Ot / Ufc 98

[HoustonRaven]

Great couple of fights this weekend .... one match will be a battle of the undefeated and the other a long-time grudge match in the making.

Machida v. Evans - For the UFC purest, this fight will be fun to watch. For the casual fan, this will be confusing and boring. I was solid behind Evans on this one but I have sold into the hype surrounding him only being a counter-puncher with a suspect ground game (at least, compared to Machida). Would not be surprised if this fight goes either way but I am thinking Machida pulls this one out.

Hughes v. Sera - Here is where IJ makes me wrong, I am afraid. Had this fight happened pre-Hughes back problems, I'd give him the win without question. Now I am leaning towards the healthier and hungrier Sera. I just dont think Hughes has the passion anymore and may just be in this one for the paycheck.

I am a little interested in seeing how Sherk will bounce back after his steroids allegations (get it? I used "little" and "Sherk" in the same sentence).

[italianjoker]

Great couple of fights this weekend .... one match will be a battle of the undefeated and the other a long-time grudge match in the making.

Machida v. Evans - For the UFC purest, this fight will be fun to watch. For the casual fan, this will be confusing and boring. I was solid behind Evans on this one but I have sold into the hype surrounding him only being a counter-puncher with a suspect ground game (at least, compared to Machida). Would not be surprised if this fight goes either way but I am thinking Machida pulls this one out.

Hughes v. Sera - Here is where IJ makes me wrong, I am afraid. Had this fight happened pre-Hughes back problems, I'd give him the win without question. Now I am leaning towards the healthier and hungrier Sera. I just dont think Hughes has the passion anymore and may just be in this one for the paycheck.

I am a little interested in seeing how Sherk will bounce back after his steroids allegations (get it? I used "little" and "Sherk" in the same sentence).

Machida V Evans is a tough one. i do not like Evans, but you have to respect him. i hate all the dancing and showing off he does, there is no room for it in this sport. but the guy keeps winning somehow. it is hard for me to pick against him for that simple fact. Rashad has proven to have a heavy punch and he is quick. he has good wrestling ability, but may want to avoid the ground with Lyoto since Lyoto would have the advantage on the ground clearly. Lyoto is the more rounded guy and the guy i would want to win, just can not pick against Rashad. he has proven me wrong too many times.

Serra V Hughes is tough too. Serra is a friend of my family. he is a Renzo Gracie blackbelt which is who my brother has his blackbelt from. Hughes was one of my favorite fighters until i found out more and more about him. i hate the guy now and they hate each other. this is not just fight hype, they actually hate each other. Hughes thinks Serra does not deserve a shot in the UFC, he thinks Serra should not even be in the same ring as him. Hughes is a cocky jackass. in fact, his wife told him that he better make Serra bleed or not come home.

Hughes is strong and a good wrestler. but if he can not take you down and impose his will, he has shown he can not stay in the fight. Serra is a well rounded fighter, the most well rounded of the two. his BJJ is among the tops in the UFC. his hands are heavy and he can do a lot of damage for such a little guy. Serra really needs to stuff Hughes shots. Hughes only chance i see in this is if he can take Serra down and stay on top like GSP did. i just do not know that he can do that. plus GSP got to 1/2 guard in their 2nd fight and stayed there. Serra was not strong enough and had major back problems at the time. there was nothing he could do to get out of 1/2 and GSP was in no danger being in Serra's 1/2. i do not know that Hughes could get to 1/2 and keep himself there against Serra. Serra would be able to recover and put Hughes in danger.

i am looking forward to the fight, but extra nervous. i love Serra. he was a favorite of mine before my brother started training with him. becoming friends with him gives me that added nervousness i would have for any of my friends stepping in there. lastly the hatred i have for Hughes and the hatred i know he has for Hughes. he is ready for this fight. i am hoping Serra comes out on top, but will not make a prediction on it. i will simply kknock on a lot of wood and continue to pray. this is a huge fight and one that we (Serra and people close to him) have been waiting for for a long time.

looking forward to a good night of fights. they should be interesting.

[HoustonRaven]

Countdown to UFC 98 is on Spike tonight.

Should be interesting how they spin both fights.

[RAVENOUS52]

I was planning on going down the road to Vegas for this one but the cheapest tickets I could find online were $1,200...:eek:

I'm thinking Serra will prevail and Evans catches Machida with his "Jailhouse Rock" hybrid style.

Matt Hughes is a dick.

That is all.

[HoustonRaven]

I dont want to come across as a Hughes supporter.

After watching the Countdown show last night, I am convinced they are both pompous assholes. Or, at the very least, they are being edited that way for the sake of the show.

And I had completely forgot about Evans grabbing his junk and taunting Forrest Griffin during their fight. That crap has no business in the sport.

I hope Machida pulls a Mr. Miyagi on Evans and knocks him down a peg.

[RAVENOUS52]

Of the two, I'm thinking only Evans stands a puncher's chance against Rampage.

The lads over in the UK at Wolfslair MMA Academy have already made a couple of noted improvements to Quinton's all around fight game and I'm thinking that in a standup war, only Rashad has the firepower to finish him.

[HoustonRaven]

I dont think either has the punching power to take out Rampage. But that's not the way Rampage will get beat, IMO.

Evans has had some KO success, but he has a slew of 3 round decisions and not all of them were unanimous. He does seem to progress towards being more of a puncher as he has matured. It will be the only way he can beat Machida and in there lay the rub -- Machida is one elusive fighter.

I like the prospect of either guy taking on Rampage, personally. Both offer a different style of fight and Rampage will have to game plan accordingly.

[italianjoker]

Of the two, I'm thinking only Evans stands a puncher's chance against Rampage.

The lads over in the UK at Wolfslair MMA Academy have already made a couple of noted improvements to Quinton's all around fight game and I'm thinking that in a standup war, only Rashad has the firepower to finish him.

i love Rampage, but until he accepts that you have to work on your ground skills to stay on top i see him as beatable in most match-ups. Lyoto can tap him out and if it got to the ground Lyoto would run through him. Rampage has no BJJ at all. and the boys in the UK are not changing that. he hates BJJ. Joe Rogan tapped him out and it was hilarious.

Houston, as for you thinking Serra is a pompous ass, no problem. he is funny as hell and very dry and sarcastic. it is an acquired taste, but if you knew him as i did, you would totally see how he speaks differently. i can tell you that you can not judge him as a person from what he says about Hughes. i have never seen him dislike someone the way he dislikes Hughes.

of course they cut and edit the worst of both, but Hughes worst is everyday Hughes. sure, sure, maybe you think i am saying that due to me liking Serra. but people really hate Hughes because of the dick that he is. when he was in Iowa still and at Miletich's camp the guy slept with the wives of 3 people there. 2 of the guys are fighters you know from various fight leagues and UFC appearences. i know this because we have been to Bettendorf, Iowa (we were there to watch Renzo choke Pat out during a fight a couple years back. Pat was a great guy though, that can never be denied) and to their school. we also have friends that train there and give us plenty of the drama stories. the dude is the epitome of the Highschool bully that deserves every asskicking he gets.

Ravenous, my brother is in Vegas now and will be at the show.

[HoustonRaven]

Im saying I think they are both a pompous ass :)

I just watched the weigh in and I thought Sera looked a little doughy around the middle. To be fair, I've seen Hughes in better shape before as well. Likewise for Machida.

I got a bad vibe about the fights. Maybe it's from being burned by the Silva fight but Im skerd these will be a dud again.

Predictions .....

Machida over Evans via submission .... Evans has proven me wrong in about 3 fights, namely the Griffin fight. I just dont see how he can avoid Machidas frustrating style. His camp seems over confident and to me that's saying they are overcompensating. Evans has been known to give up rounds and has gone to the judges score cards more than I find comfortable.

Hughes over Serra via decision ... Gone back and forth on this for a coupe of weeks now but the weigh in told me a lot. Sherdog and Bloody Elbow blogs have been hinting that Serra was not looking his best during his training and his doughy showing at the weigh in proved it. Although I think Hughes is also somewhat not inspired by this fight as well, his overall experience and octagon savvy will take over. This fight will not come close to the hype of 3 years ago, but will still be entertaining. Serra will lose this one from being on his back all night.

[italianjoker]

thank you Lyoto Machida for making the night a good one. that is the exact way i wanted to see Rashad lose. getting knocked out badly. while he was running his mouth at that. i am amazed it took this long for it to happen but oh so happy it finally has.

as for the Serra/Hughes match....good thoughts by you. as we were leading up to it that was me and my friends' fear of what would go on in the fight. Serra got robbed on the decision though. he won the 1st and 3rd rounds without question. for judges it was close enough though that the name of Matt Hughes gets the win. Hughes wanted nothing to do with that fight. he simply tried to lay on Serra the entire time. did you see the cuts on Serra's face? they were from Hughes trying to open him up by scratching him with the seems of the gloves and finger nails. lame.

after the fight Serra said he could have done more in the 2nd, but thought they were going to get stood back up since Hughes was doing nothing. he was surprised when they were allowed to just lay there. he knew he had won the first though. i really am clueless at how judges see fights though. it shows they still have no idea what they are watching. submission attempts get no recognition.

Frankie Edgar looked good though. he worked Sherk over.

i thought the fights were good. while i did not get all the outcomes i would like, they were entertaining at least. with Serra/Hughes being my least favorite of the night by far due to Hughes' stalling tactics and Serra seemingly not taking the fight very serious. Serra always jokes, but he really seemed to be a bit more than usual in this fight.

[HoustonRaven]

I dont see how you can give Serra round 1.

It was clearly a head butt and a punch to the back of the head. Without question, the judges were told it was a butt and a punch to the back of the head and scored accordingly. You take that exchange out of the equation and you have Serra unable to finish off a VERY hurt Hughes. Then throw in two take downs after Serra failed to take advantage of the situation and it's a no-brainer to me. As I said before, Serra was going to lose on his back. I never said it was going to be sexy. ;)

That fight told me a lot about a few fighters. It told me Serra is not in the top tier of Middleweights. It told me that Hughes has morphed into a very technical fighter. And lastly, it told me what a higher level GSP is sitting on right now. Hughes could not get past Serra's guard all night yet GSP did so at will against them both.

Agreed about Machida and Evans. I had no idea he had that kind of KO power and it was a very fitting end to a disgraceful reign as champ. Evans had zero class but did win a little back being contrite after the fight.

I am already trying to handicap Machida v. Rampage.

[italianjoker]

I dont see how you can give Serra round 1.

It was clearly a head butt and a punch to the back of the head. Without question, the judges were told it was a butt and a punch to the back of the head and scored accordingly. You take that exchange out of the equation and you have Serra unable to finish off a VERY hurt Hughes. Then throw in two take downs after Serra failed to take advantage of the situation and it's a no-brainer to me. As I said before, Serra was going to lose on his back. I never said it was going to be sexy. ;)

That fight told me a lot about a few fighters. It told me Serra is not in the top tier of Middleweights. It told me that Hughes has morphed into a very technical fighter. And lastly, it told me what a higher level GSP is sitting on right now. Hughes could not get past Serra's guard all night yet GSP did so at will against them both.

Agreed about Machida and Evans. I had no idea he had that kind of KO power and it was a very fitting end to a disgraceful reign as champ. Evans had zero class but did win a little back being contrite after the fight.

I am already trying to handicap Machida v. Rampage.



the judges were told nothing in regards to the "headbutt". they are only instructed if it is intentional and if points are to be taken away due to it. neither of which is the case in this instance.

1st round Serra knocked down Hughes and gave some punishment after the knock down. he pushed forward during the round in which Hughes simply circled out and ran. Hughes did get 1 takedown, not 2. during that takedown Serra gave Hughes his back in order to get out. Hughes had a half hearted attempt at a rear naked which was never close and Serra easily got off the ground and back to his feet. Hughes was in space the entire round and inflicted no punishment even while on the ground. the other "takedown" you give Hughes credit for was not a takedown. the takedown was never completed because Hughes never controlled Serra, they popped right back up to their feet. this round goes to Serra for being the only 1 to push the action.

2nd Round was a snore fest. Hughes laying on Serra and stalling and Steve Mazagatti's dumbass allowing it to stay that way (thus the reason why Dana White hates the guy and wishes he would never ref another UFC event. not just because of this fight, but because of various fights). no damage was done other than Hughes trying to cut Serra's face with his gloves. Serra admitted that he could have and should have tried more in the 2nd, but he expected to be stood up since Hughes was doing nothing to advance his position. 2nd round to Hughes for being a good hugger.

3rd round, Hughes takedown resulted in him being caught in a submission. it is the reason that Hughes laid still for as long as he did. Serra had his shoulder stuck and if Hughes would have continued he would have been tapped. so yes, Hughes got a takedown in the 3rd, but Serra nullifies the takedown with how deep that submission was. once Hughes was out of that shoulder lock he proceeded to do nothign from the top. Serra then isolated the opposite shoulder and when Hughes tried to escape caught Hughes in a triangle. Hughes was never in trouble in the triangle, but the mere fact that Serra was rolling from sub attempt to sub attempt while Hughes just lays on him gives Serra the advantage in this exchange. MMA is not like wrestling. the man on top is not always the man winning the exchange. once they were stood up Serra pressed the action and when they got into a clinch Serra took Hughes down and when they hit the ground Serra immediately looked to pass Hughes guard and threw punches the entire time. as they scrambled Serra improved his position looking to take Hughes back before finishing the round attempting a kimora. 3rd round easily Serra.

we agree to disagree. if you think Serra is not top tier due to his preformance, so be it. but you must think Hughes is way over the hill and lame because he just ran scared the entire time. even when he was on top, a spot he loves to be in, he did nothing. inflicted no damage and had no sub attempts. he simply laid there.

[HoustonRaven]

You do understand you're in a complete minority on the Hughes v. Serra fight, right?

It got Fight of the Night and the corresponding bonus by Dana White. It was, as I predicted, a tactical fight and Serra clearly showed he was the lesser of the two. Why do I think that? Because of Serra's own words after the fight. He felt he "could have done more" and that Hughes has "more talent" than he expected. His words, not mine. Even Greenburg and Rogan made the same assessment. They thought, as I do, Hughes won the first two and might have squeaked out the third.

There was clearly a butt, followed by a punch to the back of the head a few seconds later while Hughes was down. I do not believe the UFC judges score in the same manner as boxing (the removal of points). Judges are told certain take downs were slips, punches that ought not count, etc and to score accordingly. Points are removed by the ref if something is flagrant or repeated. I know you dont like Hughes but it seems you're letting your thoughts of Serra cloud your objectivity.

When I say Hughes has become more of a technical fighter, I am in essence in agreement with you. He has clearly lost a step and is no where near as explosive as he used to be. Ditto to Serra.

We will probably never agree on this. ;)

[italianjoker]

You do understand you're in a complete minority on the Hughes v. Serra fight, right?

It got Fight of the Night and the corresponding bonus by Dana White. It was, as I predicted, a tactical fight and Serra clearly showed he was the lesser of the two. Why do I think that? Because of Serra's own words after the fight. He felt he "could have done more" and that Hughes has "more talent" than he expected. His words, not mine. Even Greenburg and Rogan made the same assessment. They thought, as I do, Hughes won the first two and might have squeaked out the third.

There was clearly a butt, followed by a punch to the back of the head a few seconds later while Hughes was down. I do not believe the UFC judges score in the same manner as boxing (the removal of points). Judges are told certain take downs were slips, punches that ought not count, etc and to score accordingly. Points are removed by the ref if something is flagrant or repeated. I know you dont like Hughes but it seems you're letting your thoughts of Serra cloud your objectivity.

When I say Hughes has become more of a technical fighter, I am in essence in agreement with you. He has clearly lost a step and is no where near as explosive as he used to be. Ditto to Serra.

We will probably never agree on this. ;)


you are absolutely correct, you and i will never agree on this.

as for me being in the minority, do you read many MMA forums or sites? i assume not since you believe you are so very correct on this fight. it recieved fight of the night so Dana could bonus those two off some money, it by far was not the true fight of the night.

and lastly, on the judges and what they are told, you truly have no idea what you are speaking of on this matter. have you been trained as an MMA judge? if so, in which state? because i have been through the training and i know the guy that made the rules that the UFC follows. he is a head of the athletic commission in NJ and helped us get MMA legalized in here in MD last year.

on Serra's words after the fight, i really do not think you understand what Serra was saying at the end of the fight. when he said "he could have done more" that does not mean he is not a good fighter, it means he did not put everything on the table in that fight. this can be said of many fighters and players all over the place in any sport. sometimes you have a bad night and you walk out feeling like you did not give it your all. on the words about Hughes, so now you think less of Serra as a fighter because he gave respect in a post fight interview? seriously, it sounds like you have something against Serra.

Serra lost the fight for not sticking to his BJJ. the fight should have been finished in the first when Hughes was hurt. Serra should have choked Hughes out instead of trying to punch and finish. and it is obvious you do not clearly remember the fight because the "punch to the back of the head" was not a few seconds later. Serra ducked in to throw a body shot which connected and hurt Hughes, when Hughes buckled down he hit his own head on the top of Serra's head as Serra was coming out from his bodyshot. as the headbutt was happening Serra was throwing a right cross and it hit Hughes towards the back of his ear a moment after the unintentional "headbutt".

our opinions also differ on the "technical fighter" comment. to me that means a guy is well rounded and does not waste energy. very methodical in what he does. able to flow from submission to submission, etc... that in no way was Matt Hughes. Hughes was running scared the entire night. he showed none of the aggression he usually shows and even when in his comfort zone of being on top of Serra the entire 2nd round he did nothing with it. no strikes and no sub attempts. that is a bit lame, not technical.

[HoustonRaven]

as for me being in the minority, do you read many MMA forums or sites? i assume not since you believe you are so very correct on this fight. it recieved fight of the night so Dana could bonus those two off some money, it by far was not the true fight of the night.

Writers at both Sherdog and Bloody Elbow have all made the very same comments I have about the fight. So yes, I do read them. Again, I also used Serra's own words after the fight which you can easily see for yourself at ufc.com. I have absolutely nothing against Serra. I had zero emotion in that fight other than wanting to see a good fight. Serra spent 75% of that fight on his back because Hughes took him down and kept him there. It was not sexy. And to my friends who were not MMA fans, they thought it was rather boring and even tey said Hughes won the fight. Two things happened over and over again in that fight -- Hughes took down Serra at will, Serra could not get out of it. Dana may be a lot of things but he is not a fake.


and lastly, on the judges and what they are told, you truly have no idea what you are speaking of on this matter. have you been trained as an MMA judge? if so, in which state? because i have been through the training and i know the guy that made the rules that the UFC follows. he is a head of the athletic commission in NJ and helped us get MMA legalized in here in MD last year.

Unless the person you know is Mark Ratner, the former head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and current VP of Regulatory Affairs for the UFC, you don't know the person responsible for bringing sanctioning rules to the UFC. The fight took place in Nevada and under NSAC rules, judges can and are told to ignore certain illegal punches, moves, etc that the referee misses during the course of the fight. Tony Orlando or Aaron Davis is your friend then? Because they head the SACB and were responsible for MMA sanctioning in NJ. You do understand that what flies in NJ may not fly in Nevada?

[HoustonRaven]

And dont get me wrong. I like our banter back and forth. I just dont have any emotion for either fighter and call it like I see it. And like everyone else, I have opinions and we all know what opinions are like! :thumbup:

Now back to the banter ....

Serra was ranked 11th in the welterweight division prior to the fight. He has slipped to 14th now, behind the likes of Koscheck, Condit and Swick. That's saying something.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/rankings

Here is one for my side on the fight ....

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/5/24/884944/ufc-98-results-matt-hughes-takes

And one for yours ....

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/5/23/884438/ufc-98-lyoto-machida-vs-rashad

[italianjoker]

Writers at both Sherdog and Bloody Elbow have all made the very same comments I have about the fight. So yes, I do read them. Again, I also used Serra's own words after the fight which you can easily see for yourself at ufc.com. I have absolutely nothing against Serra. I had zero emotion in that fight other than wanting to see a good fight. Serra spent 75% of that fight on his back because Hughes took him down and kept him there. It was not sexy. And to my friends who were not MMA fans, they thought it was rather boring and even tey said Hughes won the fight. Two things happened over and over again in that fight -- Hughes took down Serra at will, Serra could not get out of it. Dana may be a lot of things but he is not a fake.



Unless the person you know is Mark Ratner, the former head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and current VP of Regulatory Affairs for the UFC, you don't know the person responsible for bringing sanctioning rules to the UFC. The fight took place in Nevada and under NSAC rules, judges can and are told to ignore certain illegal punches, moves, etc that the referee misses during the course of the fight. Tony Orlando or Aaron Davis is your friend then? Because they head the SACB and were responsible for MMA sanctioning in NJ. You do understand that what flies in NJ may not fly in Nevada?

1) sorry, but i do not really care what your friends who are not fans of MMA think of the fight and who won. they do not have enough knowledge of what they are watching to have a relevant opinion. as for Dana, you do really speak of him as if you know him. we know Matt Serra and my brother was at the event. you can believe what you like to believe when i say things, but i do not just pull them out of my ass.

as far as you saying "Hughes took Serra down at will", really, the conversation is over. Hughes took Serra down 3 times in the entire fight and you say at will? you have to actually do something with the takedown, you do realize that correct? laying on a guy does not count. had Serra not laid there waiting for Mazzigatti to stand them up in the 2nd round, you would be singing a different tune. but because he laid there taking no damage and not trying to escape you think Hughes actually controlled him. it is hilarious.

2) yes, we do know Mark Ratner. he actually came and testified before the State with us when we were getting MMA legalized here last year and we stay in touch with him to this day. i was speaking more in terms of Nick Lembo from NJ. the rules and regulations that he helped write are the rules and regulations that are adopted around the world. NJ was the 1st spot to legalize and sanction fights. they did that while Ratner was still the head of the Athletic commission in Nevada and while Ratner was still calling the sport "human cockfighting". due to NJ rules he changed his mind, resigned his position and became employed by the UFC. i will place a quote here and then link a NY Post article that i took the quote from:

The first thing the UFC did was adopt the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts developed by the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board.

Nick is on that board and one of the heads in the state of NJ. he was prominant in developing those rules that the UFC adopted. i do not care if the fight was in Vegas, it is NJ's rules they are using. here is a link to the article:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01032009/sports/moresports/time_for_new_york_to_legalize_mma_147014.htm

the article is about trying to legalize it in NY. guess what, if it is legalized there Matt Serra vs GSP is rumored to be a main event since Matt went to GSP's hometown for his title defense. and guess what, even though Serra has dropped to 14th on that list, Dana and the UFC still look at him as a top fighter in the weight class. to be quite honest, we all want him to drop more weight and demolish his 155 weightclass. but he can not cut the amount of weight he would need to cut so he stays at 170.

i do not mind the banter either, but i am a bit closer to this stuff than you are and i actually do know many of the parties involved. i am not saying my word is gospel, but i do expect my opinion to be respected and not just dismissed due to you thinking i am too close to Matt Serra.

[italianjoker]

Serra was ranked 11th in the welterweight division prior to the fight. He has slipped to 14th now, behind the likes of Koscheck, Condit and Swick. That's saying something.


i guess it means you do not know who those fighters are, because they are each talented people that would not "lay and pray" like Hughes did.

here is a link to a 24 page thread where 75% of the people thought Serra got robbed, about 15% of them thought Hughes won and the other 10% thought it was a draw.

i merely post this link due to the fact that you say it is so clear that Hughes won the fight. apparently it is not that clear at all. otherwise there would not be so many folks with differing opinions.

1st round Serra, 2nd round Hughes 3rd round Serra. Hughes did nothing while on top in the 3rd round while Serra worked multiple submission attempts. each had a takedown and Serra inflicted damage and worked to improve his position when he got his takedown. in MMA being on bottom does not mean you are the loser, especially if the guy on top is doing nothing.

again, we agree to disagree.

[HoustonRaven]

No link, my friend! ;)

And do not confuse me thinking Hughes won as it being "so clear". What was clear is that it was close.

On a slightly different topic, I read today that Hughes now wants a GSP rematch. Gimme a break! I think you and I both agree that's just idiotic.

[italianjoker]

No link, my friend! ;)

And do not confuse me thinking Hughes won as it being "so clear". What was clear is that it was close.

On a slightly different topic, I read today that Hughes now wants a GSP rematch. Gimme a break! I think you and I both agree that's just idiotic.

i forget attachments on emails too. all the time.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/matt-serra-just-kicked-ass-980582/

GSP will kill Hughes. again. and hopefully he will do it even quicker this time. last time he took his time and wanted to break Hughes' will by dominating him.

Hughes contract is up and so he has to do something arrogant and jackassy (plus he is a prick and his ego makes him say and do dumb crap) like this to keep his name out there. especially after his dryhumping of Serra this past weekend. GSP is too fast and too strong for Hughes.

[Rochardrik]

You guys really like watching near-naked men rolling around on the floor entagled in each other's grasp?... Really?
Don't yell at me, besides being unecessarily brutal, it makes me uneasy!... And I am not at all homophobic.... But I don't care to watch gay porn, either.

[italianjoker]

You guys really like watching near-naked men rolling around on the floor entagled in each other's grasp?... Really?
Don't yell at me, besides being unecessarily brutal, it makes me uneasy!... And I am not at all homophobic.... But I don't care to watch gay porn, either.

just curious.

do you mind amatuer wrestling?

do you mind boxing?

do you mind judo?

do you mind jiu-jitsu?

do you mind kickboxing?

and when i say mind, do you think they are "unneccessarily brutal"?

as for the "homophobic", you are either joking or very homophobic if this bothers you. i do have a picture for you though...

[HoustonRaven]

You guys really like watching near-naked men rolling around on the floor entagled in each other's grasp?... Really?
Don't yell at me, besides being unecessarily brutal, it makes me uneasy!... And I am not at all homophobic.... But I don't care to watch gay porn, either.

I hope you understand how incredible ignorant these comments are.

I guess I ought not be too surprised though, given your political proclivities.

Prejudging with little facts is often the way of your side.

[HoustonRaven]

GSP will kill Hughes. again. and hopefully he will do it even quicker this time. last time he took his time and wanted to break Hughes' will by dominating him.

Hughes contract is up and so he has to do something arrogant and jackassy (plus he is a prick and his ego makes him say and do dumb crap) like this to keep his name out there. especially after his dryhumping of Serra this past weekend. GSP is too fast and too strong for Hughes.

Agreed up to the dryhumping comment! ;)

I dont know what Hughes is thinking here. Maybe he is hoping for a ground swell of fan support to force Dana into signing it.

It will make the UFC some money should it happen. However, to put it bluntly, Hughes does not even come close to deserve a title shot. GSP took him down and passed his guard at will. It was some of the best ground work I have seen in the past few years and the fight was not even close.

[joeshmoe]

LOL at the judges being instructed to score fights a certain way. The judges score the fight how they see fit without outside instruction. That is their job. One of these idiots actually scored round 1 for Hughes which was laughable. If he scores that round properly Serra wins the fight.

Peoples unfamiliarity with the ground game still causes b.s. decisions like the one in the Serra Hughes fight. I saw the fight in person. I went home and watched it on TV. Clearly Serra won the 3rd round. Hughes did not do one offensive technique in round 3 other than score a takedown. Serra controlled the action from his back with 3 sub attempts. He got back to his feet and took Hughes down. He did more damage in 30 sec than Hughes did in the previous 2 min of laying and praying. Then Serra had him in one more sub attempt (a kimura) when the fight ended.

Serra got jobbed.

By the way Marc Ratner is a great man. He is helpful when states are trying to get MMA legalized. But he has had zero to do with the unified rules adopted by the UFC. In fact Mr. Ratner was still employed by the NSAC when these rules were created and adopted.

[HoustonRaven]

LOL at the judges being instructed to score fights a certain way. The judges score the fight how they see fit without outside instruction. That is their job. One of these idiots actually scored round 1 for Hughes which was laughable. If he scores that round properly Serra wins the fight.

Peoples unfamiliarity with the ground game still causes b.s. decisions like the one in the Serra Hughes fight. I saw the fight in person. I went home and watched it on TV. Clearly Serra won the 3rd round. Hughes did not do one offensive technique in round 3 other than score a takedown. Serra controlled the action from his back with 3 sub attempts. He got back to his feet and took Hughes down. He did more damage in 30 sec than Hughes did in the previous 2 min of laying and praying. Then Serra had him in one more sub attempt (a kimura) when the fight ended.

Serra got jobbed.

By the way Marc Ratner is a great man. He is helpful when states are trying to get MMA legalized. But he has had zero to do with the unified rules adopted by the UFC. In fact Mr. Ratner was still employed by the NSAC when these rules were created and adopted.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts.

It was a close fight and people seem split 50-50 on the outcome. But that is where opinion ends and facts begin.

Judges working for NSAC, for all combat sports in the state and when there is missed illegal move, get instructions to ignore them on the score card. A fighter cannot gain advantage from an illegal strike or move. Now, because I am bringing that up does NOT mean I thought Hughes won round 1. Nor does it mean the move was intentional or anything dirty on Serra's part.

Secondly, I am well aware of when Ratner worked with NSAC and then with UFC. For years, he was opposed to the no holds barred style of the promotion and spoke out often. In 2001, he worked with the UFC to create the unified rules and since has been MMA's staunchest supporters in getting the 46 states that have an athletic commission to adopt the rules. Later in September of 2001, the UFC held it's first show in Las Vegas. He even made a "selling" video back in 2006 when he first came on board with Zuffa that he gave to states thinking about sanctioning MMA fights.

[Rochardrik]

just curious.

do you mind amatuer wrestling?

do you mind boxing?

do you mind judo?

do you mind jiu-jitsu?

do you mind kickboxing?

and when i say mind, do you think they are "unneccessarily brutal"?

as for the "homophobic", you are either joking or very homophobic if this bothers you. i do have a picture for you though...

Lol the pic... yes, that's exactly what I mean... makes me uncomfortable.... I know, I know. the original Olympics were nude events... and in their time, ... well I guess it's what you get used to.
Don't have any interest in wrestling, pro, or amateur, Used to love boxing.... not much there anymore, never watched the other three, so , I guess I can't answer.
But, for me, boxing always seemed like a sport... even sporting... I don't view MMA, UFC or what ever nomenclature you throw at it, as such.
The question was not a jab... I was asking a real question.
I won't comment further on the homophobe thing, except to say I stand by my original statement.

[Rochardrik]

I hope you understand how incredible ignorant these comments are.

I guess I ought not be too surprised though, given your political proclivities.

Prejudging with little facts is often the way of your side.

How was this prejudging? That makes not a lick of sense... at least not to me, but then again, I'm not a conservative, so obviously I don't understand:261695:
No, I don't know how "incredible" ignorant these comments are...Tell me, oh wise one!... Where is the ignorance in the post? I was asking a question, a serious one. My guess is that the answer is that it bolsters the viewer's machismo... I withdraw the question..
Oh, and reading the posts here, it seems like it is just a more brutal form of WWE... you know, the place choreographers went when Broadway closed down.

[italianjoker]

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts.

It was a close fight and people seem split 50-50 on the outcome. But that is where opinion ends and facts begin.

Judges working for NSAC, for all combat sports in the state and when there is missed illegal move, get instructions to ignore them on the score card. A fighter cannot gain advantage from an illegal strike or move. Now, because I am bringing that up does NOT mean I thought Hughes won round 1. Nor does it mean the move was intentional or anything dirty on Serra's part.

Secondly, I am well aware of when Ratner worked with NSAC and then with UFC. For years, he was opposed to the no holds barred style of the promotion and spoke out often. In 2001, he worked with the UFC to create the unified rules and since has been MMA's staunchest supporters in getting the 46 states that have an athletic commission to adopt the rules. Later in September of 2001, the UFC held it's first show in Las Vegas. He even made a "selling" video back in 2006 when he first came on board with Zuffa that he gave to states thinking about sanctioning MMA fights.

it is quite obvious you are not aware of when Ratner worked where and what his role was. you are still attributing the Unified Rules to Ratner and not the people who actually did create them. Ratner himself said he had nothing to do with writing those rules, yet i am to take your word as he helped write them.

seriously, leave the wikipedia info to wikipedia. we actually know the man and know the people that wrote the rules.

as for refs being instructed, again, you are out of your element. i thought you had moved on from this subject after i posted, but now here you are again balking about things out of turn. i am not trying to be a prick here or offend, but you are speaking on things that you do not have proper info on. opinions are fine, but your "facts" are only facts in your head.

[italianjoker]

Lol the pic... yes, that's exactly what I mean... makes me uncomfortable.... I know, I know. the original Olympics were nude events... and in their time, ... well I guess it's what you get used to.
Don't have any interest in wrestling, pro, or amateur, Used to love boxing.... not much there anymore, never watched the other three, so , I guess I can't answer.
But, for me, boxing always seemed like a sport... even sporting... I don't view MMA, UFC or what ever nomenclature you throw at it, as such.
The question was not a jab... I was asking a real question.
I won't comment further on the homophobe thing, except to say I stand by my original statement.

the reason i ask your opinion of each of those events is because each of those are legal in this state and basically everywhere. none of them are thought of as brutal. so what you are basically saying is that each of them are fine on their own, but if someone tries to use all of them at once they are barbaric and brutal?

as for you thinking boxing is such a "sport", you do realize that boxing gloves are made to protect the hands so that the fighters can continue to inflict the most damage possible. the only way you can finish a boxing match is by a KO and the standing 8 count means a guy that just got a concussion is given a chance to catch his breath and then take a bigger beating. and that is not even touching the surface of how gay boxing is in this day and age where the guys throw 2 punches and then clinch up and slow dance until broken by the ref.

[RAVENOUS52]

Basically associating MMA to "gay sex between men" is very incredibly ignorant and quite frankly not something I'd expect from Rochardrik.

But then again there's another thread about a guy missing a voluntary OTA making major headlines here, so nothing really surprises me anymore.

[italianjoker]

Basically associating MMA to "gay sex between men" is very incredibly ignorant and quite frankly not something I'd expect from Rochardrik.

But then again there's another thread about a guy missing a voluntary OTA making major headlines here, so nothing really surprises me anymore.

i honestly think he is just joking to an extent. i do not think he is a fan of the sport, but i do not think he thinks it is gay either.

[RAVENOUS52]

i honestly think he is just joking to an extent. i do not think he is a fan of the sport, but i do not think he thinks it is gay either.

Nor should he.

It's probably the ultimate gladiator sport, IMHO.

I live close to Victorville and I've been there with friends of Joe "Daddy" Stevenson to check out his training camp a couple of times before fights and that BRUTAL training alone would discourage most so-called tough guys from attempting to start a career in MMA!

[HoustonRaven]

it is quite obvious you are not aware of when Ratner worked where and what his role was. you are still attributing the Unified Rules to Ratner and not the people who actually did create them. Ratner himself said he had nothing to do with writing those rules, yet i am to take your word as he helped write them

I never said he created the unified rules. Please actually read what I wrote. He worked with Zuffa back in 2001 in bringing MMA in the fold of the unified rules. He was the NSAC head and simply by definition of his job, worked with UFC to bring them into the mix.


seriously, leave the wikipedia info to wikipedia. we actually know the man and know the people that wrote the rules

Oh please. Maybe the NY Times, MMA Nation, Sherdog etc all have it wrong too? Because all three have it the same way as I have posted.


as for refs being instructed, again, you are out of your element. i thought you had moved on from this subject after i posted, but now here you are again balking about things out of turn. i am not trying to be a prick here or offend, but you are speaking on things that you do not have proper info on. opinions are fine, but your "facts" are only facts in your head.

What part of the NSAC rules have I misquoted or I have inaccurately stated? Please, since you profess to know more, it should not be hard in the least.

And I never said "refs" are the ones getting the instructions. Again, please actually read what I write.

JUDGES are told to ignore certain illegal moves, strikes, etc if it was determined as such. JUDGES are told deduct points at the ref's discretion.

[Rochardrik]

i honestly think he is just joking to an extent. i do not think he is a fan of the sport, but i do not think he thinks it is gay either.

Thanks... You are right on both points.

[HoustonRaven]

Thanks... You are right on both points.

Than I apologize to you, sir. :)

[italianjoker]

I never said he created the unified rules. Please actually read what I wrote. He worked with Zuffa back in 2001 in bringing MMA in the fold of the unified rules. He was the NSAC head and simply by definition of his job, worked with UFC to bring them into the mix.



Oh please. Maybe the NY Times, MMA Nation, Sherdog etc all have it wrong too? Because all three have it the same way as I have posted.



What part of the NSAC rules have I misquoted or I have inaccurately stated? Please, since you profess to know more, it should not be hard in the least.

And I never said "refs" are the ones getting the instructions. Again, please actually read what I write.

JUDGES are told to ignore certain illegal moves, strikes, etc if it was determined as such. JUDGES are told deduct points at the ref's discretion.

LMFAO. i have spent enough time proving you wrong in this thread. i do not need to post more info or links than i already did.

JUDGES are told to ignore things by whom??????? if you said ref you are correct. and the ref gave no instruction in that fight. i read what you wrote in regards to Ratner and in regards to judges and you are incorrect on both counts. accept it or do not accept it, there really is no further conversation to be had.

the day you sit with Ratner and Lembo and have a meal and hear them speak of their origins in this sport and what they did to push the sport forward is the day i will give your opinion credibility on the matter. i have sat with them and i have had conversations with them. Ratner himself credits Lembo for his work on the Unified Rules in his own words. yet you think Sherdog and whereever else have it right. nope, i think Ratner told me the correct info. i also posted a link as to where UFC got their rules from, but you still credit Ratner for telling the UFC what to do when he was not even employed by the UFC at the time.

again, you are over your head here discussing with 2 people that have conversations with the parties involved. no big deal, just move on. do not keep barking to me about how things got started when you are supposedly getting your info from websites and not from the "horses mouth." Lembo's rules got Ratner to recognize the sport and got Ratner on board. Ratner had nothing to do with the origin of these rules.


edit: when i wrote "refs" in the post you were quoting it was a typo. i do not proofread my posts. it was meant to say judges.

[italianjoker]

since you brought up sherdog as one of your sources i figured i would search their site. after a bit of searching i found it so odd to find that......i am correct about the origins of the Unified rules. quite odd, but i quote:

The rules, established in New Jersey in 2000, opened the door for government sanctioning that has come in dozens of states in recent years. Lembo, as well as former UFC matchmaker John Peretti and referee “Big” John McCarthy were driving forces in the crafting of those rules.

funny, i do not see Ratner's name anywhere in the creation of these rules. by the way, when the UFC adopted these rules Zuffa was just buying the UFC and Ratner was still working for the state of Nevada.

here is the link to the article where this stuff is mentioned.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/second-look-on-rules-underway-for-abc-15310

also pretty odd that Nick Lembo, the guy i had been saying helped create the whole thing without Ratner and the UFC, is the deputy attorney for the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board and chairman of the ABC’s MMA committee. (ABC = Association of Boxing Commissions, not being rude, just posting that so everyone knows which ABC i am speaking of.)

please, feel free to post more sources for your "facts" without links. i just linked 1 of your "sources" with info that clearly backs up my previous postings on the origins of these rules. thanks for playing.


ps- Ratner joined the UFC in 2006. a litle bit after their rules adoption.

[HoustonRaven]

And you still do not read my posts ....

You need to reread what I wrote. Everything you just posted about Ratner, I said the same thing.

I never said he created the unified rules or anything like that. Why you keep asserting that is beyond comprehension at this point.

Yes, Ratner was at NSAC when the rules were adopted. Yes, he later left the NSAC to work for the UFC in 2006. The ONLY point I made was he HELPED, as the head of NSAC, with the bringing MMA under the blanket of unified rules. I said it twice now. I saw it over the weekend, but I am going to look for the NY Time piece that even said such. I cannot right now since the Times is firewalled.

Judges are told by refs all the time to ignore illegal moves, deduct points, etc. It happens in boxing. It now happens in MMA. Feel free to call NSAC yourself and ask. As for if the ref gave instructions or not, I assumed he did given the hoopla surrounding the butt. I could be wrong but you're extremely vocal opposition and now your seemingly agreement with me has me puzzled.

[RAVENOUS52]

I'd like to "ground and pound" a couple of those UFC ring card girls, if you know what I mean!

I can only imagine what the look on Joe Rogan's face would be as I went for the rear naked choke...:D

[HoustonRaven]

I'd like to "ground and pound" a couple of those UFC ring card girls, if you know what I mean!

I can only imagine what the look on Joe Rogan's face would be as I went for the rear naked choke...:D

hint taken ..... subject dropped

and i agree 100% :D

[italianjoker]

And you still do not read my posts ....

You need to reread what I wrote. Everything you just posted about Ratner, I said the same thing.

I never said he created the unified rules or anything like that. Why you keep asserting that is beyond comprehension at this point.

Yes, Ratner was at NSAC when the rules were adopted. Yes, he later left the NSAC to work for the UFC in 2006. The ONLY point I made was he HELPED, as the head of NSAC, with the bringing MMA under the blanket of unified rules. I said it twice now. I saw it over the weekend, but I am going to look for the NY Time piece that even said such. I cannot right now since the Times is firewalled.

Judges are told by refs all the time to ignore illegal moves, deduct points, etc. It happens in boxing. It now happens in MMA. Feel free to call NSAC yourself and ask. As for if the ref gave instructions or not, I assumed he did given the hoopla surrounding the butt. I could be wrong but you're extremely vocal opposition and now your seemingly agreement with me has me puzzled.

me now agreeing with you? on what? i have stated the same info from the beginning. you are the one singing new tunes here. you said judges were instructed what to ignore and i said yes they are, but they are instructed by the refs and the ref did not instruct them of anything. i have said that from the beginning and you now are finally agreeing with the statement.

as for Ratner's role, you attributed the rules to him initially. then back off a bit once you saw i knew what i was talking about. every post since you have cooled down on what Ratner's role was from he is the reason the UFC has those rules to now where he simply played a part since it was his job with the NSAC. the Fertitta bros worked on the NSAC (can't recall which brother) before buying the UFC. in fact he was on the board and denied the UFC's license in Nevada in order for the original UFC to have to sell at a cheap price. then he stepped down from his position and bought it only to adopt the unified rules himself and get it sanctioned in the state of Nevada.

Ravenous, i like Joe Stevens. that's cool you had a chance to see his training camp.

[RAVENOUS52]

Ravenous, i like Joe Stevens. that's cool you had a chance to see his training camp.

Yeah, he's one cool dude, not at all caught up in his own press clippings.

He's gonna be the special guest appearing at an MMA show this Sunday in Adelanto, CA. I'll be there front and center to possibly see who the next undiscovered diamond in the rough is.:thumbup: