a season as good as Emmitt's sixth best season of his career, but you are confident that Willis is as talented as McGahee...

NOW it's starting to make sense to me!

:eyes:


The 12 starters absent were: Middle linebacker Ray Lewis, safety Ed Reed, cornerbacks Fabian Washington and Domonique Foxworth, defensive tackles Haloti Ngata and Kelly Gregg, defensive end Trevor Pryce, outside linebacker Jarret Johnson, wide receivers Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton, tight end Todd Heap and center Matt Birk.

Next time any of these guys come up small in a season, let me know.

Except Clayton. Dude needs to get his ass to work. He's not good enough to be skipping these things yet, unless he's just happy being a mediocre to worse-than-average #2 receiver. In that case, oh well.

Unlike McGahee, all the guys on this list (i.e. Clayton) that are underperforming to expectations are not getting paid as though they are top five talent nor coming off a year where they had questions about their work ethics arise. I'm not nearly as concerned with them missing for a Vegas romp...

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

Ahh... So what you're saying is, take out Emmitt's three best seasons, and the average for the rest of his career is as good or better than McGahee's best season, and that means McGahee is just as good as Emmitt.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

:eyes:



Why, because you say so? Find me ONE other person that agrees with your POV. It is literally insane.



Bigger, sure, why not... Haloti Ngata is bigger too. Is he as good a RB as Emmitt?

Stronger and faster? Um, prove it...



Irrelevant.



Ahh...

So you're not confident enough to bet that Willis will have a season as good as Emmitt's sixth best season of his career, but you are confident that Willis is as talented as McGahee...

NOW it's starting to make sense to me!

:eyes:



Next time any of these guys come up small in a season, let me know.

Except Clayton. Dude needs to get his ass to work. He's not good enough to be skipping these things yet, unless he's just happy being a mediocre to worse-than-average #2 receiver. In that case, oh well.

Unlike McGahee, all the guys on this list (i.e. Clayton) that are underperforming to expectations are not getting paid as though they are top five talent nor coming off a year where they had questions about their work ethics arise. I'm not nearly as concerned with them missing for a Vegas romp...

- C -

You are dense and I am tired of trying to explain my opinion, but let me clarify since you got it twised as ususal.

Willis will never challenge the all time rushing record at this rate, but at his best compares to Emmit as a talent, and may come close to one of his avg seasons this year.
In the future. I am not talking about what Willis has done, I am talkng about what I, alone think he can and will do this year as a goal I am setting his production at 1,400 yards, 14 tds and 4.5 to 5ypc.

If you like you can set the odds of this happening at 0% like you tend to do, but time will tell. I am setting it at about a 25% long shot at this rate but am willing to roll the dice on Willis again, because like I said, in my OPINION, he is a top 5 talent when on top of his game (able to practice) and close to 100% healthy.

Before you respond you need to watch Big Pat's youtube Willis tribute video if you forgot what he can do when he is healthy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Upn-OMpAI

I do not know if he will ever recapture what he once had, but you have a short and selective memory if you seriously doubt the talent. Or bad eyes.

[psuasskicker]

You are dense and I am tired of trying to explain my opinion, but let me clarify since you got it twised as ususal.

I haven't twisted anything you've said. Case in point.....


Willis will never challenge the all time rushing record at this rate, but at his best compares to Emmit as a talent, and may come close to one of his avg seasons this year.

Ah-heh-hem...

QUOTE:
1) BTW Emmit was not a better back than Willis as far as talent
2) Willis is bigger, faster and stronger than Emmit with just as good if not better jukes and stiff arms. If you were to alter time and space and drop Willis in the backfeild on those Cowboy teams and send Emmit to Buffalo and here the last 2 years, and I think they would swap stats.
3) I know he was a stud but he was never all that spectacular. He was what Willis has not been, consistant, but I do not equate durable with great talent.

Nothing you said there is the same as the quote above. Many runners at their best compare with Emmitt's average if you remove Emmitt's top three seasons. You can pretty much say that about all of the all time great rushers...take out their top three seasons, average the rest, and they look great. Take any good RB's best season and it will often compare favorably with this. So what? That doesn't even come CLOSE to meaning that back has the same talent as an all-time great.

I know your position. You don't have to explain it further to me. It's just an asanine position to take.



In the future. I am not talking about what Willis has done, I am talkng about what I, alone think he can and will do this year as a goal I am setting his production at 1,400 yards, 14 tds and 4.5 to 5ypc.

If you like you can set the odds of this happening at 0% like you tend to do, but time will tell. I am setting it at about a 25% long shot at this rate but am willing to roll the dice on Willis again, because like I said, in my OPINION, he is a top 5 talent when on top of his game (able to practice) and close to 100% healthy.

Before you respond you need to watch Big Pat's youtube Willis tribute video if you forgot what he can do when he is healthy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Upn-OMpAI

I do not know if he will ever recapture what he once had, but you have a short and selective memory if you seriously doubt the talent. Or bad eyes.

1) If you were to offer me 1 to 3 odds on his not having 1,400 yards, 14 TDs and 4.5+ YPC, I would bet as much as you would allow me to bet (assuming I had faith you would pay it out). I would bet my house, my cars, my kids and my wife on that.

After five years in the NFL never coming CLOSE to that production, he's magically going to have it all come together at once?
Best season in yards, he's more than 10% short.
Best season in TDs, he's 7% short.
Best season in YPC, he's 9% short.
Never had a season that he's less than 20% short on two of the three categories.

30 to 1 is probably a more fair price.

2) I don't need to watch a highlight reel. That's as relevant as my compiling a lowlight reel for you. Who cares? So he has some talent. BFD. A lot of guys have talent, and turn out to suck. Vince Young has talent. David Carr has talent. Cedrick Benson has talent.

Emmitt Smith had talent too. The difference is, he had more of it, and used it far more consistently than almost everyone else.

3) Just cause a guy has an awesome season for one or two years doesn't mean he's got as much talent as an all-time great. Something you have clearly a very poor understanding of is the concept of "statistical outliers" and variance. Lee Evans once had a 1,300 yard and 9 TD season. This doesn't mean that he has the same talent as Jerry Rice, who averaged 1,150 yards and 9.8 TDs. It means he dramatically overperformed his actual talent level.

This is the same as sitting down at a blackjack table in Vegas with $100 and walking away with $250. A person does not perform at their average talent level, the same as the cards do not come out on average every time. Even more simply, flip a coin several times in a row. It doesn't come heads, tails, heads, tails, heads, tails, etc.

So is it possible McGahee rushes for 1,400, 14, and 4.5? Of course. I'd be an idiot to suggest otherwise, and I've never said something possible was 0% to happen. Is it possible McGahee rushes for 1,800, 20, and 5? Of course. But it's also possible for Ray Rice to do it. And pretty much everyone else in the NFL to do it. Cause statistical outliers happen. Jamal's 2,000 yard season compared to the avg of the rest of his seasons was 80% better in total yards, 120% better in TDs, and 30% better in YPC...insane numbers. It happens, it's moronic to suggest it couldn't.

4) Just saying "if he's able to avoid injuries" is nice, but simply not realistic. He's missed time due to injury each of his last three seasons, and isn't getting younger. I haven't heard that he's doing everything he can to get his body into shape this year that makes me think he's any less likely to avoid injury than he has in the past. And he plays in what is likely the most injury-prone position in the sport.

Your 1,400 yards translates to ~20 carries per game every game at 4.5 YPC. You really think that's 25%?

You really think he actually has as much talent as Emmitt Smith?

The thing is, people here might actually respect what you say if you weren't so absolutely ludicrous with your statements. You think I care that you think I'm a big meanie? Aww...poor Jeremiah..... I can't BELIEVE anyone would attack a guy who thinks
- Peppers probably wants to come to Baltimore, not based on anything, but just because, and that we could possibly wind up with him;
- Mark Clayton is a great receiver waiting to happen;
- Gaither is as big a draft steal with a 5th round eq as Tom Brady in the 6th;
- Willis McGahee has as much or more talent than Emmitt Smith;
etc...

Yeah, I'm really, really sorry I blast your arguments for the ridiculous drivel they are...

:261695:

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

I haven't twisted anything you've said. Case in point.....



Ah-heh-hem...

QUOTE:
1) BTW Emmit was not a better back than Willis as far as talent
2) Willis is bigger, faster and stronger than Emmit with just as good if not better jukes and stiff arms. If you were to alter time and space and drop Willis in the backfeild on those Cowboy teams and send Emmit to Buffalo and here the last 2 years, and I think they would swap stats.
3) I know he was a stud but he was never all that spectacular. He was what Willis has not been, consistant, but I do not equate durable with great talent.

Nothing you said there is the same as the quote above. Many runners at their best compare with Emmitt's average if you remove Emmitt's top three seasons. You can pretty much say that about all of the all time great rushers...take out their top three seasons, average the rest, and they look great. Take any good RB's best season and it will often compare favorably with this. So what? That doesn't even come CLOSE to meaning that back has the same talent as an all-time great.

I know your position. You don't have to explain it further to me. It's just an asanine position to take.




1) If you were to offer me 1 to 3 odds on his not having 1,400 yards, 14 TDs and 4.5+ YPC, I would bet as much as you would allow me to bet (assuming I had faith you would pay it out). I would bet my house, my cars, my kids and my wife on that.

After five years in the NFL never coming CLOSE to that production, he's magically going to have it all come together at once?
Best season in yards, he's more than 10% short.
Best season in TDs, he's 7% short.
Best season in YPC, he's 9% short.
Never had a season that he's less than 20% short on two of the three categories.

30 to 1 is probably a more fair price.

2) I don't need to watch a highlight reel. That's as relevant as my compiling a lowlight reel for you. Who cares? So he has some talent. BFD. A lot of guys have talent, and turn out to suck. Vince Young has talent. David Carr has talent. Cedrick Benson has talent.

Emmitt Smith had talent too. The difference is, he had more of it, and used it far more consistently than almost everyone else.

3) Just cause a guy has an awesome season for one or two years doesn't mean he's got as much talent as an all-time great. Something you have clearly a very poor understanding of is the concept of "statistical outliers" and variance. Lee Evans once had a 1,300 yard and 9 TD season. This doesn't mean that he has the same talent as Jerry Rice, who averaged 1,150 yards and 9.8 TDs. It means he dramatically overperformed his actual talent level.

This is the same as sitting down at a blackjack table in Vegas with $100 and walking away with $250. A person does not perform at their average talent level, the same as the cards do not come out on average every time. Even more simply, flip a coin several times in a row. It doesn't come heads, tails, heads, tails, heads, tails, etc.

So is it possible McGahee rushes for 1,400, 14, and 4.5? Of course. I'd be an idiot to suggest otherwise, and I've never said something possible was 0% to happen. Is it possible McGahee rushes for 1,800, 20, and 5? Of course. But it's also possible for Ray Rice to do it. And pretty much everyone else in the NFL to do it. Cause statistical outliers happen. Jamal's 2,000 yard season compared to the avg of the rest of his seasons was 80% better in total yards, 120% better in TDs, and 30% better in YPC...insane numbers. It happens, it's moronic to suggest it couldn't.

4) Just saying "if he's able to avoid injuries" is nice, but simply not realistic. He's missed time due to injury each of his last three seasons, and isn't getting younger. I haven't heard that he's doing everything he can to get his body into shape this year that makes me think he's any less likely to avoid injury than he has in the past. And he plays in what is likely the most injury-prone position in the sport.

Your 1,400 yards translates to ~20 carries per game every game at 4.5 YPC. You really think that's 25%?

You really think he actually has as much talent as Emmitt Smith?

The thing is, people here might actually respect what you say if you weren't so absolutely ludicrous with your statements. You think I care that you think I'm a big meanie? Aww...poor Jeremiah..... I can't BELIEVE anyone would attack a guy who thinks
- Peppers probably wants to come to Baltimore, not based on anything, but just because, and that we could possibly wind up with him;
- Mark Clayton is a great receiver waiting to happen;
- Gaither is as big a draft steal with a 5th round eq as Tom Brady in the 6th;
- Willis McGahee has as much or more talent than Emmitt Smith;
etc...

Yeah, I'm really, really sorry I blast your arguments for the ridiculous drivel they are...

:261695:

- C -

I do not really care that you have to argue like a jerk just becasue you disagree or can not see, but it would be better if you just stick to the opinions and relax on the personal attacks. I enjoy it either way, but find your style jerky for no real reason.

I also am not sure what kind of guy would bet his wife and kids that something there is at least a chance of happening. Without putting to much thought into it is safe to say it is more than 1% and less than 25%, but football is not just a random roll of the dice. There are a lot of factors leading to any of the opinions I put out there, and as long as they are possible I do not mind flaoting them out there and getting feedbak even in the form of well worded drivel.

The Peppers thing is still way up in the air and the Pats as the one and only or most likley landing spot has changed some. So has the need for a pass rusher with the drafting of Freddy Kruger and the rotation of young rushers like McClain, Barnes and Edgar Jones getting snaps. I still think if he can be got he should be, but the Panthers seem to be digging in for a long hold out even though they are publicly begging him to come in for camp though Beason interviews. All I know about the situation is that it is up in the air, Peppers is a beast, and the Ravens could always use a player like that, and are one of a very few teams that make sense, and he has never said on the record if the Ravens are or are not on his list.

Mark Clayton I defended as a "playmaker" when a lot of guys were trying to lable him a bust last year around week 5. I said he was a good draft pick even if he is only a solid #2. I do not remember writing the guy was a great Wr waiting to happen, just that it is way too soon to lable him one way or the other since he has as many good years as bad and he is young, had a lot of OC and Qb issues as well as a number of nagging injuries.

Gaither is a steal along the lines of a Tom Brady. He does not have to be a HOF player to be that. He is a starting LT on a good team and good enough to get franchise tagged one day, and has the talent to become a HOF LT, which is as big money as spot as QB according to pay scale. You like to split a lot of hairs but miss the big picture point. Just becaue I bring up the name of some HOF player, it does not mean the guy I am comparing him to is his equal, just a common point of ref so someone like you that may not understand the details and nuance beyond the numbers can see what I am talking about in a prospect or a guy that has never done what I expect they may be yet able to do.

Talent, once again is different than production. Stop confusing the issue with bad definitions. from what I have seen from Willis at his best, he looks bigger, faster, stronger and better than what I remember Emmit Smith playing, who we agree was an all time great. The Willis I remember from the U, was a sick combination of speed, moves and power along with natural vision and anticipation unlike I had ever seen in person as an adult. He was like a combo of Emmit and Barry bt almost as big as Jamal. Then he had the worst knee injury I ever saw, and was still able to almost get back to what he was before the injury, other than maybe not the top end speed he used to have. Maybe he stays healthy for once and maybe he does not, but this is way too much debate on something we agree is possible.

[B-more Ravor]

Next time any of these guys come up small in a season, let me know.

Except Clayton. Dude needs to get his ass to work. He's not good enough to be skipping these things yet, unless he's just happy being a mediocre to worse-than-average #2 receiver. In that case, oh well.

Unlike McGahee, all the guys on this list (i.e. Clayton) that are underperforming to expectations are not getting paid as though they are top five talent nor coming off a year where they had questions about their work ethics arise. I'm not nearly as concerned with them missing for a Vegas romp...

1. Just to be clear, I wasn't defending McGahee or saying anything about those who didn't post, hence the "FWIW........".

2. That said, the reports of McGahee in Vegas were that he was there "during the holiday weekend" and the camp that he missed was during the following week. So, just because he wasn't at camp during the week does not mean that he missed camp because he was in Vegas partying. He may have actually had a legitimate reason to not at the OTA last week.

That said, if he didn't, then voluntary or not, I would expect that a player who clearly needs to change the overriding perception about himself would understand the importance of being at every OTA.

Or, you would at least think so........ :(

[psuasskicker]

.

Good clarification Ravor, thanks for that...




I do not really care that you have to argue like a jerk just becasue you disagree or can not see, but it would be better if you just stick to the opinions and relax on the personal attacks. I enjoy it either way, but find your style jerky for no real reason.

Nah, I prefer sticking to facts. The non-made up ones, though.


Without putting to much thought into it is safe to say it is more than 1% and less than 25%

I don't think you understand how big of a difference this is. If McGahee plays for ten years, it's the difference between him probably having two or three seasons like that, and being incredibly unlikely to have one. The 30 to 1 odds I set say 3% likely to happen, and frankly I think that's high. Given Rice and McClain will steal carries, I think McGahee's likely to get no more than 250 carries, and probably more like 200. Even if he gets 300, if he has his same 4.0 avg he's seen during the best of his career, he's falling 200 yards short.

You set these random, arbitrary figures and don't seem to grasp how unlikely they are to actually happen. I tried educating you, but it's like talking to a brick wall. So all that's left now is to berate how stupid they sound.


as long as they are possible I do not mind flaoting them out there and getting feedbak even in the form of well worded drivel.

Yes you do. You whine about it constantly...
I do not really care that you have to argue like a jerk just becasue you disagree or can not see
These aren't the words of a guy that wants feedback. They're the words of a guy that is either a troll, or delusional. I've had that conversation with others before and believe you're not a troll. But if you wanted feedback, you'd actually have some constructive conversations and make an effort to learn.

Instead, you throw on your purple shades and either make arbitrary and unverifiable statements (McGahee is bigger, stronger and faster than Emmitt) or you make up facts. You use them to support these asanine positions which to this day you're still arguing.

Give me a reason NOT to berate that? Then maybe I'll stop. Till then, this has just gotten to be too much fun...


The Peppers thing is still way up in the air

LOLOLOLOL


Mark Clayton I defended as a "playmaker" when a lot of guys were trying to lable him a bust last year around week 5. I said he was a good draft pick even if he is only a solid #2. I do not remember writing the guy was a great Wr waiting to happen, just that it is way too soon to lable him one way or the other since he has as many good years as bad and he is young, had a lot of OC and Qb issues as well as a number of nagging injuries.

Um...


I guess my stance is that Boldin in this offense is not for sure that much better than Clayton. Clayton should be able to get 1000 yards on 60 grabs and 7 or 8 TDs, and I do not see Boldin getting a lot more than that in our attack as a possesion reciever.

:eek:

Well, you argued he was as good as Boldin, who I already proved is one of the best in the last decade. And I also already showed that it's not in fact too early to label him one way or the other, and he has never had a "good" year for a starting WR so he hasn't had as many good years as bad, so.....


Gaither is a steal along the lines of a Tom Brady. He does not have to be a HOF player to be that.

Really?

Brady is one of the all-time greats.

Gaither is a starting LT.

Really? You don't get it?


Talent, once again is different than production. Stop confusing the issue with bad definitions. from

Um, I'm not the one confusing things. So McGahee has had some better runs than Emmitt's average run was. Who cares? I can look at about 20 RBs in the NFL right now and at their best runs say "Man, this guy's a beast! If only he ran like that every single carry!"

But they don't. Because they're not as good as they are at their very best, just like they're not as bad as they are at their very worst when they get buried five yards behind the LoS and fumble the ball. I'm also not sure what makes you think if you took a highlight reel of McGahee's and stuck it next to a highlight reel of Emmitt's, that
1) you wouldn't be finished with McGahee's about 5x sooner than Emmitt's, or
2) that McGahee's would be as or even more impressive than Emmitt's...

McGahee's best year so far still doesn't equal Emmitt's average when you take out his best three years.

How you take all this and come up with "Well, when I look at how McGahee runs on those couple highlight plays, I think he's just better than Emmitt" is just beyond me. It makes my brain hurt.

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

.

Good clarification Ravor, thanks for that...





Nah, I prefer sticking to facts. The non-made up ones, though.



I don't think you understand how big of a difference this is. If McGahee plays for ten years, it's the difference between him probably having two or three seasons like that, and being incredibly unlikely to have one. The 30 to 1 odds I set say 3% likely to happen, and frankly I think that's high. Given Rice and McClain will steal carries, I think McGahee's likely to get no more than 250 carries, and probably more like 200. Even if he gets 300, if he has his same 4.0 avg he's seen during the best of his career, he's falling 200 yards short.

You set these random, arbitrary figures and don't seem to grasp how unlikely they are to actually happen. I tried educating you, but it's like talking to a brick wall. So all that's left now is to berate how stupid they sound.



Yes you do. You whine about it constantly...
I do not really care that you have to argue like a jerk just becasue you disagree or can not see
These aren't the words of a guy that wants feedback. They're the words of a guy that is either a troll, or delusional. I've had that conversation with others before and believe you're not a troll. But if you wanted feedback, you'd actually have some constructive conversations and make an effort to learn.

Instead, you throw on your purple shades and either make arbitrary and unverifiable statements (McGahee is bigger, stronger and faster than Emmitt) or you make up facts. You use them to support these asanine positions which to this day you're still arguing.

Give me a reason NOT to berate that? Then maybe I'll stop. Till then, this has just gotten to be too much fun...



LOLOLOLOL



Um...



:eek:

Well, you argued he was as good as Boldin, who I already proved is one of the best in the last decade. And I also already showed that it's not in fact too early to label him one way or the other, and he has never had a "good" year for a starting WR so he hasn't had as many good years as bad, so.....



Really?

Brady is one of the all-time greats.

Gaither is a starting LT.

Really? You don't get it?



Um, I'm not the one confusing things. So McGahee has had some better runs than Emmitt's average run was. Who cares? I can look at about 20 RBs in the NFL right now and at their best runs say "Man, this guy's a beast! If only he ran like that every single carry!"

But they don't. Because they're not as good as they are at their very best, just like they're not as bad as they are at their very worst when they get buried five yards behind the LoS and fumble the ball. I'm also not sure what makes you think if you took a highlight reel of McGahee's and stuck it next to a highlight reel of Emmitt's, that
1) you wouldn't be finished with McGahee's about 5x sooner than Emmitt's, or
2) that McGahee's would be as or even more impressive than Emmitt's...

McGahee's best year so far still doesn't equal Emmitt's average when you take out his best three years.

How you take all this and come up with "Well, when I look at how McGahee runs on those couple highlight plays, I think he's just better than Emmitt" is just beyond me. It makes my brain hurt.

- C -

I watched a lot more of both Willis and Emmit that that highlight clip, but one of those pictures is worth 1,000 of your words. I think we agree about how good Emmit was, but you are confusing good with durable. The odds that Willis all of a sudden becomes moe durable may be low, but since this seems to be the first time in a while he has been able to workout during the offseason on a team with a highly ranked rushing attack the year before despite his worst pro production. I think if he plays like he did in 2007, he will have his best season even if only 14 games at that level with the improvement in the other players on this offense.

The main reason I think Willis will have his best season is because I think this will be the best surrounding team he will be on since college.

You seem to go out of your way to disprove my opinions even though I admit most of the time when they are longshots to begin with and then no matter how I spell it out, you can not seem to grasp the concept that the mere mention of a HOF player does not mean I am saying the comparison is his equall, when it comes to accomplishment.

I do not discount the ability of guys who were flash in the pan types that got hurt. Before Willis got hurt he was almost the kind of college back that Bo Jackson was. Thats right I did it again. Since then he has never been quite the same, but has shown enough flashes as recently as the last game last year, to make me think he could still have his best football, by 20% if you have to put a number on it, in him.
Top reasons for optimism
A. Best possible pro O line he has run behind.
B. Best group of backups to keep him fresh.
C. The way he finished the year.
D. He seems to like money and he has a lot on the line.

[baltimore_hokie]

the real question here is if mcgahee's talents can rival julius peppers...both are once-in-a-generation talents....

[effo5231]

You know Hokie, I bet Julius Peppers is a more talented RB than Emmit Smith.

[jonboy79]

Imagine how hard it would be to tackle the guy. And you know he has hands because he played college BBall at UNC...

The real question is, why isn't he a better version of Antonio Gates already. MLS teams should be calling him to play goalie. Heck NHL teams too, imagine how much of the goal he takes up... can he skate?

We know for sure he wouldn't make a good jockey, unless the horse drinks vitamin water.

[effo5231]

Imagine how hard it would be to tackle the guy. And you know he has hands because he played college BBall at UNC...

The real question is, why isn't he a better version of Antonio Gates already. MLS teams should be calling him to play goalie. Heck NHL teams too, imagine how much of the goal he takes up... can he skate?

We know for sure he wouldn't make a good jockey, unless the horse drinks vitamin water.

He'd be a terrible jockey sure.... but I bet he'd make a hell of a race horse!

Screw Mine That Bird... Julius Peppers is the the sure bet for the Belmont!

[psuasskicker]

I watched a lot more of both Willis and Emmit that that highlight clip, but one of those pictures is worth 1,000 of your words. I think we agree about how good Emmit was, but you are confusing good with durable.

I'm not confusing good with durable, you're confusing having talent with producing. Everyone has talent, it doesn't mean you have as much talent as someone else. And talent manifests itself in production. Just cause McGahee has a couple awesome highlights doesn't make him as talented as Emmitt Smith. I could run you a pretty impressive Mark Clayton highlight video. It doesn't mean he's got as much talent as Cris Carter...

Emmitt wasn't simply durable. He didn't become the all time rushing leader by simply playing a long time. He did it by doing things like rushing for over 1,250 yards - McGahee's highest total in a single season - SEVEN times. He rushed for more than 4.1 YPC - McGahee's highest total in a single season - SIX times.

I was in high school when Emmitt was a rookie. I watched him all through HS, all through college, and for a while afterward tearing shit up in this league. All the time I thought he wasn't the best ever. But there was no question I was watching one of them. I've watched quite a bit of McGahee. He's good, yeah. He's got a lot of talent, yeah.

It doesn't touch Emmitt's. It just doesn't.


The main reason I think Willis will have his best season is because I think this will be the best surrounding team he will be on since college.

He could have his best season and still come in way below your expectations.


You seem to go out of your way to disprove my opinions even though I admit most of the time when they are longshots to begin with and then no matter how I spell it out, you can not seem to grasp the concept that the mere mention of a HOF player does not mean I am saying the comparison is his equall, when it comes to accomplishment.

It's not the mere mention of a HoF player. You're putting these guys on the same level with them! Gaither is nowhere near Tom Brady. McGahee is nowhere near Emmitt Smith. Clayton is nowhere near Anquan Boldin. Stop trying to compare them, and I'll stop calling your takes ridiculous.


I do not discount the ability of guys who were flash in the pan types that got hurt. Before Willis got hurt he was almost the kind of college back that Bo Jackson was. Thats right I did it again. Since then he has never been quite the same,

I don't dispute that. McGahee was one of the best college backs of this past decade. So what? I can name a shit-ton of "best of"s in college that weren't anything special in the pros.

"McGahee has never been quite the same" isn't just a fair comparison, cause he went from productive in college to solid but not spectacular in the pros. If he'd had two 1,400+ yard seasons in the pros and then suddenly stopped producing after a huge injury, you could say what you're saying. But he didn't. We'll never know if he'd have been that special if he didn't blow his knee.

His attitude issues don't particularly help the argument that he would have...

- C -

[psuasskicker]

He'd be a terrible jockey sure.... but I bet he'd make a hell of a race horse!

Screw Mine That Bird... Julius Peppers is the the sure bet for the Belmont!

Peppers is bigger, stronger and faster than Mine That Bird...

- C -

[RAVENOUS52]

http://www.codealchemist.com/images/evil-monkey.jpg http://www.theredmonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/fling_poo_stand_clear.jpg

The above illustration pretty much sums up what has been a meaningless thread in the first place.

In other news, Cal Ripken failed to show up for his yearly testicular cancer checkup.... Where's the dedication, Cal?:grbac:

[effo5231]

The above illustration pretty much sums up what has been a meaningless thread in the first place.

In other news, Cal Ripken failed to show up for his yearly testicular cancer checkup.... Where's the dedication, Cal?:grbac:

If its nothing but a shit throwing contest, why comment? Who's more pathetic, people having this conversation, or the guy who disapproves of the conversation but reads it and comments three times about how stupid a conversation this is?

[purplepoe]

http://www.codealchemist.com/images/evil-monkey.jpg http://www.theredmonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/fling_poo_stand_clear.jpg

The above illustration pretty much sums up what has been a meaningless thread in the first place.

In other news, Cal Ripken failed to show up for his yearly testicular cancer checkup.... Where's the dedication, Cal?:grbac:

Harbaugh's terse response to a question about McGahee only reinforces how they view him.

Did you just bring up Cal's name in a discussion about McGahee?

Cmon R52.

PP

[psuasskicker]

If its nothing but a shit throwing contest, why comment? Who's more pathetic, people having this conversation, or the guy who disapproves of the conversation but reads it and comments three times about how stupid a conversation this is?

None of the above.

It's the guy that comments about the guy commenting three times about how stupid the conversation is.

- C -

[RAVENOUS52]

None of the above.

It's the guy that comments about the guy commenting three times about how stupid the conversation is.

- C -

Bingo.:thumbup:

I wasn't gonna address that, but since you did, good on ya!

I'm one of the many maladjusted fucks who actually don't mind repeating myself.

I've actually met, tailgated and hung out with many of the folks here and on numerous other Ravens boards dating back to early 1998, so in many instances, I'm talking to people who I consider extended family.

Poo-flinging will happen and does daily, but this PSU/Jeremiah grudge match, while entertaining at best, isn't worth a topic this lacking in substance.

I'd just like to point that out as many times as possible as long as the poo-flinging (love that term) continues.

Any newbies who attempt to "correct" me will be summarily ignored.:thumbup:

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Going by Harb's comments about McGahee and having him work with the second team shows that the coaching staff once again is not happy with him skipping workouts and not being in shape.

[RAVENOUS52]

I'm not buying that. Willis simply isn't up to speed yet after having offseason work done on his wheels.

Let the preseason be the true judge of where he stands in the pecking order, because, again, Voluntary OTAs mean as much as the Pro Bowl.

[purplepoe]

I'm not buying that. Willis simply isn't up to speed yet after having offseason work done on his wheels.

Let the preseason be the true judge of where he stands in the pecking order, because, again, Voluntary OTAs mean as much as the Pro Bowl.

Did you buy that Harbaugh thought McAlister was a good guy and nothing was going on there?

Does Harbaugh actually have to come out and say Willis is in the doghouse before you believe it?

http://www.profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=33&id=3489&view=archive

OTAs are mean as much as the Pro Bowl?

Really?

PP

[RAVENOUS52]

Did you buy that Harbaugh thought McAlister was a good guy and nothing was going on there?

Does Harbaugh actually have to come out and say Willis is in the doghouse before you believe it?

http://www.profootball24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=33&id=3489&view=archive

OTAs are mean as much as the Pro Bowl?

Really?

PP

Yeah, Harbaugh will have to actually come out and say it before I believe it. McAllister had well documented off the field problems to go along with his injuries.

Voluntary OTAs and "playing" in the Pro Bowl don't count for anything teamwise. Which is why veteran players tend to miss both and not bat an eye.

Ngata missed both this season and I'll gaurantee you it won't negatively affect his game next season one iota.

[purplepoe]

Yeah, Harbaugh will have to actually come out and say it before I believe it. McAllister had well documented off the field problems to go along with his injuries.

Voluntary OTAs and "playing" in the Pro Bowl don't count for anything teamwise. Which is why veteran players tend to miss both and not bat an eye.

Ngata missed both this season and I'll gaurantee you it won't negatively affect his game next season one iota.

The point about Cmac was that even though it was evident that Harbaugh wanted nothing to do with him, he put on a public facade acting like everything was fine.

And it was well documented that McGahee came in out of shape and the team wasn't happy with him last year. Or do you not believe that either?

You really can't read between the lines with this McGahee stuff?

Ngata hasn't shown up to camps out of shape. He missed the OTA while getting his degree.

And honestly, I'm not saying that McGahee missing an OTA will affect his play in September. It does however affect his stature with the coaching staff and that's what we're talking about.

PP

[RAVENOUS52]

The point about Cmac was that even though it was evident that Harbaugh wanted nothing to do with him, he put on a public facade acting like everything was fine.

And it was well documented that McGahee came in out of shape and the team wasn't happy with him last year. Or do you not believe that either?

You really can't read between the lines with this McGahee stuff?

Ngata hasn't shown up to camps out of shape. He missed the OTA while getting his degree.

And honestly, I'm not saying that McGahee missing an OTA will affect his play in September. It does however affect his stature with the coaching staff and that's what we're talking about.

PP

I hear you brother, I just don't think McGahee missing voluntary OTAs is pissing anyone off. Otherwise why would they be asking vets to stay home while they work with the younger players?

I think cats may be overreacting a teensy weensy bit on this one, PP.

[psuasskicker]

I hear you brother, I just don't think McGahee missing voluntary OTAs is pissing anyone off. Otherwise why would they be asking vets to stay home while they work with the younger players?

They asked the 30+ crowd to stay home. McGahee's 28.

You can think it if you want. But the bottom line is, they were pretty pissed at his lack of work ethic last year, and he's not really doing anything so far this year to prove to them he deserves to be thought about differently.

- C -

[effo5231]

Im pretty sure HARB was excited about McGahee in Dallas last year and the POs.

Anyone remember who made that first run over 70 yds?

Anyone remember who had less than 800 yards and a miserable 3.9 ypc?

McGahee's performance at the end of the year was acceptable... but he was shit for most of the year because he was under-conditioned coming into the season.

[RavensDomination]

McGahee's performance at the end of the year was acceptable... but he was shit for most of the year because he was under-conditioned coming into the season.

[sigh] Do you have ANY proof to back this up. Any at all.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

[sigh] Do you have ANY proof to back this up. Any at all.

How about this from the front page...


It's evident that McGahee still needs to prove himself to a coaching staff that grew frustrated with him last season after he admittedly reported to training camp out of shape and promptly hurt his knee.

link (http://ravens24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=33&id=3489&view=archive)

I get the purple shades guys, but come on...where there is this much smoke, there is usually fire. Nobody is saying that we are going to cut McGahee next week or that he is going to be glued to the bench for the season, but it is obvious to anyone who can see clearly that the staff is not happy with him right now...just like they were at this point last year.

[psuasskicker]

Im pretty sure HARB was excited about McGahee in Dallas last year and the POs.

Anyone remember who made that first run over 70 yds?

Yup.

I also remember that game against Indi where he ran for 18 and less than 2.5/carry. And the one against NYG where he turned in the same performance. And how 'bout that Philly match where he ran for 8 at barely over a yard a carry?

I also remember that, including the playoffs, he crossed the 100 yard mark a whopping 3 times last season. In the playoffs, take out that one 48 yard run against Miami, and he averaged 2.8 per carry. Even with it he was under 4/carry.

He was great blocking in the Pitt game. Let's not make him out to have been some sort of awesome RB all of a sudden...he wasn't. You take his final eight games, including the playoffs, of the season and translate it over the course of a full season, he'd have had 688 rushing yards and 8 TDs.

Oh look...that's basically his '08 season!

Not good enough.


I get the purple shades guys, but come on...where there is this much smoke, there is usually fire. Nobody is saying that we are going to cut McGahee next week or that he is going to be glued to the bench for the season, but it is obvious to anyone who can see clearly that the staff is not happy with him right now...just like they were at this point last year.

:word

- C -

[elland]

Yup.

I also remember that game against Indi where he ran for 18 and less than 2.5/carry. And the one against NYG where he turned in the same performance. And how 'bout that Philly match where he ran for 8 at barely over a yard a carry?

I also remember that, including the playoffs, he crossed the 100 yard mark a whopping 3 times last season. In the playoffs, take out that one 48 yard run against Miami, and he averaged 2.8 per carry. Even with it he was under 4/carry.

He was great blocking in the Pitt game. Let's not make him out to have been some sort of awesome RB all of a sudden...he wasn't. You take his final eight games, including the playoffs, of the season and translate it over the course of a full season, he'd have had 688 rushing yards and 8 TDs.

Oh look...that's basically his '08 season!

Not good enough.



:word

- C -
You do repeat this less than 4 yds/game a lot, it was 3,9 in the regular season and in the playoffs.. not 3,7 or 3,6 - And I think when you consider our passinggame, that it is not awfull.. I agree that it is not like a top five RB, more like a top 20-25 RB, personally I would rate him as a top 10-15 RB if healthy.

Taking away his 48 yds? It would be like taking away Rice last and 21th attempt vs Browns (60 yds).. then he would have had a good game not a great game. Or why not take Rice four best attemps away from that 154 yds game and he would have had a weak game 44 yds/17 att. and only one first down. Case is McGahee had a long rush, that is a part of it and taking that away from the stats makes no sense.

I also remember the playoffs, and my conclusion is different I think he performed very good, unlike the regular season RBs did struggle more in the playoffs, so maybe his 3,9 in the playoffs actually is a pretty decent number. Name one RB who played more than one game and who actually played better in the playoffs, I think it would be difficult if not impossible even without my purple eyes.

[RavensDomination]

How about this from the front page...


link (http://ravens24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=33&id=3489&view=archive)

I get the purple shades guys, but come on...where there is this much smoke, there is usually fire. Nobody is saying that we are going to cut McGahee next week or that he is going to be glued to the bench for the season, but it is obvious to anyone who can see clearly that the staff is not happy with him right now...just like they were at this point last year.

I totally agree that McGahee isn't Harbaugh's favorite player on the team. But you read the stuff here and you think its like Jay Cutler vs. Josh McDaniels or something.

Anyway, plenty of players get injured in football, are they all because of their conditioning coming into camp? Not to mention there are plenty of guys that come into camp out of shape every year, plenty. It's just the media (and certain haters) trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, as usual. Gotta have something to argue about I suppose.

[psuasskicker]

You do repeat this less than 4 yds/game a lot, it was 3,9 in the regular season and in the playoffs.. not 3,7 or 3,6 - And I think when you consider our passinggame, that it is not awfull.. I agree that it is not like a top five RB, more like a top 20-25 RB, personally I would rate him as a top 10-15 RB if healthy.

You'd be right that it'd be top 20-25. Except that it's not. It's actually #34. 33 other RBs with over 100 carries had a higher YPA.

In '07, 32 with over 100 had 4+ YPA.

In '06? 31.

So yeah, I think making a big deal out of "under 4" is warranted.


Taking away his 48 yds? It would be like taking away Rice last and 21th attempt vs Browns (60 yds).. then he would have had a good game not a great game. Or why not take Rice four best attemps away from that 154 yds game and he would have had a weak game 44 yds/17 att. and only one first down. Case is McGahee had a long rush, that is a part of it and taking that away from the stats makes no sense.

You're right. He did have that long rush. He also had a 77 yarder in Dallas. But I left both of those in and he was still under 4/carry.


I also remember the playoffs, and my conclusion is different I think he performed very good, unlike the regular season RBs did struggle more in the playoffs, so maybe his 3,9 in the playoffs actually is a pretty decent number. Name one RB who played more than one game and who actually played better in the playoffs, I think it would be difficult if not impossible even without my purple eyes.

LOL...

Of backs that avg over 10 carries in the playoffs, he was #7. He was #8 in yards per game. There's 12 playoff teams.

Better than him? Parker. Edge. B Jacobs. Peterson. Chris Johnson, who ate us alive before he got hurt.

Just cause he played in three games so he had a lot of yards doesn't mean he was actually better than the guys who only played in one game...

- C -

[wickedsolo]

You know fellas, I actually posted up some stuff in a discussion about the most overrated players ever in the NFL and a lot of guys threw around names like Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Herschel Walker, etc.

As crazy as it may sound, I do think that Emmitt Smith might be one of the most overrated players in the NFL. The reason I say that is because of how prolific that offense was in it's entirety. I think you have to compare Emmitt to Barry Sanders as a contemporary of his and if you do, I think that you would find that if Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith switched teams back in the 90's, there is no telling what kind of stats and records Barry would have set and broken. Emmitt on the other hand probably would have dwelled in mediocrity for a few years and then got traded to another team.

Emmitt Smith may be the all time leader in rushing yards, but had it not been for arguably the best OL to ever set foot on a field and arguably one of the most prolific offenses that has ever set foot on a field, there is no doubt in my mind that Emmitt would be considered a good RB and not a great one. It was a perfect recipe and he is lucky to have played on that team for a majority of his career because had he been with the Lions, or Seahawks, or another team during the 90's, he probably wouldn't have been that great. Just good.

Barry Sanders and Thurman Thomas were better RB's than Emmitt Smith was as far as I am concerned.

Sorry to interject that, but considering this thread I thought it might add a different perspective to some arguments.

That said, I don't know how anyone can make much of a case for McGahee at this point. He is a tremendously talented player with no heart, no passion, and no zeal for the game. From my seat he looks like he is more into his own agenda and collecting a paycheck rather than trying to help a team win a championship.

To be frank, I'll be glad when he is no longer a Raven.

[psuasskicker]

You know fellas, I actually posted up some stuff in a discussion about the most overrated players ever in the NFL and a lot of guys threw around names like Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Herschel Walker, etc.

As crazy as it may sound, I do think that Emmitt Smith might be one of the most overrated players in the NFL. The reason I say that is because of how prolific that offense was in it's entirety. I think you have to compare Emmitt to Barry Sanders as a contemporary of his and if you do, I think that you would find that if Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith switched teams back in the 90's, there is no telling what kind of stats and records Barry would have set and broken. Emmitt on the other hand probably would have dwelled in mediocrity for a few years and then got traded to another team.

Emmitt Smith may be the all time leader in rushing yards, but had it not been for arguably the best OL to ever set foot on a field and arguably one of the most prolific offenses that has ever set foot on a field, there is no doubt in my mind that Emmitt would be considered a good RB and not a great one. It was a perfect recipe and he is lucky to have played on that team for a majority of his career because had he been with the Lions, or Seahawks, or another team during the 90's, he probably wouldn't have been that great. Just good.

Barry Sanders and Thurman Thomas were better RB's than Emmitt Smith was as far as I am concerned.

Sorry to interject that, but considering this thread I thought it might add a different perspective to some arguments.

FWIW, I don't think that's much of a different perspective. At least it's not from what I'm arguing.

But I don't think it's right to sell Emmitt as some sort of mediocre back. He wouldn't have just been mediocre in Detroit. It's not fair to say "He was behind the best OL and had a great passing offense; if he didn't, he wouldn't have done all that much."

The problem is, you can make that argument for all of those guys. "Aikman had a HoF WR and RB to help him out. Put him somewhere else and he's just avg."

etc...

Emmitt wasn't just an avg RB. He ran for over 18k yards. You don't stick him on another team and he's suddenly only a 9k career yardage rusher.

This guy had five straight years of 1,484 or more yards. FIVE YEARS of that! Mediocre RBs don't do that. Over a 10 year span, nine of them he ran for 1,200 or more. The guy was simply a really great RB.

- C -

[srobert96]

FWIW, I don't think that's much of a different perspective. At least it's not from what I'm arguing.

But I don't think it's right to sell Emmitt as some sort of mediocre back. He wouldn't have just been mediocre in Detroit. It's not fair to say "He was behind the best OL and had a great passing offense; if he didn't, he wouldn't have done all that much."

The problem is, you can make that argument for all of those guys. "Aikman had a HoF WR and RB to help him out. Put him somewhere else and he's just avg."

etc...

Emmitt wasn't just an avg RB. He ran for over 18k yards. You don't stick him on another team and he's suddenly only a 9k career yardage rusher.

This guy had five straight years of 1,484 or more yards. FIVE YEARS of that! Mediocre RBs don't do that. Over a 10 year span, nine of them he ran for 1,200 or more. The guy was simply a really great RB.

- C -


Emmitt and Aikman played on a Dallas team that had a great Oline. It was pre-salary cap for a good portion of their careers so they were able to keep all of those guys together

Oline during Emmitt Smith's playing days:
Williams 4x pro bowler
Stepnoski 5x Pro Bowler
Newton 6x Pro Bowler
Allen 7x Pro Bowler
Tuinei 2x Pro Bowler

Johnston - 2x
Irvin - 5x
Novacek - 5x

I don't think Emmitt would have sniffed the same success on any other team. That Oline was absolutely absurd.

A good example of how important Oline and scheme are to the RB success is in Denver. They plugged a different 1000 yard rusher year after year. They turned FBs into 1000 yd rushers. Over a 5 year period the Broncos had 4 different running backs eclipse 1000 yds. Portis repeating 1500 yard seasons.

[Jeremiah W]

It was our FB getting 10 TDs and 900 yards not being the feature back every week, that makes me think Willis will have his best year more than anything he has shown recently.

I am confident the O line will create the same holes and the vertical game that emerged late will help keep the SS out of the run bx.

[RAVENOUS52]

It was our FB getting 10 TDs and 900 yards not being the feature back every week, that makes me think Willis will have his best year more than anything he has shown recently.

I am confident the O line will create the same holes and the vertical game that emerged late will help keep the SS out of the run bx.

Willis will be okay and I predict he'll have at least 1,300 yards and 12 TDs this season, provided he remains healthy. He still has elite talent and I have confidence that he'll prove the naysayers wrong.

[psuasskicker]

It was our FB getting 10 TDs and 900 yards not being the feature back every week, that makes me think Willis will have his best year more than anything he has shown recently.

I am confident the O line will create the same holes and the vertical game that emerged late will help keep the SS out of the run bx.

Yeah but that's pretty much exactly why he'll probably only get 200 carries this year...

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

Yeah but that's pretty much exactly why he'll probably only get 200 carries this year...

- C -

With no Lorenzo leading the way, I doubt McClain gets more than 100 carries. He is going to lead block and decoy for both Willis and Rice 200 times, and seems to be playing heavy.

I think he was a very effective feature back, but if he wants to play for 15 years like Lorenzo, he better let the running backs run the ball most of the time. He can still get his 10 TDs with less touches between the 20s.

[wickedsolo]

FWIW, I don't think that's much of a different perspective. At least it's not from what I'm arguing.

But I don't think it's right to sell Emmitt as some sort of mediocre back. He wouldn't have just been mediocre in Detroit. It's not fair to say "He was behind the best OL and had a great passing offense; if he didn't, he wouldn't have done all that much."

The problem is, you can make that argument for all of those guys. "Aikman had a HoF WR and RB to help him out. Put him somewhere else and he's just avg."

etc...

Emmitt wasn't just an avg RB. He ran for over 18k yards. You don't stick him on another team and he's suddenly only a 9k career yardage rusher.

This guy had five straight years of 1,484 or more yards. FIVE YEARS of that! Mediocre RBs don't do that. Over a 10 year span, nine of them he ran for 1,200 or more. The guy was simply a really great RB.

- C -

I disagree. I think that offense was prolific on so many levels that it's unfair and foolish to say that he would still be great on a team like the Lions or something. I'm not saying he wouldn't be good. He was a very good RB, but playing behind that OL and in that offense is what allowed him to be as productive as he was. Barry Sanders played on a shitty team for his entire career with no QB, a terrible OL, and their only other offensive option to speak of was Herman Moore for a few years. Plus, the Lion's defense (other than Robert Porche') was mediocre on a good day. Barry Sanders carried that team.

If you put Barry Sanders on that Cowboy's offense and you would see the greatest RB that ever played the game. Period.

You put Emmitt Smith in that Detroit Lion's offense and you would see a workhorse RB who has some good seasons here and there, but is nothing like what he was with that Cowboy's offense.

I mean, could you imagine Barry Sanders or Thurman Thomas on that Cowboy's offense? Absolutely incredible.

[psuasskicker]

With no Lorenzo leading the way, I doubt McClain gets more than 100 carries. He is going to lead block and decoy for both Willis and Rice 200 times, and seems to be playing heavy.

I think he was a very effective feature back, but if he wants to play for 15 years like Lorenzo, he better let the running backs run the ball most of the time. He can still get his 10 TDs with less touches between the 20s.

McClain doesn't have to get more than 100, even though he'll probably still get a good chunk. Rice will steal carries as well, probably more than the 107 he got last year.

In addition, we're highly unlikely to get 592 carries the way we had last year. We were #1 in total att, 6% higher than the #2 team, who had 560 (Falcons). Only one team in the last five years had as many carries. In fact, the Falcons were the #3 in the last five years. It's likely we have more like 500 carries this year. Let's break that down a bit...

Flacco and Smith will account for some. Flacco had 50+ rushes last year, he'll probably have a similar number this year. Between them and WR rushes, we can say around 75.

Rice will likely have more. 150 seems like a fair number. He'll also probably be our primary 3rd down receiving back.

McClain's number will certainly decline from the 232 he had last year. But I doubt he gets much less than 100. He'll get a majority of the short-yardage and goal-line work even if nothing else. If I had to guess, I'd say he'll get 150, but call it 100 on the conservative side. That's less than 7 per game.

If we rush 500 times, that leaves 175 for McGahee. It's plenty of space to bake conservatism into plenty of the numbers. Call it 50 for QBs/WRs, 200 for Rice and McClain, and we get 525 total and McGahee's still under 300 rushes.

And on top of all that, McGahee's missed time due to injury in the last three seasons. Odds are good that he'll miss a game here or there which would cut into his carries. 300 carries over 16 games is over 18 per game. 18 for him is pretty high ... he's only had 300 carries once in his career. He could avg 20 per game, but only play 14 and he's still under 300 carries.

Very high end numbers for him would likely be 250 carries at 5 YPC. That's 1,250 yards which would be a great season for him. 5 YPC is also more than 20% higher than his highest career avg...fairly unlikely. 250 carries is reasonable, but with two other backs to compete for carries, it's also probably higher than is right to expect.


I disagree. I think that offense was prolific on so many levels that it's unfair and foolish to say that he would still be great on a team like the Lions or something. I'm not saying he wouldn't be good. He was a very good RB, but playing behind that OL and in that offense is what allowed him to be as productive as he was. Barry Sanders played on a shitty team for his entire career with no QB, a terrible OL, and their only other offensive option to speak of was Herman Moore for a few years. Plus, the Lion's defense (other than Robert Porche') was mediocre on a good day. Barry Sanders carried that team.

If you put Barry Sanders on that Cowboy's offense and you would see the greatest RB that ever played the game. Period.

You put Emmitt Smith in that Detroit Lion's offense and you would see a workhorse RB who has some good seasons here and there, but is nothing like what he was with that Cowboy's offense.

I mean, could you imagine Barry Sanders or Thurman Thomas on that Cowboy's offense? Absolutely incredible.

Totally unfair comparison. We have no idea how well he'd do on any of those teams. We can speculate all we want, but Emmitt was a great RB. The Boyz already had one of the all time greats on their team...

- C -

[wickedsolo]

Totally unfair comparison. We have no idea how well he'd do on any of those teams. We can speculate all we want, but Emmitt was a great RB. The Boyz already had one of the all time greats on their team...

- C -

And it's a totally unfair statement to say that Emmitt's success was more a result of his skills rather than a result of arguably one of the greatest offenses ever in the history of the sport.

Emmitt was a very good RB who got lucky by landing on a team with several future HOF'ers that helped pave the way for him to do some great things.

[RAVENOUS52]

I don't think that any number of carries for any of our backs can be set in stone until after the first few games of the season.

If Willis is back to his top performance level or near it, Cam's no fool-- he'll run Willis as far as his legs can take us, just like he did with L-Train last year.

[Jeremiah W]

I don't think that any number of carries for any of our backs can be set in stone until after the first few games of the season.

If Willis is back to his top performance level or near it, Cam's no fool-- he'll run Willis as far as his legs can take us, just like he did with L-Train last year.

That is one thing I really liked about the new coaching staff. they did not seem concerned at all about the prototypical results, or possible shift in the locker room dynamics and fall out when a High profile players feelings are getting stepped on or pushed to the side, the affect that may have on his pride and ego and parameters of trust that a head coach has to have with quarterback or some other young man he may fall in love with while they were wearing shorts, but did not produce when in pads, but you keep putting them back out there to be true to your profile or just to prove a point using parables about persistance and jurice prudence.

[Dave Lap]

I don't think that any number of carries for any of our backs can be set in stone until after the first few games of the season.

If Willis is back to his top performance level or near it, Cam's no fool-- he'll run Willis as far as his legs can take us, just like he did with L-Train last year.

Absolutely. If Willis gets back in form I can see him getting lots of carries. It will be an interesting battle between him and Ray Rice this year. I think that if Willis is playing as well as he can he will edge out Rice- but Rice is a variable that is hard to account for. Will he step it up in his second season now that he has the experience with the offense and has bulked up? Rice could be a very pleasant surprise this year.