Can Ozzie add some 'Pepper"s to the Ravens?? [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

Jeremiah W

03-18-2009, 10:26 AM

I have been dreaming of getting him here opposite Suzzle ever since he said he wanted out of Carolina and wanted to play in a different scheme.

I think he wants to play here, and has turned down a Haynesworth type of deal, and has not yet signed his 17m tender. Because he is unsigned, he can not be traded, and can talk to other teams. The Panthers seem desperate to keep him or get max value more likley, but can not really afford to pay a guy 17m who may hold out.

The Ravens could not afford to put him on the roster at 17m, and I do not see Oz giving up all those draft picks. It would be great to see it happen, but it may have to wait until next year if at all. I just can't see adding a player of that money under the cap, but then again, how in F did the Skins sign Haynesworth and Hall when they were already "over the cap"???

Jeremiah W

03-18-2009, 10:46 AM

srobert96

03-18-2009, 12:29 PM

Goodness gracious.

I think Peppers would destroy the sack record in this defense. If you thought his game was slipping. It aint. Notice in the highlights how he tends to be the only guy anywhere near the Qb when he nearly destroys them on contact.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80eae4f2

I know this is just the pro bowl, but the display of power and quickness Peppers displayed is freakish and frightening. He would be worth almost any price on second thought.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80eae4f2

I know he only had 2.5 sacks 2 years ago, and I have seen him get blocked 1 on 1, but this guy would be the first pick in the draft if he were in it, and Detroit would just love to give him 100 million dollars, (45 over the first 4)

the cap is a sham anyway and is going away next year for at least a year. Make it happen. We can not let the Pats get him for a 2nd round pick and draft a pass rusher with #26 we hope may be half as good.

I think his sack numbers would go down in our defense. In our defense the OLB are not pass rush specialist. They are required to drop back in coverage as well as rush the passer. In the 4-3 which Peppers is better suited he is getting after the QB on every passing play. Suggs had his highest total number of sacks in his rookie year when he did not understand the OLB position and was only used as a situation pass rusher. At 29 he is going to start losing a step which will make him even less effective as OLB. NFL scouts feel his to tall and stiff to cover anybody from an OLB spot as it is. He also has played DE every year back to high school and is now going to try and learn a new position. In a couple of years he would be a great replacement for Trevor Pryce's position. He would also be great get for a 4-3 team. I am a little perplexed as to why he is do dead set on being an OLB in a 3-4.

The uncapped year is not really uncapped. There are all kinds of provisions that really limit what a team can spend. The Owners will lockout the players before they have a completely uncapped year.

section553

03-18-2009, 12:32 PM

Not a shot. Where do you find the cap space?

Jeremiah W

03-18-2009, 12:46 PM

I think his sack numbers would go down in our defense. In our defense the OLB are not pass rush specialist. They are required to drop back in coverage as well as rush the passer. In the 4-3 which Peppers is better suited he is getting after the QB on every passing play. Suggs had his highest total number of sacks in his rookie year when he did not understand the OLB position and was only used as a situation pass rusher. At 29 he is going to start losing a step which will make him even less effective as OLB. NFL scouts feel his to tall and stiff to cover anybody from an OLB spot as it is. He also has played DE every year back to high school and is now going to try and learn a new position. In a couple of years he would be a great replacement for Trevor Pryce's position. He would also be great get for a 4-3 team. I am a little perplexed as to why he is do dead set on being an OLB in a 3-4.

The uncapped year is not really uncapped. There are all kinds of provisions that really limit what a team can spend. The Owners will lockout the players before they have a completely uncapped year.

I would have him attacking the backfeild on 90% of his snaps, and I would have him play every thinng in the front 7 at some point in the season for a play or two.

I have heard some stuff about maybe he can't cover, but I have actually seen him cover, pick off passes and take them to the house. I also saw him go up and catch a TD in the redzone like he used to grab rebounds over Lonnie Baxter.

Did you watch those clips from last year? I have a hard time trying imagine him doing any worse in coverage than Suggs or Jarret Johnson have done, and more likley would be as good or much better than Adalius Thomas was in this defense.

The money on the table talks a lot louder than the scouts reports this time of year. He has already turned down top dollar, and is looking for top dollar and the top situation. It is hard to imagine a better defense to get numbers in than this, particuarally if the offense continues to put pressure on the other side to keep up.

The way this off season is going, and what I am hearing from guys like Billick on the radio is the cap is going away, and it should not be too hard to circumvent it for one year, like Washington and Dallas appear to have done already.

RavenScallywag

03-18-2009, 12:46 PM

Jeremiah W

03-18-2009, 12:58 PM

if we look at each move that has been made:

1. Suggs - tagged to lock up young pass rusher temporarily while we continue working out a long term deal
2. Foxworth - younger CB, faster
3. Ray Lewis - PR move, also tutor for younger LBs
4. Matt Birk - stalwart C to fill hole, cheaper than re-signing departing FA
5. Chris Carr - boost return game, get younger at CB
6. L.J. Smith? - fill Wilcox spot

...I don't think any of these moves indicate "load up for a SB run". Suggs is a guy we want to lock up long term because he'll be the best pass rusher we have. Foxworth and Carr bring some needed youth and speed to our secondary. Birk and Ray Lewis are both guys who can "coach up" younger players until they retire. L.J. Smith is a 1 year cheap rental to provide us TE depth.

Bringing in Peppers would require a great deal of cap space. He's 3 years older than Suggs and if we do trade for him, technically we only have him for one year, unless we work out a long term deal with him.

Do the math...long term deal with Peppers and Suggs, along with current deal for Ray, will lock up TONS of money in our LB corps. Meanwhile, we still have pressing need at WR, still looking for our long term C after Birk, will still need to replace Pryce after next year or re-sign him....Ngata has a few more years on his deal, but the key is, we're going to need some space down the road to lock up guys like Ngata. If we bring in Peppers and lock him up for 3 years or so, his big contract year would likely be right when Ngata is scheduled to hit FA.

I say no to Peppers...I'd rather see some young LBs/DEs step up than spend a fortune to bring him in and leave other needs to the wayside.

How many young guys do we have that are going to need huge contracts soon? I keep hearing all this stuff about Nagta, but he is most likley going to get tagged for 2 years before free agency like Haynesworth was, or extended at a discount early.

Grubbs is going to need near top of the market G money, or we could just draft another G in the 1st round.

Suggs is in the long term plans I guess, but our Cbs are very cheap compared to top tandems out there. We have all of them lokced up long term for less than C mac was scheduled to make.

Pryce, Gregg, Ray and the older big money defensive players are not going to be around chewing up cap space (if there is a cap) and that money has to go somewhere, and a top notch DE is always a safe place to invest big dollars.

Do not get all caught up in what position he says he wants to play. They will tell him, like Bill Cowher told Jason Gildon way back in the day while spitting in his face a little, "Your job, is to rush, the quarter back!"
He does that as good as Bruce Smith used to, and I would go close to all out to make it happen.

psuasskicker

03-18-2009, 01:12 PM

I have heard some stuff about maybe he can't cover, but I have actually seen him cover, pick off passes and take them to the house.

No you haven't. Do you know how I know you haven't? Cause he has only one INT returned for a TD in his career. No one here mistakes Suggs for a pass defender. He can do it, but it's not his specialty, and he does it a helluva lot better than Peppers.

There's one person on this board that thinks we have a legit shot at Peppers. This isn't even a conversation worth having. It wasn't the first time we had it.

- C -

4G63

03-18-2009, 01:22 PM

Here's a crazy thought. Why don't we get Suggs signed long-term first (or trade him for Bolden) before we worry about signing another "big-name" defensive star?!?

srobert96

03-18-2009, 01:23 PM

Washington and Dallas have not circumvented the cap.

If Dallas were going to circumvent the cap they would never had let Canty get away. Who has Dallas signed of significance?

Washington removed Springs, Taylor and a few other players from their roster before signing Haynesworth and Hall. They still have more holes than swiss cheese and little to no depth along both lines. That is what happens when you wrap up big dollars in a few high profile free agents every year.

An NFL personnel source was quoted as saying that Peppers is too stiff in the hips to be able to cover people. I believe the Interception return for a TD was tipped ball at the line of scrimmage.

Peppers is great in the 4-3 but does not necessarily mean he will be great at a new position in a new defense.

One of the staples of the 3-4 is that the offense does not know who is going to blitz and who is going to drop back. With Peppers rushing the QB all the time you would lose that advantage and at that point you might as well just play a 4-3.

ace2die

03-18-2009, 03:45 PM

THis thread is going back and forth about if Peppers would fit. Peppers is Trevor Pryce 5 years ago. If I remember correctly Pryce is a constant pass rush element on our line. Peppers has said he perfers the right side as SUggs perfers the left. Great match!! Go and get him!!

Ok who has been down to tent city scoring some crack? The cap will not allow any of this pipe dreamin to come to reality, unless the uncapped year was now.:rocking:

BArellano

03-18-2009, 04:06 PM

It would be nice, but it simply isn't going to happen. We can't afford it under the cap and Ozzie won't give up the necessary picks to get him. So back to reality................ SUGGS FOR BOLDIN STRAIGHT UP!!!!!

:261695:

StingerNLG

03-18-2009, 07:16 PM

No you haven't. Do you know how I know you haven't? Cause he has only one INT returned for a TD in his career. No one here mistakes Suggs for a pass defender. He can do it, but it's not his specialty, and he does it a helluva lot better than Peppers.

There's one person on this board that thinks we have a legit shot at Peppers. This isn't even a conversation worth having. It wasn't the first time we had it.

- C -

Damnit, you beat me to it. :) Maybe it was the one and only game he saw? It would have been in 2004.

Oh, and the man only has 4 picks in his career too. He went 4 seperate years without a pick at all.

Research can be your friend.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PeppJu99.htm

Jeremiah W

03-18-2009, 08:24 PM

Damnit, you beat me to it. :) Maybe it was the one and only game he saw? It would have been in 2004.

Oh, and the man only has 4 picks in his career too. He went 4 seperate years without a pick at all.

Research can be your friend.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PeppJu99.htm

So sorry, must have confused it with one of his fumble returns that went for a touchdown. He does have 2 touchdowns, about 70.5 sacks, 25 forced fumbles, that is a lot, about the type of tackles and pass defense numbers you could hope for from a 2 gap DE.

StingerNLG

03-18-2009, 10:51 PM

So sorry, must have confused it with one of his fumble returns that went for a touchdown. He does have 2 touchdowns, about 70.5 sacks, 25 forced fumbles, that is a lot, about the type of tackles and pass defense numbers you could hope for from a 2 gap DE.

Wow.

You must have confused it with the ONLY fumble return that went for a touchdown. Which, if you actually looked at the link, was in the same year as the other score.

:grbac:

B-more Ravor

03-18-2009, 11:29 PM

I think he [Peppers} wants to play here...............

LOL - based on what?!?!?!? :confused:

............. but then again, how in F did the Skins sign Haynesworth and Hall when they were already "over the cap"???

The way this off season is going, and what I am hearing from guys like Billick on the radio is the cap is going away, and it should not be too hard to circumvent it for one year, like Washington and Dallas appear to have done already.

Washington was under the cap when the offseason began on Feb 27th. They released some guys and restructured some deals to get under and create the cap space necessary to sign guys.

Neither the Skins nor Dallas have ever circumvented the Cap.

No team has ever gone over the Cap simply because the league would not approve any contract that would put the team over. Two teams were penalized draft picks for not reporting certain agreements that were outside of the standard contract. Those should have been reported as part of the contract and counted against the Cap.

psuasskicker

03-19-2009, 12:05 AM

Research can be your friend.

Yeah, the problem is that the little research he does, half of it turns out to be wrong.

LOL - based on what?!?!?!? :confused:

Based on his same inside sources that tell him Fridge told Turner never to throw it into double coverage even though he's got a super-stud WR in the middle of it.

- C -

Jeremiah W

03-20-2009, 02:55 PM

The Pats already have Seymour, Wilfork and Adalius Thomas making more money than Pryce, Nagta and Suggs combined, as well as more than double the money in the WR and Qb spots.

The Ravens also run a 3-4, a little better than NE last I checked, and also actually made the playoffs without having to rely on hall of fame level Qb play.

Also who cares what position he says he wants to play? He is the best DE in the NFL since Bruce Smith left Buffalo, only 29 and built more like Reggie White. His job would be to rush the QB, like Merriman, Ware and Harrison, and I think he would be good for 20 sacks a year including the playoffs.

Who do we actually have playing DE? Pryce is DT/DE, Sizz is OLB/ DE, and Peppers would fit right into the mix of our front 7 where you never really even know who is a lineman and who is a LB. He can also present a huge target in the red zone on offense, and any Terp fan can remember him grabbing sky and every rebound.

There is only one guy like him in the NFL, and he may actually be good enough to consider giving up the traditional full compensation of 2 1st round picks, and I am sure that next years pick will be no higher than 26, and most likely 32. Unlike any draft pick, Peppers is a proven all pro player, and looked like the best player in the NFL at the pro bowl. He really is a franchise player.

psuasskicker

03-20-2009, 03:44 PM

The Pats already have Seymour, Wilfork and Adalius Thomas making more money than Pryce, Nagta and Suggs combined, as well as more than double the money in the WR and Qb spots.

...

Who do we actually have playing DE? Pryce is DT/DE, Sizz is OLB/ DE, and Peppers would fit right into the mix of our front 7 where you never really even know who is a lineman and who is a LB. He can also present a huge target in the red zone on offense, and any Terp fan can remember him grabbing sky and every rebound.

There is only one guy like him in the NFL, and he may actually be good enough to consider giving up the traditional full compensation of 2 1st round picks, and I am sure that next years pick will be no higher than 26, and most likely 32.

Someone needs to pinch you and wake you up cause those are some powerful dreams you're trapped in...

- C -

Jeremiah W

03-20-2009, 04:04 PM

Someone needs to pinch you and wake you up cause those are some powerful dreams you're trapped in...

- C -

Look, I know it sounds crazy but Peppers currently is a free agent. The Ravens can sign him to an offersheet, and if the Panthers do not match it, they get him for this years 1st round pick, and next years, #32.

There is a good chance he will be the best defensive player in the NFl for the next 5 years. He is only 29 and already has 70.5 sacks. There is no doubt he is a top 3 DE in the NFL and he is on the market. Other than Trevor Pryce the Ravens do not have a true defensive end on the roster, and if Peppers were to be added to this draft class, he would be the #1 overall pick, and I would bet that a team or 10 would also be willing to trade next years #1 to move up and make the selection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT4Hx2FyTh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sQOExoQK8

Another thing, how many big money players do we actually have on the roster. CMac and Rolle are gone, Brown and Bart walked, Ray ended up taking a hometown discount afterall. Birk got a smallish deal, Foxworth took a hometown discount literally.

We do not have a big money WR, our franchise LT was a 5th round supplimental. the only big money vets we have in second contracts I can think of are Reed, Heap and Jarret Johnson. Heap and Reed set the market at the time but at low money positions. Willis is another, did not think of right away, but his cap number could come down with a restucture or something. There are not nearly as many high salary guys on the team as it is made out to be, and I would be willing to see some of them go to make room for Peppers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCOSIes1Ods

Stealthbirds80

03-21-2009, 11:47 AM

I admit he would be a good fit, but not at his price and our cap room. Good wish though.

Jeremiah W

03-21-2009, 01:08 PM

I admit he would be a good fit, but not at his price and our cap room. Good wish though.

I just looked at the salary cap spread sheet made by the money clip guy, (http://profootball24x7.com/content_docs/2009RavensSalaryShortform-Ruleof51-3-10-09.xls)and just read up on his last stuff. The Ravens do not have very many big money players, and of the ones they do, some could be restructured or extended in the case of Suggs and create 8-10 M in cap room without even cutting anyone else.

Frank Walker, Willy Anderson and a few other guys even fan favorites like Buddy Lee, who we got by OK without, could go to make room for a contract like Peppers.

After this upcoming season, over 10 mil in dead money from McNair and J.O. comes off the books, as well as whatever cap hit they had to eat for cutting C Mac and Rolle, and guys like Pryce, Ray and Gregg are not going to be around much longer than next season especially if we win the SB.

The Ravens tend to use as much cap space as they can, but do not really seem to be as up against it as any of the other teams Peppers is rumoured to be interested in.

I feel like Peppers is the best DE in the NFL, and possibly the best player of his generation. His impact on the team could be much more than McCrary or Pryce. He could be an every down player that draws double blocking or will create havok. I think with Peppers, Suggs and Nagta, we could get legit pressure with a 3 man rush. Bring a Pryce, JJ, Barnes or a one man extra blitz and even Cory Ivy could cover long enough to get the Qb off his spot.

We did enough for the offense last year to build on and flourish. To beat the Steelers and win the SB, we need to get Ben on the ground with 4 man pressure.

Rayvens52

03-21-2009, 01:55 PM

I just looked at the salary cap spread sheet made by the money clip guy, (http://profootball24x7.com/content_docs/2009RavensSalaryShortform-Ruleof51-3-10-09.xls)and just read up on his last stuff. The Ravens do not have very many big money players, and of the ones they do, some could be restructured or extended in the case of Suggs and create 8-10 M in cap room without even cutting anyone else.

Frank Walker, Willy Anderson and a few other guys even fan favorites like Buddy Lee, who we got by OK without, could go to make room for a contract like Peppers.

After this upcoming season, over 10 mil in dead money from McNair and J.O. comes off the books, as well as whatever cap hit they had to eat for cutting C Mac and Rolle, and guys like Pryce, Ray and Gregg are not going to be around much longer than next season especially if we win the SB.

The Ravens tend to use as much cap space as they can, but do not really seem to be as up against it as any of the other teams Peppers is rumoured to be interested in.

I feel like Peppers is the best DE in the NFL, and possibly the best player of his generation. His impact on the team could be much more than McCrary or Pryce. He could be an every down player that draws double blocking or will create havok. I think with Peppers, Suggs and Nagta, we could get legit pressure with a 3 man rush. Bring a Pryce, JJ, Barnes or a one man extra blitz and even Cory Ivy could cover long enough to get the Qb off his spot.

We did enough for the offense last year to build on and flourish. To beat the Steelers and win the SB, we need to get Ben on the ground with 4 man pressure.

You keep dreaming buddy. There is zero chance we land Peppers I doubt we even speak to his agent. You think he is not going to demand Hansworth type money, and we have a lot of our own guys we need to lock up in the next 2 years. I am not saying I would not love him on our team but there is as much of a chance of him coming here as there was the Lions wining a game last year!

To think we have enough on offense is laughable, we do not have a legit #1 WR, yes Mason is good but he is a #2 and our #3 is average on a good day. I love the signing of L.J. but we have two injury prone TE's, we have several positions on O we need to work onto even begi to say our O will flourish and to even want our team to spend the kind of money Peppers would want would only hurt this team!

Jeremiah W

03-21-2009, 02:11 PM

You keep dreaming buddy. There is zero chance we land Peppers I doubt we even speak to his agent. You think he is not going to demand Hansworth type money, and we have a lot of our own guys we need to lock up in the next 2 years. I am not saying I would not love him on our team but there is as much of a chance of him coming here as there was the Lions wining a game last year!

To think we have enough on offense is laughable, we do not have a legit #1 WR, yes Mason is good but he is a #2 and our #3 is average on a good day. I love the signing of L.J. but we have two injury prone TE's, we have several positions on O we need to work onto even begi to say our O will flourish and to even want our team to spend the kind of money Peppers would want would only hurt this team!

I don't really care about any of "our own guys" coming up for contacts other than Nagta and Suggs. The fact that we have no #1 Wr, no J.O., no C Mac, Rolle, we did not keep Bart and Brown, should mean they have some money to spend in the future and can make some room right now.

I would get rid of Pryce and Gregg, Heap, whoever if it came down to it and they won't restructure. If NE can find he money the Ravens can. Look at how many late round draft picks and undrafted guys we have on the 53 man roster. The Ravens can find role players, there is only one Julius Peppers. The guy is better than Suggs, and I love me some Sizzle. I also like Jarrett Johnson a lot, but he can go too if he is not going to get 10 sacks a season or be a dynamic coverage guy.

The money is there. I am not sure if it would be the best long term move to do all that is required to make a move like this happen, but if anyone is actually worth Haynesworth's money, it is Peppers. he has already turned down deals like that and made it known he wants to play in a scheme like ours, and on a team like ours.

Rayvens52

03-21-2009, 02:21 PM

I don't really care about any of "our own guys" coming up for contacts other than Nagta and Suggs. The fact that we have no #1 Wr, no J.O., no C Mac, Rolle, we did not keep Bart and Brown, should mean they have some money to spend in the future and can make some room right now.

I would get rid of Pryce and Gregg, Heap, whoever if it came down to it and they won't restructure. If NE can find he money the Ravens can. Look at how many late round draft picks and undrafted guys we have on the 53 man roster. The Ravens can find role players, there is only one Julius Peppers. The guy is better than Suggs, and I love me some Sizzle. I also like Jarrett Johnson a lot, but he can go too if he is not going to get 10 sacks a season or be a dynamic coverage guy.

The money is there. I am not sure if it would be the best long term move to do all that is required to make a move like this happen, but if anyone is actually worth Haynesworth's money, it is Peppers. he has already turned down deals like that and made it known he wants to play in a scheme like ours, and on a team like ours.

Again I agree he is a very good player but to say we should cut 4 players to make room for 1 is just plain crazy. You want the Ravens to spend 100 million on peppers now and then Ngata will demand it next year and you got to sign suggs...come on it is a nice fantasy but again there is zero chance Ozzie is even willing to consider this move, we have never been a team to make a huge move in free agency and to think we will be able to make enough guys restructure thier contracts so we can get him is just crazy. I love how people think Brady really helped his team and took some huge pay cut to help them out, have you seen how back loaded that contract is. Look we need alot on thisteam to be SB champs and to want to blow our wad on peppers and cut multiple players to make it happen just does not make sense man, our D is fine we need help on the O!

psuasskicker

03-21-2009, 02:25 PM

This is a stupid topic and I can't believe I've spent any time actually reading this stuff.

0% chance that it happens.

- C -

Jeremiah W

03-21-2009, 02:46 PM

This is a stupid topic and I can't believe I've spent any time actually reading this stuff.

0% chance that it happens.

- C -

There you go again with the 0% nonsense.

Why would the Ravens not want Peppers? Seriously give me one reason other than money. It would be complicated and expensive but worth looking into. The fact that NE is trying to get him should be argument enough that we can and should.

Tom Brady/ Joe Flacco
Maroney, Fred Taylor and a bunch of big young RBs
Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Joey Galloway and the other free anents and high draft picks they have gone through recently have to dwarf the money the Ravens have in the Wr core.
They have a 1st round TE, 1st and 2nd round O line, no Gaithers in the mix just guys like Grubbs and Chester.

On D they have Seymore making more than Pryce. Wilfork is in 1st contract so makes about Nagta money, but they kicked out cash for AD and have had a stable of vet lbs that have been close to the cost of the Raven LBs.
They let Samuel play under the tag before walking and have brought in a lot of vet bodies at DB, rarely getting starting production from guys in the 5th like Landry or off the street like Leonard.

You can do the same thing with other rosters in the NFL. There are teams spending more on players than we are. If we backload some contracts and kick out some bonus money or what ever it is they do to stay in contetion for talent, the Ravens can do, but normally choose not to.

When is the last time the Ravens made a big free agent splash on D? Getting McCrarry, Adams, Goose and Woodson put a team that was close over the top, and it is worth it even if you have to start over again in 2 years.

psuasskicker

03-21-2009, 06:50 PM

Why would the Ravens not want Peppers? Seriously give me one reason other than money.

1) We already have a young pass rushing specialist who's looking for $20MM - $30MM in guaranteed money.

2) We are up against the cap.

3) We have already spent money on a bunch of free agent signings this off-season to plug holes, and DE isn't a hole.

4) We don't want to give up the draft picks it would take to get him onto the roster (before then paying him $25MM+).

5) We have a lot of other needs that are more pressing.

And you're right. It's not 0%...I just rounded. Lemme give the actual number.

0.00000000000000000001%

- C -

purplepoe

03-21-2009, 06:53 PM

Let's just offer Carolina our 4th rounder and be done with it.

PP

StingerNLG

03-21-2009, 07:30 PM

Seriously give me one reason other than money.

So we're playing Madden '09 now and money doesn't matter??

:grbac:

Jeremiah W

03-21-2009, 10:58 PM

So we're playing Madden '09 now and money doesn't matter??

:grbac:

It does matter, but someone explain exactly how much cap room we have and find me some football reason it does not make sense.

I am tired of replacing premium free agents with medium. Where is all the money? J.O., McNair, CMac, Rolle and Bart have all been replaced by cheaper options. We let Bart, Brown, Leonard and Douglass go.

The Ravens have not grabbed a big name free agent under 30 in a long time, and do not have nearly as many top of the market contracts on the books as they had 2 years ago and the cap has gone up more than expected.

If they can create the cap room by extending Suggs and cutting Gregg, or Willy and Walker, and only have to give up the 26th pick and next years 1st, how can so many people be against it? We do need another pass rusher and long term DE, and I do not see one out there better than Peppers in the draft or free agency, and do not remember the last time a DE like him was available othr than when Reggie White went to GB.

The way I can best make this argument is not just to sell the player, but try to find a comparable player and see what it took to get them. Mario Williams, Jarrett Allen, Freeny, Merriman, Ware and Harrison, maybe Suggs who is at his best with someone else getting a lot of attention. Guys who can pressure the QB are as premium as a franchise QB, and can affect the out come of the game as much.

Look at how tough the Steelers D was last year with the only major difference they had was 2 really good outside rushers and sick 4 man pressure. It makes average DBs look great, and so called great CBs like in SD, all of a sudden suck when the main pass rush threat is out of the mix.

Peppers is that guy. He can give us the Boulware and McCrarry combo again only maybe even better with Suggs and Peppers, adn as good and as intersting as all the defenses have been here, none have been better than the 2000 group and the only player we have not really replaced or even upgraded from that team in my view is the McCrarry role.

festivus

03-21-2009, 11:21 PM

I am tired of replacing premium free agents with medium. Where is all the money? J.O., McNair, CMac, Rolle and Bart have all been replaced by cheaper options. We let Bart, Brown, Leonard and Douglass go.

J.O. retired. CMac was an a-hole who couldn't stay on the field. Rolle was a gentleman and a class act who couldn't stay on the field. Bart was overpaid by the Jets, bless his heart. Brown was *unbelievably* overpaid and we upgraded at center anyway. Leonhard was a FA and we are deep at strong safety. We *let* Douglass go???

Come back to earth, JW. Settle down.

Jeremiah W

03-22-2009, 10:11 AM

J.O. retired. CMac was an a-hole who couldn't stay on the field. Rolle was a gentleman and a class act who couldn't stay on the field. Bart was overpaid by the Jets, bless his heart. Brown was *unbelievably* overpaid and we upgraded at center anyway. Leonhard was a FA and we are deep at strong safety. We *let* Douglass go???

Come back to earth, JW. Settle down.

I am calm but I never settle. My point is where is all the cap space? We do not have many big money second contracts on the roster anymore and a lot of money that was scheduled to go to J.O., C Mac, Rolle and McCnair has not been used to make any big moves. Suggs and Ray were on the books for big money last year so keeping them right now costs about the same and could go down is Sizz is extended.

Washington, Foxworth and Walker all make less combined than C mac was supposed to count vs the cap. Landry is cheap so is Gaither.

Our Wrs don't make much, our Qb does not make much and the O line is a bunch of young guys in 1st contracts or a vet who was cut and signed late.

There are loopholes to circumvent the cap, or you can stay up against it by eating 20 mil in "dead money" every year. It would not take much creative accounting to get the Ravens 15 mil under the cap tommorow if they are not already all the experts are just guessing what cap space teams have based on what they reported last time they had to.

Florio is obsesed with the economics of the NFL and is always on top of ways teams are beating the cap.
“COMPLETION BONUS” GIVES CAP FLEXIBILITY IN 2009, POSSIBLE SECURITY IN 2010
Posted by Mike Florio on March 21, 2009, 11:01 p.m.
With the intricacies of the last capped year restricting the devices that teams have used in the past to stay on the right side of the per-team spending limit, the New Orleans Saints have developed an innovative way to push money into future years without running afoul of the special accounting rules that apply as the NFL transitions to a season without a salary cap in 2010.

But, frankly, we think there’s a deeper motivation at play.

According to Mike Triplett of the New Orleans Times-Picayune, the Saints are using “completion bonuses” in 2010 as a tool for giving guaranteed money to players without driving up the 2009 cap numbers arising from their contracts.

Per Triplett, the Saints used a completion bonus in contracts paid to linebacker Jonathan Vilma, tackle Jon Stinchcomb, and cornerback Jabari Greer.

The device provides guaranteed money upon the “completion” of the 2010 season, if the players don’t skip or otherwise miss any mandatory team activities during the 2010 season.

One league source believes that the real aim of the completion bonus is to protect teams against holdouts or other player misbehavior. If the motivation was cap compliance, teams would still be able to use option bonuses with a non-exercise fee in the form of guaranteed base salaries.

The only difference is that a 2010 option bonus would most likely require option bonuses in future years, due to the rule prohibiting an increase in base salary of more than 30 percent in an uncapped year.

But, frankly, it’s an easy thing to do.

A league source tells us that the possible application of the Ashley Lelie grievance was discussed during one or more of the negotiations resulting in the use of completion bonuses by the Saints. Though a player’s entitlement to a completion bonus would likely be subject to the grievance process if, for example, he is suspended for violating the substance abuse policy and then gets stiffed out of the bonus, it seems fairly clear to us that the Saints believe that they’ve found a way to ensure that money isn’t “earned” until the player completes the season in which the completion bonus is to be paid.

psuasskicker

03-22-2009, 07:33 PM

It does matter, but someone explain exactly how much cap room we have and find me some football reason it does not make sense.

GTF out of here with that crap. It makes a shit-ton of football sense for us to go out and trade for Tom Brady, Adrian Peterson, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, James Harrison and Nnamdi Asomugha. I don't see you making an argument for that.

Gee, I wonder why.

Now, I wonder why we won't get Peppers...

hmmmm.................................

- C -

Jeremiah W

03-22-2009, 07:44 PM

GTF out of here with that crap. It makes a shit-ton of football sense for us to go out and trade for Tom Brady, Adrian Peterson, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, James Harrison and Nnamdi Asomugha. I don't see you making an argument for that.

Gee, I wonder why.

Now, I wonder why we won't get Peppers...

hmmmm.................................

- C -

Who said any of those guys were available or a good fit? Maybe you have not heard Peppers is on the market. Julius Peppers, former #2 pick and current franchise player of the Panthers is not "under contract" and is free to talk turkey with the Ravens, sign what is called an "offer sheet" and start the wheels in motion for the defensive Dynasty to continue into the next decade.

He has the leverage currently to wait and see, and almost choose where he is going to play. The Panthers are probly prepared to match even any so called "poison pill offer" like the Vikes pulled with Hutchinson because they cleared the 17 mil already to tag him so they would be able to retain him if they choose, but he has made it known he wants out, to a certain type of team, and the Ravens happen to fit the profile, and could really use a prolific and productive pass rusher to pressure the Qb into Ed Reed pick sixes. This would be both prudent and within the parameters of the profile to put a powerful pass rusher on the perimter opposite a dynamic player such as Sizzle, and there would likley be no pocket, no poise, and not many points to have to produce on your part, because your opponent is most like in a prone position because of the constant pounding.

Stealthbirds80

03-22-2009, 07:52 PM

I just looked at the salary cap spread sheet made by the money clip guy, (http://profootball24x7.com/content_docs/2009RavensSalaryShortform-Ruleof51-3-10-09.xls)and just read up on his last stuff. The Ravens do not have very many big money players, and of the ones they do, some could be restructured or extended in the case of Suggs and create 8-10 M in cap room without even cutting anyone else.

Frank Walker, Willy Anderson and a few other guys even fan favorites like Buddy Lee, who we got by OK without, could go to make room for a contract like Peppers.

After this upcoming season, over 10 mil in dead money from McNair and J.O. comes off the books, as well as whatever cap hit they had to eat for cutting C Mac and Rolle, and guys like Pryce, Ray and Gregg are not going to be around much longer than next season especially if we win the SB.

The Ravens tend to use as much cap space as they can, but do not really seem to be as up against it as any of the other teams Peppers is rumoured to be interested in.

I feel like Peppers is the best DE in the NFL, and possibly the best player of his generation. His impact on the team could be much more than McCrary or Pryce. He could be an every down player that draws double blocking or will create havok. I think with Peppers, Suggs and Nagta, we could get legit pressure with a 3 man rush. Bring a Pryce, JJ, Barnes or a one man extra blitz and even Cory Ivy could cover long enough to get the Qb off his spot.

We did enough for the offense last year to build on and flourish. To beat the Steelers and win the SB, we need to get Ben on the ground with 4 man pressure.

I see what your trying to say, but that maybe down the line in terms of freeing the money to bring in a Peppers like player. He maybe one of the best, but I think offense needs some playmakers for the young QB. They have to balance the team or the Flacco pick will be a wasted one and so will having Cam here.

Jeremiah W

03-22-2009, 07:54 PM

I see what your trying to say, but that maybe down the line in terms of freeing the money to bring in a Peppers like player. He maybe one of the best, but I think offense needs some playmakers for the young QB. They have to balance the team or the Flacco pick will be a wasted one and so will having Cam here.

They already have the protection and production from the running game. The offense really was not as much the problem as getting off the feild on passing downs was for the defense.

Peppers helps the offense also, even perhaps as a huge passing taget. He pulls points off the board and in the Woodley role of this defense, he should be able to get his 15 plus sacks from the strong side with Suggs wearing out backside LTs one on one and perhaps getting Harrison type sacks, forced fumbles, pressured passes that get picked.

I do not think any one position other than Qb can affect the outcome, and no posiiton can affect the opposing Qb more than a DE that he knows is going to put a hurt on him if he holds the ball. Peppers also penetrates and pushes the run back into Ray's wheelhouse. The Middle backers in NC always got a lot of good clean shots at the Rb with him holding his edge.

psuasskicker

03-22-2009, 10:56 PM

Wow. I thought you were living in Fantasia, but I'm pretty sure you're actually living somewhere that makes Fantasia look as normal as suburbia...

- C -

HoustonRaven

03-23-2009, 08:46 AM

Oh.

My.

God.

Is there actually a 3 page thread about this?

Seriously JW, you have provided me some great entertainment this morning.

srobert96

03-23-2009, 09:45 AM

srobert96

03-23-2009, 09:50 AM

As far as cap space. I believe the Ravens have a significant amount of dead money this year from JO, Cmac, Rolle and a few others. The Ravens also have 10mil locked up in Suggs Franchise Tender. The Ravens also have some other players that are late in their contracts which have them at higher annual base salaries. With the current labor status if they were to release them or redo the contracts everything would count against this years cap.

festivus

03-23-2009, 11:00 AM

Oh.

My.

God.

Is there actually a 3 page thread about this?

Only because it's the off season. The thread has long since gone beyond stupid, if it didn't start there.

Jeremiah W

03-23-2009, 01:17 PM

[QUOTE=Jeremiah W;137763]"The Ravens can find role players, there is only one Julius Peppers. The guy is better than Suggs, and I love me some Sizzle."

I strongly disagree that Peppers is a better OLB than Suggs. For starters Peppers has never played a 3-4 OLB. It is believed among NFL scouts that he will not be good dropping back into coverage. If we were in a 4-3 I would agree but not in the Ravens current Defense. Suggs is also 3 years younger and just coming into his prime. Peppers is coming up on 30 and has been known to not play hard as he mailed in the entire 2007 season. At this point in his career Peppers would be the ideal replacement for Pryce as a 3-4 DE. H could be very disruptive at that position.

The scheme and surrounding talent have helped Suggs a lot more than what Peppers has enjoyed. I would gladly swap but there is a way to have them both.
http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/sports/grillo-expert-agrees-with-peppers-3-4-makes-a-big-difference-503225.html

There are ways to stay under the cap. Not every move would cause more dead money. They can simply extend Suggs, cut Gregg and maybe restructure someone like JJ or Pryce to creat a little more room, that they will not need the following year where even if there is a cap, they will have a ton of dead money coming off the books.

srobert96

03-23-2009, 03:17 PM

There are ways to stay under the cap. Not every move would cause more dead money. They can simply extend Suggs, cut Gregg and maybe restructure someone like JJ or Pryce to creat a little more room, that they will not need the following year where even if there is a cap, they will have a ton of dead money coming off the books.[/QUOTE]

Cutting players this year creates far more dead money on the cap because you can no longer spread it out over 2 years. Say for instance kelly Gregg signed a 5 year deal with a 10 million dollar signing bonus and he just completed his 3rd year and you cut him. Your dead money would be 4 million bucks. In the past you would have been able to cut him after June 1 and spread the dead money out over the 2 years. The cap savings would be his salary this year less the signing bonus dead money.

And I strongly disagree that Peppers would be a better fit than Suggs in the Raven's scheme. Peppers has never played LB.

Jeremiah W

03-23-2009, 04:04 PM

There are ways to stay under the cap.

"
And I strongly disagree that Peppers would be a better fit than Suggs in the Raven's scheme. Peppers has never played LB.

Neither had Suggs, Thomas, Jarrett Johnson, or Peter Boulware before they played here, but showed the agility and speed at the D line positon that could be coached up into a force at OLB.

From a football perspecive, no one player in the NFL not under contract or in the draft could produce more than Peppers does even if they pan out to max potential. As one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, and a guy who forces a lot of fumbles and hurries that are picked off, only a QB can affect the game as much as an unblockable DE. Turnovers are still the number one stat tied to wins and Peppers produces them at a proven prolific pace.

baltimore_hokie

03-23-2009, 04:22 PM

peppers is a beast; however, he has never played LB and does not have the lower body to do so. he has never had to play towards the qb AND back in coverage, and many doubt his hip flexibility to turn in coverage. with that being said, he is a GREAT pass rusher...in a 4-3 scheme. i thought he would be too small to be an end in our system, but he is 6'7" 283 lbs which seems acceptable. i know the guy is definitely a stud, but the cap ramifications would probably be detrimental to the development of our offense. if we could fit him into the cap, i still say no thanks due to his age.

this may have been talked about on another thread, but if we can wait til next year when he will probably be a FA (and also turning 30 years old!!), we may have a good bit of money to throw around. with all the dead money being absolved this year and us having one of the wealthiest and most emotionally attached owners in the league, we could be players in free agency for guys like breylon edwards. i just don't see us giving up three early draft picks for a 30 year old player, no matter how good he COULD be.

Jeremiah W

03-23-2009, 04:43 PM

baltimore_hokie

03-23-2009, 04:46 PM

The price is high but ultimatly it is trading potential for proven production with potential upside and immediate impact. If he would be the #1 pick inthe draft, then 2 late round picks would be standard compensation most teams would pass on if they have the player at the top they like.

but we're talking about the ravens here, not the redskins. ozzie covets his draft picks, and we are in the middle of a transition to a young football team. we have come a long way already to adding some youth to this organization, but losing 3 young guys for one 30 year old would totally defeat the purpose. all i have to say is look at the steelers and the redskins for handling these types of moves. there's no arguing that overpaying for older players doesn't help to build a dynasty.

Jeremiah W

03-23-2009, 05:36 PM

but we're talking about the ravens here, not the redskins. ozzie covets his draft picks, and we are in the middle of a transition to a young football team. we have come a long way already to adding some youth to this organization, but losing 3 young guys for one 30 year old would totally defeat the purpose. all i have to say is look at the steelers and the redskins for handling these types of moves. there's no arguing that overpaying for older players doesn't help to build a dynasty.

Over paying unproductive older players is a sure fire recipe for disaster, but getting the right player in the front 4 can be well worth top dollar and 2 late first round picks. 30 is not close to washed up for a DE that has been healthy. Trevor Pryce had his most productive season here in 2006. Strahan went out on top. Reggie and Bruce were very productive past 33 and 34.

Look at all the teams that won the Sb recently. You have to have a Qb and you have to have a front 4 that can beat that QB up and rattle him off his game. With Suggs on one side and Peppers on the other, the Ravens defense would be a lot better than the Steelers were last year and 2 years ago with Porter, a lot better than the Giants the year before, Indy with Freeny and Mathis, better than the Pats little dynastic run with Seymore and Mgginnis and Vrable.

The Ravens front office has the scouting to fill in the holes with undrafted and late round picks, but players the caliber of Peppers can only be had at the top of the draft or by making a deal with a franchised player and giving up the full 2 first pick compensation, when compared with the 2 picks it took to get Boller, seems like the deal of the decade.

Lee Van Cleef

03-23-2009, 06:58 PM

Stop. The. Feeding.

darb72

03-23-2009, 08:36 PM

Only because it's the off season. The thread has long since gone beyond stupid, if it didn't start there.

The thread didn't start out stupid but reached that point fairly quickly with the number six post. Any time you start off your argument with, "Detroit would just love to...", you should realize things aren't going to go swimmingly.

Goodness gracious.

I think Peppers would destroy the sack record in this defense. If you thought his game was slipping. It aint. Notice in the highlights how he tends to be the only guy anywhere near the Qb when he nearly destroys them on contact.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80eae4f2

I know this is just the pro bowl, but the display of power and quickness Peppers displayed is freakish and frightening. He would be worth almost any price on second thought.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80eae4f2

I know he only had 2.5 sacks 2 years ago, and I have seen him get blocked 1 on 1, but this guy would be the first pick in the draft if he were in it, and Detroit would just love to give him 100 million dollars, (45 over the first 4)

the cap is a sham anyway and is going away next year for at least a year. Make it happen. We can not let the Pats get him for a 2nd round pick and draft a pass rusher with #26 we hope may be half as good.

psuasskicker

03-23-2009, 09:19 PM

Stop. The. Feeding..

B-more Ravor

03-23-2009, 09:26 PM

There are ways to stay under the cap. Not every move would cause more dead money. They can simply extend Suggs, cut Gregg and maybe restructure someone like JJ or Pryce to creat a little more room, that they will not need the following year where even if there is a cap, they will have a ton of dead money coming off the books.

Yes, and those kinds of moves generally screw you in the future.

Releasing Gregg, or just about any other player of decent salary, WILL CREATE DEAD MONEY. You can not get around that. It may be less than what the player currently counts, but it's unusable cap space just the same.
Cutting Gregg will only save them around $1M (with $2.5M in DEAD MONEY). Restructuring contracts has become much more difficult with the new CBA rules that apply because this is the "last capped year", so that's not a particularly attractive option either. Plus, restructuring Trevor Pryce at age 34 this season is absolutely a horrible idea. That's the kind of move that puts teams in cap jail in the future when you have to release him and take on additional DEAD MONEY because you restructured his deal when he was 34.

Lastly, while Peppers may be only 29, he'll be 33 by the 4th year of his contract and likely on the down side of his career, while making huge money.

And, that would likely mean HUGE DEAD MONEY.

festivus

03-23-2009, 10:35 PM

The thread didn't start out stupid but reached that point fairly quickly with the number six post. Any time you start off your argument with, "Detroit would just love to...", you should realize things aren't going to go swimmingly.

Darb I think we've been almost an entire year waiting for you to repopulate your sig line. I personally feel like you made a fine choice.

Yes, and those kinds of moves generally screw you in the future.

Releasing Gregg, or just about any other player of decent salary, WILL CREATE DEAD MONEY. You can not get around that. It may be less than what the player currently counts, but it's unusable cap space just the same.
Cutting Gregg will only save them around $1M (with $2.5M in DEAD MONEY). Restructuring contracts has become much more difficult with the new CBA rules that apply because this is the "last capped year", so that's not a particularly attractive option either. Plus, restructuring Trevor Pryce at age 34 this season is absolutely a horrible idea. That's the kind of move that puts teams in cap jail in the future when you have to release him and take on additional DEAD MONEY because you restructured his deal when he was 34.

Lastly, while Peppers may be only 29, he'll be 33 by the 4th year of his contract and likely on the down side of his career, while making huge money.

And, that would likely mean HUGE DEAD MONEY.

I for one thought Watchmen was better than it got credit for. Were expectations too high?

psuasskicker

03-24-2009, 09:22 AM

I for one thought Watchmen was better than it got credit for. Were expectations too high?

I get irritated by critics for this. No less than half didn't read the book, guaranteed. Many of them probably read the wiki page for the cliffs version and pretended to have read it.

I read the novel I think over a decade ago. It's been a while. Many scenes from the movie evoked memories of specific panels.

Here's the flaw of the movie. It's not "true" enough to the comics for the die-hard fan. You'd need to do a trilogy of movies - ala LotR - to really get all of it in there. No chance Hollywood would green-light something like that...doubtful even two. Plus it would be difficult to find natural breaking points to keep audiences that don't know the story coming back for more. I would bet more people that saw the LotR trilogy read the books than Watchmen viewers read the comics.

But the movie didn't pander to the general audience either, so you have those that didn't read the books whining that it dragged on and was too much. I hear this constantly... "Interesting story, but it was boring."

I thought they did well with it. First movie I saw in a while that didn't try to please everyone, and because of that I felt like it was done very well. Nothing they could have done to smash more of the story in without making it ridiculously long. But not pandering to the lowest common denominator was great.

Personally I felt like it was the best movie I've seen in the last five years.

- C -

bmoreravengirl

03-24-2009, 09:40 AM

This thread is a prime example of why I'm eternally thankful/grateful that the fans have no say/control over who the FO decides to sign.

I know I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating.

psuasskicker

03-24-2009, 09:42 AM

This thread is a prime example of why I'm eternally thankful/grateful that the fans have no say/control over who the FO decides to sign.

I know I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating.

Um, we're discussing Watchmen now... You know, something that's got a lot higher likelihood of actually happening..... Try to stay on point, please.

;)

- C -

HoustonRaven

03-24-2009, 10:27 AM

The purposeful hijacking of a thread .... brilliant!

Ya know, that was one comic / graphic novel I never got into.

If I see the movie, will I be lost without knowing the back story?

Jeremiah W

03-24-2009, 10:56 AM

Hillarious getting the best defenisve end in the NFL who is not under contract compares to comic books?

He plays the premier position in the NFL next to QB, and if he is not the best in the NFL he is clearly top 3. He makes everyone around him better on every snap, and he plays every down.

I used Detroit for an example, not because they seem to know what they are doing, but because they hold the top overall pick and would gladly give it up and next years 1st round pick to get Peppers under contract for the next 5 or 6 years. Any team should, because he is an all pro player not a prospect, and he can pick who he wants to play for right now if he plays his cards right.

His agent and Oz can work it out so that the Ravens can choose if they want to give up this years #26 pick and next years 30 something pick most likley, or they can wait until later in the off season and make the trade involving 2 picks in 2009 and 10 at the most, possibly less if they get him to sign the tender first and get the Panthers to accept less compensation.

The championships this past decade were dominated by defensive bookend domination.
Harrison and Woodley.
Strahan and Osi, Tuck up the gut.
Freeney and Mathis.
Seymour and MGginnis.
McCrarry and Boulware.

Suggs and Peppers could be better than all of them, and would almost be like having Bruce Smith on the left (Sizzle) and Reggie White on the right ( Hot Peppers). Championship. Dynasty.

srobert96

03-24-2009, 10:59 AM

[QUOTE=Jeremiah W;137934]Neither had Suggs, Thomas, Jarrett Johnson, or Peter Boulware before they played here, but showed the agility and speed at the D line positon that could be coached up into a force at OLB.

You are comparing a guy who is 29 and has been in the league for 7 years with guys the Ravens drafted out of college. When you draft players you allot time for them to adjust to the pro game and to learn the defensive scheme.

How many veteran players have you seen go from being a DE to a LB? We are talking about a guy who is coming up on 30 and has 7 years in the league. If you are talking about having the Ravens switch to a 4-3 and have Suggs and Peppers be DEs that would be great. The problem is that is not the defense the Ravens run nor the defense that Peppers wants to play.

Jeremiah W

03-24-2009, 11:28 AM

Jeremiah W

03-24-2009, 11:56 AM

bmoreravengirl

03-24-2009, 12:32 PM

Um, we're discussing Watchmen now... You know, something that's got a lot higher likelihood of actually happening..... Try to stay on point, please.

;)

- C -

Sorry. :D :D

psuasskicker

03-24-2009, 12:45 PM

The purposeful hijacking of a thread .... brilliant!

Ya know, that was one comic / graphic novel I never got into.

If I see the movie, will I be lost without knowing the back story?

No, not even a little bit. The back story is the movie.

Actually, I think the credit roll was the most brilliant part of the movie. The basic story is that there were two generations of super heroes. The main story focuses on the second generation of them, but there's a good bit about the first gen in the books. In the movie, the credit role rather brilliantly shows a good bit of the back story involving the first gen, but only takes up a few minutes of screen time to do it.

The movie tells an all-encompassing story of the books. A lot of the books is chopped out, but the books had an absolute ton of stuff going on in them that was in no way necessary for the main story line. The movie captured all that was necessary, and then captured a lot of the side story-lines as well that was mostly dedicated to character building. IMO they did a brilliant job of it.

My one complaint about the movie was that IMO the climax wasn't quite powerful enough. In the books, they do a much better job of building the contempt felt toward and horror felt towards an impending nuclear war. This makes the climax exceptionally powerful. In the movie, they're so character focused they don't build on that terrible possibility, which makes the climax somewhat of a "hunh?" moment for those not familiar with the books.

It's an epic story, though. Seeing it visually played out was terrific...

- C -

Rayvens52

03-24-2009, 03:57 PM

It may not be able to happen this year, but Baltimore seems like the best fit for Peppers and next year money is a non issue even if there is a cap.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A0wNdcfdAMlJZVAA5wVDubYF?slug=jc-pepperssacrifice032009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

How can you say money is a non-issue have you completly lost your mind bro. This has to be the largest man crush I have ever heard!

bmoreravengirl

03-24-2009, 04:26 PM

How can you say money is a non-issue have you completly lost your mind bro. This has to be the largest man crush I have ever heard!

Ahem, **cough, cough**:

Um, we're discussing Watchmen now... You know, something that's got a lot higher likelihood of actually happening..... Try to stay on point, please.

Back on topic please. :) :D

P.S. Besides, you'd have better luck trying to reason with a brick wall.

Jeremiah W

03-24-2009, 04:32 PM

How can you say money is a non-issue have you completly lost your mind bro. This has to be the largest man crush I have ever heard!

I don't know that have not gone past crazy a long time ago when it comes to football. I am a fanatic. I focus on front 4 play becasue that is what I played. DT and DE, and I watched D line play very close before I even started playing. My favorite players were Decon Jones, Lawrence Taylor Reggie White, Jerome Brown and Barry Sanders and Bruce Smith.

Peppers reminds me a lot of a combo of Bruce Smith and Reggie White. I am convinced if we get him we will win the SB next year and be a threat for the next 3 or 4.

Front 4 play is the most important factor next to QB play. It i why Jake Long and Chris Long went ahead of Matty Ice.

BArellano

03-24-2009, 04:33 PM

I'm amazed every day when I log on to the message board, and this thread is still hanging around the top. I can't believe this is still even being discussed.

And Watchmen is overrated. Unless you like blue penis.

purplepoe

03-24-2009, 05:11 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpraJYnbVtE

It's long overdue.

PP

Rayvens52

03-24-2009, 05:13 PM

I don't know that have not gone past crazy a long time ago when it comes to football. I am a fanatic. I focus on front 4 play becasue that is what I played. DT and DE, and I watched D line play very close before I even started playing. My favorite players were Decon Jones, Lawrence Taylor Reggie White, Jerome Brown and Barry Sanders and Bruce Smith.

Peppers reminds me a lot of a combo of Bruce Smith and Reggie White. I am convinced if we get him we will win the SB next year and be a threat for the next 3 or 4.

Front 4 play is the most important factor next to QB play. It i why Jake Long and Chris Long went ahead of Matty Ice.

We are all fanatics, but the reason we did not go to the SB last year was because of our O, not our #2 ranked D. We need to focus on surronding Flacco with tons of talent and the D will be fine without Peppers, that is how we get to the SB next year, not by using all our money on 1 player when we have a lot of our own to resign next year and we need help on the O!

psuasskicker

03-24-2009, 05:41 PM

And Watchmen is overrated. Unless you like blue penis.

Please tell me you weren't one of those morons that couldn't handle seeing a penis on the screen without snickering and jabbering to your buddies about how it's funny to see a penis on the screen...

I saw the movie opening night and I swear I wanted to punch out the entire theater who was acting like they'd never seen a penis before. Okay, I've never seen a blue penis before this, either, but a penis is a penis is a penis.

Yes, I like typing the word penis <snicker>, get over it juveniles!

- C -

(Malin Akerman's tits are niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...)

Jeremiah W

03-24-2009, 05:50 PM

We are all fanatics, but the reason we did not go to the SB last year was because of our O, not our #2 ranked D. We need to focus on surronding Flacco with tons of talent and the D will be fine without Peppers, that is how we get to the SB next year, not by using all our money on 1 player when we have a lot of our own to resign next year and we need help on the O!

I don't think we need Peppers, just that he makes us better than any 2 guys we could get with late 1st round picks, over the course of the next 2 seasons. In year 3 if we have not won at least one Sb it would have been a bad move, but in the short term I think he is the one part that puts us over the top.

We can agree to disagree about whether it was the O that let us down in the regular season games that slipped away and cost us the chance to host the Steelers in the playoffs, but you have to agree that anything that makes the Ravens better puts them closer to the Steelers whether it is an offensive or defensive player as long as it is a difference maker in the pass catching or pass stopping department. I find it hard to see a difference maker like Peppers available anywhere near the 26th pick. We could get a solid player, but a spectacular player that would clearly be an upgrade in the next 2 years?

The Peppers thing may not be possible, but because he is actually not under contract right now, it is worth exploring fully, right now. I do not see tons of talent out there to surround Flacco with available. If we could get Fitzgerald or a freakish #1 WR for the same price and package I would do that also, but the best pass rushers in the NFL seem to do better in the post season than the best WRs.

The O should progress with Flacco even with the same talent level surrounding him. The D line needs an infusion of youth and talent, and no pass rusher drafted in the top 10 of the last 5 drafts including Mario Williams is better than Peppers. If a player like that is available and wants to play for your team, you make it happen.The O puts on a show. Defense wins rings and the cost is worth it in this specific case. In general maybe not, but of all the free agent and high draft big money investments, a quality DE is among the safest bets. Better than big money WR free agents anyway.

BArellano

03-24-2009, 05:50 PM

Please tell me you weren't one of those morons that couldn't handle seeing a penis on the screen without snickering and jabbering to your buddies about how it's funny to see a penis on the screen...

I saw the movie opening night and I swear I wanted to punch out the entire theater who was acting like they'd never seen a penis before. Okay, I've never seen a blue penis before this, either, but a penis is a penis is a penis.

Yes, I like typing the word penis <snicker>, get over it juveniles!

I was merely saying that I did not like the movie, but if I liked blue penises more than the average person, it may have changed my opinion of the movie. Just sayin'... jeez. ;)

(Malin Akerman's tits are niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...)

Yes please.

festivus

03-24-2009, 06:01 PM

I get irritated by critics for this. No less than half didn't read the book, guaranteed. Many of them probably read the wiki page for the cliffs version and pretended to have read it.
Agreed. It was walking a very narrow path, and couldn't please everybody. It may have been targeted at middle age guys who remember who John Constantine is, which would be me. :)

If I see the movie, will I be lost without knowing the back story?
It would be kind of goofy without having read the book. You can get it at the library.

And Watchmen is overrated. Unless you like blue penis.
I kept hearing about the famous blue penis, but it just wasn't that noticeable except for a couple of seconds in a movie that pushes three hours in length.

Sorry. :D :D
No problem. Go in peace. :)

I saw it at Harbor East. :watching: and :beer: for the win!!

psuasskicker

03-24-2009, 11:04 PM

I kept hearing about the famous blue penis, but it just wasn't that noticeable except for a couple of seconds in a movie that pushes three hours in length.

Your problem is that you didn't see it in IMAX, where you could basically see a giant blue penis for an hour and a half of it.

The other half was Malin Akerman's lusciously deliciously slurptacular tits. mmmmmmmmmmm.....

- C -

HoustonRaven

03-24-2009, 11:09 PM

Oy. 3 hours?

I may have to wait for blu-ray.

psuasskicker

03-24-2009, 11:12 PM

Oy. 3 hours?

I may have to wait for blu-ray.

Um, you shouldn't...

http://dailytush.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/malin_akerman.bmp

HoustonRaven

03-24-2009, 11:17 PM

Hot ass picture not withstanding, my home entertainment system is pretty decent and would have no problem enjoying Malin's "assets" at home.

psuasskicker

03-24-2009, 11:25 PM

Why wait when you can do both???

- C -

HoustonRaven

03-24-2009, 11:46 PM

You make a compelling argument.

darb72

03-25-2009, 07:25 AM

I wanted to go watch the WatchMen tonight for my birthday, which was Feb. 6th (aren't kids just the greatest) but I was sidetracked by the lure of an Osaka Steakhouse. I want to see it in theaters but I feel the four new PS3 games are a suitable stand in.

psuasskicker

03-25-2009, 08:59 AM

Ooo...which four? KZ2 almost has to be one, right? RE, Street Fighter...what's the fourth?

I'm so deep into Fallout 3 my life is in ruins. My goal right now is discovering every location in the game. And I think I've only got about 10-15 left to find...

- C -

Jeremiah W

04-10-2009, 05:23 PM

So the Panthers are feeling played by Peppers. They are really hoping to get a 1st round pick and other comp in theis here draft, but that is entirely up to Peppers at this point. Until he puts his pen to paper, they are sort of stuck.

With proper planning, the Ravens can get him for the right price.

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/apr/09/dragging-his-feet-panthers-still-waiting-on-pepper/sports/

psuasskicker

04-10-2009, 08:02 PM

Oh Jesus fuck...

Jeremiah W

04-10-2009, 08:04 PM

you know you want it. just relax. dont struggle.

psuasskicker

04-10-2009, 08:12 PM

You know what I want?

To see the new GI Joe movie...

http://internetpopular.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/gi_joe_first_look_et_013109.jpg

- C -

Jeremiah W

04-10-2009, 09:08 PM

Can we get Storm Shadow to rush Rothlessburger or does he only kick cobra tail? How come he is such a terrible shot with the machine guns it always comes down to the karate?

darb72

04-11-2009, 04:02 AM

Sorry for the late response PSU. I got Devil May Cry 4, Tomb Raider, HAWX and Soul Calibur 4. Considering I got all 4 for less than 120 dollars I'm pretty happy with the selection.

psuasskicker

04-11-2009, 08:13 PM

Not bad. I'm not a huge Tomb Raider fan but I've heard good things about it.

BTW, I did succeed in opening every location in Fallout, except for Vault 87. Actually, I did open it, but couldn't figure out a way out of the loc without having to Rad-Away myself all the way out. That woulda used every one of my Rad-Aways and I didn't feel like doing that.

Restarted playing as a good character. Game's completely different as a good guy. Interesting stuff. No question it's the best single player game I've ever played.

- C -

4G63

04-11-2009, 08:48 PM

You know what I want?

To see the new GI Joe movie...

http://internetpopular.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/gi_joe_first_look_et_013109.jpg

- C -

Can I have that gun please?

FN Five-Seven......:ww:

Jeremiah W

04-11-2009, 10:14 PM

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/11/still-no-interest-in-unsigned-franchise-players/#comments

psuasskicker

04-11-2009, 10:22 PM

Can I have that gun please?

FN Five-Seven......:ww:

Out of everything in that picture, you want the gun???

- C -

4G63

04-11-2009, 10:38 PM

Out of everything in that picture, you want the gun???

- C -

I prefer to bring guns to knife fights..... ;)

I'd take the whole outfit too, if we're really choosing.

baltimore_hokie

04-12-2009, 01:43 AM

haha jesus, we know its the off-season when you dorks use this much of the thread talking about this shit. that is just sad.

darb72

04-12-2009, 03:14 AM

Now I have to go get Fallout. I'm only gonna teach two classes this summer so I should have time to really get into it.

And yeah, it's the offseason, plus the idea of the thread is pretty pointless so we hijacked it.

Lee Van Cleef

04-12-2009, 09:25 AM

haha jesus, we know its the off-season when you dorks use this much of the thread talking about this shit. that is just sad.

Beats JW's batshit crazy ideas.

As for Fallout 3, I've had a hard time getting into it personally. I've been a fan of the games of Bethesda softworks since TES II: Daggerfall (which is my favourite game, ever) but I find the settings and stories of this one just don't engage me in teh same way as their fantasy based stuff. Maybe that's just because I'd rather run around casting spells and hacking at Dark Elves with my Claymore than shooting at Deathclaws and avoiding radiation. I don't know, but since I passed on Oblivion I'm tempted to go get that and play it instead.

Jeremiah W

04-12-2009, 10:31 AM

psuasskicker

04-12-2009, 12:20 PM

Beats JW's batshit crazy ideas.

As for Fallout 3, I've had a hard time getting into it personally. I've been a fan of the games of Bethesda softworks since TES II: Daggerfall (which is my favourite game, ever) but I find the settings and stories of this one just don't engage me in teh same way as their fantasy based stuff. Maybe that's just because I'd rather run around casting spells and hacking at Dark Elves with my Claymore than shooting at Deathclaws and avoiding radiation. I don't know, but since I passed on Oblivion I'm tempted to go get that and play it instead.

Prolly a genre thing. It'd be tough to get into if you don't enjoy that sort of stuff. I like it cause it's got an element of realism (in that you're using everyday items to win your battles rather than magic), but it's way far off the wall and has a horror element to it as well.

I've also heard terrific things about Oblivion, and heard that it's even bigger than Fallout 3 (which frankly is difficult to imagine...it took me over 150 game hours to open all F3 locations). I need to do a bit more research on it, but I'm strongly considering making it the next game I buy for my consoles.

Final Fantasy 13 should be out toward the end of the year or early next (depending if they push the date yet again). I cannot wait...

- C -

Lee Van Cleef

04-12-2009, 05:03 PM

I've also heard terrific things about Oblivion, and heard that it's even bigger than Fallout 3 (which frankly is difficult to imagine...it took me over 150 game hours to open all F3 locations). I need to do a bit more research on it, but I'm strongly considering making it the next game I buy for my consoles.

Final Fantasy 13 should be out toward the end of the year or early next (depending if they push the date yet again). I cannot wait...

- C -

I've heard varying reports on Oblivion. Some of the criticisms of Fallout3 apparently apply, such as the enemies levelling as you do, so you're always fighting baddies appropriate to your own level. Having played a lot of Morrowind and Daggerfall this wasn't an issue with those. It kind of takes away from an element of freedom in my opinion. Also, as someone who plays games on the PC I'm slightly concerned as to whether it'll be more designed for the console market. The purity of it's predecessors was part of what appealed to me, I like the more hardcore RPG elements.

Either way, I need to get it. If it's no good I'll just go back and play Morrowind.

psuasskicker

04-12-2009, 05:37 PM

I've heard varying reports on Oblivion. Some of the criticisms of Fallout3 apparently apply, such as the enemies levelling as you do, so you're always fighting baddies appropriate to your own level. Having played a lot of Morrowind and Daggerfall this wasn't an issue with those. It kind of takes away from an element of freedom in my opinion. Also, as someone who plays games on the PC I'm slightly concerned as to whether it'll be more designed for the console market. The purity of it's predecessors was part of what appealed to me, I like the more hardcore RPG elements.

Either way, I need to get it. If it's no good I'll just go back and play Morrowind.

Fallout 3 enemies don't level with you. At least, if they do, it's unnoticeable. Mostly they just have harder enemies in naturally tougher places. There are areas you pretty much never go in the early going, and those spots tend to have tougher enemies.

I haven't played the PC version, just the PS3 (which should be same as the X-box). I love the combo of the shooter with the RPG aspect. It's a fantastic RPG, and I'm a hardcore RPG fan (I still long to find a copy of Dragon Warrior - best.RPG.ever. - for my Wii) and tend to be an RPG purist. The shooter element doesn't really get in the way of it, and the stories are so in depth it's amazing. The freedom to go wherever you want, whenever you want, simply makes for an amazing experience.

- C -

Lee Van Cleef

04-12-2009, 06:07 PM

My bad, for some reason I keep thinking it has level scaling.

Anyhoo, I'm not convinced Oblivion will live up to it's predecessors, but it remains to be seen.

effo5231

04-12-2009, 08:32 PM

Fallout, like Oblivion features leveling enemies.

Not in the sense that I radioactive cockroach is going to get stronger as you level up, but rather that radioactive cockroach will eventually be replaced by a radioactive scorpion, then a bigger one, then a giant one.

Its not noticeable or annoying, but it does mean that you spend most of the game in that combat sweet spot of just hard enough to challenge you but not so hard as to be like the hoverbike level from battletoads.

Aces2Bluff

04-12-2009, 10:15 PM

I hated RPG's but I absolutly fell in love with Oblivion. Any time you are willing to restart 120 hours worth of gameplay with a completly different type of character (I played through with 3 different race/classes) it is a testament to the detail of the game.

The leveling system in the game can be annoying, but there are methods around it with certain items, weapons, etc.

I havent tried out Fallout 3 yet...prob will be picking it up within the next week or so. All I know was a friend recommended Fable II after I played Oblivion and I cant stand the game so I am weary of the RPG types.

Dave Lap

04-14-2009, 08:14 PM

but not so hard as to be like the hoverbike level from battletoads.

Oh yeah, the hoverbike level from Battletoads..whoa that's a killer.

Actually I have no idea what you are all talking about...I'll just slowly back out of this thread...that's the ticket...no sudden movements..

Gone!

darb72

04-15-2009, 02:23 AM

The hoverbike level was possibly the hardest level in any video game ever. The way we finally beat it was to write down and memorize every single move that you had to make on that cursed bastard of a demon spawned level.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=battletoads%20hoverbike&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

Not the hardest game of all time though. Super Ghost and Goblins for the NES takes home the record for most frustrating software in history. I made it through to what I thought was the end, only to find out I had to turn around and go back to the beginning. Screw that. Princess wants to be saved I suggest she find the way out her own damned self.

psuasskicker

02-25-2010, 03:06 PM

So I'll kick up some old dirt and dust and ask who's as excited for Fallout: New Vegas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZQPmDye5xA) as I am? Word is it's bigger than F3, and that Vegas is actually up and running so you'll be able to roll through casinos that are functioning. This game could be mad-awesome!

FFXIII in March. Reviews are making me think it's not the day-one purchase I initially thought it would be, but should still be excellent. Since it's before GoW3, I'll prolly get it day-one anyway.

GoW3 also in March. Reviews and trailers have made this an absolutely-must-have-day-one purchase for me.

- C -

RAVENOUS52

02-25-2010, 08:21 PM

Fallout 3 enemies don't level with you. At least, if they do, it's unnoticeable. Mostly they just have harder enemies in naturally tougher places. There are areas you pretty much never go in the early going, and those spots tend to have tougher enemies.

I haven't played the PC version, just the PS3 (which should be same as the X-box). I love the combo of the shooter with the RPG aspect. It's a fantastic RPG, and I'm a hardcore RPG fan (I still long to find a copy of Dragon Warrior - best.RPG.ever. - for my Wii) and tend to be an RPG purist. The shooter element doesn't really get in the way of it, and the stories are so in depth it's amazing. The freedom to go wherever you want, whenever you want, simply makes for an amazing experience.

- C -

Now wait a damn minute, brother!!<--(In best Hogan voice)

You are mistaken. The BEST.RPG.EVER. is undoubtedly....

(Wait for it...)

http://loyalkng.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/chrono_trigger.jpg
CHRONO TRIGGER for the Super NES.

In a word: IMMACULATE

darb72

02-26-2010, 02:04 AM

Not only does FF XIII come out in March, but the add-on content for Dragon Age: Origins comes out the next week.

That's a whole lot of RPG goodness to get excited about.:thumbup:

jonboy79

02-26-2010, 10:07 AM

Not only does FF XIII come out in March, but the add-on content for Dragon Age: Origins comes out the next week.

That's a whole lot of RPG goodness to get excited about.:thumbup:

Right on... I beat Origins as all three classes(rogue is best). I'm interested to see how the character porting will go.

psuasskicker

02-27-2010, 11:31 PM

Wasn't that excited about DA:O and reviews plus discussions I had with friends not about the story - which were universally praised - but about the combat system and general leveling caused me to skip it. Decided FFXIII would be the better one to wait for.

Should be an awesome year, coming off a late last year that included Uncharted 2 and Modern Warfare 2, both of which have seen serious time committed to them.

Heavy Rain - Really wanna get this but holding off with all the other awesomeness hitting soon plus MW2 to which I am addicted. Reviews are so good though, I may not have a choice.

FFXIII - duh

God of War 3 - ZOMGWTF duh

Starcraft 2 - In beta testing already. Got a friend online who's a tester and I'm so jealous I'm not sure how many people I'd murder to switch places with him.

Fallout: New Vegas

Gran Turismo 5 (though rumor has it this might wind up pushed into 2011)

- C -

jonboy79

02-28-2010, 09:52 AM

DA-O is by far the best RPG I have ever played. Nearly 100 hours on a thourough playthrough with considerable replay value. I was very happy with the combat and levelling.
BUt... that said, i certainly trend towards the fantasy "Swords, Arrows, Magic and Dragons" subgenre. I need to get Mass Effect 2 to have a no fantasy competitor from teh save maker.

psuasskicker

02-28-2010, 10:27 AM

jonboy79

02-28-2010, 10:52 AM

Read up on ME2 first. I've heard that it's solid, but not all it's cracked up to be. I'm skipping it completely.

Try Fallout 3. FPS/3PS to deal with the action, but the VATS system allows for a bit more of a turn-based RPG type feel. More importantly, everything other than the combat is very RPG. Leveling, choosing your perks, abilities, etc. You can decide if you're good or evil, different decisions impact things you can get and the way quests run. There are ten main quests, but side-quests outnumber the main quest. I spent about 200 hours completing the game, and only about 25-50 of those hours were on the main quest. The story and environment are so completely immersive. It's the best RPG I've ever played.

- C -

I will have to get that. I don't need or partcularly even want Turn-based, but as you mention, it is the rest tha must be immersively RPG. I want significant control over the direction of my main character or party's proggression.
DA-O's main Quest/Side Quest Ratio was probably tighter then you explain, but it's hard to say because of two reasons. I never tried to burn right through it, and I doubt yoiu could. Without doing at least a significant portion of the side quests, your party would be to weak to make ti past important checkpoints.

Lee Van Cleef

02-28-2010, 11:45 AM

I will have to get that. I don't need or partcularly even want Turn-based, but as you mention, it is the rest tha must be immersively RPG. I want significant control over the direction of my main character or party's proggression.
DA-O's main Quest/Side Quest Ratio was probably tighter then you explain, but it's hard to say because of two reasons. I never tried to burn right through it, and I doubt yoiu could. Without doing at least a significant portion of the side quests, your party would be to weak to make ti past important checkpoints.

You don't have to use the VATS system when shooting, it just adds an interesting aspect to combat. You can just shoot away like a loon if you so prefer.

psuasskicker

02-28-2010, 11:05 PM

I will have to get that. I don't need or partcularly even want Turn-based, but as you mention, it is the rest tha must be immersively RPG. I want significant control over the direction of my main character or party's proggression.

I think you'd love F3 in that case. The story itself is terrific (although without spoiling it, the finale of the main quest is probably the least fun of all quests in the game). But the ability to explore this massive, massive Washington DC area just allows you to get so lost in the environment it's an unbelievable experience. And there is absolutely no "proper" way to take your character. There are occasionally spots you cannot get to until you complete certain lines of the main quest, but that's very rare. And in reality you can even complete much of the main quest skipping other quests in the main quest. There's 10 quests in the main quest, and after I completed quest 1, I went exploring and accidentally stumbled on a location that wound up with me completing quest 4. Coulda gone on without completing quests 2 or 3, but obviously I decided to go back and do those as well.

And as LVC said, VATS is optional.