OT-Matt Wieters

[bmorebirds_24]

I'm not sure how many O's fans are on here but, Wieters the top prospect comes up Friday to make his major league debut. Anyone excited anyone have any thoughts?


I know how bad the Orioles have been and I am a die hard O's fan but I think it's something to be excited about. Did anyone see the big come from behind win today? With a rookie hitting the game winning walk off....:banana:

[BArellano]

I'm still smiling about that Reimold walk-off. That makes Wieters' call-up even more exciting if you ask me. We're finally starting to see some of the "plan" in action. Rookie walk-off HR today, rookie starter Hernandez's MLB debut tomorrow, and THE rookie's debut Friday. Can't ask for much more. For lack of a less cliche term, it feels like we're finally turning the corner.

[ravenjoe]

Let's also not forget that Harbs will be in attendance at the O's games on both Friday and Sunday. I love it that the Ravens and Os are slowly becoming a 'family' again! Let's not ever forget that Ravens fans are also Os fans, ok Angelos!?

[baltimore_hokie]

good Q&A with wieters:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-q-and-a/2009/267706.html

[RavensInBrazil]

I was a bit bummed earlier on, but then I looked at the retreads we were starting...Our young guys are making me very optimistic, which really wasn't the case a few years ago

[RavensDomination]

World Series.

rack it!

[Rayvens52]

It is a great thing. Even though the season is going as we all thought it would this is the first time in awhile that we have something to be excited about as O's fans!

[awalt]

I'm still smiling about that Reimold walk-off. That makes Wieters' call-up even more exciting if you ask me. We're finally starting to see some of the "plan" in action. Rookie walk-off HR today, rookie starter Hernandez's MLB debut tomorrow, and THE rookie's debut Friday. Can't ask for much more. For lack of a less cliche term, it feels like we're finally turning the corner.

Don't forget rookie debut and win Tuesday night with Jason Berkin, another promising young starter..

[RavensDomination]

And don't forget Hayden Penn, another promising young...err wait nevermind :D

[Losac]

The Reimold walk-off was terrific stuff. That kid looks like the real deal. And you have to be excited about Wieters. I'm thinking we could see close to capacity at the Yard on Friday - Wieters' debut, student night and fireworks night.

Yesterday's game was something they couldn't do all year. 2 separate comebacks, and it's the young guys who are producing.

[RavensNTerps]

And don't forget Hayden Penn, another promising young...err wait nevermind :D

Well he was traded for Robert Andino, who, going 4-5 and getting 3 hits off of Halladay was a huge reason why we were able to win yesterday...

[awalt]

Well he was traded for Robert Andino, who, going 4-5 and getting 3 hits off of Halladay was a huge reason why we were able to win yesterday...
We had no backup SS in the organization, so this was a great trade for us - another Andy McPhail gem. Remember last year the Os played about 93 guys at SS...

Nolan Reimold had another HR yesterday - 5 in his first 14 games in the bigs, and the first Oriole this year to HR in 3 consecutive games!

The Os are only 4 games under .500 right now, and have won 4 in a row against first place (or former first place now with Toronto) teams!

[sdeclue]

I'm so pumped for tonight's game. I'll be down there at Pickles beforehand getting ready for Wieters and Co. This team and organization is really turning around!!

http://www.examiner.com/x-1089-Baltimore-Sports-Examiner~y2009m5d29-A-Friday-night-sellout

[awalt]

Os just sweep the Phillies on the road! Took 2 of 3 from Braves and Mets. They are 9-3 in interleague play.

In June, Os starting pitching is under 3.00!
In the last 18 appearances Os closer has an ERA of 0.50
Nolan Reimold leads all rookies in average, homers, and rbis
Matt Weiters hit .143 in his first 8 games, is hitting .333 in his last 9.

They are still a year maybe 2 away from serious contention, but their young talent of Reimold, Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Bergeson, Berken, Jim Johnson (he's 25!!), Andino are complementing the vets.

And the rest of the minor league prospects continue to do well and get promoted (2008 #1 pick Brian Matusz just got promoted to AA and in his first start went 6 innings, gave up 3 hits, 0 ER, walked 1 and struck out 10). Three other top pitching prospects, Chris Tillman, Troy Patton and Jake Arrieta, are now at AAA. The cavalry is coming!

Phillies just went 1-8 AT HOME against the AL East (Sox, Jays, Os). While the Os have now improved to 5 games under .500, I think a lot of people are learning how strong the AL East is top to bottom. The Os are 1 game over .500 outside the AL East, and yet they are the last place team. The AL East has by far the best record of all the divisions in MLB.

There is a lot to like about the Os these days.

[4G63]

Os just sweep the Phillies on the road! Took 2 of 3 from Braves and Mets. They are 9-3 in interleague play.

In June, Os starting pitching is under 3.00!
In the last 18 appearances Os closer has an ERA of 0.50
Nolan Reimold leads all rookies in average, homers, and rbis
Matt Weiters hit .143 in his first 8 games, is hitting .333 in his last 9.

They are still a year maybe 2 away from serious contention, but their young talent of Reimold, Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Bergeson, Berken, Jim Johnson (he's 25!!), Andino are complementing the vets.

And the rest of the minor league prospects continue to do well and get promoted (2008 #1 pick Brian Matusz just got promoted to AA and in his first start went 6 innings, gave up 3 hits, 0 ER, walked 1 and struck out 10). Three other top pitching prospects, Chris Tillman, Troy Patton and Jake Arrieta, are now at AAA. The cavalry is coming!

Phillies just went 1-8 AT HOME against the AL East (Sox, Jays, Os). While the Os have now improved to 5 games under .500, I think a lot of people are learning how strong the AL East is top to bottom. The Os are 1 game over .500 outside the AL East, and yet they are the last place team. The AL East has by far the best record of all the divisions in MLB.

There is a lot to like about the Os these days.


:iagree:

Well said and all true......these guys are turning the corner and I look forward to watching them now!! Reimold is flying under the radar but will prolly end up as ROY......but he's on the O's so he maybe won't get the love he deserves?

[RavensDomination]

The young talent is a nice change of pace, but I'm anxious to see how the pitching will hold up this summer.

I'm also cautiously optimistic going forward. I want to see what if anything we will do in the off season to bring in the free agents needed for us to compete with the likes of Boston and New York. We need one or two pitchers to compete and Angelos has said in the past he isn't paying some guy 10 million a year who plays once every five days. I feel like we could finish above .500 this year and it will be real interesting to see who really is making decisions when MacPhail is talking about making a move for a big time free agent pitcher. I just remembered, Bedard is going to be available! ;)

[Losac]

Reimold is making a serious case for himself as ROY. I don't really follow the rest of the teams' rookies enough to see who his competition would be. I just have a feeling that the O's record will keep him from getting serious consideration. They usually like players on contenders for these awards.

As for possibly re-signing Bedard - no thanks. The guy is soft. He has no heart. He would ask to be removed from the game the second he felt "winded". There was no competitive "give me the ball, skip" desire from him at all. Plus he seems to be injured all the time, and I remember him happy about being traded and getting out of Bmore. He's a Canadian and has expressed a desire to go back home, so I have a feeling he'll be in Toronto with Halladay next year.

There are some really good arms waiting in the wings - Tillman, Arietta, and Matusz should all be here by next year. Bergesen is looking REALLY good, and you have Hernandez and Berken showing promise. The free agent money should be spent on bats. Either re-sign Huff or someone else to play first, and a replacement for Mora at third.

[baltimore_hokie]

his mentality is to grow the pitching the buy the bats. once all of our young studs are ready to move up to the majors and compete, i can see us bringing in a few free agent bats.

[Losac]

Oh, and if Dave Trembley is reading this, please please please stop trying to hit and run!!! So sick of seeing them try to execute it, the batter swinging and missing, and then the base runner STOPPING and trying to run back to first.

Earl Weaver hated the hit and run and claimed to not even have a sign for it, but Trembley seems to live and die by it. I have yet to see them execute it successfully once this year though.

[purplepoe]

Oh, and if Dave Trembley is reading this, please please please stop trying to hit and run!!! So sick of seeing them try to execute it, the batter swinging and missing, and then the base runner STOPPING and trying to run back to first.

Earl Weaver hated the hit and run and claimed to not even have a sign for it, but Trembley seems to live and die by it. I have yet to see them execute it successfully once this year though.

Trembley is a bad manager.

I went up to the game on Saturday and it was the most fun I've had watching the O's in years.

Regarding the future. IMO McPhail must go out and get a FA pitcher even though we have the young arms in the pipeline. There is no stabilizing force in the rotation right now and I don't wanna ride all rookies and/or 2nd year guys. The payroll is very manageable right now and will be with the young guys on the team. No huge deals will be needed with in house guys for at least a 2 years. Baez's and Walker's contracts are gone and although they just paid over 100 million for Markakis and Roberts, the team has the cash flow to make moves they want.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Huff. Do they deal him and get a nice haul and then try to sign him in the offseason? It's a risk. Keeping him and not re-signing him means they will at least get some sandwich draft picks.

Deal Baez if possible and listen to offers for Guthrie IMO.

PP

[awalt]

As someone else said McPhail is very against paying a marquee pitcher in free agency. He says the facts prove it's way too risky. That's why you stockpile your own pitching, so you have some stars develop, you have some to trade for other prospects (since everyone needs pitching), and then you sign FA position players. A guy who plays every day is much more worth the money according to McPhail.

And IMHO Trembley is just the kind of manager a young team needs. The players love him, and are willing to play hard for him. This weekend, he won Saturday's game resting three starters, and he won Sunday's game resting 2 starters. He tries very hard to keep the team fresh even when he takes flak for it. People trash him because this diodn't work or that didn't work, but if you don't try things constantly you become predictable and easy to play against.

Just knowing the Os may try a hit and run changes things for the defense. They can't assume it won't work. Every time now an Oriole just FAKES a bunt, the third baseman is on the grass the rest of the AB. That has gotten us some hits as the ball goes by him. Outfielders make quick throws because they think the Os will stretch a hit. Much more...

It's easy for a fan to say "that doesn't work" after the fact, but a lot of small things the Orioles are doing are working very well. The difference between the Os and Phillies was huge in the little things that win ballgames this weekend.

[octscotts]

Went up to game yesterday and I agree about the hit & run. Adam Jones putting on the brakes between 1st and 2nd could have easily ended up in an injury. Luke Scott had no chance of making contact with that ball. Just glad it didn't end up costing us the game.

[purplepoe]

As someone else said McPhail is very against paying a marquee pitcher in free agency. He says the facts prove it's way too risky. That's why you stockpile your own pitching, so you have some stars develop, you have some to trade for other prospects (since everyone needs pitching), and then you sign FA position players. A guy who plays every day is much more worth the money according to McPhail.

And IMHO Trembley is just the kind of manager a young team needs. The players love him, and are willing to play hard for him. This weekend, he won Saturday's game resting three starters, and he won Sunday's game resting 2 starters. He tries very hard to keep the team fresh even when he takes flak for it. People trash him because this diodn't work or that didn't work, but if you don't try things constantly you become predictable and easy to play against.

Just knowing the Os may try a hit and run changes things for the defense. They can't assume it won't work. Every time now an Oriole just FAKES a bunt, the third baseman is on the grass the rest of the AB. That has gotten us some hits as the ball goes by him. Outfielders make quick throws because they think the Os will stretch a hit. Much more...

It's easy for a fan to say "that doesn't work" after the fact, but a lot of small things the Orioles are doing are working very well. The difference between the Os and Phillies was huge in the little things that win ballgames this weekend.

I don't see this team giving it all for Trembley at all. Did you watch that west coast swing in Seattle and Oakland? If anything they are far too inconsistent with their desire and hard play.

This team dogs it quite a bit. Jones almost got nailed at first base yesterday from the outfield on an RBI single. Roberts loafs WAY too much and I don't see anyone calling him out within the clubhouse. The baserunning is flat out atrocious. I'll put some of that blame on Samuel and Shelby too. I've never seen a team with some many baserunning blunders. Mora did it again yesterday. As a whole, this team is by far in the red for the season when it comes to the little things. Where's the accountability? And I dunno where you get the idea that players love him. I don't see his rotation of the lineup as keeping guys fresh. I see it as appeasing vets. Explain to me why Luke Scott started both Saturday and Sunday vs lefties? Makes zero sense.

It's not about trashing him because this didn't work or that didn't work. It's about analyzing his managing as a whole and disagreeing with the complete approach.

Quite frankly I believe McPhails views Trembley as a bridge manager and not much more.

And I'm not saying spend 100 million on a pitcher but to ignore FA pitchers is not wise IMO. McPhail knows what he's doing and I believe if there is a FA starter out there for the right price, he'll pull the trigger.

PP

[RavensDomination]

Quite frankly I believe McPhails views Trembley as a bridge manager and not much more.

And I'm not saying spend 100 million on a pitcher but to ignore FA pitchers is not wise IMO. McPhail knows what he's doing and I believe if there is a FA starter out there for the right price, he'll pull the trigger.

PP

Agree on both points, Trembley isn't the long term answer, and it would be silly to rule out a free agent pitcher.

[Losac]

The baserunning is flat out atrocious. I'll put some of that blame on Samuel and Shelby too. I've never seen a team with some many baserunning blunders. Mora did it again yesterday. As a whole, this team is by far in the red for the season when it comes to the little things. Where's the accountability? And I dunno where you get the idea that players love him. I don't see his rotation of the lineup as keeping guys fresh. I see it as appeasing vets. Explain to me why Luke Scott started both Saturday and Sunday vs lefties? Makes zero sense.


I agree wholeheartedly about the base running. I mean, I have never seen so many occurrences where a base runner stops in mid-steal attempt and tries to go back to the original base. Mora has done it several times, and Jones again yesterday. You basically have zero-shot of making it if you do this, so why not at least TRY to go all out for second - at lease you have a chance. No idea why it seems as if the coaches aren't addressing this.

Mora should be horse-whipped for trying to go from first to third yesterday. They tell you in little league never make the first or last out of an inning at third base. Mora seems to do it all the time.

[baltimore_hokie]

Agree on both points, Trembley isn't the long term answer, and it would be silly to rule out a free agent pitcher.

haha dude, why the hell would we go after a FA pitcher? is there any pitcher in the world that would put us in the hunt with the red sox and yankees? uhh, no sir. we are in the midst of a rebuilding process and will not compete until probably 2010 or 2011. spending money now and bringing in guys to win 3 more games makes absolutely no sense. getting rid of guys that won't be productive in a few years when we will be contending in return for prospects that will peak around that time, on the other hand, makes a hell of alot of sense.

[purplepoe]

haha dude, why the hell would we go after a FA pitcher? is there any pitcher in the world that would put us in the hunt with the red sox and yankees? uhh, no sir. we are in the midst of a rebuilding process and will not compete until probably 2010 or 2011. spending money now and bringing in guys to win 3 more games makes absolutely no sense. getting rid of guys that won't be productive in a few years when we will be contending in return for prospects that will peak around that time, on the other hand, makes a hell of alot of sense.

This is what I don't get.

How long are you gonna hold onto the "rebuilding" and not be proactive in all facets of acquiring players.

Anyone really believe all the young guys are gonna pan out. They won't. It's just the law of averages.

And you just said the rebuilding process won't be complete till 2010 or 2011. 2010 is 100 games away.

You cannot keep trading away and trading away forever. It's what the Pirates keep doing.

Eventually you acquire and think about winning games. This team can hit and with Reimold and Wieters now everyday players, the pieces are in place.

We've got a hell of alot of talent on the farm but that shouldn't preclude McPhail from addressing the rotation anyway he can.

PP

[baltimore_hokie]

This is what I don't get.

How long are you gonna hold onto the "rebuilding" and not be proactive in all facets of acquiring players.

Anyone really believe all the young guys are gonna pan out. They won't. It's just the law of averages.

And you just said the rebuilding process won't be complete till 2010 or 2011. 2010 is 100 games away.

You cannot keep trading away and trading away forever. It's what the Pirates keep doing.

Eventually you acquire and think about winning games. This team can hit and with Reimold and Wieters now everyday players, the pieces are in place.

We've got a hell of alot of talent on the farm but that shouldn't preclude McPhail from addressing the rotation anyway he can.

PP

the pitching is not in place, top to bottom of the rotation. that will come along in the next couple years to compliment the bats, but one pitcher can not make enough of a difference right now. if we go out and get two studs, then maybe. but i dont see that happening, so we will have to wait until this group of guys get up to the majors and possibly add a few bats at that point.

[purplepoe]

the pitching is not in place, top to bottom of the rotation. that will come along in the next couple years to compliment the bats, but one pitcher can not make enough of a difference right now. if we go out and get two studs, then maybe. but i dont see that happening, so we will have to wait until this group of guys get up to the majors and possibly add a few bats at that point.

You keep saying "right now". Do you mean that literally? Because I'm talking about the offseason, not acquiring a player right now.

You're gonna see another of the stud SPs up before this season ends and a bunch of them compete for a spot in the rotation next season.

Just for shits and giggles let's say they re-sign Huff and keep him as a cog in the middle of the lineup.

Basically you're whole lineup is set except third base. I believe McPhail is gonna address that through FA. Mora has a $1 million buyout. There really isn't anyone in the system now that's remotely ready to play in the majors now (Rowell is in the OF now). I'd love to see a guy like Chone Figgins come in but who knows.

You keep saying one pitcher isn't enough. I say it can have a huge effect and would go a long way as an addition to the young guys. If they decide to keep Guthrie it knocks him down a peg in the rotation which is a good thing IMO.

We can't keep putting things off "for the future" forever. And each year we stay in the rebuilding stage is another year of the offensive guys getting older (Roberts specifically and Huff if he sticks around).

PP

[baltimore_hokie]

You keep saying "right now". Do you mean that literally? Because I'm talking about the offseason, not acquiring a player right now.

You're gonna see another of the stud SPs up before this season ends and a bunch of them compete for a spot in the rotation next season.

Just for shits and giggles let's say they re-sign Huff and keep him as a cog in the middle of the lineup.

Basically you're whole lineup is set except third base. I believe McPhail is gonna address that through FA. Mora has a $1 million buyout. There really isn't anyone in the system now that's remotely ready to play in the majors now (Rowell is in the OF now). I'd love to see a guy like Chone Figgins come in but who knows.

You keep saying one pitcher isn't enough. I say it can have a huge effect and would go a long way as an addition to the young guys. If they decide to keep Guthrie it knocks him down a peg in the rotation which is a good thing IMO.

We can't keep putting things off "for the future" forever. And each year we stay in the rebuilding stage is another year of the offensive guys getting older (Roberts specifically and Huff if he sticks around).

PP

yeah, but mcphail just isn't keen on the idea of buying arms though. it may help, but it proves to not be the best idea to get pitchers in FA. i still don't think this team has a chance to compete in the best division in baseball until 2 or 3 pitchers are replaced in our rotation, which will not happen for a year or two. making a splash for a big 3B guy to cover up our pitching may put us in the hunt, but i just don't see a FA SP signing happening.

[purplepoe]

yeah, but mcphail just isn't keen on the idea of buying arms though. it may help, but it proves to not be the best idea to get pitchers in FA. i still don't think this team has a chance to compete in the best division in baseball until 2 or 3 pitchers are replaced in our rotation, which will not happen for a year or two. making a splash for a big 3B guy to cover up our pitching may put us in the hunt, but i just don't see a FA SP signing happening.

It might and might not. But I don't believe McPhail is just gonna turn a blind eye to acquiring a starter.

I think you agree that Bergeson is in place. Tillman could be up in a month. Both Matusz and Arrieta are moving up in the system. I think those 2 or 3 pitchers you are talking about being in place are pretty damn close right now.

I just came across this article which I thought was fairly objective and on target.

http://cmbl.baseball.cbssports.com/news/11868161

It's got a fantasy spin but I agree with his timetable and view of the starters for the most part.

If 2 of Matusz/Tillman/Arrieta make the team along with Bergy/Guthrie/Hill then I really think adding a SP could be huge. Who knows what Berken and Hernandez do as well. I think Koji's future is in the pen which makes it much stronger IMO.

I guess my point is that we aren't that far away from seeing if these guys have it. Make no mistake, I'm not saying they will compete but I think we're almost at the point where to have to try to see if we can.

PP

[baltimore_hokie]

2010 Projected Free Agents

Third Basemen

There are some pretty big names in this group, topped by Chipper Jones, who has shown he can still rake when healthy. Adrian Beltre will be coming off surgery in 2009 but knows he's playing for a contraact. And Chone Figgins may pick up his stolen base total to show he's still very valuable.

Adrian Beltre

Hank Blalock

Aaron Boone

Geoff Blum

Pedro Feliz

Chone Figgins

Chipper Jones

Mike Lamb

Melvin Mora

Chad Tracy


Starting Pitchers

The class of this group will be John Lackey, who may get an extension during the 2009 campaign. But there is still other strong pitchers out there, including Josh Beckett, Brandon Webb, Rich Haden, Cliff Lee, Brett Myers and Erik Bedard.

Brandon Backe

Miguel Batista

Josh Beckett

Erik Bedard

Jose Contreras

Doug Davis

Justin Duchscherer

Adam Eaton

Kelvim Escobar

Mike Hampton

Rich Harden

Tim Hudson

John Lackey

Cliff Lee

Jason Marquis

Kevin Millwood

Brett Myers

Vicente Padilla

Brad Penny

Joel Pineiro

Jason Schmidt

Jarrod Washburn

Brandon Webb

Todd Wellemeyer

[purplepoe]

2010 Projected Free Agents

Third Basemen

There are some pretty big names in this group, topped by Chipper Jones, who has shown he can still rake when healthy. Adrian Beltre will be coming off surgery in 2009 but knows he's playing for a contraact. And Chone Figgins may pick up his stolen base total to show he's still very valuable.

Adrian Beltre

Hank Blalock

Aaron Boone

Geoff Blum

Pedro Feliz

Chone Figgins

Chipper Jones

Mike Lamb

Melvin Mora

Chad Tracy


Starting Pitchers

The class of this group will be John Lackey, who may get an extension during the 2009 campaign. But there is still other strong pitchers out there, including Josh Beckett, Brandon Webb, Rich Haden, Cliff Lee, Brett Myers and Erik Bedard.

Brandon Backe

Miguel Batista

Josh Beckett

Erik Bedard

Jose Contreras

Doug Davis

Justin Duchscherer

Adam Eaton

Kelvim Escobar

Mike Hampton

Rich Harden

Tim Hudson

John Lackey

Cliff Lee

Jason Marquis

Kevin Millwood

Brett Myers

Vicente Padilla

Brad Penny

Joel Pineiro

Jason Schmidt

Jarrod Washburn

Brandon Webb

Todd Wellemeyer

I say we take a flier on that Eaton guy.

PP

[Losac]

I say we take a flier on that Eaton guy.

PP

:rolling:

He's good from what I hear.

[awalt]

This team dogs it quite a bit. Jones almost got nailed at first base yesterday from the outfield on an RBI single. Roberts loafs WAY too much and I don't see anyone calling him out within the clubhouse. The baserunning is flat out atrocious. I'll put some of that blame on Samuel and Shelby too. I've never seen a team with some many baserunning blunders. Mora did it again yesterday. As a whole, this team is by far in the red for the season when it comes to the little things. Where's the accountability? And I dunno where you get the idea that players love him. I don't see his rotation of the lineup as keeping guys fresh. I see it as appeasing vets. Explain to me why Luke Scott started both Saturday and Sunday vs lefties? Makes zero sense.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone has one.

"Jones almost got nailed" couldn't be further from the truth if you watched the play. What was unique is that the RFer threw to first to TRY and get Jones on the way up the base paths. Jones was watching him all the way, he was FACING him. He was two steps from the bag when the guy started to throw. Jones didn't even accelerate to get there before the throw.

Mora's baserunning out was not a bad call, and the announcer even said the same (who was a former player, coach and manager, but who uninformed fans berate because they know more than him). That took an absolutely perfect throw to beat him, and even then just barely. The CFer was running away from his arm side, which meant the throw would require an extra long stop and turn. We were facing a pitcher who was pretty dominant, 1 run was going to be critical, and expecting to get a run via 3 or 4 hits it would have required when we had two already was a very very very long shot against that pitcher. Mora would die at second base by the percentages.

And as an aside, the way that works in organized ball, Trembley set the tone for the day telling his 3B coach to "be aggressive as it will be a close game and runs will be scarce". It was the 3B coach who, seeing where the ball was, waived Mora over. That extra base call couldn't possibly come from the manager, that's impossible.

When you are going against a tough pitcher, the bad manager sits back and goes station to station the good manager tries to disrupt and make something happen.

As for you don't see his plan keeping guys fresh, just listen to some of the post game interviews, or pre game interviews. He has been saying it since spring training is all.

As for Luke Scott, I think you are uninformed there too. Coming into this series, Luke Scott was hitting .314 against lefties and was one of our best hitters against them all year. He is "only" hitting .291 against righties. He has as many HRs (7) against LHs in 27 games as he has against RHs in 46 games. Luke Scott also has one of the best eyes on the team, another ciritical concern when you are going up against a top flight pitcher like Cole Hamels, who was World Series MVP -- Scott is batting .277 this year after the count gets to 2-2, which is a phenomenal average.

He also played Reimold in RF for the second time this year, as Reimold hits .364 against LHs but he spelled an ice-cold Markakis. IMHO he did a good job moving the lineup around to give the team their best chance against an excellent LH pitcher.

I will add to this that the Os have a winning record against LHs this year for the first time in probably 8 years at least.

It's easy to jump to a conclusion after the fact on a play. Time will tell of course. But there isn't ANYONE in the press, local or national, or in baseball, that even hints that Trembley isn't well thought of. Just critical fans because they team is losing more than it wins and most don't have a clue why.

Any I'll close with this -- McPhail's interview in the past week as relates to Trembley. Basically he says "Here is what I said was important for the manager to do when I got here, and Trembley is doing it." --

"I think what's important to our franchise now...I always go back to that press conference when I first came here. You really want to create an identity and you want to become an organization that stands for something and does things fundamentally sound. The kind of place that becomes more attractive to other players. I think Dave helps us do all those things. That, and trying to create a foundation of talent to build on for the future. Those are the things that are essential to us. Obviously, we want to win as many games in the meantime as we can."

If you have read McPhail's interviews in the past, he is either specific and positive or says nothing. He would not have been this specific if he had concerns about Trembley. Others may have, it is not McPhail's style.

My .02 plus just trying to throw some data into the morass of opinions...

[Losac]

Mora's baserunning out was not a bad call, and the announcer even said the same (who was a former player, coach and manager, but who uninformed fans berate because they know more than him). That took an absolutely perfect throw to beat him, and even then just barely. The CFer was running away from his arm side, which meant the throw would require an extra long stop and turn. We were facing a pitcher who was pretty dominant, 1 run was going to be critical, and expecting to get a run via 3 or 4 hits it would have required when we had two already was a very very very long shot against that pitcher. Mora would die at second base by the percentages.


Hamels had just given up back-to-back hits and was approaching 100 pitches at that point. He would have had 1st and 2nd with no outs. That situation is going to make him sweat and work, elevate his pitch count, and possibly hasten his departure. Instead, he gets a free out at third, and a double play ball later is out of the inning.

Say what you want about being aggressive, it was an unnecessary risk to take at that point as we were starting to get to Hamels.

You say everyone has their opinions, which is true - well mine happens to be that sometimes the Orioles are too aggressive on the base paths and run themselves out of innings. Making the first out of an inning at third base could not be further from fundamentally sound baseball.

It's all moot because we won anyway, but the sloppy base running has cost us in the past and will again in the future if the coaches don't do something about it.

[purplepoe]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone has one.

"Jones almost got nailed" couldn't be further from the truth if you watched the play. What was unique is that the RFer threw to first to TRY and get Jones on the way up the base paths. Jones was watching him all the way, he was FACING him. He was two steps from the bag when the guy started to throw. Jones didn't even accelerate to get there before the throw.

Mora's baserunning out was not a bad call, and the announcer even said the same (who was a former player, coach and manager, but who uninformed fans berate because they know more than him). That took an absolutely perfect throw to beat him, and even then just barely. The CFer was running away from his arm side, which meant the throw would require an extra long stop and turn. We were facing a pitcher who was pretty dominant, 1 run was going to be critical, and expecting to get a run via 3 or 4 hits it would have required when we had two already was a very very very long shot against that pitcher. Mora would die at second base by the percentages.

And as an aside, the way that works in organized ball, Trembley set the tone for the day telling his 3B coach to "be aggressive as it will be a close game and runs will be scarce". It was the 3B coach who, seeing where the ball was, waived Mora over. That extra base call couldn't possibly come from the manager, that's impossible.

When you are going against a tough pitcher, the bad manager sits back and goes station to station the good manager tries to disrupt and make something happen.

As for you don't see his plan keeping guys fresh, just listen to some of the post game interviews, or pre game interviews. He has been saying it since spring training is all.

As for Luke Scott, I think you are uninformed there too. Coming into this series, Luke Scott was hitting .314 against lefties and was one of our best hitters against them all year. He is "only" hitting .291 against righties. He has as many HRs (7) against LHs in 27 games as he has against RHs in 46 games. Luke Scott also has one of the best eyes on the team, another ciritical concern when you are going up against a top flight pitcher like Cole Hamels, who was World Series MVP -- Scott is batting .277 this year after the count gets to 2-2, which is a phenomenal average.

He also played Reimold in RF for the second time this year, as Reimold hits .364 against LHs but he spelled an ice-cold Markakis. IMHO he did a good job moving the lineup around to give the team their best chance against an excellent LH pitcher.

I will add to this that the Os have a winning record against LHs this year for the first time in probably 8 years at least.

It's easy to jump to a conclusion after the fact on a play. Time will tell of course. But there isn't ANYONE in the press, local or national, or in baseball, that even hints that Trembley isn't well thought of. Just critical fans because they team is losing more than it wins and most don't have a clue why.

Any I'll close with this -- McPhail's interview in the past week as relates to Trembley. Basically he says "Here is what I said was important for the manager to do when I got here, and Trembley is doing it." --

"I think what's important to our franchise now...I always go back to that press conference when I first came here. You really want to create an identity and you want to become an organization that stands for something and does things fundamentally sound. The kind of place that becomes more attractive to other players. I think Dave helps us do all those things. That, and trying to create a foundation of talent to build on for the future. Those are the things that are essential to us. Obviously, we want to win as many games in the meantime as we can."

If you have read McPhail's interviews in the past, he is either specific and positive or says nothing. He would not have been this specific if he had concerns about Trembley. Others may have, it is not McPhail's style.

My .02 plus just trying to throw some data into the morass of opinions...

Jones was loafing up the line. In fact, I would argue that a team might of scouted that out and that's why Werth charged so hard and made the throw so quickly. How many times has he fielded a ball like that and just thrown in back into the 2nd baseman? But for some reason he turned on the jets and came up firing. I don't believe he saw Jones just loafing out of the box and made that split second decision. Jones didn't accelerate? Yes, he did. Did you see Trembley's scowl from the dugout after that play?

Buck Martinez is the ONLY person on the sports landscape that agreed with Mora's baserunning blunder. Mora is slow and has had repeated hamstring issues. He has done this numerous times this year. He hesitated at 2nd for some reason as well. Add to the fact that Victorino has a gun and it was a flat out horrible baserunning play. In fact, I heard a few people who are also "experts" call out Buck Martinez for his ridiculous notion that getting nailed at 3rd in a tie game is somehow a good play because it showed aggressiveness. It's too bad we had to have a sugar coating announcer in the booth instead of Jim Palmer who calls it like it really is. Maybe that's a reason old Buck is up in the booth and not in the dugout anymore. Seriously? I can't believe you agree with him because even though I disagree with you on this subject, you seem to be a knowledgeable fan. e There were no outs. If you have 1st and 2nd with no outs, you bunt to advance the runners and have 2nd and 3rd with one out. Instead Mora ran us right out of the inning. And I specifically said that Samuel is a part of the putrid base running. The guy doesn't know when to put up the stop sign. Windmill Juan I like to call him.

If you wanna play Scott on either Saturday or Sunday, fine. The guy is already slumping then he K's twice while leaving on 6 base runners on Saturday night. To comeback with him vs a tougher lefty on Sunday was headscratching and he proceeded to go 0 for 3 striking out horribly all 3 at bats.

You can say "after the fact" or "uninformed" if you'd like but when I'm sitting there scratching my head when he makes weird moves before the result is in, that's not after the fact.

I've probably missed a total of 15 innings this season. This team is undisciplined on the base paths and not all that sound as a whole fundamentally. And that is exactly what Trembley is supposed to be good at. The fundamentals. If you believe they are, so be it.

And I've heard numerous people who report from inside the locker room state that Trembley isn't the most well liked guy. He's not hated or anything like that but I think he's far from a good manager and far from being well liked by everyone.

I certainly hope your statement that most fans don't have a clue why they are losing wasn't directed at me. I'll just leave it at that.

I don't expect McPhail to undermine anyone in the organization. Ever. Time will tell whether McPhail truly feels Trembley is the long term answer at manager for this team.


PP

[purplepoe]

Wow.

Another HUGE baserunning blunder that kills this team.

Great comeback and then to see Wigginton do that is beyond frustrating.

PP

[srobert96]

This is what I don't get.

How long are you gonna hold onto the "rebuilding" and not be proactive in all facets of acquiring players.

Anyone really believe all the young guys are gonna pan out. They won't. It's just the law of averages.

And you just said the rebuilding process won't be complete till 2010 or 2011. 2010 is 100 games away.

You cannot keep trading away and trading away forever. It's what the Pirates keep doing.

Eventually you acquire and think about winning games. This team can hit and with Reimold and Wieters now everyday players, the pieces are in place.

We've got a hell of alot of talent on the farm but that shouldn't preclude McPhail from addressing the rotation anyway he can.

PP

Free Agent Pitchers are very risky. If they are going to sign FA pitcher it would have to be a front of the rotation guy. They have plenty of 3-5 pitchers already. A front of the rotation guy will cost you over 10mil per season for 5 or more years. The deals reached by Sabathia, Burnett and Zito were gigantic. The Orioles cannot afford to make a mistake like the Giants did with Zito. Sabathia has hardly been worth his 161 million dollar contract. Pitchers are too fragile these days. Free Agents want huge long term contracts which they hardly live up to.

Yes the Os are still rebuilding. They may be very good next year but they will still be very young. Jones will be in his 3rd year of starting. Wieters will be in his 2nd year. Reimold 2nd year. The team should really hit its stride in 2011. The end of this year and next year they will be breaking in Arrieta, Tillman and Matusz with an eye on competing in 2011. They may do it a year earlier and be very competitive next year. Spending big bucks on a pitcher is probably not the answer. With Rich Hill, Guthrie and uehara the team is stocked with 3-5 guys.

[purplepoe]

Free Agent Pitchers are very risky. If they are going to sign FA pitcher it would have to be a front of the rotation guy. They have plenty of 3-5 pitchers already. A front of the rotation guy will cost you over 10mil per season for 5 or more years. The deals reached by Sabathia, Burnett and Zito were gigantic. The Orioles cannot afford to make a mistake like the Giants did with Zito. Sabathia has hardly been worth his 161 million dollar contract. Pitchers are too fragile these days. Free Agents want huge long term contracts which they hardly live up to.

Yes the Os are still rebuilding. They may be very good next year but they will still be very young. Jones will be in his 3rd year of starting. Wieters will be in his 2nd year. Reimold 2nd year. The team should really hit its stride in 2011. The end of this year and next year they will be breaking in Arrieta, Tillman and Matusz with an eye on competing in 2011. They may do it a year earlier and be very competitive next year. Spending big bucks on a pitcher is probably not the answer. With Rich Hill, Guthrie and uehara the team is stocked with 3-5 guys.

What is Roberts gonna be like in 2011?

Koji should be in the pen. He would solidify it and open up a spot for one of the young studs.

At some point you've gotta take a risk and get something done.

Each year we throw away as a rebuilding we are seeing some bats get a year older. You re-open holes that are filled now.

I still can't get over the base running though. Wow is it bad.

PP

[Losac]

I still can't get over the base running though. Wow is it bad.


At some point MacPhail is going to have to address this through the coaching. It's obvious that Trembley, Samuel and Shelby are either encouraging this crap, or not doing anything to correct it.

[purplepoe]

At some point MacPhail is going to have to address this through the coaching. It's obvious that Trembley, Samuel and Shelby are either encouraging this crap, or not doing anything to correct it.

Even Peter Schmuck who basically refuses to be critical of this team has said numerous times that this is by far the worst base running team that he has covered in his career. And he's covered some awful teams.

As I layed in bed last night fuming over the loss, I kept asking myself what John Shelby was saying to Wigginton on that play. Nothing? Stay? Go to second?

I dunno what he was saying but it's incredible that this team continually pulls this BS and Trembley needs to SERIOUSLY address it. All I hear is that he "stresses" fundamentals etc.... Well you know what? How about making some serious statements by benching guys who pull this crap. Something.

And then to hear Wigginton say this:

"I knew it was going to take a good throw," Wigginton said. "I obviously wouldn't have [gone] if I knew 100 percent I was going to be out. I gave it a shot, and it backfired."

Good throw? It was a BAD throw and you were still out by 3 feet Ty. Good lord.

PP

[purplepoe]

Well, it only took 1 inning to ruin scoring chances with base running blunders.

Worst I've ever seen.

PP

[Losac]

Worst I've ever seen.


Wait until tomorrow.

[RavensDomination]

I don't know how people can continue to defend Trembley...

[awalt]

Wait until tomorrow.

It's a very young team with a lot of talent, that's fun to watch for the first time in 12 years. They are still going to win only about 75 games and lose close to 90. So mistakes and poor play will happen. To those that are not fair weather fans think back to Nick Markakis in his first 6 months with the Os compared to now. Night and day. Think about guys that had to be on the roster, who did not belong in the major leagues, like Deivi Cruz, Jay Gibbons, Bruce Chen, and Daniel Cabrera. Think about when our prospects were Sidney Ponson, Cabrera, Walter Young, Kurt Ainsworth.

This team is young. It's improving. It has a plan via McPhail even though some don't like it. And I will say expecting to do more than supplement here and there for FAs won't work because we will ALWAYS be beat out for top FAs by NY and Boston.

So enjoy the ride - this team is getting better every year under McPhail. Three years from now we will laugh at some of the people still on the roster in 2009, just like we can look back to 2006 now. But the young pitchers, Wieters, Reimold, Jones, Markakis, etc. are the real deal.

One last thing - it's easy to pick on the Os for a game they should have won, like the first Marlins game. But the Os have won quite a few games they should have lost, and that's a tribute to the coaching. One of the best statistical methods of seeing how a club is doing is the Pythagorean win expectation developed by Bill James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_expectation); while there are several variations of the formula, the Os are at worst 1 game below where they should be, to almost two games ahead. Bill James, somewhat the guru of baseball statistics, also publishes a book on managerial effectiveness, which also points to Trembley not being a bad manager.

So to paint a picture that all that happens is the coaches blow games is grossly inaccurate.

[Losac]

I don't know how people can continue to defend Trembley...

Not to mention the Sun mentions today how Uehara may miss yet another start due to arm fatigue. Despite it being glaringly obvious that Uehara would be a better fit in the bullpen, Trembley and Kranitz keep insisting that he's a starter and they are not even considering moving him to the pen. Nevermind that he can't seem to go more than 6 innings in any start and often talks about how he needs more rest. I guess just pitching the guy until his arm falls off is a better option.

[HoustonRaven]

One of the best statistical methods of seeing how a club is doing is the Pythagorean win expectation developed by Bill James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_expectation); while there are several variations of the formula, the Os are at worst 1 game below where they should be, to almost two games ahead.

An even better way to see how a team is doing is to look at something called "wins and losses".

That may be a novel approach but is a pretty decent indicator.

Even if your rosy mathematical calculation is accurate, that puts them still in last place, 4 games under .500 and 10 games out of first place.

How is that even remotely a defense for Trembley?

[awalt]

An even better way to see how a team is doing is to look at something called "wins and losses".

That may be a novel approach but is a pretty decent indicator.

Even if your rosy mathematical calculation is accurate, that puts them still in last place, 4 games under .500 and 10 games out of first place.

How is that even remotely a defense for Trembley?

Don't start the personal attacks. You don't have to start insulting just because you disagree.

I doubt you could find a baseball professional anywhere who would simply equate wins and losses with the job the manager does. Wins and losses is NOT a decent indicator of the job the manager does. Was Joe Torre a bad manager in 2007 when the Yankees fired him? Was Earl Weaver a bad manager in 1978 when the Orioles disappeared and finished fourth? Is Ozzie Guillen a bad manager now and a good manager when they won the World Series? Ya think just maybe there are some other factors involved?

I think I tried to explain pretty well why I said what I said.

Who is your esteemed opinion is the manager that would have the Orioles competing for first place against the Red Sox this year, with this personnel, since you equate quality of manager with wins and losses? And how do you back that recommendation up with any facts or data that would support it as a reasonable possibility?

[Losac]

I did enjoy Trembley's reaction after last night's game when asked about Felix Pie. It sounds like his rope is running dangerously short and we may finally see the end of the experiment. It's apparent Pie is a bust and with Reimold's development, he isn't needed.

My problem with Trembley has already been mentioned by others. He says he "stresses fundamentals", yet the O's play some of the sloppiest baseball you'll ever see. Constantly failing to execute a hit and run or double steal, getting picked off and thrown out on bone-headed moves trying to stretch a single into a double, costly and timely errors, popping up bunt attempts. And I'll say it again: Trembley has an unhealthy obsession with the hit and run and the Orioles absolutely cannot execute it. It has such a low percentage of success anyway that when a fundamentally unsound team tries it, it's a recipe for disaster.

[HoustonRaven]

awalt,

A disagreement is not a personal attack. Please tell me where I directly insulted you.

Are you really putting Trembley on the same level as Weaver or Torre? Yes, Torre and Weaver are great managers but Trembley has LOOOOONNNGGG way to go get to their level.

Here are facts ....

Torre -- 2195 wins as manager, 5th all time in pro baseball and 4 WS rings.

Weaver -- .583 win percentage and a WS ring

Trembley -- .425 win percentage in two seasons.

In the end of the day, a coach, manager, GM etc are all held accountable for one thing -- WINNING.

You can apply the Pythagorean theorem, nuclear physics and the codex from the DaVinci Code and you still cannot escape this one definitive fact about sports.

Just because there is a dearth of managers out there does not mean we then should or ought to be stuck with Trembley. Look at what the Red Sox did with Francona. He did a pretty bad job managing the Phillies and the Sox went outside the box, landed him on the cheap and now it is paying off in spades.

[awalt]

awalt,

A disagreement is not a personal attack. Please tell me where I directly insulted you.

Are you really putting Trembley on the same level as Weaver or Torre? Yes, Torre and Weaver are great managers but Trembley has LOOOOONNNGGG way to go get to their level.

Here are facts ....

Torre -- 2195 wins as manager, 5th all time in pro baseball and 4 WS rings.

Weaver -- .583 win percentage and a WS ring

Trembley -- .425 win percentage in two seasons.

In the end of the day, a coach, manager, GM etc are all held accountable for one thing -- WINNING.

You can apply the Pythagorean theorem, nuclear physics and the codex from the DaVinci Code and you still cannot escape this one definitive fact about sports.

Just because there is a dearth of managers out there does not mean we then should or ought to be stuck with Trembley. Look at what the Red Sox did with Francona. He did a pretty bad job managing the Phillies and the Sox went outside the box, landed him on the cheap and now it is paying off in spades.

"Your rosy mathematical calculation" is insulting, especially when I doubt you even read it or know anything about it. The man who invented the theorem, Bill James, is considered the most prominent statistical analyst of baseball in the last 25 years. But that doesn't matter if his work conflicts with your opinion, might as well insult his methods. I try to bring some data and sources to the forum to enlighten people, and you just attack and insult offering nothing.

It wasn't even rosy, as it said basically the Orioles win the games they should and lose the games they should, indicating there is not anything unusual going on with regard to a manager winning or losing games they shouldn't. But you lost perspective on what the discussion was.

Cracks like nuclear physics and the DaVinci code are also insulting. Why can't you just say what you think and stop the clever sayings that are only meant to disparage and insult the opinions of someone else? Is the goal here to just chase off anyone who disagrees with your so far poorly communicated opinion that the Orioles manager doesn't know what he is doing?

And, NOTHING in my post compared Trembley to those managers. To refresh your memory, although I realize trying to bring this back on topic is fruitless, you said wins and losses are way to judge the job a manager does. I brought those examples up of managers who many experts would say were very good if not excellent managers, who lost games - proving that wins and losses is not an indicator of a manager's job. You change the topic so you can't be held accountable for the unfounded remarks you make. You just like to argue.

I also asked you to back up your claim when I said:

Who is your esteemed opinion is the manager that would have the Orioles competing for first place against the Red Sox this year, with this personnel, since you equate quality of manager with wins and losses? And how do you back that recommendation up with any facts or data that would support it as a reasonable possibility?

but you ignored that. How come? Is it just about making an argument, looking for a way to "win"? It's a lot easier to just make a baseless claim and then change the subject and insult when someone calls you on it.

I think you just want to fight and argue, a trait I have seen with you in the past.

So I am done. I would really prefer Houston if you put me on ignore, I really don't appreciate your posts as you say nothing and write belittling things like comparing my thoughts to nuclear physics and DaVinci code. I remember the last time you disagreed with something I said, and you said in your esteemed opinion you thought I was some young kid who hadn't been on the board very long. MistaT straightened you out on that uninformed opinion. But you don't learn, you just like to argue and if it means changing the topic, not replying to the question asked, insulting others ideas, well that's ok.

So since you won't ignore me, it's time to go. This thread got stupid in a hurry, there is no value to anyone to read any of this. So for my part of it I apologize to everyone. I won't be posting here again, I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

I'll see you guys in September - maybe. I am done with this forum, I have other places I can voice my opinions and not have to put up with this stuff. Houston, nice job bringing no value to the discussion and chasing someone off. You "win".

[purplepoe]

I did enjoy Trembley's reaction after last night's game when asked about Felix Pie. It sounds like his rope is running dangerously short and we may finally see the end of the experiment. It's apparent Pie is a bust and with Reimold's development, he isn't needed.

My problem with Trembley has already been mentioned by others. He says he "stresses fundamentals", yet the O's play some of the sloppiest baseball you'll ever see. Constantly failing to execute a hit and run or double steal, getting picked off and thrown out on bone-headed moves trying to stretch a single into a double, costly and timely errors, popping up bunt attempts. And I'll say it again: Trembley has an unhealthy obsession with the hit and run and the Orioles absolutely cannot execute it. It has such a low percentage of success anyway that when a fundamentally unsound team tries it, it's a recipe for disaster.

Exactly.

It's not about losing. Anyone who knows this team knew they would lose.

Bad baseball is a whole different animal. It has nothing to do with talent. It has to do with focus and being fundamentally sound.

Once again this year the team is horrible on the base paths and not fundamentally sound.

Has zero to do with subpar talent.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

awalt,

Will you get over yourself? Please?

It's a debate. My word choice of "rosy" spoke to the link and not you. Your link was putting the best spin on an otherwise mediocre (at best) manager. I cannot help it if sentence structure or your assumptions got in the way.

I am not insulting any ones opinions. Nor am I discrediting Mr. James.

All I was pointing out is, in the final analysis if a manager, they are judged by their wins and losses. Yes, baseball has games within the game and there are other factors that go into the wins and loses (see PP's post).

But you cannot mathematically explain away the last determining factor -- wins.

[Losac]

More base-running blunders over the weekend. purplepoe, you'd be proud - Peter Schmuck is finally starting to call the team out over this.

As for Wieters, he had a game to forget yesterday.

[purplepoe]

More base-running blunders over the weekend. purplepoe, you'd be proud - Peter Schmuck is finally starting to call the team out over this.

As for Wieters, he had a game to forget yesterday.

Oh I know. Only took old Peter 3 months. I guess you can only ignore it for so long before everyone has to acknowledge it. Wonder if the manager will ever call out a legit player, not a scrub like Pie.

I'm just getting used to it now.

Just turned the game on. Red Sox up already.

Great.

PP

[baltimore_hokie]

haha, great chain of events in the third inning of the game against the sox tonight. Pedroia walked >> Pedroia stole second >> Pedroia to third on balk

[Losac]

Ugh, I really hate when the Red Sox Bandwagon (refuse to call them Nation) comes to town. Lester owns the Orioles. Just have to hope Smoltz continues to suck tonight and Bergesen can out-duel Beckett on Wednesday.

[Ravenswarrior19]

After much disappointment and lackluster play ... we've got a live one tonight.

After falling behind 10-1 to the redstockings, and a rain delay, the birds have rallied in the 7th and 8th, and now lead 11-10. Lots of clutch hitting.

Hope I didn't just jinx it. Sherrill in to close ...

[Ravenswarrior19]

It got a little iffy for Sherrill (when does it not) but its in the books.

Biggest O's comeback since 1956. We've got some nice looking swings in this line-up. Awesome win.

I will now resume my baseball hibernation.

[xmradiodave]

Well, that taught me not to call it quits early. Went to bed early with the Orioles way behind during the rain delay. Woke up this morning and checked the final score and about toppled out of my seat.

[RavensDomination]

I didn't start watching until the 8th inning! Great game...

[pyite32]

Finally!

Hopefully now the O's will stop rolling over for these idiots.

[FellsPointRaven]

I didn't start watching until the 8th inning! Great game...

Me too - switched it on as something to watch before going to sleep. Ended up nearly rolling the wife out of bed as I punched the air when Sherrill got the final out.

Smiled at a few Red Sox fans as I walked into work this morning. They all looked pretty down. :( ....................:laugh:

They might be 7 games under 500, but they're a lot of fun to watch this year. Cut out the brain farts and develop the young pitching talent and I hope to see plenty more wins over the next few seasons.

[baltimore_hokie]

holy shit, that's all i can say. holy shit.

[pyite32]

Well looks like any momentum they got from last nights game is gone now. They gave up a 5-1 lead and an really strong start by Bergesen in the top of the ninth to go into Extra Innings and now it looks like they are going to lose.

these guys have no heart.

[Losac]

Well looks like any momentum they got from last nights game is gone now. They gave up a 5-1 lead and an really strong start by Bergesen in the top of the ninth to go into Extra Innings and now it looks like they are going to lose.

these guys have no heart.

Dave the Hook strikes again. Bergesen dominating, but whoops, he's at 100 pitches so time for him to go. What a shame because he pitched an amazing game.

So many echoes of the Mother's Day Meltdown here it's almost eerie.

[purplepoe]

Dave the Hook strikes again. Bergesen dominating, but whoops, he's at 100 pitches so time for him to go. What a shame because he pitched an amazing game.

So many echoes of the Mother's Day Meltdown here it's almost eerie.

Unreal.

We got to enjoy last night for less than 24 hours before they rip your heart out.

I can't stand Trembley but I'm sorry, Johnson and Sherrill need to hold a 4 run lead.

Hell, Sherrill comes in a makes Ortiz and Bay look like minor leaguers then can't get ONE out?

Just brutal.

PP

[Mwjergs]

Plenty of blame to go around after blowing a 4 run lead.

Trembley should expect his two top bullpen guys to get three outs to close the game.

But that quick hook is unfortunately found all over the league and the Complete Game is a relic of the past like Double Headers.

[Ravenswarrior19]

I have a quick question.

Were there any post-game quotes from Sox players along the lines of:

"Whew, we couldn't touch that starter. He was on fire all day. Seeing someone else on the mound was really a godsend."

"Bergesen's stuff was amazing today. I know I didn't take a single decent swing. What a breath of fresh air when he got yanked."

Or, the one that I remember (misremember?) from the Mother's Day game.

"As soon as we saw the guy come out of the bullpen, we knew we had a chance. We really rallied around that."