Maualuga in the First

[baltimore_hokie]

i never considered that he would still be around for our pick, but kiper has us snagging him in the first in his latest mock draft. not that kiper's opinion means that much, but it might mean something that he has slipped from around the top ten to anywhere near us. this could be a similar situation to how sizzle slipped to us with a slow 40 time, that didn't work out too bad. the guy is a stud and would be an absolute beast playing next to ray. him, coupled with jarron gilbert or ramses barden in the second, would be a very solid draft for us. my question is: i see maualuga going to the chargers possibly at 16, do you think he will slide to us?

[B-more Ravor]

I'm not sure he would fall that far, but depending upon who else was there, I'd have a hard time believing that they wouldn't take him.

That said, I found the following blurb to be interesting (not that I'm saying that I agree with it) - former NFL FO head, Mike Lombardi, explaining why he left Maualuga totally out of the first round of his mock draft:


I did not include Rey Maualuga of USC because he doesn’t play on third down. Additionally, when a team is in a three-receiver set on first down, he’s also not in the game. He will only play about 40 percent of the time, and no matter how effective he is in that 40 percent, it’s still very hard to draft someone in the first round who cannot affect third down. I know he’s a good player, but the first round requires you to pick players who can play full time, not part time.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/diner-morning-news-mock-breakdown/

[srobert96]

I would be shocked if the Ravens drafted Maualuga in the first. I have yet to see the Ravens draft a kid from USC or Texas. Players from those schools are known for being soft and usually don't play up to their hype. There are exceptions like the safety in Shittsburgh. It just seems like Ozzie steers clear of kids from those schools.

[RAVENOUS52]

Ray would have that kid transformed into a 3-down beast by the 10th game of the season under his tutelage.

Just look at what he's done for Suggs' all-around game.

[baltimore_hokie]

I'm not sure he would fall that far, but depending upon who else was there, I'd have a hard time believing that they wouldn't take him.

That said, I found the following blurb to be interesting (not that I'm saying that I agree with it) - former NFL FO head, Mike Lombardi, explaining why he left Maualuga totally out of the first round of his mock draft:



http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/diner-morning-news-mock-breakdown/

maualuga is a three down guy, alot of the big plays he made in college were in the passing game. he may not be as quick as ray was at the beginning of his career, but him with tarvares in passing situations would be just fine. he is an excellent blitzer and is great in run coverage, and was a consensus top-15 pick before running a slower 40 time. i think he would be a steal.

[Jeremiah W]

I like him, but have not seen him dropping, and am a little wary of USC and Texas guys as well. When you have so much talent around you, it is easy to shine when you are the kind of player that can star on a team like that in hte first place. They tend to disapoint in the NFL because there is no Oregon State on the schedule, they do not have a mismatch at 10 of the 11 spots, and tend to be just average in the NFL when they were studs in big programs. The same argument can be made for the Heisman QBs hat tend to be on goon squads with 4 or 5 NFL targets to throw to and block for them.

[baltimore_hokie]

keith rivers and mayo looks pretty damn solid in the NFL after being surrounded by the same type of talent as maualuga. ray's numbers were arguably more impressive than theirs' too. i'm not saying i absolutely love this guy, but he would most likely be pretty damn good

[claxkeeper]

I would take him if he is there but I wouldent be too excited. IDK I just don't think we need to draft 1st round LB given that Oz could find 3-4 starting LBs in rounds 5-7 if he had to =) and we have such other needs. Still if he is there at 26, take him.

[baltimore_hokie]

yeah, i agree that we could use a WR or DL more, but i think maualuga would definitely be better than any WR that we could get at that point. i think gooden can come in and make an impact next year, but ray could be the next ray to hold down this defense for a decade. whether its DL or LB, i'd like to add some youth and talent to this defense after going offense in the first round frequently in the last several years.

[52decleetzu]

So are we gonna play with 3 ILB when we draft Maualuga?

[baltimore_hokie]

So are we gonna play with 3 ILB when we draft Maualuga?

ray isn't a 3-down guy anymore, so having two young guys for depth and passing situations would be key. is it okay to have add another ILB to the roster if our #2 is a second year 3rd round pick, oz??

[Jeremiah W]

I think if ILB depth was at all an issue in Oz's mind he keeps Greison around at least until after the draft. We still have guys like McClain, Barnes, Burgess and Ayanbadejo to find PT for.

Ray Ray is still the only first day ILB Oz has drafted.

[baltimore_hokie]

I think if ILB depth was at all an issue in Oz's mind he keeps Greison around at least until after the draft. We still have guys like McClain, Barnes, Burgess and Ayanbadejo to find PT for.

Ray Ray is still the only first day ILB Oz has drafted.

you may have a case with mcclain as a long-term answer, but that's a huge drop off from bart to him. barnes and burgess are probably only going to be OLB's. if our future rests in the hands of ayanbadejo at ILB (take a look at the tape of santonio's catch at the end of the second squeelers game, he was completely out of position in the zone after chasing the ball, leaving santonio's spot in the zone open for the TD pass) then we are screwed. we do have a good bit of decent LB's on the roster but it couldn't be hurt to add such a playmaker in college to that mix.

[B-more Ravor]

So are we gonna play with 3 ILB when we draft Maualuga?

If it happened - and I'm certainly not saying that it would - Maualuga and Gooden would compete for Scott's former spot.

Let's face it, while we all hope that Gooden can assume that role, his injury history has to be a concern.

[B-more Ravor]

I think if ILB depth was at all an issue in Oz's mind he keeps Greison around at least until after the draft. We still have guys like McClain, Barnes, Burgess and Ayanbadejo to find PT for.

McClain and Barnes are not suited to play ILB. They are OLBs.

Two years into his career, Burgess has yet to prove that he can stay healthy.

Greisen, quite simply, is too slow and had little impact on ST. A back-up LB needs to contribute on ST.

As such, they hope to upgrade (if not, he could always be re-signed later).

The only true back-up at ILB sure to make the team is Ayanbadejo. But, even he is probably undersized.


Ray Ray is still the only first day ILB Oz has drafted.

We'll Gooden was taken in the 3rd last year, and while technically no longer a first day pick, he would have been in past year when the 3rd round occurred on Day 1.

[Jeremiah W]

McClain and Barnes are not suited to play ILB. They are OLBs.

Two years into his career, Burgess has yet to prove that he can stay healthy.

Greisen, quite simply, is too slow and had little impact on ST. A back-up LB needs to contribute on ST.

As such, they hope to upgrade (if not, he could always be re-signed later).

The only true back-up at ILB sure to make the team is Ayanbadejo. But, even he is probably undersized.



We'll Gooden was taken in the 3rd last year, and while technically no longer a first day pick, he would have been in past year when the 3rd round occurred on Day 1.

It takes most LBs time to develop a feel for coverage and reading at NFL speed. Bart was a slappy OLB type that learned how to play inside. I think Barnes and McClain have the ideal build to play ILB as well as rush the QB like Bart did.

Burgess also looked half decent in coverage before breaking his arm, but that should not be a long term inury concern like blowing a knee or ankle.

[Paintballguy]

I like him, but have not seen him dropping, and am a little wary of USC and Texas guys as well.

There are always exceptions though....

Carson Palmer, Matt Cassell, Troy Polamalu, Junior Seau, Lofa Tatupu, Shaun Rogers, Nathan Vasher, Ricky Williams.

But, I do agree. I would be extra cautious about guys coming from schools like USC or Texas.

[Jeremiah W]

There are always exceptions though....

Carson Palmer, Matt Cassell, Troy Polamalu, Junior Seau, Lofa Tatupu, Shaun Rogers, Nathan Vasher, Ricky Williams.

But, I do agree. I would be extra cautious about guys coming from schools like USC or Texas.

You have to be able to play just to start there, but a lot of times they do not make nearly as much impact in the NFL when you can double or game plan them and not have to worry about all 11.

I was convinced Reggie Bush would be a good player, but not nearly the best player on the board. He was practically untouched in college until he was 5 yards downfeild, and he did not even really start. He was a 3rd down back in college that got a lot of touches, but I could not see him as an LT or Faulk type of feature back with 3rd down skills.

[52decleetzu]

If it happened - and I'm certainly not saying that it would - Maualuga and Gooden would compete for Scott's former spot.

Let's face it, while we all hope that Gooden can assume that role, his injury history has to be a concern.

His injury history is a concern,but lets take the other side-what happens if he stays healthy?Who is the odd man out then?

The Ravens arent going to spend a 3rd round pick on a guy and just potentially throw that away after one year if we take Maualuga or any other ILB.

They apparently like Tavares,and when we have 2 starters already at ILB why create a logjam when we can use that pick on a position of need?

I get the whole BPA line,but to tell me that need doesnt come into play is a little disingenuous,of course it does.How much?That can be put up for debate but it plays a factor I dont care what they say.

Its not like we can say "we'll just put Gooden on the side until Ray is done." By that time Gooden will be entering FA and his contract running out,you need to get production out of your draft picks as early as possible to maximize the cap situation.

I like a lot of the ILB especially Lauranitus but I see no way that we take one in the early part of the draft.

Just my take on it.

[jonboy79]

ILB is one of the more obvious "holes" remaining. What od you propose as positions of actual NEED, if you don't consider ILB?

WR? So you are jsut going to cast aside Clayton, DWil and Figurs?
CB? So Washington get's cast aside?

The fact is, we have a pretty complete roster. we could use talent at WR and TE, depth in the secondary and LBing corps, as well as both lines.

[52decleetzu]

ILB is one of the more obvious "holes" remaining. What od you propose as positions of actual NEED, if you don't consider ILB?

WR? So you are jsut going to cast aside Clayton, DWil and Figurs?
CB? So Washington get's cast aside?

The fact is, we have a pretty complete roster. we could use talent at WR and TE, depth in the secondary and LBing corps, as well as both lines.

A BACKUP ILB might be a position of need later in the draft,but not a first round need by any means....big difference.

As far as true needs,DT(2 or our best 3 are old),CB,3-4 OLB pash rusher,3-4 DE,and WR are areas of need.

[jonboy79]

A BACKUP ILB might be a position of need later in the draft,but not a first round need by any means....big difference.

As far as true needs,DT(2 or our best 3 are old),CB,3-4 OLB pash rusher,3-4 DE,and WR are areas of need.

We sort of need a starter at ILB, we certainly DON'T at DT, we were more then fine last year AND we are GAINING a starter BACK. That is certainly depth further down the ladder.

Gooden is the only penciled in starter we have. Every other position is in pen.

[srobert96]

We sort of need a starter at ILB, we certainly DON'T at DT, we were more then fine last year AND we are GAINING a starter BACK. That is certainly depth further down the ladder.

Gooden is the only penciled in starter we have. Every other position is in pen.

I don't think anyone you draft would start over Gooden as a replacement of Scott. Only the coaching staff knows how much ILB is a position of need. If the staff is completely comfortable with Gooden as Scotts replacement it is a lesser need. If the staff feels that Burgess, Gooden and Mclain could fill the two the ILB spots it is not that much of a need. If they are not sold on those guys in those roles than it could possibly be a first or second rd need.

My needs: WR, Replacement for Pryce, ILB, CB, OL

[srobert96]

you may have a case with mcclain as a long-term answer, but that's a huge drop off from bart to him. barnes and burgess are probably only going to be OLB's. if our future rests in the hands of ayanbadejo at ILB (take a look at the tape of santonio's catch at the end of the second squeelers game, he was completely out of position in the zone after chasing the ball, leaving santonio's spot in the zone open for the TD pass) then we are screwed. we do have a good bit of decent LB's on the roster but it couldn't be hurt to add such a playmaker in college to that mix.

I don't think it is fair to say that it would be huge drop off from Scott to Mclain. These things were said about Scott when Hartwell left as well. Scott was an undrafted free agent as well.

I think upgrading the wr position is important but I do agree that the Ravens need to start looking at getting the next ILB and the next Pryce on the roster. Also need to start looking at the replacement for Birk as well. Usually takes Olineman a year or two before they can start.

I have heard that Burgess would absolutely be a stud if he got his head into it. I heard he has a bad attitude and does not work real hard. Maybe the light will come on for him.

[NC Raven]

Ray Lewis isn't going to play forever (despite the length of his current contract....). It makes sense to get his heir apparent on board now, before filling the position becomes a full-on "need." It'd be awesome to actually have Ray around to groom his own replacement, and for his replacement to have a year or two to see, hear, observe and understand the role he'd be stepping into. Makes more sense than waiting for Ray to retire, then going, "oh sh*t, we need a new ILB!!" Planning ahead instead of reacting..... what a concept!

If someone available in the draft fits the profile, then by all means, I'd say go for it. Don't know if Maulauga is that or not, but until the one poster earlier in the thread said something about him not being a three down player (which I've never heard) I had only ever heard great things about him.

[12jg34]

We sort of need a starter at ILB, we certainly DON'T at DT, we were more then fine last year AND we are GAINING a starter BACK. That is certainly depth further down the ladder.

Gooden is the only penciled in starter we have. Every other position is in pen.

I think DT would be a wise investment or 3-4 DE, esp ones with pass rushing ability. The Ravens don't generate much of a pass rush without blitzing. They don't have a DT/DE who can collapse the pocket other than Pryce. I think DT/DE is the second, if not first, biggest need on the team.

[Dave Lap]

I would be shocked if the Ravens drafted Maualuga in the first. I have yet to see the Ravens draft a kid from USC or Texas. Players from those schools are known for being soft and usually don't play up to their hype. There are exceptions like the safety in Shittsburgh. It just seems like Ozzie steers clear of kids from those schools.

I'd be careful of using this kind of logic when drafting players. It makes little sense. Every kid is different and the school he attends makes about as much difference as the color of his hair.

[jonboy79]

I think DT would be a wise investment or 3-4 DE, esp ones with pass rushing ability. The Ravens don't generate much of a pass rush without blitzing. They don't have a DT/DE who can collapse the pocket other than Pryce. I think DT/DE is the second, if not first, biggest need on the team.

I don't deny the need, but disagree on the level of need.

Personally, I think it is one of the five biggest needs, and none of them are particularly more important then the others. TE, WR, CB, LB, DE. With that, we could really use help both outside and inside at LB.

Maybe ILB is our biggest need? Because here is a scary thought...

What is our LBing crew if Ray goes out?
Suggs- Gooden-Ayanbadejo- JJ

[Jeremiah W]

I'd be careful of using this kind of logic when drafting players. It makes little sense. Every kid is different and the school he attends makes about as much difference as the color of his hair.

No, that is like saying the color of the uniforms do not matter. The scheme, surrounding talent, the competition, the big game pressure and having dealt with the media and expectations are all part of the evaluation. You can not say do not draft a guy from Florida who played WR, but you have to factor in the history a little bit when ranking them.

[Rxdoxx]

Oz has plugged holes pretty nicely, so BPA is the game plan.

I find myself looking at "next man up" to really determine need priority.
Who is there if Ray or Pryce or Washington or Heap goes down?

Heap can be compensated for with personell schemes.
Are we comfortable with Foxworth as primary and Carr/Martin on the other side?
I can see BA giving us a game, but he sure will be game-planned for if Ray is out any extended time.
Pryce leaves the biggest hole IMO. Not only in ability, but rotation that will kill any freshness in the 4th Q, but we have to be lucky for a true first rounder there to drop that far.

[Jeremiah W]

I don't deny the need, but disagree on the level of need.

Personally, I think it is one of the five biggest needs, and none of them are particularly more important then the others. TE, WR, CB, LB, DE. With that, we could really use help both outside and inside at LB.

Maybe ILB is our biggest need? Because here is a scary thought...

What is our LBing crew if Ray goes out?
Suggs- Gooden-Ayanbadejo- JJ

ILB has never been a hard position to find on the street. Guys like Slaughter, Grieson and Tommy Polley can be found off the wire and fill in on a weeks notice.

The pass rushers who are every down players are a real premium because there just are not guys available that can do it and just potential for it will make you a top 10 pick like Gholston and Chris Long, Mario Williams and my man Juilus Peppers are well worth the price of a top pick or two if they pan out.

I do not think most middle linebackers make as much difference as Ray does, and even he does not do enough without a pass rush. 2007 fell apart when Pryce went down. That is when we found out the back up CBs could not cover, but I think affecting how much time a QB has and how much pressure he feels, how much he wants to avoid another hit, is the best way to make the coverage solid. The SD corner tandem that was looking like the best in the NFL with Merriman gettin 17 sacks and tons of pressure, turned into the dead last unit in the NFL when he went down. They went from a SB favorite to a team that needed a late run to make it to 8 and 8.

[jonboy79]

Oz has plugged holes pretty nicely, so BPA is the game plan.

I find myself looking at "next man up" to really determine need priority.
Who is there if Ray or Pryce or Washington or Heap goes down?

Heap can be compensated for with personell schemes.
Are we comfortable with Foxworth as primary and Carr/Martin on the other side?
I can see BA giving us a game, but he sure will be game-planned for if Ray is out any extended time.
Pryce leaves the biggest hole IMO. Not only in ability, but rotation that will kill any freshness in the 4th Q, but we have to be lucky for a true first rounder there to drop that far.


Really? Pryce to Gregg, or Pryce to Bannan, and even then Edwards and even McKinney, you feel is the harshest step down, worse then Ray to BA?

[Gabrosin]

I don't believe Malauga will fall to us, but I think we would take him if he did.

I still believe that the Ravens are going to wind up with James Laurinitis in the first round.

[B-more Ravor]

It takes most LBs time to develop a feel for coverage and reading at NFL speed. Bart was a slappy OLB type that learned how to play inside. I think Barnes and McClain have the ideal build to play ILB as well as rush the QB like Bart did.


Both are built like OLBs, not ILBs. Neither has ever played ILB. It remains to be seen whether they can take on and shed blockers in traffic and make plays.


ILB has never been a hard position to find on the street. Guys like Slaughter, Grieson and Tommy Polley can be found off the wire and fill in on a weeks notice.


None of those guys came off of the street and played on a weeks notice. All of them were signed in the offseason and had been with the team and knew the Defensive scheme when they were called upon.

[B-more Ravor]

I don't think it is fair to say that it would be huge drop off from Scott to Mclain. These things were said about Scott when Hartwell left as well. Scott was an undrafted free agent as well.



Scott didn't replace Hartwell, Polley did. Scott only got his chance to start after Ray got hurt that year.

And, yes, Scott was undrafted, but he didn't prove that he could be a starter - and start on the inside - until his 4th year. McClain is only in his 2nd year.

[Jeremiah W]

Scott didn't replace Hartwell, Polley did. Scott only got his chance to start after Ray got hurt that year.

And, yes, Scott was undrafted, but he didn't prove that he could be a starter - and start on the inside - until his 4th year. McClain is only in his 2nd year.

I still think you can put almost any back up NFL inside LB behind Nagta and Buddy Lee or Bannan and Pryce, and he will make tackles. Maybe not after only 2.8 ypc, but no worse than 3.8 ypc. Ray Lewis is a difference maker, but it is the guys up front and Bart knocking the FB down that lets Ray rattle runningbacks one on one and not have to wory about shedding blocks very often.

[B-more Ravor]

I still think you can put almost any back up NFL inside LB behind Nagta and Buddy Lee or Bannan and Pryce, and he will make tackles. Maybe not after only 2.8 ypc, but no worse than 3.8 ypc. Ray Lewis is a difference maker, but it is the guys up front and Bart knocking the FB down that lets Ray rattle runningbacks one on one and not have to wory about shedding blocks very often.

Perhaps, but if that was the case, then why did the Ravens offer Scott so much in order to try and keep him? They certainly weren't paying him that much to simply take on blockers.

I would agree that you don't necessarily need a superstar at ILB - and a lot of team aren't willing to pay top dollar on ILBs - but that doesn't mean that you can plug just anyone in there and have them play well.

[Rxdoxx]

Really? Pryce to Gregg, or Pryce to Bannan, and even then Edwards and even McKinney, you feel is the harshest step down, worse then Ray to BA?

Not really saying that, focused more on the pressure that can be generated in the 4Q when the D-line has gotten some rest.
When we had Adams/Goose, Adams played what 60% and Goose about 50% of the plays. Our D could dominate at the end of games.
Have seen too many teams that can hang close for the first 3Q and the game steamrolls away from them in the fourth. That is the D-line is worn down.
We have an adequate rotation, but no one equivalent to Pryce's push (and if he is out Sizzle gets doubled).

You are right, it is a bigger drop off in Ray to BA, but scheme can compensate a little. A weakened 4th Q pass rush can only be helped by a lot of blitzing.
Not saying the biggest hole is there, just saying I don't see any "next man up" to keep our corners from late toastings.
Do we try Haloti there and try to compensate in the middle? Do we have JJ go back to his college DE position? Pryce is the only true DE that I see.

[jonboy79]

See, but our defense is built around stopping the run and putting the opponents into third and long. I doubt Mattison will stray from that theory. We will likely be taking a step down from Bart Scott in that area no matter who fills his shoes, but it gets even more dire if Ray Ray goes down. If we can't stop the run, we may not be a dominant defense to worry about getting them into third downs.
I'm not saying we have to draft an ILB in round 1, simply stating that is a rather thin area, that shouldn't be avoided. A player valued well above our first round draft spot that falls and becomes available, is a viable target indeed.

[B-more Ravor]

See, but our defense is built around stopping the run and putting the opponents into third and long. I doubt Mattison will stray from that theory. We will likely be taking a step down from Bart Scott in that area no matter who fills his shoes, but it gets even more dire if Ray Ray goes down. If we can't stop the run, we may not be a dominant defense to worry about getting them into third downs.
I'm not saying we have to draft an ILB in round 1, simply stating that is a rather thin area, that shouldn't be avoided. A player valued well above our first round draft spot that falls and becomes available, is a viable target indeed.

Agreed.

[Sua Sponte]

We could use players in a few positions.
Bottom line like the Oz said we are going to take the best player on the board.

[Stealthbirds80]

I just don't think we are in the market for a LB in the first round. The first and second rounds I think are for improving Cam's offense with more if his type players. Big WR and may be a more balanced run blocking and pass catching TE or another center/tackle for the future, but who knows who will be available by pick 26. Best available player.

[B-more Ravor]

I just don't think we are in the market for a LB in the first round. The first and second rounds I think are for improving Cam's offense with more if his type players. Big WR and may be a more balanced run blocking and pass catching TE or another center/tackle for the future, but who knows who will be available by pick 26. Best available player.


I would agree that I'm sure their preference is for an offensive guy that they really like to be there at 26.

I've always felt that the BPA theory is just that a theory, in that they will slant their board toward need. For instance, if Stafford is there at 26 (not that he's going to be) they wouldn't take him, even though he would be far and away their highest ranked player at that point.

So, as you said, it's going to depend on who is there and how far apart they rate the players. If Maualuga is their 12th rated player, for instance, and their 15th rated player is a WR (Macklin, let's say) and both are still there, I would think they would take Macklin, even though he would technically not be the BPA. But, if Maualuga is there and the next highest ranked player is in the 20's, then I would think they would take Maualuga, even if it's not perhaps as great of a need.

[Stealthbirds80]

Your right, they will definately not take certain players that they don't have need for like a Stafford. They willl trade up or down to get who they want at the right price and position. Also remember OZ is the ultimate pro, if his guy isn't there at 26, but someone else they want will be there and maybe at 31, he will trade down to pick up another pick and get his guy at that position. A offensive player is definately a go.

[Rxdoxx]

If a position that we don't need has someone fall to us (QB/RB) I can see us trading the pick if our elite list is otherwise picked clean.

Assuming that a team has used its 1st rounder and doesn't have one to swap, what is the fair asking price? Next year's 1st and how much more?
At least the second this year? and a 3rd? or swap 3rds if we move up a lot?
(I lost the link for pick point values).

[jonboy79]

If a position that we don't need has someone fall to us (QB/RB) I can see us trading the pick if our elite list is otherwise picked clean.

Assuming that a team has used its 1st rounder and doesn't have one to swap, what is the fair asking price? Next year's 1st and how much more?
At least the second this year? and a 3rd? or swap 3rds if we move up a lot?
(I lost the link for pick point values).

Sounds like a Boller situation... Late first for a relatively early second and the next year's first.

[baltimore_hokie]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/


i agree, another first rounder would be nice for next year to go along with the last pick in the first...