The Bengals in?

[Lee Van Cleef]

A forum that I and a few other UK based Ravens fans frequent has a thread running about the 6 teams in, 6 teams out possibility as regards the play offs this coming season. One suggestion I found strange was that the Bengals would make the cut.

I'm not really interested in "THe Bungles suck!?!?! LOLOLLOLOL" responses, but I am interested to hear what other Ravens fans think about the arguments raised, and the possibilities for one of our division rivals with the offseason they've had.

Original thread here:
http://forum.nfluk.com/showthread.php?t=43455

[psuasskicker]

Their drafts constantly look great cause they take high risk characters that have great talent that other teams let slip cause of the issues. There's a reason those guys tend not to play up to their potential. Anyone remember Chris Henry? And who was their big-time LB...Thurman Thomas? Or someone else? Don't remember.

Their draft this year was full of those guys. Maybe one or two work out, but they're going to one of if not the worst spot in the NFL for themselves. There's no discipline on the team and it's full of bad examples. I'm not hopeful for them.

Palmer's coming off an arm injury and has been progressively getting worse since blowing his ACL. They still have no RB. They lost Housh. Chad OchocincoJohnson is whining like a baby. The only reason their O should improve from last year is cause Palmer is more competent than the other lambs they were throwing out there, but not by a whole lot.

I could maybe see improvement from last year...definitely if Palmer rebounds strong and has a great year (unlikely). But I have a tough time seeing this team doing better than 8-8.

- C -

[HoustonRaven]

This is a kin to two years ago when the Browns looks great on paper and went out laid a nice steaming pile on the field every week.

And the crucial link in that equation that PSU left out was the guy at the top of chain of command -- Marvin Lewis.

He simply is not head coaching material (or, at least, not with this bunch). Every season since their playoff season of 2005 have been losers and the man is not even a .500 coach

[Rxdoxx]

Palmer's kind of knee injury usually take 2 years for the player to play like it didn't happen. Donovan quickly comes to mind.
So I can see them having one of the top QB production.

First IF is Smith, how good will that T be?
Second is replacing Housh... he was a possession receiver which is a big loss, but a loss that can be covered by committee a lot easier that losing the "stretch the field" receiver.

IF Palmer's numbers return, the D will be on the field less which should translate into improved numbers.

So I see it as a possibility.
Tough to have to cross off 6 teams that made it and replace them with 6 that didn't. Bungles have as good or better a shot in the AFC than some teams, but hard to see them overtaking Ravens or Pissb, and seeing them get good enough to be the 3rd team in from a division means they are going to have to pass most of the Texans-Jets-Pats-Chiefs-Titans-Jax.

This early can't rule it out but have to ignore the new arrest notices that we have come to expect, so they wouldn't be on my list.

[purplepoe]

Their drafts constantly look great cause they take high risk characters that have great talent that other teams let slip cause of the issues. There's a reason those guys tend not to play up to their potential. Anyone remember Chris Henry? And who was their big-time LB...Thurman Thomas? Or someone else? Don't remember.

Their draft this year was full of those guys. Maybe one or two work out, but they're going to one of if not the worst spot in the NFL for themselves. There's no discipline on the team and it's full of bad examples. I'm not hopeful for them.

Palmer's coming off an arm injury and has been progressively getting worse since blowing his ACL. They still have no RB. They lost Housh. Chad OchocincoJohnson is whining like a baby. The only reason their O should improve from last year is cause Palmer is more competent than the other lambs they were throwing out there, but not by a whole lot.

I could maybe see improvement from last year...definitely if Palmer rebounds strong and has a great year (unlikely). But I have a tough time seeing this team doing better than 8-8.

- C -

Odell Thurman!

PP

[purplepoe]

This is a kin to two years ago when the Browns looks great on paper and went out laid a nice steaming pile on the field every week.

And the crucial link in that equation that PSU left out was the guy at the top of chain of command -- Marvin Lewis.

He simply is not head coaching material (or, at least, not with this bunch). Every season since their playoff season of 2005 have been losers and the man is not even a .500 coach

It was actually just last year when many "experts" were hyping the Browns as the favorite to win the AFC North.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

It was actually just last year when many "experts" were hyping the Browns as the favorite to win the AFC North.

PP

Ah yes. You are correct. They were fawning over the addition of Stallworth as the one piece they were missing.

[bmorebirds_24]

I have to agree with you Houston, year in and year out so much can change in the NFL. At times the Bengals show a ton of flash and a solid team. Their defense was never great or any good for that matter. But, I think if Palmer can have a really good year, Johnson stops trying to get all the attention and plays with his heart in it, that this team could be a solid team.



How ever another thing to pay attention too is injuies. Two, or three key injuries and that could change the entireyear for a team. Look at the Ravens in "07".



I don't really like to look at the schedule and say this team will win here or that team will win there. I wait for that week to come and go from there, injuries are so key in this league that it is hard to judge in late May.

[Jeremiah W]

The problem with the Bungles, other than they are bungles with Ochostinko they can not shake or wash off, is they never have a net gain in the offseason no matter how well they draft. Andre Smith in, Levi Jones out. Ponytail parts ways so Coles is not a gain. The O line lost Andrews who is most likley going to be as effective as a rookie Andre Smith at RT, and on D they may have been ranked #12 but they were not the 12th best defense in football, more like 20 something but because the O was so incredibly stinko, even during the first 4 games before Palmer got hurt, the D was never exposed in shootout kind of games like years past.

Palmer is a good QB, they have a handfull of solid players who would start for us, but they have so many headaches and holes, I do not see why they would make the playoffs over some AFC E or S team.

They are stuck behind both the Steelers and Ravens, and are not even better than the Browns. The entire division gets a softer schedule this year so they should be back to 7-9 or 8-8, but it will take all the other teams getting the best players injured like what happend in 2007 when the Clowns won 10 games, for the Bungles to be in the playoffs. I still just do not think they could do it because of how weak the backup type players tend to be for them. They can get away with the drafting names in the first 3 rounds, but criminal charichters they tend to take chances on in later rounds do not tend to be ready to play key roles late in the season.

[sailorsam]

don't see Cinci in the playoffs this season, mostly too much competition.

figure the Chargers to take the AFCW, and the Cheatriots the AFCE. Indy or Tenn will take the AFCS and probably one wild card. At this point you have to like Stoolers and Ravens to take the AFCN and the other wildcard. Miami and the Jets are also WC candidates.

Cinci will have to take advantage of weaker sched (which only applies to, what, 2 games?) and hope somebody stumbles (hopefully Pigsburgh). I can see them winning 8-9 games (no better than 3-3 in division, if that) and missing the postseason. New England won, what, 11 games last year and no playoffs? Brownies won 10 the year before and got bupkiss (sp?).

[52decleetzu]

Dont know about playoffs,but the Bungles will definitely be competitive.

They had bar none one of the best drafts I have seen in the last 5 years from top to bottom,and their first 3 picks should start right away,and the next 2 will be significant contributors this year.

Palmer is back,and the defense is up and coming.

I wouldnt overlook them at all.

[Dave Lap]

One thing I didn't and still don't, understand about the Bengals last season was why their passing game was so poor, given the talent on the field.

I can understand why their running game was mediocre and why their defense sucked.

I'm guessing Palmers knee recovery was not complete. That Chad Johnson gave up, a little, knowing that the team wasn't going to compete.

If Palmer is in better shape this year and IF Johnson shows that he's ready to go all out than I can see them having a better year than last year.

How much better? They can be a top passing offense when all cylinders are clicking but that's not enough to put them in contention for a playoff berth, even if their recent draft picks and free agents pan out. It will take a year at least for their rookies to get enough experience to really contribute.

[Jeremiah W]

One thing I didn't and still don't, understand about the Bengals last season was why their passing game was so poor, given the talent on the field.

I can understand why their running game was mediocre and why their defense sucked.

I'm guessing Palmers knee recovery was not complete. That Chad Johnson gave up, a little, knowing that the team wasn't going to compete.

If Palmer is in better shape this year and IF Johnson shows that he's ready to go all out than I can see them having a better year than last year.

How much better? They can be a top passing offense when all cylinders are clicking but that's not enough to put them in contention for a playoff berth, even if their recent draft picks and free agents pan out. It will take a year at least for their rookies to get enough experience to really contribute.

they could not pas because they could not run. Th protection broke down too fast and they were not fooling anyone with play action. The WRs were unable to get open through press coverage and cover 3 help, and no TE or real dangerous back in the flats or over the middle to single them up. Even Palmer gets happy feet when his first 2 reads are not open and he is going to get hit even if he finds #3.

They also were in a lot less shootouts so teams were not tired or playing soft coverages. Take away both outside WRs and dare them to run the ball or throw over the middle to someone else and they did not have much to offer.

The Bungle D was also not that good, but because they faced a lot of 4th quarter grind out the clock drives instead of throw for 2 Tds to beat them in the 4th quarter type games, the D did not surrender many yards, but when did they ever get pressure or get key stops. They ran a fumble back for a TD against us but other than that just got ran over like a small speed bump all day in both games.

[Dave Lap]

That's a logical explanation and that may well be part of it, but the years when they had good passing production they were still an average (if that) running team.

What I saw on the field last year was a shock to me. The receivers looked slow and predictable. Chad Johnson was blanketed by the DB's covering him. Carson Palmer was a shadow of his former self. There was something more than the lack of a running game going on.

[UKRaven]

NO - The simple explination is that the Bengals play in the AFCN !!!

They may not be as bad a run franchise as it seems, and have talent on their roster, but the are constantly playing catch-up with two of the best run franchises around.

This year they are up against the current Champs and us. :grbac:

[psuasskicker]

NO - The simple explination is that the Bengals play in the AFCN !!!

They may not be as bad a run franchise as it seems, and have talent on their roster, but the are constantly playing catch-up with two of the best run franchises around.

This year they are up against the current Champs and us. :grbac:

Yeah but we're only 25% of their games each year...that's no excuse for them to be so pathetic rushing the ball. The Bengals were #29 in total rushing yards and #30 in YPA. They only had three games all season where one of their RBs had 100 yards rushing. Neither of their primary backs ran for better than 3.5 YPA.

Their rushing attack sucked because they relied on two crappy RBs, they couldn't get anything going in the passing game, their OL wasn't good, and they were consistently behind and had to pass later in games.

- C -

[baltimore_hokie]

Dont know about playoffs,but the Bungles will definitely be competitive.

They had bar none one of the best drafts I have seen in the last 5 years from top to bottom,and their first 3 picks should start right away,and the next 2 will be significant contributors this year.

Palmer is back,and the defense is up and coming.

I wouldnt overlook them at all.

i agree with pretty much everything you said, but the more i think about their defense the more i wonder about how good it really is. was their ranking a function of teams beating them so bad by the 4th quarter that they let up or was it really solid? if i had time, i'd look into it more, but i think it's crazy that all these bungle fans are saying their D will be better than ours.

[Jeremiah W]

i agree with pretty much everything you said, but the more i think about their defense the more i wonder about how good it really is. was their ranking a function of teams beating them so bad by the 4th quarter that they let up or was it really solid? if i had time, i'd look into it more, but i think it's crazy that all these bungle fans are saying their D will be better than ours.

All you have to do is watch the Mark Clayton highlights in the Bungle games or Flacco get his first TD untouched on a naked boot to see they are still Bungles. We pounded those guys last year. Palmer looked like he was the one in his first ever pro game week 1, not Flacco. What are they good at? they have a couple decent players, but do not cover very well, stop the run very well, rush the Qb or create turnovers, or even confuse a rooke QB. I do not think they are the 12th best defense, maybe 22 but they were so pathetic on O, there was no need to expose the defense like we did with Clayton when we could just pound them into submission with the run game.

[psuasskicker]

I'm so tired of hearing people drooling all over their draft as though it was some sort of magical fairy-tale that was too good to be true...

You guys understand there's a reason all those guys fell to them, right? Their first three picks all have work ethics questions around them. They're going to the B-E-N-G-A-L-S... The very picture of stability and high work ethics... <sic> Those guys are underperformers waiting to happen.

How many other drafts in the past seven to ten years have the Bengals had that you say "Man, what incredible talent they picked up!!!" And yet in this decade, for 8 out of 9 years, they've finished with a sub-.500 record.

My gut says we're in for more of that next season.

- C --

[Lee Van Cleef]

Next season, like us, they are playing the Steelers twice, the Vikings and the Bears. They are also playing us twice. That's six games against good defenses, five games against the top three run defenses in the league. I think that will be interesting.

I don't know, I just think there is something about the organisation that doesn't breed success. I put it in two places, the lack of a real GM making good personnel moves and the lack of a solid head coach that has some degree of control. I think it was Chris Henry that Lewis said he didn't want around again, but then the owner went out and brought him back anyway. How can players take the coach seriously if that kind of thing happens in public?

I can see they have talented players, I just doubt the ability of them all to commit to each other and the coaches and give it their all.

[Dave Lap]

Next season, like us, they are playing the Steelers twice, the Vikings and the Bears. They are also playing us twice. That's six games against good defenses, five games against the top three run defenses in the league. I think that will be interesting.

I don't know, I just think there is something about the organisation that doesn't breed success. I put it in two places, the lack of a real GM making good personnel moves and the lack of a solid head coach that has some degree of control. I think it was Chris Henry that Lewis said he didn't want around again, but then the owner went out and brought him back anyway. How can players take the coach seriously if that kind of thing happens in public?

I can see they have talented players, I just doubt the ability of them all to commit to each other and the coaches and give it their all.

I agree. I see an organization that's lacking the commitment to develop a winning chemistry. Or they want to do it, but just haven't figured out how. That's what I saw on the field last year. Kind of reminded me of the Cowboys with less talent.