Heroes and Goats...(The Fall of McNabb Edition)

[RAVENOUS52]

*The opinions expressed in this thread are mine and mine alone. They are in no way influenced by the Windbags, loudmouths and cantankerous curmudgeons who exist in this virtual environment and they damn sure don't represent the views of the megalomaniacal staff of The Ravens Twelfth Man Message Board...

HEROES:

1) THE ENTIRE RAVENS DEFENSE- Pitched a shutout in undoubtedly your finest all-around performance of the season, overcoming some of the worse offensive holding I've witnessed in awhile. Forcing 5 turnovers, 2 sacks and more punts than SuperBowl XXXV, dudes like Ed Reed, Haloti Ngata, Jarret Johnson, Fabian Johnson, Samari Rolle and Trevor Pryce made sure that even when the Iggles threatened to score, it was only a pipe dream.:thumbup:

2) LERON MCCLAIN- Keep puttin in work, L-Train. Just good old-fashioned hardnosed running. And if loving the endzone is wrong, you don't wanna be right...:thumbup:

3) DANIEL WILCOX- Dude, you had no right to catch that overthrown ball, but you did, with one hand no less. And you kept your feet in bounds. And your celebration was decent...:179421: :banana:

4) REX RYAN- Take a bow, my brotha...Your defense played as if they are once again the envy of the professional football world at large...:thumbup:

5) MARK CLAYTON- Would have placed you at the 4 spot this week if that front flip hadn't looked so awkward and you didn't receive a 15-yard penalty for doing it... Dahwell...at least you scored again...It's been awhile, eh bro?

Honorable Mentions-

The Home Crowd- Why Andy Reid felt he wanted to give some punk kid the chance to prove himself in front of the loudest crowd in the business is bewildering even to someone like me who watched from a sports bar.

Brendan Ayanbadejo/Jameel McClain- The only two cats worthy of a paycheck on the Special Teams Coverage side this week...:thumbup:

Derrick Mason- A threat to make some unlucky cat miss and get past the 1st Down marker every time you touch the ball. Nice sportmanship shown to that Philly goof who hurt himself, too...:thumbup:

Todd Heap- Looked good on the 19-yard gain. Caused a lot of cats to take their HEEEEEEAAAAPPP chants out of moth balls.

Lorenzo Neal- Dude, I swear your daddy mustv'e been part RHINO.:179421:

Ray Rice- The sky is the limit for you, kid. Just stay healthy and you'll see...:ww: Lovin how you make big gains appear out of seemingly thin air...

GOATS:

1) RAVENS SPECIAL TEAM UNIT-Calling you guys a bunch of weak, arm-tackling pantywaists would be insulting to panties with waste in them.:grbac:

2) YAMON FIGURS- Nothing personal, bro...but your game is lame...:bag: Please stop sullying the special teams reputation built up by Jermaine Lewis, Lamont Brightful and B.J. Sams....:grbac: The only thing more embarassing than watching you fidgetting around waiting for a punt or kick was watching Brian Westbrook get tackled by his jock strap...:bag:

3) JASON BROWN- More than once yesterday you were beaten so badly you could have filed a domestic violence complaint against the Eagles.

4) COREY IVY- Please don't whiff on wide-open sacks, dude...It really doesn't speak well of you when you do that.:eek:

5) JOHN HARBAUGH- Congrats on extending your (2) wasted time-outs streak to 13 consecutive games since the preseason, and even throwing in a delay of game for added measure. Also, aren't you a ST guru? Then why do we still blow chunks:eck15: in that area, for lack of a better word?:229031_confused2: One the flip side, we're winning, so folks will let it slide, but I know it'll kill us against good teams if we don't get it fixed now. Do that and I promise I'll vote for you for Coach of the Year.;)

[Losac]

Ed Reed should have his own "hero" entry.

And seriously, why Harbs? What timeouts did we waste? I was at the game and never remembered thinking why did they take that TO. And wouldn't Flacco be more to blame for the delay of game? We win 36-7 and you still dog the head coach. Look at Andy Reid for bonehead calls (passing on second and inches inside the 1 leading to the Reed 108 yd int return)

[RavinDonnie]

Goat

Cam Cavanaugh- Your offense gets less productive every week. Has the defense scored more points than the offense this year?

[HoustonRaven]

Smooth move, Donnie .... Cavanaugh? :laugh: And wasnt there 2 offensive TD's?

Seriously R52, Harbs must have pissed in your oatmeal in a past life because you have it in for him. I cannot recall a time when Harbs was in some sort of time out trouble.

[POPSinPA]

They give you 3 TO's, may as well use them instead of letting your rookie qb make a mistake.

Ed Reed kinda missing for a reason?

[Rayvens52]

How do you not have Ed Reed anywhere on this list...come on man. Also get off harbs we finally have a pretty good game with not many flags and you still find a way to dog him, I wonder what he has to do to be ok with you?

[math_geek]

Goat

Cam Cavanaugh- Your offense gets less productive every week. Has the defense scored more points than the offense this year?

You can't be serious. Against a tough defense with a banged up offensive line, and you're criticizing the Ravens offensive performance in that game. Heck, we couldn't protect Joe Flacco and I don't think that was the playcallings fault as we saw plenty of runs. Also, did you see the difference in the Ravens offense in the second half? It was huge, and an offense making major adjustments after halftime that are successful is a textbook example of great coaching

[StingerNLG]

Once again, I don't get the John Harbaugh goat thing. I saw no wasted time outs. And how do you blame him for the ST touchdown? Does Harbaugh not have a ST coach?

Enough with the Harbaugh bashing already. 7-4?

[darb72]

Reed was mentioned along with the entire Raven's defense. They all played great yesterday so they all got a Hero Award.

[ravenjoe]

Enjoy your thread as always. But I'd definitely have put Gaither on the Heroes list. The dude demonstrated a lot of guts out there playing with just one arm, and doing an effective job to boot.

[RAVENOUS52]

Enjoy your thread as always. But I'd definitely have put Gaither on the Heroes list. The dude demonstrated a lot of guts out there playing with just one arm, and doing an effective job to boot.

Duly noted. Gaither does deserve HERO status!:thumbup:

Seems like we have a large share of players who gut it out when it counts.

[RAVENOUS52]

Reed was mentioned along with the entire Raven's defense. They all played great yesterday so they all got a Hero Award.

Correct, my large lineman friend...:D

The entire defense, ESPECIALLY this week's GMC Sierra Defensive Player of the Week, ED REED are #1 HEROES in my book!

[RAVENOUS52]

Once again, I don't get the John Harbaugh goat thing. I saw no wasted time outs. And how do you blame him for the ST touchdown? Does Harbaugh not have a ST coach?

Enough with the Harbaugh bashing already. 7-4?

We wasted two because we couldn't get the play off in time and the other time we were flagged for delay of game. That's gonna be unacceptable against good teams. And there is no bashing on my part of any Ravens player or coach. I love them all. I simply give you my opinion and you choose to agree with it or oppose it. That's what this thread is made for; we can disagree and have fun with it. I could have just as easily placed Joe Flacco in the #5 spot on the Goats list-- However his TD to Clayton impressed me enough to leave him off.

We're 7-4 right now, but that means nothing if we don't continue to improve down the stretch. If we keep wasting time outs and shooting ourselves in the foot with dumb penalties, we'll have nobody to blame but ourselves when it comes back to bite us.

By the way, John Harbaugh is my homeboy and overall I love the job he's doing outside of the areas I mention in the GOATS section...:thumbup:

[RAVENOUS52]

Ed Reed should have his own "hero" entry.

And seriously, why Harbs? What timeouts did we waste? I was at the game and never remembered thinking why did they take that TO. And wouldn't Flacco be more to blame for the delay of game? We win 36-7 and you still dog the head coach. Look at Andy Reid for bonehead calls (passing on second and inches inside the 1 leading to the Reed 108 yd int return)

Thought about it, but you know what? The whole defense played lights out and they all deserved the spotlight. Ed Reed was at the head of that list, though and he is easily the next Hall of Famer in what will be a long line of Ravens Defenders.

[Jeremiah W]

Eros
1. Reed
2. Gaither
3. McClain
4. JJ
5. CBs

Not so good.
1. Figurs
2. Willis
3. interior O line blocking early
4. one kick coverage
5. Terry

I am going to chalk up the not so good players to injury but they were not so good. Brown has had a pro bowl season but a bad start to the game. Kick coverag has improved a lot since bringing in Hauscka, but they gave up a Td way too easy.

Flacco, Cam and Wilcox all had good games, and Clayton was a factor but I think the top 5 could not even include all the CBs by name who got picks and shut down very productive Wrs.

[RavensDomination]

You can't be serious. Against a tough defense with a banged up offensive line, and you're criticizing the Ravens offensive performance in that game. Heck, we couldn't protect Joe Flacco and I don't think that was the playcallings fault as we saw plenty of runs. Also, did you see the difference in the Ravens offense in the second half? It was huge, and an offense making major adjustments after halftime that are successful is a textbook example of great coaching

I agree. In the past our half time adjustments left much to be desired. Now it seems like we have the edge in that category. The Eagles defense is very good, better than I thought. I think our offense did what it could with what they had, and people seem to forget that Flacco is still a rookie QB, he might have to burn a timeout every now and then.

[RavensDomination]

Enjoy your thread as always. But I'd definitely have put Gaither on the Heroes list. The dude demonstrated a lot of guts out there playing with just one arm, and doing an effective job to boot.

I agree, I am trying hard not to get too excited about Gaithers progress, but he is showing us a lot this year, he could be something special in a few years.

[RAVENOUS52]

Eros
1. Reed
2. Gaither
3. McClain
4. JJ
5. CBs

Not so good.
1. Figurs
2. Willis
3. interior O line blocking early
4. one kick coverage
5. Terry

I am going to chalk up the not so good players to injury but they were not so good. Brown has had a pro bowl season but a bad start to the game. Kick coverag has improved a lot since bringing in Hauscka, but they gave up a Td way too easy.

Flacco, Cam and Wilcox all had good games, and Clayton was a factor but I think the top 5 could not even include all the CBs by name who got picks and shut down very productive Wrs.

Flacco had a good game? I thought he had one of his worse games of the season. Very inaccurate, held on to the ball too long, refused to use his legs when the opportunity arose, fumbled and showed a lack of pocket awareness (especially in the first half) and we repeatedly squandered the excellent field position the defense gave us throughout the game. That overthrown endzone pass was all extraordinary effort on Wilcox's part on the first TD. We could have easily scored 50+ points if Flack had a "good" game.

With that being said thank God we have a defense that can allow the kid to go through a rough patch or two without skipping a beat.:ww:

[RavensDomination]

Flacco had a good game? I thought he had one of his worse games of the season. Very inaccurate, held on to the ball too long, refused to use his legs when the opportunity arose, fumbled and showed a lack of pocket awareness (especially in the first half) and we repeatedly squandered the excellent field position the defense gave us throughout the game. That overthrown endzone pass was all extraordinary effort on Wilcox's part on the first TD. We could have easily scored 50+ points if Flack had a "good" game.

With that being said thank God we have a defense that can allow the kid to go through a rough patch or two without skipping a beat.:ww:

He held on to the ball because no one was open. The Eagles defense gets paid too, and their secondary is very good, plus they have a lot of sacks. Flacco did well when you consider he had little time to throw, receivers weren't open, and the running game was OK but inconsistent.

[Rxdoxx]

One consideration for Harbs is the decision to inactivate Divens and McKinney and replace them with OTs. Turned out we didn't need the DL rotation to keep the DL fresh, and sure needed the OTs. How can you game plan a concussion? You can't, but somebody put some thought into being as prepared as possible for that game and ended up with the active bodies we needed and didn't really notice we were short on DL.

Figurs is staying at my 1/2 goat status and I'm now starting to consider assigning the other half of that goat to Ayanbadjo- just from the hype and fanfare (and $$$) he arrived with and I really don't remember hearing his name called much this year at all. Would we have given up the KO return if Stills was still here? Speculation that doesn't have any answer, but I've seen enough to award 1/2 goat just on "where is the pro-bowl player we were told we were getting".
Maybe others here are seeing more than I am and can counter what I've come to believe, but until then... 1/2 goat for overall accumulation.

[RAVENOUS52]

He held on to the ball because no one was open. The Eagles defense gets paid too, and their secondary is very good, plus they have a lot of sacks. Flacco did well when you consider he had little time to throw, receivers weren't open, and the running game was OK but inconsistent.


I disagree. A number of times we were in FG position and he took sacks that moved us out of range. If he gets rid of the ball, we at least walk away with 3 points. He was also very erratic on his throws, as compared with his previous efforts. I gave him a C- grade overall.

[Jeremiah W]

Flacco wins as long as he does not turn the ball over, he is an auto hero. He stood in there and took some shots that other teams get 15 yards for without giving up the rock. He also made the throws when we needed them the most. Joe has been dangerous enough to get the 8th man out of the box some of the time at least.

[RAVENOUS52]

One consideration for Harbs is the decision to inactivate Divens and McKinney and replace them with OTs. Turned out we didn't need the DL rotation to keep the DL fresh, and sure needed the OTs. How can you game plan a concussion? You can't, but somebody put some thought into being as prepared as possible for that game and ended up with the active bodies we needed and didn't really notice we were short on DL.

Figurs is staying at my 1/2 goat status and I'm now starting to consider assigning the other half of that goat to Ayanbadjo- just from the hype and fanfare (and $$$) he arrived with and I really don't remember hearing his name called much this year at all. Would we have given up the KO return if Stills was still here? Speculation that doesn't have any answer, but I've seen enough to award 1/2 goat just on "where is the pro-bowl player we were told we were getting".
Maybe others here are seeing more than I am and can counter what I've come to believe, but until then... 1/2 goat for overall accumulation.

Actually I think Ayenbadejo and McClain are our two best ST coverage players. They didn't miss the tackles that sprung Quintin Demps for the 100-yd TD.

[Mwjergs]

Reed is a no brainer for hero. The guy is either managing pain better or he's getting healthier.

Most of the offensive line had issues all day long. In the early part of the game the Eagles barely blitzed as they got front four penetration.

Special teams has shown improvement but has been a disappointment all season. Instead of Harbaugh look at Jerry Rosburg first. He's taken a former position of strength on this team for years and turned it into a question mark. I've heard for years (ex. Marvin lewis is a defensive coach. Why does his defense suck?) and maybe his players don't perform or his assistants aren't doing the job.

It wasn't Flacco's best game. He had a few "almost turnovers' but none that stuck. Poor line play didn't help his cause with McClain the only runner who could make room. He did make plays when he needed to and that's important. You have to play poorly some times but if you can do enough to keep your team in the game that's what counts.

[highwater]

He held on to the ball because no one was open.

Well, that's when you through it away, instead of taking a sack.


The Eagles defense gets paid too

:grbac: I HATE that lame excuse! :thumbdown:

[Jeremiah W]

The other side gets paid too is a very common excuse, but it is the most valid one of all. Credit the oponent for forcing the difficult situtions that led to mistakes. They always build up all week like how will we block the best pass rush in football, and then when we struggle a little but only allow 3 sacks it is like what happened, why did the line not block? Philly has a lot more than 4 good pass rushers. they have a deep and talented D line rotation, complex blitz, stunt and twist games, but the Ravens seemed to figure it out and got them worn down and blocked well in the second half.

[camdenyard]

Reed definitely needs to be called up to the stage to get an individual award. That runback was historic...one for the ages.


Please stop sullying the special teams reputation built up by Jermaine Lewis, Lamont Brightful

AAAARGGH! Tell me you just didn't use Jemaine and Frightful in the same sentence!

[RAVENOUS52]

Reed definitely needs to be called up to the stage to get an individual award. That runback was historic...one for the ages.



AAAARGGH! Tell me you just didn't use Jemaine and Frightful in the same sentence!

Damn, I plead temporary insanity on that one...:grbac:

Brightful was worse than Figurs currently is!!

[FellsPointRaven]

* Fabian's last name is Washington.
* Clayton didn't get penalized 15 yards for that lame celebration.
* Brightful did, and always will, suck.



Entertaining analysis as ever, bud. Although I don't agree with your weekly floggings of Harbaugh - if Ray sees fit to give him a Gatorade shower for beating his old team, I think he is deserving of his props this week. :celery

[RAVENOUS52]

* Fabian's last name is Washington.
* Clayton didn't get penalized 15 yards for that lame celebration.
* Brightful did, and always will, suck.



Entertaining analysis as ever, bud. Although I don't agree with your weekly floggings of Harbaugh - if Ray sees fit to give him a Gatorade shower for beating his old team, I think he is deserving of his props this week. :celery

It's alright, mate...I am prone to error now and then, especially when most of my observations are made while in a semi-buzzed state.:beer:

Maybe you can be my version of the bloke from Pardon The Interruption who can tell me what I messed up each week... Except you don't get paid for it...Sorry bro...:D

[Gwaihir]

I've been thinking, I know that's dangerous, But I can't see how you left Andy Reid off the Heroes list?

I mean, when he pulled McNabb for Kolb to start the second half, I knew the game was OVER! I still can't believe he did that against the Ravens, on the road, in a 10-7 game!!

[RAVENOUS52]

I've been thinking, I know that's dangerous, But I can't see how you left Andy Reid off the Heroes list?

I mean, when he pulled McNabb for Kolb to start the second half, I knew the game was OVER! I still can't believe he did that against the Ravens, on the road, in a 10-7 game!!

Sorry, there's only room for one Reed/Reid on the Heroes list...

And the weight limit is 350 lbs... Sorry Andy.:(

[Gwaihir]

Sorry, there's only room for one Reed/Reid on the Heroes list...

And the weight limit is 350 lbs... Sorry Andy.:(

:rolling:

[RustonRifle]

I wonder'd if R52 keeps Harbs on the goat list as a good luck charm of sorts.

Anyone remember Ross Grimsley, he wouldn't change his underwear as long as he was on a winning streak?

Surely most Raven fans realize what a great job this guy has done this season. Looking in the rear view after the last pre season game it looked like this season was going to fall apart before it even got started.

[sailorsam]

Reed is a no brainer for hero. The guy is either managing pain better or he's getting healthier.

Most of the offensive line had issues all day long. In the early part of the game the Eagles barely blitzed as they got front four penetration.

Special teams has shown improvement but has been a disappointment all season. Instead of Harbaugh look at Jerry Rosburg first. He's taken a former position of strength on this team for years and turned it into a question mark. I've heard for years (ex. Marvin lewis is a defensive coach. Why does his defense suck?) and maybe his players don't perform or his assistants aren't doing the job.

It wasn't Flacco's best game. He had a few "almost turnovers' but none that stuck. Poor line play didn't help his cause with McClain the only runner who could make room. He did make plays when he needed to and that's important. You have to play poorly some times but if you can do enough to keep your team in the game that's what counts.

:iagree:
key stat for Flacco; NO TURNOVERS. I'll take 128 yards w/o the picks. the 10-year vet with the pro-bowls gave it to us twice.
and so Coach Harbs missed a couple. how many people coach 100% perfect games, just as how many players make 100% plays? Big Picture says Harbs is doing great job.
things are good when we have to look hard for five goats.

[HoustonRaven]

I am not so sure about the entire defense getting the hero now that I have had a chance to see the box score.

We gave up a lot of passing yards. Had it not been for the INT's, this may have been a lot closer.

A win is a win and I will still savor it, but they need to shore stuff like that up if we are to compete with playoff teams.

EDIT: Hahahaha .... maybe I should try reading the box score for the Ravens game and not the Pats game.

[purplepoe]

I am not so sure about the entire defense getting the hero now that I have had a chance to see the box score.

We gave up a lot of passing yards. Had it not been for the INT's, this may have been a lot closer.

A win is a win and I will still savor it, but they need to shore stuff like that up if we are to compete with playoff teams.

EDIT: Hahahaha .... maybe I should try reading the box score for the Ravens game and not the Pats game.

I was gonna ask you if you were drinking heavily while watching the game until I read your edit!

PP

[HoustonRaven]

PP,

You would not have been far from the truth if you thought that on game day.

[Dave Lap]

He held on to the ball because no one was open. The Eagles defense gets paid too, and their secondary is very good, plus they have a lot of sacks. Flacco did well when you consider he had little time to throw, receivers weren't open, and the running game was OK but inconsistent.


I agree. I think Flacco was trying to "manage" the game and did an excellent job. He had 0 INT's. He was a little off on a couple of passes but that one to Clayton for a TD was something. I saw it again on tape and slowed it down. From the point of view of the camera, Flacco looks exactly like he's thowing the ball to Heap. His head and body are turned towards Heap and even his throwing motion looks like it's going to Heap. Then the ball seems to shoot out of his hand at an angle to hit Clayton. Sucked the defenders in then made them pay for underestimating him. I think it shows another step in his learning curve. He's discovering the "bait and switch."

[Dave Lap]

I wonder'd if R52 keeps Harbs on the goat list as a good luck charm of sorts.

Anyone remember Ross Grimsley, he wouldn't change his underwear as long as he was on a winning streak?

Surely most Raven fans realize what a great job this guy has done this season. Looking in the rear view after the last pre season game it looked like this season was going to fall apart before it even got started.

Yeah, Harbaugh has really pulled this team together. The players obviously respond to him.

[Rochardrik]

Reed definitely needs to be called up to the stage to get an individual award. That runback was historic...one for the ages.



AAAARGGH! Tell me you just didn't use Jemaine and Frightful in the same sentence!

I agree here! I can't tell you how many times I sat in the stands and turned into Fred Sanford...Lamont, you big dummy!