Holt has been released

[B-more Ravor]

....let the speculating begin!!

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/13/rams-cut-torry-holt/

[RavenScallywag]

Go Go Wizard of Oz! Get him wearing purple by next Tuesday!

[Marcel#52]

Go Go Wizard of Oz! Get him wearing purple by next Tuesday!

Yes Purple, White, and Yellow...

[awalt]

NO WAY.

Too expensive when our cap is very tight, and signing him to a deal that he likely will command forfeits one of our likely 3rd round comp picks (for Scott and Brown) next year. We would in effect be trading a 3rd for Torry Holt to sign him to a big contract.

I know I am going out on a limb here and disagreeing with Anita Marks :179421: , but I say no way.

[UKRavenStockers]

NO WAY.

Too expensive when our cap is very tight, and signing him to a deal that he likely will command forfeits one of our likely 3rd round comp picks (for Scott and Brown) next year. We would in effect be trading a 3rd for Torry Holt to sign him to a big contract.

I know I am going out on a limb here and disagreeing with Anita Marks :179421: , but I say no way.

I agree he's too expensive for the cap space but if he's been cut then I'm pretty sure he doesn't count into the equation for compensatory picks, I think that equation is only based on players whose contracts expire, not those who are cut by their team.

[RavinDonnie]

After decades of ignoring the offense Ozzie has finally got his head out of his ass and found a real qb, finally got some semblance of a RT...why not a real down field WR!

[Lee Van Cleef]

I don't get it, we're developing a pretty good young team here and people want us to start stacking speed positions with players over 30, WHY?

[ravencd9]

I think Holt can still be a solid WR for a few more years. He has been plagued by a horrible Rams team with an injured QB. Bring him in if the price is right.

[festivus]

He'd be a good addition. We're not exactly deep at WR; I don't understand the knee jerk 'no's in this thread.

[808 Raven]

He definitely has a couple of years left so it would be a nice addition for the right price. However I think his asking price is gonna be too high. The rumor was that the Titans were close to trading for him yesterday, but the deal fell apart because Holt refused to restructure his contract, which then led to his release. Great player, but I hope the Ravens don't break the bank for only a short term solution that may or may not work out.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/sources-holt-to-titans-trade-fell-apart/

[ravenjoer]

People he is 33 and we already have Mason WE NEED BOLDIN FROM ARIZONA PERIOD!!!! he is the home run hitter and is like 26 so on draft day go get him and let this talk of these older vets die down because we are trying to get younger

[Marcel#52]

After decades of ignoring the offense Ozzie has finally got his head out of his ass and found a real qb, finally got some semblance of a RT...why not a real down field WR!

Ozzie had his head in his ass??:229031_confused2:




I don't get it, we're developing a pretty good young team here and people want us to start stacking speed positions with players over 30, WHY?
:thumbup: Agree 100%


People he is 33 and we already have Mason WE NEED BOLDIN FROM ARIZONA PERIOD!!!! he is the home run hitter and is like 26 so on draft day go get him and let this talk of these older vets die down because we are trying to get younger

I thought everyone here already understood that he'd cost too much money wise and It'd take to much to get him...

[B-more Ravor]

NO WAY.

Too expensive when our cap is very tight, and signing him to a deal that he likely will command forfeits one of our likely 3rd round comp picks (for Scott and Brown) next year. We would in effect be trading a 3rd for Torry Holt to sign him to a big contract.

Actually, since he's been released, he doesn't count toward the Comp pick calculation, so that won't - or shouldn't - be a factor in our decision.

OTOH, the rumors of his knee being arthritic are very much something to be concerned about.

[808 Raven]

No way could we afford Boldin. Although there's conflicting stories about whether the Cards are even actively shopping him, it's been widely rumored that they would seek compensation similar to Roy Williams (which I doubt they would get). We can't afford to give up that many draft picks and I don't see the Suggs-Bolden rumor happening now that Scott is gone. Bolden's good, but I think he benefited a lot from Fitzgerald lining opposite from him.

[HoustonRaven]

Marcel, please do feed the troll! It encourages him to come back! ;)

[Greg]

I agree he's too expensive for the cap space but if he's been cut then I'm pretty sure he doesn't count into the equation for compensatory picks, I think that equation is only based on players whose contracts expire, not those who are cut by their team.

This is correct.

[Marcel#52]

Marcel, please do feed the troll! It encourages him to come back! ;)

Gotcha ;)

[ravenwoman]

As a rule, I personally don't like to sign new players over the age of 30. I know there are exceptions like our new center, Birk, but if you are trying to get younger for the long haul, I say pass on Holt. I say wait for the draft for a wide receiver (flanker).

[Ravenswarrior19]

Can Holt still go? Injuries below the waist rob older players of their speed. If Hold isn't much of a deep threat anymore, what good is he to us?

http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/08/28/torry-holt-knee-may-never-heal-properly-fantasy-impact/

[Greg]

As a rule, I personally don't like to sign new players over the age of 30. I know there are exceptions like our new center, Birk, but if you are trying to get younger for the long haul, I say pass on Holt. I say wait for the draft for a wide receiver (flanker).
I don't know if Holt has anything left in the tank, but signing him wouldn't preclude drafting a guy or two. Fact is, we have one legit starter in Mason, one who may be coming into his own in Clayton, Williams who is who knows and then nothing but guys who couldn't catch a pass last year despite having the third WR position up for 13 games or so including the playoffs.

Sounds like we have 1, another probable 1, a question mark and holes.

[section553]

If you can sign him I say do it. If we do sign him it shouldnt cange our approach in regard to drafting a young WR though.

[RavenDavey]

I think Holt has a couple of good years left and we should pick him up if possible. I do have concerns with what others have said about him going from a dome to the AFC North stadiums in the late fall/winter months...

[bmore4life]

people, Tenn had a trade for him, but they wanted to redo his contract to lessen Holt's cap number and he wouldn't do it. he wants top dollar and we don't have it.

and you can't cut a CB to sign a WR... it just creates other holes...

[Jeremiah W]

DHB solves all our problems.

We do not need another vet WR, and Flacco is going to be fine even throwing to the Devard Darlings and Clarence Moores in the draft. The OC knows how to put points on the board with what we have as long as it is healthy.

[StingerNLG]

Oh good, yeah let's let our QB throw to guys that can't hold onto the ball or are afraid to go into the middle of the field because someone might hit them. Hell, why don't we just go sign some guys from the CFL.

Sigh..................................................

Anyway, onto Holt. No thanks. I'd rather find a kid in the draft that can grow up with Flacco. If you look at the amount of time Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison spent together racking up yards, TD's, and records; that's the type of receiver I want here. Torry Holt will be another over-his-prime possession receiver that we can't stretch the field with.

5 years ago I would have taken him in a heartbeat.

[Raven Domination]

Oh good, yeah let's let our QB throw to guys that can't hold onto the ball or are afraid to go into the middle of the field because someone might hit them. Hell, why don't we just go sign some guys from the CFL.

Sigh..................................................

Anyway, onto Holt. No thanks. I'd rather find a kid in the draft that can grow up with Flacco. If you look at the amount of time Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison spent together racking up yards, TD's, and records; that's the type of receiver I want here. Torry Holt will be another over-his-prime possession receiver that we can't stretch the field with.

5 years ago I would have taken him in a heartbeat.

Do you realize that from 2000-2007 Holt never had a season with less than 1?100 recieving yards? Mason is good? but Holt would be an upgrade. 2008 was his first really bad season statistically but he was hurt.

[StingerNLG]

Do you realize that from 2000-2007 Holt never had a season with less than 1?100 recieving yards? Mason is good? but Holt would be an upgrade. 2008 was his first really bad season statistically but he was hurt.

Exactly. Which is why I said 5 years ago I wouldn't even blink. But it's not 5 years ago.

This isn't 2000-2007. It's 2009.

It's over 10+ years into his career, and he's only a couple years younger than Terrell Owens; except with an arthritic knee.

You don't get younger, faster, and better by signing another past-his-prime receiver.

[Raven Domination]

This thing about Tennessee trading for Holt is interesting. Does he REALLY not want to restructure his contract? Or does he simply want to see what all of his options are in free agency? Knowing his age I would think he´s smart enough not expect top money like he wants. Ray wanted top money too and you see how that turned out.

[Jeremiah W]

Exactly. Which is why I said 5 years ago I wouldn't even blink. But it's not 5 years ago.

This isn't 2000-2007. It's 2009.

It's over 10+ years into his career, and he's only a couple years younger than Terrell Owens; except with an arthritic knee.

You don't get younger, faster, and better by signing another past-his-prime receiver.

You are just a negative nancy about everything. I would love to sign Holt for a reasonable incentive type contract. The injury issues are obviously a concern, but he is well worth a close look and a workout as long as he is more interested in winning than up front money.

[Raven Domination]

Exactly. Which is why I said 5 years ago I wouldn't even blink. But it's not 5 years ago.

This isn't 2000-2007. It's 2009.

It's over 10+ years into his career, and he's only a couple years younger than Terrell Owens; except with an arthritic knee.

You don't get younger, faster, and better by signing another past-his-prime receiver.

Sign him to a 2-year deal and get what you can out of him. I don't know if he can still catch for 1?100 yards but I do know the Rams have been sucking for years now with only Holt and Steven Jackson contributing. At worse he's just as good as Mason which isn't a bad thing.

[StingerNLG]

You are just a negative nancy about everything. I would love to sign Holt for a reasonable incentive type contract. The injury issues are obviously a concern, but he is well worth a close look and a workout as long as he is more interested in winning than up front money.

Dude, you are the one claiming we can do fine here with Devard Darling and Clarance Moore. I think you should maybe do a little more keeping of the mouth shut before you start calling other people things.

[StingerNLG]

Sign him to a 2-year deal and get what you can out of him. I don't know if he can still catch for 1?100 yards but I do know the Rams have been sucking for years now with only Holt and Steven Jackson contributing. At worse he's just as good as Mason which isn't a bad thing.

But the issue is signing him to a 2 year deal takes cap space away from maybe signing a Heyward-Bey or Percy Harvin. Or it takes away from our ability maybe to make a push for Bolden. And while I love Derrick Mason, what we don't need on the team is another possession receiver. That is basically what Mason and Clayton are. We need a field stretcher. I continue to hope that's what Demetrius Williams is, but he hasn't proven that yet and has been hurt as well.

I'm just saying you need to get younger at the WR position if we are going to have a workable offense long term. I just don't think Torry Holt solves an offensive problem for us. That's all.

[Jeremiah W]

But the issue is signing him to a 2 year deal takes cap space away from maybe signing a Heyward-Bey or Percy Harvin. Or it takes away from our ability maybe to make a push for Bolden. And while I love Derrick Mason, what we don't need on the team is another possession receiver. That is basically what Mason and Clayton are. We need a field stretcher. I continue to hope that's what Demetrius Williams is, but he hasn't proven that yet and has been hurt as well.

I'm just saying you need to get younger at the WR position if we are going to have a workable offense long term. I just don't think Torry Holt solves an offensive problem for us. That's all.

As much as I want to draft DHB, the chances are Holt will be better this year. Most Wrs take a while to develop, and they do not fall off overnight unless injury took them way down. Most guys recover, just a little slower than when younger.

Holt is an obvious upgrade if healthy and at a good price the Ravens would be stupid to pass. He is alos old enough that drafting a guy would not be affected, but how soon the draft pick needs to produce, and who he gets to learn from can make a difference. I think one year behind Mason and Holt would do wonders for DHB, Nicks, Britt or whoever we draft.

A vet Wr is not a need though, but you always take talent when you can get it. Lorenzo Neal was not a need either, but he is a proven vet that wanted to be here.

[4G63]

In a word: NO. Too old and slow and wants too much $$$$. Thats not something we need now.....

[crazyraven]

You are just a negative nancy about everything.

Negative nancy...:laugh:

Eh, if the price is right why not.

[12jg34]

Can Holt still go? Injuries below the waist rob older players of their speed. If Hold isn't much of a deep threat anymore, what good is he to us?

http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/08/28/torry-holt-knee-may-never-heal-properly-fantasy-impact/

I know that the Ravens need a deep threat, but a good WR is a good WR, regardless of whether he's a deep threat. I think Ravens fans are too fixated on getting a WR that's a deep threat. If the situation presents itself that they could get either a deep threat or a possession WR, obviously take the deep threat. However, if a good possession WR is available, he should still be acquired.

[12jg34]

Sign him to a 2-year deal and get what you can out of him. I don't know if he can still catch for 1?100 yards but I do know the Rams have been sucking for years now with only Holt and Steven Jackson contributing. At worse he's just as good as Mason which isn't a bad thing.

Thank you. It's not a bad thing if the Ravens have two Masons around, especially if the price is right. This team was very close to the Super Bowl last year and the lack of another receiving threat other than Mason was one of the main reasons why. Yes, the team needs a deep threat more than another possession WR, but I'd gladly take another possession receiver if he's good.

Note: I'm not saying Holt is a great possession WR. I'm just saying that if another WR is available who's good but not a deep threat, he must be considered and signed if the price is right.

[RavensDomination]

I'd rather pick up a RT before picking up Holt. Holt is looking for big bucks since this more than likely be his last big contract, I doubt Ozzie would match any offer he would get from other teams with WR corps worse than ours. I guess anything can happen though.

[RAVENOUS52]

My thoughts on Holt?

To echo the sentiments of Coach "Samurai" Mike Singletary:

"Cannot play with him. Cannot win with him. Cannot coach with him. Can't do it. I want winners.":thumbup:

[effo5231]

But the issue is signing him to a 2 year deal takes cap space away from maybe signing a Heyward-Bey or Percy Harvin.

:187734:

You know that our cap space now will be improved by the addition of the rookie pool? We will be given more cash to sign our draft picks.

[StingerNLG]

:187734:

You know that our cap space now will be improved by the addition of the rookie pool? We will be given more cash to sign our draft picks.

Sigh. Welcome newbie.

Yes, but if you think we'll be given enough money to just sign all our draft picks regardless of where we are now, I say to you :187734:

[Raveninwoodlawn]

:187734:

You know that our cap space now will be improved by the addition of the rookie pool? We will be given more cash to sign our draft picks.

The rookie pool is not an additional pool that is added to your cap.

The sole purpose of the rookie pool is to set a limit as to what you can spend on rookies...within your existing cap space.

[effo5231]

The rookie pool is not an additional pool that is added to your cap.

The sole purpose of the rookie pool is to set a limit as to what you can spend on rookies...within your existing cap space.

As the chorus girl said to the vicar, you're doing it all wrong.

Last year the Ravens were awarded $5,045,770 dollars to sign their picks... as in 5 mil in additional money.

And while it's true that 5 mil might not sign everyone, it will definitely get most of the work done. To put it in perspective, the Miami Dolphins signed Michigan tackle Jake Long to a five-year, $57.75 million deal that had a $3 million cap number. The number one over all pick... only cost 3 million against the cap. How much do you really think the number 26th is going to cost?

The Raven's currently have a little under 2 million, plus the expected 4.1 from cutting Rolle. So that's 6. Minus the number for Carr (not sure what it is but at 2 years and 5 million its can't be higher than 1 or 2.) So even if we only get the 5 we got last year (which we won't because the rookie allotment goes up at least 5% every year) we're still looking at:

1.8 plus
4.1 (Cut Rolle) minus
1.5? (Sign Carr) plus
5 (Rookie pool) equals

9.4 give or take half a million.

If we can't sign one more player to an incentive laden deal plus all our picks with 9 million I'll eat my hat.

[festivus]

As the chorus girl said to the vicar, you're doing it all wrong.

I have no idea if you're right but this is a hilarious post and I love this line.

Welcome to the board.

[section553]

DHB solves all our problems.

We do not need another vet WR, and Flacco is going to be fine even throwing to the Devard Darlings and Clarence Moores in the draft. The OC knows how to put points on the board with what we have as long as it is healthy.

How does DHB solve all of our problems? Do you think this guys is coming into the NFL as a polished, can't miss draft pick. It is gonna take some time for this kid to be a star in the NFL, if he ever becomes one. Running routes is pretty important in the NFL, and route running isn't exactly his strongest attribute. Remember how good Vernon Davis was supposed to be? Don't get caught up in all the hype. Hopefully some other team will take DHB before the Ravens make their pick.

[Jeremiah W]

How does DHB solve all of our problems? Do you think this guys is coming into the NFL as a polished, can't miss draft pick. It is gonna take some time for this kid to be a star in the NFL, if he ever becomes one. Running routes is pretty important in the NFL, and route running isn't exactly his strongest attribute. Remember how good Vernon Davis was supposed to be? Don't get caught up in all the hype. Hopefully some other team will take DHB before the Ravens make their pick.

While I do not expect him to be there when we pick, or to come in and start right away, I do see DHB as a good long term #1 Wr solution. A year under Mason and Clayton should help teach proper route running and body control.

I never said he was can't miss, just a good gamble. Just about every draft expert has the same type of projection on him. There is risk, but also the potential for huge reward.

[section553]

While I do not expect him to be there when we pick, or to come in and start right away, I do see DHB as a good long term #1 Wr solution. A year under Mason and Clayton should help teach proper route running and body control.

I never said he was can't miss, just a good gamble. Just about every draft expert has the same type of projection on him. There is risk, but also the potential for huge reward.

Maybe it's not what you meant but you said he solves all of our problems. That made it sound as if he is no gamble at all.

[Jeremiah W]

Maybe it's not what you meant but you said he solves all of our problems. That made it sound as if he is no gamble at all.

He is going to the hall of fame. Is that better? Of course it is a risk, but that is what we need to take in order to develop an elite passing attack. I would be happy with any day 1 Wr they scout and like, but DHB has convinced me.

[baltimore_hokie]

i don't think we should or would take DHB in the first. i do think; however, that we will snag more than one WR in this draft. i can see us taking a DL or LB if somebody slips in the first, as oz said in the press conference. i think we will grab a guy in the second like iglesias/massaquoi and probably in the third too like ramses barden. i don't see any of these late first WR's being worth the pick, and DHB and Nicks could very well not be there when we pick. i'd rather go with maualuga, laurinitis, jackson, gilbert, or one of those guys over a questionable WR.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

As the chorus girl said to the vicar, you're doing it all wrong.

Last year the Ravens were awarded $5,045,770 dollars to sign their picks... as in 5 mil in additional money.

And while it's true that 5 mil might not sign everyone, it will definitely get most of the work done. To put it in perspective, the Miami Dolphins signed Michigan tackle Jake Long to a five-year, $57.75 million deal that had a $3 million cap number. The number one over all pick... only cost 3 million against the cap. How much do you really think the number 26th is going to cost?

The Raven's currently have a little under 2 million, plus the expected 4.1 from cutting Rolle. So that's 6. Minus the number for Carr (not sure what it is but at 2 years and 5 million its can't be higher than 1 or 2.) So even if we only get the 5 we got last year (which we won't because the rookie allotment goes up at least 5% every year) we're still looking at:

1.8 plus
4.1 (Cut Rolle) minus
1.5? (Sign Carr) plus
5 (Rookie pool) equals

9.4 give or take half a million.

If we can't sign one more player to an incentive laden deal plus all our picks with 9 million I'll eat my hat.

Please show me where the Ravens were awarded additional $5million for the draft.

Any link at all.


"The Rookie Cap is the specific pool of money within each franchise's salary cap that is reserved for the signing of recently drafted athletes and any undrafted rookie free agents."

link (http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/nfl-rookie-cap-empirical-analysis-one-nfls-most-closely-guarded-secrets)



"The NFL allots each team a certain amount of money from its salary cap to sign its drafted rookies for their first season."


link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft#Salaries)

[Dave Lap]

If Oz thinks that Holt has enough talent left to help us out and the money to sign him, I say go for it!!

In the meantime we can draft a WR for future and have a year or two to train him.

This seems like a pretty easy call to me.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

BTW as to Holt, I like him more than any WR that has been on the market, but I don't know if that means much at this point.

He is not the same WR he was 3-4 years ago and he has really bad knees...and he will still be playing on turf here.

I don't know if I'd do it, but if he gets the money I think he will be getting, I don't think he will be worth it at all.

[Ravenswarrior19]

I know that the Ravens need a deep threat, but a good WR is a good WR, regardless of whether he's a deep threat. I think Ravens fans are too fixated on getting a WR that's a deep threat. If the situation presents itself that they could get either a deep threat or a possession WR, obviously take the deep threat. However, if a good possession WR is available, he should still be acquired.

I'll agree you can never have too many WRs who are professional, experienced, run good routes, and have consistent hands.

The things I've read about Holt make it sound like his knees are really shot. So, my concern lies not just with his ability to be a deep threat, but with his consistency in any role.

But the Rams were so awful last year, I didn't see a single play from Holt. All I have to go off of is what I've read.

[section553]

He is going to the hall of fame. Is that better? Of course it is a risk, but that is what we need to take in order to develop an elite passing attack. I would be happy with any day 1 Wr they scout and like, but DHB has convinced me.

I just don't know what he has done to convince you.

[sdeclue]

Let's go get Holt.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1089-Baltimore-Sports-Examiner~y2009m3d17-Ravens-Holt-or-Harrison

[B-more Ravor]

As the chorus girl said to the vicar, you're doing it all wrong.

Funny line, but you are wrong.

The rookie pool is not in addition to the overall cap, but a part of it.

They will not be receiving any additional money and will have to allocate a portion of their present Cap to sign their rookies.

[Stealthbirds80]

Would be a great veteran addition for the younger wideouts, but who would we get rid of since we are under 2 million for the salary cap? Is it worth dropping some young up and coming players?