I thoguht 'd start a Matt Ryan Thread

[otherside_of_tracks]

I've been looking at a few draft outlines, and have seen a few that lands Matt Ryan in B-More. For it to happen the Phines, and Falcons would have to pass him up. the drafts i've seen say the phines get a DE, and Falcons get a OL.

If we get passed pick 5 and Matts not gone, the only problem i see would be the pats trading down to a team that needs a QB. I wouldn't put it past the pats to screw us over. There a few teams that i can see wanting Matt Ryan.

If the Pats don't trade i can't see them picking up ryan, so i think we'd be good.

I wouldn't mind picking him up, but i do not watch college football. So if any of yous would mind teling the good and bad of getting him, and if yous think we sould pass him up if he's there for us.

[BArellano]

I would love to see Matt Ryan in purple and black. With that said, I still think CB is our biggest need. If the scenario plays out so that Ryan falls and we're able to get him, and a very solid CB in round 2, I think that would be best case. But I think it's more likely that they go vice versa, CB in round 1 and QB in round 2. It's very likely that Miami will trade out of the 1st spot or draft a defensive player, but I don't see Atlanta passing up on him.

[JimBone]

I would love to see Matt Ryan in purple and black. With that said, I still think CB is our biggest need. If the scenario plays out so that Ryan falls and we're able to get him, and a very solid CB in round 2, I think that would be best case. But I think it's more likely that they go vice versa, CB in round 1 and QB in round 2. It's very likely that Miami will trade out of the 1st spot or draft a defensive player, but I don't see Atlanta passing up on him.

I agree with you on Matt Ryan, but anyone who has been watching the Ravens since they came to B-more and says QB is not our priority I must take issue. When I think of the revolving door that we've had at QB and the talent we've had at defense I can only question how many games we've lost( and possible championships) without consistent play at QB. Unless you believe
a: Steve McNair will rebound
b: Kyle Boller finally proves he's a starter
c: Troy Smith is ready to take over
I don't see how QB is not our top priority!!!

[AZRAVEN]

Yes, but remember Ozzie and company do not, as a rule, draft for need. They subscribe to the philosophy of best player available. Besides, this year even if we drafted for need a valid argument could be made for CB being an urgent need. DeCosta, himself, expressed disappointment with our backfield corps performance last season and I think most would agree the performance of our backup players certainly didn't help a dismal season. Also, perhaps the new coaching staff will be able to improve Boller's or Smith's performance since Billick was the problem before.

[Mista T]

I don't see how QB is not our top priority!!!

Really? You're serious?

To the contrary, QB isn't close to our highest priority, because:


QBs do not pass rush
QBs do not cover receivers
QBs do not run block and provide pass protection


Our QB play (excluding the washed up McNair's brief stints) has been adequate - not great, not bad. Our DL, OL, and DB play has been somewhere between sub-par and atrocious. Or even worse.

Not that I wouldn't mind getting a rookie QB - just not a 1st rounder, when the team has so many other higher priorities.

Pass on Matt Ryan. He's the best of the lot, but he's not in the league of a Manning or Palmer IMHO. Not worth his media draft status. Not as good a value as some other QBs in lower rounds. If Ryan lands in our laps: trade down!

[jonboy79]

I can see a valid argument for NOT trading up for Ryan, but trading out fo the pick with him in our laps would be silly. He is the best QB in an average draft, very similar in value to many recent top 10 QB's. He is no sure bet, but is as good a bet as there is for a young QB. With that said, it is undeniable that QB is the most important position on the field, or that it is the hardest position to find a real star. When you factor in that this franchise has never had a better then average QB in tow, and I think you would hear the audience BUST OUT LAUGHING if we passed on Ryan. It is beyond no brainer. We were an above average QB from the playoffs last year, the superbowl the year before... The longer we wait to find our QB, the longer we wait for sustained excellence. That is the way in the NFL.

I am accepting of passing on Brohm at 8, as it seems he can be had later/ isn't a monstrous step up from Henne/Flacco. We can go in another direction in the first round but getting past 29 in the draft without a singal caller would be a travesty.

[AZRAVEN]

Remember the adage... DEFENSE wins championships. While I am not happy with our QB situation an argument can also be made that had we had any decent backup CB's when the injury bug hit or a more sustained pass rush from the end when Pryce went down we might not have ended up 5-11. It does trouble me slightly that the best endorsement you can muster for taking Ryan at #8 is he is the best of an average crop. With a #8 I think I'd prefer someone a bit more than that. I'm not so sure I wouldn't prefer to fix some other problems, hope the new coaching staff can improve what we have at QB and take "a leap of faith" that McNair will be stimulated to come into camp in something resembling football shape. But then I don't get the big bucks to make these choices so I should probably stay out of it. lol

[purplepoe]

Our QB play (excluding the washed up McNair's brief stints) has been adequate - not great, not bad.


Sigh.

Your expectations of QB have been skewed by what you've seen over the years.

And if Ryan is there at 8, he's ours.

Too bad he won't be.

PP

[JimBone]

Really? You're serious?

To the contrary, QB isn't close to our highest priority, because:


QBs do not pass rush
QBs do not cover receivers
QBs do not run block and provide pass protection


Our QB play (excluding the washed up McNair's brief stints) has been adequate - not great, not bad. Our DL, OL, and DB play has been somewhere between sub-par and atrocious. Or even worse.
Are you serious or do you just like to disagree with me? When compared to other winning orginizations our QB play has been adequate at its' very best. Even McNairs first year here was average and his play along with poor play calling caust us the game against Indy.
Not that I wouldn't mind getting a rookie QB - just not a 1st rounder, when the team has so many other higher priorities.

Pass on Matt Ryan. He's the best of the lot, but he's not in the league of a Manning or Palmer IMHO. Not worth his media draft status. Not as good a value as some other QBs in lower rounds. If Ryan lands in our laps: trade down!

Do you eally believe the Ravens can get close to another championship with this group of QBs?

[highwater]

I would be happy to pick up Ryan if he's still on the board at eight, but I can't imagine the Falcons passing on him. They need a QB even worse than we do.

Regardless, Ozzie will very likely go for the best player available. If that happens to be Ryan, great, but I don't think he'll last until our pick and I don't think he's worth trading up for.

[HoustonRaven]

Nice dream, but wont happen.

And Im in the camp with those who think we may take someone other then a QB. Think back to Bisciotti's presser. He feels we have a solid core team right now that can make a run next season. That tells me they will give McNair one more chance and, unless they get a deal they cant refuse, the QB position isnt the most pressing need this draft.

[BArellano]

QB is an obvious hole and needs to be addressed in this draft. However, the chance that either Rolle and/or McCalister go down this year is pretty good you have to admit. We saw what happened last year at Heinz Field when our backups are lined up...

I'm just saying that if we don't want another embarrasing 5-11 campaign, we need to address the CB issue. No doubt that QB is a dire need as well, but I think we're much more likely to land solid players at both positions going CB round 1, QB round 2.

[UKRavenStockers]

Really? You're serious?

To the contrary, QB isn't close to our highest priority, because:


QBs do not pass rush
QBs do not cover receivers
QBs do not run block and provide pass protection


Our QB play (excluding the washed up McNair's brief stints) has been adequate - not great, not bad. Our DL, OL, and DB play has been somewhere between sub-par and atrocious. Or even worse.

Not that I wouldn't mind getting a rookie QB - just not a 1st rounder, when the team has so many other higher priorities.

Pass on Matt Ryan. He's the best of the lot, but he's not in the league of a Manning or Palmer IMHO. Not worth his media draft status. Not as good a value as some other QBs in lower rounds. If Ryan lands in our laps: trade down!

I wouldn't even call our QB close to adequate. I don't see how a group of QBs who can't consistently hit and lead receivers on slants, can't consistently hit hook routes in the chest past the first down markers, have poor accuracy on deep out routes, don't challenge defences deep (sure Boller's got a cannon deep but we complete so few passes deep that we can't get teams out of the box) etc.

I see nothing adequate about our QB play, there are certainly teams with worse QB situations than us, but that doesn't excuse not upgrading what is clearly a weak unit.

Our needs IMO are (not in need):

- QB - We haven't got a guy who is a sure start this year, we haven't got a guy to build around for the future, we need a QB.
- WR - We need a bigger body out there, Mason is playing above and beyond but we need a bigger body, bunch of midgets and Clarence "streak of piss" Moore at the mo.
- OL - Need a vet in there somewhere in the starting line up.
- DE - Need more depth here but the pass rush isn't that bad. The only DE I'd consider taking round one (unless by some unfathomable miracle of god Chris Long falls) is Derrick Harvey, besides that we need a big body DE to sit with Pryce in case he's back on the injury trail, we've got enough tweeners for pasing situations.
- CB - When healthy, we're good enough, but we either need guys like Pittman to step up, but we can't rely on that so we need someone new in.


QB is by far our most pressing need IMO, yes it'd be good if our corners could step in and be capable starters, but that isn't realistic in the salary cap era, very few teams have guys who are capable of doing that, other teams are just better at masking it with schemes, we asked them to play on an island which was stupid. New blood wouldn't hurt, but there's no way it's a more pressing need than QB IMO.

[TheExtraPoint]

The second you start approaching the draft looking to fill holes is the second you stop drafting well in my view.

The Ravens would be insane to pass on Matt Ryan, and in my view crazy not to investigate the price-tag on a slight move up the boards.

Are there needs on this team? Sure. A list of them that is much longer than just CB, DE, OL, and QB.

This team isn't close to a Super Bowl contender. One player in the first round isn't going to make our Super Bowl aspirations. We're a long way away.

But when the most promising player in your quarterbacking lineup is a late-round draft pick with two career starts, you have issues.

The Ravens know how much of an aberration 2000-1 was. They won't play that game again. We'll get a quarterback in this draft, and if we're going to do so, why not make it inarguably the best prospect at that position. If he fails, who can really fault us anymore? And for those that want Joe Flacco, he WILL be a first-round draft pick in April. Mark it down, and consider that when advocating waiting until round two or three to get your future star signal caller. Or look at the league's most prominent names that position, and you'll find that with only a few exceptions, these guys are VERY early draft picks - with good reason.

The Kyle Boller experiment was considered a fiasco more because of the circumstances under which he was selected than how atrociously he's performed at times. We weren't trading up for the consensus best player at his position in the draft. We were trading away a future #1 for a player that performed collegiately and otherwise to at best questionably mixed reviews.

This isn't a strong safety playing quarterback we're talking about. This isn't an athlete people are trying to mold into a quarterback. Every aspect of Ryan's make-up and game suggests that he has the tools to become a top-ten or better quarterback in the NFL.

Ryan is way closer to Carson Palmer than to Kyle Boller. End of story. And I'm confident that the Ravens know that.

There is a 0% chance of us passing on him if he's there at 8, and in my mind a strong chance that if he falls within striking distance, we move hard to get him.

[Beerracuda]

I have to agree with Mr T here. While it would be nice to get a really good "career" QB, I personally don't believe Matt Ryan (or any of the other QBs in the draft) is that player. I positively believe that DB is our #1 concern, considering the ages and health of both of our current DBs. Our Super Bowl championship was built on defense, and I think that's what we need to address right now. All of us saw what happens to this team when one or both of our starting CBs are injured. Disaster of epic proportions.

I want to see how our current QBs perform under a totally new coaching staff. We've had a few proven QBs play on this team during the Billick era, and every one of them was no better than last season's players. Everyone always gives credit to the success of the RB position in Denver because of "their system". I'm betting the same can be said about our failure at QB position - the system that was in place. In no way am I saying that any of our 3 QBs are top notch. What I am saying is that we may not have seen everything they can contribute under the old regime.

In my opinion, this is definitely not a good QB class in the draft this year. Why waste a rare #8 pick on this class? I'd love to see us pick up another McAlister for the next 10 years or more. That definitely can be had at #8.

[Mista T]

Do you eally believe the Ravens can get close to another championship with this group of QBs?

Championship? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

We are so far removed from a championship, it doesn't matter. If the next Peyton Manning were in this draft class and available to the Ravens at #8, we still wouldn't be close to another championship. Yeah, sure, I want to see a QB come in to achieve 150 rating with lots of long bomb TDs to score 45 points a game. But it isn't going to happen. And Matt Ryan isn't going to come close to becoming another Peyton Manning. More likely another Joey Harrington instead.

Look at Houston, with David Carr. A very good draft pick who did nothing, because he was surrounded by mediocrity. Substitute Matt Ryan, do nothing to improve our OL (which is going to lose two decent vets), and you'd likely see the same result here.

I see us as maybe a .500 team in 2008, at best, if we draft well (OL, DL, CB on 1st day), they all pan out, and the team plays injury-free. There is no rookie QB who would change that.

[UKRavenStockers]

Just to be clear of this, I'm not taking issue with not wanting to take Matt Ryan, I agree, he's not what he's hyped up to be. I'm in disagreement with anyone that doesn't think QB is our most pressing need.

[RustonRifle]

Our QB play (excluding the washed up McNair's brief stints) has been adequate - not great, not bad.



:grbac: Holy Smokes :grbac:

This statement is absolutely ludicrous.

The Qb play in Baltimore as been pathetic for the most part. The current stable has issues Boller absolutely sucks @ss, McNair may never be injury free and Smith is unproven. I'll give Troy his due , in his 2 game stint he showed more promise than Boller ever has.

The heinous QB play has been the problem on this team for years. If a QB that can play falls into our lap at 8 or we can trade up to get Ryan in a trade that doesn't mortgage the future, you jump on it.

A dream scenario for me is for the Ravens to get Flacco or Ryan and cut or trade Boller if the can find a GM stupid enough to give us something for him.

Just say no to Colt Brennan, this guy has Boller written all over him , except he made plays in college.

I have no doubts if they have an open QB competition with Boller and Smith, Boller will get beat like a drum.

[camdenyard]

Am I the only one who isn't sold on Ryan as someone who will NOT go all Heath Shuler on us?

I watched him in the MD game and he looked lost.

[jonboy79]

But when the most promising player in your quarterbacking lineup is a late-round draft pick with two career starts, you have issues.

The Ravens know how much of an aberration 2000-1 was. They won't play that game again. We'll get a quarterback in this draft, and if we're going to do so, why not make it inarguably the best prospect at that position. .


This is a significantly more elequent way to say what I've been trying to cram down people's throats since midseason.... Thanks TEP!

[festivus]

Am I the only one who isn't sold on Ryan as someone who will NOT go all Heath Shuler on us?

I watched him in the MD game and he looked lost.

I'm not sold on Matt Ryan. Heck I'm not sold on *anybody* at any position; I freely confess to ignorance.

I am bone-weary of the sorry excuses for QBs we've fielded since, and I am not kidding, Vinny Testaverde. From strong armed losers like Grbac and Blake, to eternally raw talent, like Stone Case and (dare I say it) Boller, to suddenly-old veterans like Mitchell and McNair, I am. just. tired.

It's easy for me, the fan, to announce I want to gamble that at No. 8 we will be able to get the mythical Quarterback Of The Future, and that is exactly what I am going to do.

Draft Matt! Draft Matt! Draft Matt!

[Beerracuda]

Well, I see a lot of "we need to draft a QB!" here. I also see things like "Matt Ryan is the best QB in the draft!" I won't dispute that latter statement. Matt Ryan probably IS the best QB in this draft. That being said, just because he's the best QB in a weak draft for QBs, does that mean we absolutely positively HAVE to draft him if he's available at #8? Remember, QB is a very iffy position when drafting high. There have been a ton of busts in the top echelon of QBs coming into any given draft. Occasionally, there are keepers, but more often than not most of these QBs touted so highly turn out to be just mediocre.

I don't think it's worth our #8 to draft the best of weak class when we have more pressing needs, especially when the odds of drafting that high will land you a high-level player at a position other than QB.

[purplepoe]

Well, I see a lot of "we need to draft a QB!" here. I also see things like "Matt Ryan is the best QB in the draft!" I won't dispute that latter statement. Matt Ryan probably IS the best QB in this draft. That being said, just because he's the best QB in a weak draft for QBs, does that mean we absolutely positively HAVE to draft him if he's available at #8? Remember, QB is a very iffy position when drafting high. There have been a ton of busts in the top echelon of QBs coming into any given draft. Occasionally, there are keepers, but more often than not most of these QBs touted so highly turn out to be just mediocre.

I don't think it's worth our #8 to draft the best of weak class when we have more pressing needs, especially when the odds of drafting that high will land you a high-level player at a position other than QB.

Drafting ANY player in the top 10 is iffy.

There are all gambles.

PP

[Beerracuda]

Drafting ANY player in the top 10 is iffy.

There are all gambles.

PP

I totally agree. But I will submit that QB is probably the most iffy position in the draft. Solid picks are more common amongst defensive players in the Top 10. Even disregarding the reasons I gave earlier in this thread, I'd rather play the odds.

[festivus]

What odds? What *are* the odds?

Let's look at the last ten years just at pick #1, with number of Pro Bowl selections in the last column:
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB 0
2006 Mario Williams DE 0
2005 Alex Smith QB 0
2004 Eli Manning QB 0
2003 Carson Palmer QB 2
2002 David Carr QB 0
2001 Michael Vick QB 3
2000 Courtney Brown DE 0
1999 Tim Couch QB 0
1998 Peyton Manning QB 7

And pick #2:
2007 Calvin Johnson WR 0
2006 Reggie Bush RB 0
2005 Ronnie Brown RB 0
2004 Robert Gallery OT 0
2003 Charles Rogers WR 0
2002 Julius Peppers DE 3
2001 Leonard Davis OT 0
2000 LaVar Arrington LB 3
1999 Donovan McNabb QB 5
1998 Ryan Leaf QB 0

Hah! Ryan Leaf. There's a blast from the past. Anyway of those 20 players we are left with ten QB's and ten non-QB's. Now to compare Pro Bowl appearances:

10 QBs: 17
10 non-QBs: 6

Not scientific, not in the least. But curious, and I certainly had no idea what the numbers would look like when I began the research (at www.nfl.com, if anyone cares to check).

[purplepoe]

What odds? What *are* the odds?

Let's look at the last ten years just at pick #1, with number of Pro Bowl selections in the last column:
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB 0
2006 Mario Williams DE 0
2005 Alex Smith QB 0
2004 Eli Manning QB 0
2003 Carson Palmer QB 2
2002 David Carr QB 0
2001 Michael Vick QB 3
2000 Courtney Brown DE 0
1999 Tim Couch QB 0
1998 Peyton Manning QB 7

And pick #2:
2007 Calvin Johnson WR 0
2006 Reggie Bush RB 0
2005 Ronnie Brown RB 0
2004 Robert Gallery OT 0
2003 Charles Rogers WR 0
2002 Julius Peppers DE 3
2001 Leonard Davis OT 0
2000 LaVar Arrington LB 3
1999 Donovan McNabb QB 5
1998 Ryan Leaf QB 0

Hah! Ryan Leaf. There's a blast from the past. Anyway of those 20 players we are left with ten QB's and ten non-QB's. Now to compare Pro Bowl appearances:

10 QBs: 17
10 non-QBs: 6

Not scientific, not in the least. But curious, and I certainly had no idea what the numbers would look like when I began the research (at www.nfl.com, if anyone cares to check).

In a nutshell you just bebunked the "QBs are more likely to be bust" myth.

They are talked about more because they are QBs and therefore when they bust it's a bigger story.

PP

[AZRAVEN]

Pro bowl selection is about the last criteria I would use for evaluating a player. That thing is nothing but a popularity contest that should be done away with. Look at the players every year selected who are either having bad years or are totally past their prime but they have name recognition so they are selected year after year.

[Beerracuda]

What odds? What *are* the odds?

Let's look at the last ten years just at pick #1, with number of Pro Bowl selections in the last column:
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB 0
2006 Mario Williams DE 0
2005 Alex Smith QB 0
2004 Eli Manning QB 0
2003 Carson Palmer QB 2
2002 David Carr QB 0
2001 Michael Vick QB 3
2000 Courtney Brown DE 0
1999 Tim Couch QB 0
1998 Peyton Manning QB 7

And pick #2:
2007 Calvin Johnson WR 0
2006 Reggie Bush RB 0
2005 Ronnie Brown RB 0
2004 Robert Gallery OT 0
2003 Charles Rogers WR 0
2002 Julius Peppers DE 3
2001 Leonard Davis OT 0
2000 LaVar Arrington LB 3
1999 Donovan McNabb QB 5
1998 Ryan Leaf QB 0

Hah! Ryan Leaf. There's a blast from the past. Anyway of those 20 players we are left with ten QB's and ten non-QB's. Now to compare Pro Bowl appearances:

10 QBs: 17
10 non-QBs: 6


Wait a sec, let's go down that list (QBs) for a sec:

JaMarcus Russell - Jury's still out
Alex Smith - Looking like a bust. If you ask people in SF, they'll say he already is.
Eli Manning - Did well this year naturally, but most people in NY were calling for his head for the past 3 years. How he fares from here on out we'll see.
Carson Palmer - Legitimate QB, but then we pretty much knew that at draft time.
David Carr - How many teams has he been with so far in his short career?
Michael Vick - No Comment. However, I do think he was overrated BEFORE the dog fighting scandal came out.
Tim Couch - I don't even need to address this one.
Peyton Manning - Speaks for itself. However, he was another one of those "highly touted" QBs in his draft. See Carson Palmer.

So out of those 8 Top #1 pick QBs, only 2 of them have been "career" players. 2 are still unknown entities. 1 is mediocre. 1 is in jail and probably done for his career. And 2 are either busts, or looking like a bust.

And that's over the course of 10 years. 10 YEARS. And those are #1 picks.

As for the pro-bowl, Derek Anderson made the pro-bowl this year, so I need not comment.

What I'd like to see is a list of Top 10 defensive players drafted during that same period. It'd be interesting to see how many became decent starters and how many were busts. (I'll admit I'm too lazy to do the research myself. LOL)


But really though, why are we talking about #1 picks? Our pick is #8. Certainly you can try to make a good point when only referring to #1s (or #2s). The whole point of this thread was determining who we should draft at #8. I still say defense.

By the way, this is a good thread. A spirited debate without anyone getting hostile, unlike some other Ravens board.

[purplepoe]

Wait a sec, let's go down that list (QBs) for a sec:

JaMarcus Russell - Jury's still out
Alex Smith - Looking like a bust. If you ask people in SF, they'll say he already is.
Eli Manning - Did well this year naturally, but most people in NY were calling for his head for the past 3 years. How he fares from here on out we'll see.
Carson Palmer - Legitimate QB, but then we pretty much knew that at draft time.
David Carr - How many teams has he been with so far in his short career?
Michael Vick - No Comment. However, I do think he was overrated BEFORE the dog fighting scandal came out.
Tim Couch - I don't even need to address this one.
Peyton Manning - Speaks for itself. However, he was another one of those "highly touted" QBs in his draft. See Carson Palmer.

So out of those 8 Top #1 pick QBs, only 2 of them have been "career" players. 2 are still unknown entities. 1 is mediocre. 1 is in jail and probably done for his career. And 2 are either busts, or looking like a bust.

And that's over the course of 10 years. 10 YEARS. And those are #1 picks.

As for the pro-bowl, Derek Anderson made the pro-bowl this year, so I need not comment.

What I'd like to see is a list of Top 10 defensive players drafted during that same period. It'd be interesting to see how many became decent starters and how many were busts. (I'll admit I'm too lazy to do the research myself. LOL)


But really though, why are we talking about #1 picks? Our pick is #8. Certainly you can try to make a good point when only referring to #1s (or #2s). The whole point of this thread was determining who we should draft at #8. I still say defense.

By the way, this is a good thread. A spirited debate without anyone getting hostile, unlike some other Ravens board.

The problem I see with your theory is you are taking defensive players (the whole side of the ball) and comparing it to one position on the offense.

PP

[Beerracuda]

The problem I see with your theory is you are taking defensive players (the whole side of the ball) and comparing it to one position on the offense.

PP

Fair enough argument. Let's limit it to Corners and Safeties.

[purplepoe]

Fair enough argument. Let's limit it to Corners and Safeties.

Again, you are talking about 4 positions on the field compared to one. And in this day and age, it's more like 5 and sometimes 6.

I have a feeling this argument might be pointless unless you decide to do the research because I sure as hell won't!!!

PP

[jonboy79]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft

there is the research... do 84 to 05 by position, 0-10 rating, highest avewrage rating wins. Peyton Manning = 10 Ki Jana Carter = 0.

[Beerracuda]

Look, the Ravens need quite a few fixes. Do you all REALLY believe that someone like Matt Ryan is the answer to us getting back to the Super Bowl? I mean, REALLY? Even if he was the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning, do you really believe that he'd succeed with our O-line? Of course you don't think that.

This is a rebuilding year. It only makes sense to rebuild our aging defense first, like we did from the mid 90s on. What sense does it make to draft a questionable (at best) QB for the future? If another Peyton Manning type was there in the first round, I'd be the first to say DRAFT HIM, ANY WAY POSSIBLE!! But he's not, and so we're left with just a so-so lot. No thanks on any of them. I'll take defense first.

[purplepoe]

Look, the Ravens need quite a few fixes. Do you all REALLY believe that someone like Matt Ryan is the answer to us getting back to the Super Bowl? I mean, REALLY? Even if he was the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning, do you really believe that he'd succeed with our O-line? Of course you don't think that.

This is a rebuilding year. It only makes sense to rebuild our aging defense first, like we did from the mid 90s on. What sense does it make to draft a questionable (at best) QB for the future? If another Peyton Manning type was there in the first round, I'd be the first to say DRAFT HIM, ANY WAY POSSIBLE!! But he's not, and so we're left with just a so-so lot. No thanks on any of them. I'll take defense first.

Whoa Whoa Whoa.

I don't believe Matt Ryan or ANY QB will lead this team to the Super Bowl next year. However, I like him alot and think he will be a good to great QB in the NFL. If you want to wait until "the next Peyton Manning" comes along before we draft a QB in the 1st round, you could be waiting a decade. And who's to say we'd be in a position to draft a guy like that anyway? Believe me, if the Ravens think Ryan is "questionable", there's no way in hell they'd draft him at #8.

If the Ravens have him ranked as highly as has been reported, they'll take him. And by the way, the FO has said numerous time that they think this team can make a run. I don't believe it. By all accounts Matt Ryan is a top 10 talent. Not because teams need QBs but because the consensus is that he belongs there.

And I would argue that if the FO truly believes the core of this team can make a Super Bowl run that would make us NOT draft a QB but instead do what you want and draft a defensive player that could step right in and contribute.

If this was a true rebuilding year then wouldn't it make sense to draft a QB of the future?

This phobia to drafting a QB high that some people have is nuts!

Seems like we look at this whole thing exactly opposite.

PP

[tnsmith90]

I have to ask this question. If you guys were more sure of Ryan as a prospect would you be more for taking him? Say he was "random top QB", and was as highly touted as Ryan is, but is not Ryan. Would you take him?

I know that may be kind of confusing, but I guess I'm asking if you're against taking Matt Ryan the prospect, or just against taking any top QB prospect of Ryan's hype.

[RavensFan4Life52]

I say dont draft ryan with the 8th pick cuz 1st round qb's are suspect so use the 8th to draft a cb like dominque-rogers cromartie who has amazing coverage skills and good hands and blazing speed and wiht our second round if Joe Flacco is still around draft him. He is a 6'6 qb with the best arm in this years draft. I love Troy Smith and would love to see him start but if we get joe flacco i would like to see them compete and let the best one start. McNair is washed up, boller never panned out so get rid of them. I just want to win next year iam sick of this losing.

[festivus]

I say dont draft ryan with the 8th pick cuz 1st round qb's are suspect so use the 8th to draft a cb like dominque-rogers cromartie who has amazing coverage skills and good hands and blazing speed and wiht our second round if Joe Flacco is still around draft him. He is a 6'6 qb with the best arm in this years draft. I love Troy Smith and would love to see him start but if we get joe flacco i would like to see them compete and let the best one start. McNair is washed up, boller never panned out so get rid of them. I just want to win next year iam sick of this losing.

:ref:

Wall of text, failure of punctuation. Ten yards, repeat first down.

Further infractions will result in loss of down.

:ref:

[HoustonRaven]

While difficult to read, I agree with the new poster that Flacco deserves a look.

My only concern with Flacco would be his feet -- we works the pocket with about as much grace as me walking out of One Eyed Mikes on a Saturday night.

[JimBone]

Championship? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

We are so far removed from a championship, it doesn't matter. If the next Peyton Manning were in this draft class and available to the Ravens at #8, we still wouldn't be close to another championship. Yeah, sure, I want to see a QB come in to achieve 150 rating with lots of long bomb TDs to score 45 points a game. But it isn't going to happen. And Matt Ryan isn't going to come close to becoming another Peyton Manning. More likely another Joey Harrington instead.

Look at Houston, with David Carr. A very good draft pick who did nothing, because he was surrounded by mediocrity. Substitute Matt Ryan, do nothing to improve our OL (which is going to lose two decent vets), and you'd likely see the same result here.

I see us as maybe a .500 team in 2008, at best, if we draft well (OL, DL, CB on 1st day), they all pan out, and the team plays injury-free. There is no rookie QB who would change that.

I must disagree with that asessment. My point is you want to build around a Qb, not a CB or DE. I agree on us being far removed from a championship. We have way too many holes to fill. Personally I would rather bring in a promising young QB and build around him. It worked out well for Pissburgh, Indy, and NY Giants. I think we'll both agree though that any pick in the top ten is a gamble.

[psuasskicker]

Drafting ANY player in the top 10 is iffy.

There are all gambles.

PP

This is of course true, but some are bigger gambles than others.


I totally agree. But I will submit that QB is probably the most iffy position in the draft.

This isn't really true. A friend of mine did an analysis on this on another board...breaking down by position, top ten and top round draft picks for the last few years. Honestly I don't remember exactly which was the riskiest, and there was some subjectivity to the analysis. But QB wasn't the top. IIRC, it was WR, followed closely by DB. QB was high on that list for sure.

Consistently the least risky pick by a long shot was OL. Followed by DL though DT was less risky than DE. There have been very few top rated OT busts in the NFL, at least in relation to strong OL picks; both in the top ten and top round. Say, for instance, the Ravens were picking #1 overall. Our biggest needs, without question and in no particular order, are QB, OT, DE, and DB. There's no DB worth the #1 overall selection. The other three could be covered by it...Ryan at QB, Long at DE, Long at OT.

Based on this it seems to me that either Long is clearly a better choice than Ryan.


Let's look at the last ten years just at pick #1, with number of Pro Bowl selections in the last column

Interesting, but somewhat arbitrary. ProBowl isn't a great measure of things. You have to consider what sort of productivity you get from that player overall. For instance, it would be fairly easy to argue that Carson Palmer was a better draft pick than Mike Vick, despite having 1 fewer Pro Bowl appearance. You also don't have nearly a big enough sample size to argue statistical significance...Peyton Manning seriously skews those numbers. Plus, you would have to positionally adjust how many players go each year vs. picks at the position. i.e. When you have 10 QBs on your list in a 32 team league where 6 go to the Pro Bowl, it's far easier for them to show up in the Pro Bowl vs. your 2 WRs where I think 8 go each year.

At #8, Ryan's probably too good a value to pass on, but I doubt he'll be there then anyway. Flacco at #8 is crazy talk.

Clady or McKelvin would be good value. Honestly though, I see six really top value guys with a seventh that I'd really like. Everyone #8 - #20 looks the same to me, which makes me REALLY hope we trade down if these seven are all off the board for our pick. If any of these seven fall to us, here's who I'd want in the order I'd want them if more than one falls...
1) Long (DE)
2) Long (OT)
3) Ryan
4) McFadden
5) Dorsey
6) Ellis
7) Gholston

I'm really hoping someone surprising goes somewhere in front of us cause those seven are CLEARLY above everyone else in this draft. It's the NFL draft, so you can always think something screwy's gonna happen. If not though, I'd love to trade down into the teens or even out of the top 20.

- C -

[festivus]

Interesting, but somewhat arbitrary. ProBowl isn't a great measure of things. You have to consider what sort of productivity you get from that player overall. For instance, it would be fairly easy to argue that Carson Palmer was a better draft pick than Mike Vick, despite having 1 fewer Pro Bowl appearance. You also don't have nearly a big enough sample size to argue statistical significance...Peyton Manning seriously skews those numbers. Plus, you would have to positionally adjust how many players go each year vs. picks at the position. i.e. When you have 10 QBs on your list in a 32 team league where 6 go to the Pro Bowl, it's far easier for them to show up in the Pro Bowl vs. your 2 WRs where I think 8 go each year.

All fair enough but (a) I wasn't trying for anything scientific, (b) using Pro Bowl appearances gives a relative weight to each selection; otherwise I would end up just giving each a value, which would be at least as arbitrary, perhaps even moreso.

Anyway I think I made my point, which was that the oft-stated aphorism that taking a QB high in the 1st is especially risky, may not be born out by actual fact. Which you go on to support yourself, which is fine with me.
:toast:

[GirlsKickButt]

I'm not sold on Ryan.

After watching 2 of his games (with the help of my trusty TiVo), I saw

+Poor footwork - he frequently threw off his back foot and once, from his tip toes, w/o pressure.

+Throws that wouldn't work in the NFL

Besides that, he hasn't faced a high level of competition (the ACC isn't the Big-10 or SEC) and the number of INTs he threw bothers me.

I'd much rather draft Chad Henne from Michigan. Four-year starter, in a legit program, great intangibles, had a great postseason and Senior Bowl. I think he'll be the best QB of this draft (and I'm hoping the Ravens can get him in Round 2).

We need CBs first and foremost. Without a CB, Rex's schemes are not effective. I want Leodis McKelvin at #8. He's going to be a good one.

Flame away....

[Beerracuda]

Thank you, GKB. I agree with everything you've said. Especially the part about the level of competition in the ACC.

Furthermore, we really need another shutdown corner. If our blitz packages aren't effective, then we'll get burned if an opposing WR is given more than 5 seconds or so to break open, which is exactly what we saw when CMac and Rolle were injured. If we can draft a high-level CB, I'd like to see Rolle eventually move to safety. Or bring him in on nickel packages.

I'd have no problems with drafting Henne in the 2nd round, as I think we can probably get a decent DT in later rounds.

[purplepoe]

Thank you, GKB. I agree with everything you've said. Especially the part about the level of competition in the ACC.

Furthermore, we really need another shutdown corner. If our blitz packages aren't effective, then we'll get burned if an opposing WR is given more than 5 seconds or so to break open, which is exactly what we saw when CMac and Rolle were injured. If we can draft a high-level CB, I'd like to see Rolle eventually move to safety. Or bring him in on nickel packages.

I'd have no problems with drafting Henne in the 2nd round, as I think we can probably get a decent DT in later rounds.

Couple of things.

Since when is drafting guys based on their competition a good thing? Great QBs have come from small and big schools.

Second, Rolle is far too small and frail to play safety.

And again, I really don't get this phobia of drafting a QB in the first round, especially if we have him ranked in our top 5 and he's there at 8.

PP

[Beerracuda]

PP,

I don't have a problem with drafting a QB in the first round. However, my stance is that this year's QB class is simply not worth a #8, regardless of how the Ravens or any other NFL teams rank him. It's all a matter of opinion, and mine is that we need a CB this year when compared to the QBs available.

That being said, if there was a sure-fire QB in the first round (a Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, etc for example), then yes, I'd be all for drafting him at #8 (or trade up as would likely have to happen).

[HoustonRaven]

That being said, if there was a sure-fire QB in the first round (a Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, etc for example), then yes, I'd be all for drafting him at #8 (or trade up as would likely have to happen).

How can you say this? Doesnt that require knowing what the future holds for the QB's you want?

For example, Peyton wasnt the "sure-fire QB" that draft year. Ryan Leaf was. And that's exactly the point PP was trying to make (I think). You never know what you're going to get.

This league is riddled with examples of the "sure-fire QB" ending up being a bust.

We're going to take the best player available. That's been Ozzie's MO since he's been drafting.

[factmeister]

Matt Ryan will not be there at #8. Our meaningless late season victory over Pittsburgh saved them from the danger of having to face a quarterback that can match big Ben for possibly the next 10 years.
Many of the posters are talking about short term needs.
This makes sense only if you are ready to make a Superbowl run now,or if you want to play for respectability.
When Ernie Accorsi went all out to trade for Eli Manning,they didn't even have a respectable offensive line.
None of this matters if you draft a Matt Ryan,because it typically takes until late third season before you can even see potential pan out.
For example,John Elway,one of the most gifted quarterbacks,was a joke as a rookie,and below average as a sophomore.
Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers just came into their own in year four.
I have no clue as to Matt Ryan's potential.
However,if Ozzie comes to the same conclusion as Mel Kiper (in saying that he is the next Eli Manning),then I would offer the Dolphins a package including our #1 and Tyell Suggs to get him.
We then can trade or release any player that doesn't fit into our 2010 plans.
By then,our Qb will be ready,and we can be buyers on the FA. mkt.
Incidentally,as I mentioned in my previous posts,no Qb under 6-5 has won a Superbowl since Kurt Warner won it at 6-4(sorry Troy Smith).
This means that drafting or even starting a shorter QB means that you are willing to accept mediocrity.
I for one hope that the Ravens are willing to go all out to rebuild for a future long term championship run,then retool for the upcoming season.
The last time Baltimore was involved in a QB dealing we received an all -pro lineman named Chris Hinton,another #1 who became Ron Solt,and a rag -armed QB named Marc Hermann.
The Broncos never looked back.
Let's be BOLD.

[Dont Know]

The list of Ravens front office atendees from his pro day workout is in.

Kokinis and DeCosta (as one could expect) and Andy Moeller from the coaches rank, which would seem like an odd choice to help evaluate a QB.

Given the presence of Moeller from the coaching ranks, is it too far fetched to think we are looking into drafting a BC lineman and/or possibly a TE?

[jonboy79]

I would imagine that in adition to Ryan, they were especially interested in Gosder Cherilius, and to a lesser extent Jamie SIlva and DeJaun Tribble. All have value at SOME point in the draft. Moeller could indicate a possible use of our pick at 39 in Cherilius, or perhaps not.

[LOT"H"TAILGATER]

Our need for a good corner back out weighs everything, we can trade down with someone like philly , get a 15th pick and get back a good 3rd round for our 8th pick :jester: and still pick up antonio rodgers -cromartie, this guy has lightning fast speed and good hands. http://www.profootball24x7.com/forum/images/smilies/jester.gif
:jester:

[psuasskicker]

With Atlanta picking up another second round pick (which isn't a lock yet, but probable), I think it's entirely possible Ryan winds up falling to us. Gonna be really interesting to see what we do if he does...

- C -

[UKRavenStockers]

With Atlanta picking up another second round pick (which isn't a lock yet, but probable), I think it's entirely possible Ryan winds up falling to us. Gonna be really interesting to see what we do if he does...

- C -

Yep I'm starting to think that too. Atlanta appear to be accumulating 2nd round selections to move into the tail end of round 1 and pick up either Brohm or Henne. That would leave Miami as the only team ahead of us likely to pick Ryan. Though you can never count out the Patriots setting up a bidding war at #7 for a team to move up for Ryan.

[psuasskicker]

Yep I'm starting to think that too. Atlanta appear to be accumulating 2nd round selections to move into the tail end of round 1 and pick up either Brohm or Henne. That would leave Miami as the only team ahead of us likely to pick Ryan. Though you can never count out the Patriots setting up a bidding war at #7 for a team to move up for Ryan.

First, I think it's quite possible the Falcons are actually targetting Flacco if they want to move into the first round. The other two they can probably get where they pick in the 2nd. Second, I'm not entirely sure they're looking to move up. The additional second round pick allows them to easily use that selection on a QB, get a less risky stud prospect in the first round (Ellis, Dorsey, maybe even Clady), and still have a high second round pick to fill another need position.

Brohm is an interesting candidate for them. I'm not entirely sure why he's in a complete free-fall right now, but he could make a great selection for them with one of their second round picks. He's the most NFL-ready of these QBs, so he might actually be able to step in now and play at least not-completely-suck-ass QB.

I'm questioning right now how likely we would be to take Ryan if he falls to us. I'm backing off my earlier statement that I'd be pissed if we don't take him. I think we should if he's there. But I also wouldn't beat myself up if we don't.

For all the positives about him, he definitely comes with some risk. Honestly I'm almost tempted to say I'd like to try to trade down with say Carolina if he's still there and see if he falls to us at #13. We risk Chicago leap-frogging us if we do that, but I'm okay taking that risk. At this point I wouldn't be too disappointed if he winds up falling to #8 and we don't get him.

- C -

[OriAl]

Ryan would be road kill behind our line, as any QB would be. Our problem on offense is pass blocking, not Kyle Boller, who has improved each season despite poor pass protection. Offense begins with the offensive line - if we improve our pass protection, we improve our offense.

Remember the Super Bowl? Tom Brady, the second coming of Unitas, we're told, was under constant pressure (like a Ravens QB), as opposed to the 7+ seconds per pass attempt he was accustomed to, and he was mediocre. 14 points, and a 77 rating.

[RavenScallywag]

I can't agree that all the problems can be placed on our OL. Boller looked at least somewhat better when relieving McNair, at least early in the season. Troy Smith looked somewhat better than Boller when Troy relieved him.

Also, if you blame the OL, can you pinpoint the position that's to blame and how you'd fix it? LT was shakier than usual last year when Adam Terry and Jared Gaither was in there, but they weren't too bad, and Ogden was still better than average. Jason Brown has been spectacular at LG. C, I will give you, I think we need to groom a good C to get in there. RG, we've got Grubbs who should be great this year. RT, started out as Terry, then Yanda took over, and despite the fact he'd never played there before, Yanda seemed to hold his own towards the end of the year.

My point is at #8, you're really looking at only OTs. The G and C in the draft are really not even first round talent. Even then, at #8, most likely Long is gone...Otah and Clady are your best bets, but Clady tanked on his Wonderlic and Otah is probably a big reach. If a guy like Ryan is there at #8, I say unless someone is there who will give up the moon to get him, take him and look at OL talent in Rounds 2 or 3 (comp pick).

[purplepoe]

Ryan would be road kill behind our line, as any QB would be. Our problem on offense is pass blocking, not Kyle Boller, who has improved each season despite poor pass protection. Offense begins with the offensive line - if we improve our pass protection, we improve our offense.

Remember the Super Bowl? Tom Brady, the second coming of Unitas, we're told, was under constant pressure (like a Ravens QB), as opposed to the 7+ seconds per pass attempt he was accustomed to, and he was mediocre. 14 points, and a 77 rating.

Yawn.

It's always good for a laugh when people bring up Brady in conversations about Boller.

Kyle Boller stinks. He's not a legit starting QB in this league and the FO knows it.

PP

[HEAP86HEAP]

-Our win against the steelers only moved us down 1 spot in the draft. 1 single spot. Please stop saying we should have lost that game.

-Matt Ryan carried Boston College his senior season. Ever notice how most of Ryan's deep throws were after a scramble drill? That is because his WRs sucked and can't get open on normal routes. His new coach, Jags, abandoned the running game early in the season, even though BC was built to run the ball by the previous staff. Jags wanted to throw, throw, throw, even though the WRs were garbage. Jags was the OC for Green Bay before becoming the head coach for Boston College. Watch the drop off on offense for them next year and you will fully understand what Matt Ryan meant to his team.

Under the old staff, led by Tom O'Brien, the offense was heavy on the run, and used the TE receiving a bunch. The WRs got some catches too, but it was always a result of the other team stacking the box to stop the run. Ryan looked much better in this system, and this system was much closer to what I think of as Raven football.


If we can get him at 8, great. Take him without blinking. Trading up is too expensive.

[highwater]

It's always good for a laugh when people bring up Brady in conversations about Boller.

I don't think he was comparing Brady to Boller, he was simply pointing out that when under constant pressure, as Brady was in the Super Bowl, then he's not that great. I think his point was about the importance of pass protection.

As for me, I am (perhaps foolishly) optimistic that the pass protection will get better this season. I like Grubbs, I still think Terry can be good at LT, and I'm hoping that Chester can bulk up a little and live up to the potential that the FO saw in him.

[jonboy79]

I can't agree that all the problems can be placed on our OL. Boller looked at least somewhat better when relieving McNair, at least early in the season. Troy Smith looked somewhat better than Boller when Troy relieved him.

Also, if you blame the OL, can you pinpoint the position that's to blame and how you'd fix it? LT was shakier than usual last year when Adam Terry and Jared Gaither was in there, but they weren't too bad, and Ogden was still better than average. Jason Brown has been spectacular at LG. C, I will give you, I think we need to groom a good C to get in there. RG, we've got Grubbs who should be great this year. RT, started out as Terry, then Yanda took over, and despite the fact he'd never played there before, Yanda seemed to hold his own towards the end of the year.

My point is at #8, you're really looking at only OTs. The G and C in the draft are really not even first round talent. Even then, at #8, most likely Long is gone...Otah and Clady are your best bets, but Clady tanked on his Wonderlic and Otah is probably a big reach. If a guy like Ryan is there at #8, I say unless someone is there who will give up the moon to get him, take him and look at OL talent in Rounds 2 or 3 (comp pick).

Ogden was only marginally better then Gaither at LT last season, which was below Terry's level at LT in my memory last year. He should have retired before last year, because he looked... pick one or two or three...(Old, Hurt, Tired, disinterested, half-assing it. Much like McNair.
I think that between possible rumblings of Brown flipping back inside, and Chester finallly coming into his own, I think the interior is pretty good, looking forward.
Yanda was a RT through the majority of his college career, playing LT as a senior, and G as a freshman. Many "experts" thought he had to be a guard. Apparently Ferent convinced the Ravens brass that he could play RT. It worked out farily well from my perspective.

Me, personally, i'm ok with going forward with the young personnel we have on the OL, opting instead to add either another RT or a G,C guy lin the mid rounds 3-5.

QB, DE and CB must be addressed before any other position. The particular order depends on what happens around us, but I like prospects for all positions to varying degrees, accross all three areas where we should be picking(and everywhere else we could trade to).

All of that said, I think of Ryan in a similar manner to Ngata a couple of years ago. If available, he is the obvious pick. IF we have to trade a pittance really to secure him, I'm ok with it, but I wouldn't bend over backwards as there are other directions to possibly go.

[RavenScallywag]

Ngata was also interesting in that up to the minute we picked him, the thought was either him or Brodrick Bunkley. Two incredible DTs but two very different styles. I'm quite happy we chose Ngata over Bunkley though.

What's interesting here is we have Ryan vs Brohm. Brohm has been listed as far down as 2nd round, but in the same breath, some people are saying he could be the better QB. I don't like mocks of us taking Brohm at 8, but if we moved down in the first round, I'd be ok with us taking him. That said, Ryan is the type of QB I'd take at 8 or above...

[purplepoe]

I don't think he was comparing Brady to Boller, he was simply pointing out that when under constant pressure, as Brady was in the Super Bowl, then he's not that great. I think his point was about the importance of pass protection.

As for me, I am (perhaps foolishly) optimistic that the pass protection will get better this season. I like Grubbs, I still think Terry can be good at LT, and I'm hoping that Chester can bulk up a little and live up to the potential that the FO saw in him.

I know he wasn't comparing. That would've been even more hilarious.

Even bringing up a 3 time Super Bowl winning QB in a post that is about Boller is ridiculous.

I'm sick of the excuse making. Our OL aint the best. That's no secret. But that doesn't excuse the piss poor play of Kyle Boller.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

I'm sick of the excuse making. Our OL aint the best. That's no secret. But that doesn't excuse the piss poor play of Kyle Boller.

The year, after year, after year, after year of piss poor play from Boller ....

[RavenFreek]

I would take Ryan if he was there,and then try to get a receiver in the second rd. if you could get pacman jones for a late rd. pick and an incentive laden contract and hope that he has learned something from his latest troubles then we might have something.But if not I would take a corner in the 1st and then a qb w/ my 2nd!

[Mista T]

I would take Ryan if he was there,and then try to get a receiver in the second rd. if you could get pacman jones for a late rd. pick and an incentive laden contract and hope that he has learned something from his latest troubles then we might have something.But if not I would take a corner in the 1st and then a qb w/ my 2nd!


QB & WR? Go back to the Marchibroda teams? A recipe for disaster. I'll stick with my preference for a CB and DE, maybe an OT. Or get all three if a decent trade down can be negotiated.

Pacman? Thanks, but no thanks. No more bad characters for this team. Bisciotti made that clear a couple years ago.

[RavenScallywag]

yeah, Pacman is on my top 5 of "DO NOT TOUCH" players...

I think if we have a plan to get a guy like Flacco, Brohm, or Henne in round 2, then I'm perfectly ok with taking a CB like McKelvin or Rodgers-Cromartie in the 1st.

[HoustonRaven]

Pacman? Thanks, but no thanks. No more bad characters for this team. Bisciotti made that clear a couple years ago.

:word

[psuasskicker]

I think if we have a plan to get a guy like Flacco, Brohm, or Henne in round 2, then I'm perfectly ok with taking a CB like McKelvin or Rodgers-Cromartie in the 1st.

Yeah but you never know if you can actually do that or not. Passing on Ryan cause you're banking on getting one of those three would be awful. I'm not gonna cry if we pass on Ryan, but I can guarantee that won't be the reason.

DRC is a reach at #10. No more workout warriors! This guy was at best a second round pick before he posted a 4.85 millisecond 40 time. Who freakin' cares how fast a guy can run in a straight line? If a CB is doing that, it means he's already been burned. McKelvin's got to be the pick at #8 if we're taking a CB. Maybe Talib if McKelvin's off the board, but if he is, there's someone better at another position.

- C -

[jonboy79]

QB & WR? Go back to the Marchibroda teams? A recipe for disaster. I'll stick with my preference for a CB and DE, maybe an OT. Or get all three if a decent trade down can be negotiated.


Aren't you avidly anti McNair too? Are you so scared of the defense get older that you will completely avoid the offensive side of the football, yet again? If Ryan is gone, by all means go DE or CB, but to not even consider a QB or WR until we have DEPTH help on defense seems kind of silly when we have a leagues worst crew of QB's, and Wideouts that aren't too much better. Don't forget that between DE and CB we have a total of 4 probowlers counting Suggs.

[UKRavenStockers]

Yeah but you never know if you can actually do that or not. Passing on Ryan cause you're banking on getting one of those three would be awful. I'm not gonna cry if we pass on Ryan, but I can guarantee that won't be the reason.

DRC is a reach at #10. No more workout warriors! This guy was at best a second round pick before he posted a 4.85 millisecond 40 time. Who freakin' cares how fast a guy can run in a straight line? If a CB is doing that, it means he's already been burned. McKelvin's got to be the pick at #8 if we're taking a CB. Maybe Talib if McKelvin's off the board, but if he is, there's someone better at another position.

- C -

You don't have to play the waiting game at #39 for one of Flacco, Brohm or Henne. We're high enough in round 2 to move up into the tailend of round 1 to secure the one we want if we are enamoured with one.

[psuasskicker]

Aren't you avidly anti McNair too? Are you so scared of the defense get older that you will completely avoid the offensive side of the football, yet again? If Ryan is gone, by all means go DE or CB, but to not even consider a QB or WR until we have DEPTH help on defense seems kind of silly when we have a leagues worst crew of QB's, and Wideouts that aren't too much better. Don't forget that between DE and CB we have a total of 4 probowlers counting Suggs.

Between DE and CB - four starters - three of them are old and missed significant time last season. This isn't for depth to draft at those positions...it's to draft replacements at critical positions for guys who will not be here in two, three, and four years.

QB is an important spot to fill, but Smith might be able to do the job. I'm not panicking there. But how much longer do you think Price and CMac and Rolle can play at a Probowl level? Rolle can't anymore, and both CMac and Price missed a ton of time due to injury last year. We have absolutely no one that could possibly step into their shoes in the future, and we saw that big time last season. Those positions are bigger needs than QB.

FWIW, we shouldn't be drafting for need anyway. Honest to God, if I'm Ozzie at #8 and the first seven picks are some variation of Long, Long, Ryan, McFadden, Gholston, and two other guys that leave either Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis on the board, and I can't find a partner who wants them enough that I can trade down and get another pick or two, I'm taking one of them. There are seven elite players in this draft...those are the seven, and if you've got a shot at one of them and no one will give up picks for one of them, you've absolutely GOT to take them, regardless of other needs.


You don't have to play the waiting game at #39 for one of Flacco, Brohm or Henne. We're high enough in round 2 to move up into the tailend of round 1 to secure the one we want if we are enamoured with one.

No way we should move up from R2. We don't have a R3 pick (Comp picks can't be traded) and we shouldn't be talking about moving up at any point in this draft because we've got WAY too many holes to fill to trade off picks to get one specific guy. In this year's draft, there's no one worth moving up for anyway...this one should be all about quantity and hope you find a guy in each round that can play a part.

- C -

[jonboy79]

Between DE and CB - four starters - three of them are old and missed significant time last season. This isn't for depth to draft at those positions...it's to draft replacements at critical positions for guys who will not be here in two, three, and four years.

QB is an important spot to fill, but Smith might be able to do the job. I'm not panicking there. But how much longer do you think Price and CMac and Rolle can play at a Probowl level? Rolle can't anymore, and both CMac and Price missed a ton of time due to injury last year. We have absolutely no one that could possibly step into their shoes in the future, and we saw that big time last season. Those positions are bigger needs than QB.

FWIW, we shouldn't be drafting for need anyway. Honest to God, if I'm Ozzie at #8 and the first seven picks are some variation of Long, Long, Ryan, McFadden, Gholston, and two other guys that leave either Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis on the board, and I can't find a partner who wants them enough that I can trade down and get another pick or two, I'm taking one of them. There are seven elite players in this draft...those are the seven, and if you've got a shot at one of them and no one will give up picks for one of them, you've absolutely GOT to take them, regardless of other needs.
- C -

I think that Cmac, Rolle, Pryce and SUggs will have infinitely or close to it, more great games in purple uniforms then McNair. I think that has another season or so, of playing at average NFL #2 corner status. I think CMac has the same span at his current elite level, and another couple at Rolle's curent place. Suggs could have another decade of prime, albeit for someone else. Pryce is probably somewhere in between Cmac and Rolle. He is still truly elite, but I'm nto expecting him to even really be playing for 4 more years. I would expect we get another season or so of elite, and another season or so of above average, then a retirement. There will probably be some injuries in there, and maybe even issues with Rolle's epilepsy. I would imagine however, that as a whole, we will get better then 50% pro Bowl level Games out of those 4 combined through the next 2 years(Assuming we extend Suggs). I would be surprised if we see a pro-bowl quality game from ANY QB on our roster in the next two years.

Beyond that, I think it is more likely that Martin, Pittman, Edgar Jones, and Antwan Barnes become solid starters then Troy.

I don't think you draft for need or value. I think you look at a list of names, and ask yourself who will help this team most in the upcoming DECADE. FWIW, I think Dorsey could play DE in a 3-4, and therefore I'd take him. But Honestly, I'd take Leodis McKelvin, Keith Rivers, Ryan Clady before I'd take Ellis.

[RavenScallywag]

Brohm could go mid 1st round to early 2nd...Flacco could go late 1st round to mid 2nd. Henne is squarely a 2nd rounder.

My thinking is most of the 7 teams above us in round 2 are not likely to pick a QB...assuming Atlanta picks Ryan (if they don't, I think we take him), Miami MIGHT pick one, but they just got Jon Beck 2nd round last year...the Rams aren't likely to go QB this early...Oakland wouldn't need a QB...Chiefs could go QB in Round 2, so that could be a concern...Jets and 49ers probably wouldn't go QB, I think they commit to Kellen Clemmens and Alex Smith, respectively. Yes, that's not considering trading up, and yes, I mentioned a few "maybes" in there, but my point is if ATL takes Ryan, we could probably move up a couple spots to take Flacco, or, if we're lucky, Brohm. If not, there's Henne, who I wouldn't take at #39, but maybe shortly after.

[jonboy79]

If not, there's Henne, who I wouldn't take at #39, but maybe shortly after.


I'd take Henne at #39, mostly because I think the other three will all be gone by MIA's pick in the 2nd... Yeah, I said it, 3 first round QB's. I think Brohm goes mid round to CHI, CAR, or one of a myriad of teams that could trade up into the teens. Additionally, I think that ATL, KC or the like may sneak past MIA in the late 20's for Flacco ahead of MIA and or TL's 2nd.

Henne is by a pretty wide margin in both directiosn the 4th best QB. Flacco is much more Boom/Bust type, but all after completely pale in comparison. Waiting for Ainge, Woodson, Johnson and the like isn't too fun.

[UKRavenStockers]

No way we should move up from R2. We don't have a R3 pick (Comp picks can't be traded) and we shouldn't be talking about moving up at any point in this draft because we've got WAY too many holes to fill to trade off picks to get one specific guy. In this year's draft, there's no one worth moving up for anyway...this one should be all about quantity and hope you find a guy in each round that can play a part.

- C -

Didn't say we should move up, I said we're in a position if we so desire, I agree that with the lack of a 3rd rounder this year, learning the lesson a few years back of the issues with not having a 1st rounder in a subsequent year that it wouldn't be the best idea in the world to move up.

[psuasskicker]

I think that Cmac, Rolle, Pryce and SUggs will have infinitely or close to it, more great games in purple uniforms then McNair. I think that has another season or so, of playing at average NFL #2 corner status. I think CMac has the same span at his current elite level, and another couple at Rolle's curent place. Suggs could have another decade of prime, albeit for someone else. Pryce is probably somewhere in between Cmac and Rolle. He is still truly elite, but I'm nto expecting him to even really be playing for 4 more years. I would expect we get another season or so of elite, and another season or so of above average, then a retirement. There will probably be some injuries in there, and maybe even issues with Rolle's epilepsy. I would imagine however, that as a whole, we will get better then 50% pro Bowl level Games out of those 4 combined through the next 2 years(Assuming we extend Suggs). I would be surprised if we see a pro-bowl quality game from ANY QB on our roster in the next two years.

Beyond that, I think it is more likely that Martin, Pittman, Edgar Jones, and Antwan Barnes become solid starters then Troy.

I don't think you draft for need or value. I think you look at a list of names, and ask yourself who will help this team most in the upcoming DECADE. FWIW, I think Dorsey could play DE in a 3-4, and therefore I'd take him. But Honestly, I'd take Leodis McKelvin, Keith Rivers, Ryan Clady before I'd take Ellis.

I really respect your opinions a lot jonboy, but I very strongly disagree with this.

First, you say between Rolle, McAllister, Suggs, and Pryce that we'll get 50% Pro Bowl level games from them over the next 2 years. That's 64 games. In the previous two seasons, these four started a total of 94 games. And if you take Suggs out of it, the other three started 63 games. Of the eight possible Pro Bowl slots they could take in that last two years, they filled two (CMac and Suggs in '07).

At the beginning of this season, Rolle will be 32, CMac 31, and Pryce will be 34. Suggs will be 26...he's headed into his prime. But in the NFL, "prime" only lasts till 28 or 29 unless you play a position that requires little running speed and little hitting...i.e. QB. Rolle has unquestionably lost a step or two, McAllister still plays at a high level but spent half of last year with a foot injury which could be a bad omen for things to come. Pryce didn't play most of the year. As an example, McNair has a strong year in '07 and terrible in '08 and you say he's finished. Pryce does basically the same thing and you say you think he'll give another two seasons of above avg or better play from him.

You're also being unreasonably harsh on the QB position, thinking that in 32 games not one will be a Pro Bowl level game. Boller alone had two that were Pro Bowl worthy last year (NYJ and NE). McNair had a few in '07. It's unrealistic to say we won't get anything out of the position over the next two years with a rookie that showed some promise last year, and a revamped coaching staff with one of the better offensive minds in the game vs. our previous staff which has notoriously been terrible at managing the position.

I completely disagree with your assessment of Martin, Pittman, Jones, and Barnes are more likely to become solid starters than Troy Smith. Martin and Pittman have shown nothing in their opportunities at the position. Barnes and Jones have shown potential in practice and preseason games. Barnes looked decent in limited duty, but they have a combined 13 total tackles. To say those two have shown more potential than Troy Smith is simply not true.

I know your draft strategy makes sense, but you're not following it if you say you'd take McKelvin or whoever over Ellis. You take the guy that's most likely to be the next star and can crush the competition for that decade, and there's no question that's Ellis over the other three you mentioned. Taking the other three over Ellis is drafting for need. We need CB or DE or OT more than we need DT. True, but Ellis is more likely to be a dominator than McKelvin, Harvey, or Clady, so you have to take that guy if you can't move out of the slot, and then you rebuild the team around him.

Just my $0.02...

- C -

[jonboy79]

Maybe I can help you see why.

First off, there is a big difference between the play last year of McNair and Pryce, sicne you call them, basically the same. When Pryce was on the field, our defense was DOMINANT. When he was not, it was beatable. It's really that simple. He is the best player on our defense, even at his advanced age. That's saying a lot. People all keep talking about AD in 06? Pryce was among the best players in the entire NFL omn either side of the ball in 06. The way that he completely annhialates his man one on one all game long is unheard of. He does it from the inside, the outside, rushing the passer, blowing up the ball carrier int he backfeild, etc.
Steve McNair played a pretty good version of ball management in 06, and was easily the worst QB in the NFL in 07. Boller and Even Smith looked better in their action.

And Finally, I think there is a lot of revisionist history in everyone's mind with Troy Smith. I ewmwmber seeing that he didn't play badly. He didn't embarrass himself. I don't remeber flashes of greatness. I really don't. I really only remember that immediate reaction from those looking for redemtption to their predictions. I remember most thinking he played, OK. His stats barely bare that.

Look around the NFL, how many team's secdond corners really performed better then Rolle in 06 on a day to day basis. And I really mean look around the NFL, and not watching Corners against US. Corners get beat constantly, all dya long on other teams. It's NFL in the present.

I think we have the best starting 11 on D inthe whole NFL, with Questionable depth. I think we have a QB situation, that if you ranked all 32, based on their entire depth charts at the position, I'd likely rank us dead last. Nope sorry, ATL is worse off. Yeah, I'd rather have BUF, OAK, MIA< KC, DET, CAR, even GB's QB positions better then ours.

As for the 5 prospects in question, I guess it has a lot do do with one's perception of Troy Smith. I will eat a lot of words if TS ever becomes a viable starter, put it that way. I'd be surprised if none of those 4 become contributors. Pittman and Martin both looked better and better as their PT added on, Barnes showed burst and desire to get to the QB if NOTHING else. JOnes showed a bit of everything in very little action. Coincidentally I am tempered with Barnes becuase he flashed that passrushing ability, yet in every statistical manner, he played very poor against the run.

Finally, as for draft prospects...
The Ravens live and die off running the ball and stopping the run. The Raven's best and deepest position on the roster is DT. Ellis is a one trick pony inside passrusher that can't play the run. He is Rod Coleman, not Warren Sapp. He is a poor fit schemattically, and that is once you get past his workout warrior tag. McKelvin has been compared to DeAngelo Hall. HE is the best man corner in the draft, and also happens to be a fine Punt Returner. He is the best prospect to fill in for CMac in the whole draft. With Bart and Ray nearing the end of their contract, I could see going for BT DAE the best LB in the draft in Rivers. I just don't buy in to Sedrick Ellis' hype, and think he's a POOR, POOR fit here in Baltimore.

[psuasskicker]

Maybe I can help you see why.

First off, there is a big difference between the play last year of McNair and Pryce, sicne you call them, basically the same. When Pryce was on the field, our defense was DOMINANT. When he was not, it was beatable. It's really that simple. He is the best player on our defense, even at his advanced age. That's saying a lot. People all keep talking about AD in 06? Pryce was among the best players in the entire NFL omn either side of the ball in 06. The way that he completely annhialates his man one on one all game long is unheard of. He does it from the inside, the outside, rushing the passer, blowing up the ball carrier int he backfeild, etc.
Steve McNair played a pretty good version of ball management in 06, and was easily the worst QB in the NFL in 07. Boller and Even Smith looked better in their action.

No question McNair was horrible last year. I'm not sure where you're getting how dominant our D was with Pryce. He broke his hand pretty early in week 2 if I remember, and Cinci hung 27 on us week 1. After that, he didn't really play a whole lot.

Pryce did have a terrific '06 season. He probably should have gone to the Pro Bowl. You're overstating things though. He wasn't close to the most dominant player on either side of the ball in '06. I would go so far as to say he wasn't the most dominant Raven in '06. And prior to '06 he looked very average. There were many people questioning how good the acquisition was for the Ravens when we made it.

The point I was making comparing McNair and Pryce is that it's not fair to say one is finished and that the other will continue playing at an elite and/or above average level given their histories. I don't think McNair will ever be elite again...I'd really like to see him cut in July, particularly if we draft a QB in R1 or R2. But to say Pryce at age 34 will simply bounce back after injuries that sidelined him basically all of last season, and that he will be able to give us a couple more years of terrific play and therefore we have no real needs at the position is simply wishful thinking. There's no guarantee he can play close to much less at his '06 level, there's certainly a high risk a guy in his mid-30s gets injured, and there's a very real possibility he won't be a Raven in '09. Add to that the risk that Suggs either isn't a Raven in '09 himself, or that he fully transitions to OLB, and it's more accurate saying that we have a gaping hole at the position that must be filled immediately.


And Finally, I think there is a lot of revisionist history in everyone's mind with Troy Smith. I ewmwmber seeing that he didn't play badly. He didn't embarrass himself. I don't remeber flashes of greatness. I really don't. I really only remember that immediate reaction from those looking for redemtption to their predictions. I remember most thinking he played, OK. His stats barely bare that.

Look around the NFL, how many team's secdond corners really performed better then Rolle in 06 on a day to day basis. And I really mean look around the NFL, and not watching Corners against US. Corners get beat constantly, all dya long on other teams. It's NFL in the present.

I think we have the best starting 11 on D inthe whole NFL, with Questionable depth. I think we have a QB situation, that if you ranked all 32, based on their entire depth charts at the position, I'd likely rank us dead last. Nope sorry, ATL is worse off. Yeah, I'd rather have BUF, OAK, MIA< KC, DET, CAR, even GB's QB positions better then ours.

I think the problem is that the guy's a rookie and got a game and a series to show what he can do. Given those circumstances, he played pretty well. He didn't look like a deer in the headlights, which only takes you one snap to see with Boller. He didn't look like he was allergic to the ball, which McNair looked to be last year. But more importantly, his throws were crisp and secure, and he showed the ability to feel the rush and get out of the way. He showed the beginnings of what makes a solid quarterback in this league.

Contrast this with say Oakland, who you say you'd rather have for the QB position. Their backups are clearly horrible. Russel was the #1 pick in the draft, and that certainly counts for something. He was a rookie last year, and thrown into the mix, and there's certainly a chance he gets better. But the guy was flat out awful. He held out. Once he finally signed, he reported overweight and out of shape. He went out and played without discipline and looked like he had no clue what was going on. And word I've been hearing is that he hasn't been breaking his back to get himself into shape and turn himself around (the risk of handing a rookie $30MM). Would I trade my QB situation with Oakland's right now? Not a chance with all that guaranteed money tied up to a guy that's shown complete suckitude.

There's no way our QB siutation is the worst in the league. Is it one of the worst? No question. But Atlanta, Miami, Kansas City...the three of them all have it worse than we do cause they don't have a legit backup with experience or a young player that's shown any lick of potential. Oakland, Minnesota, Chicago, and San Fransisco are all in just as bad shape at the position as we are.

CB duos are too tough to compare. CMac and Rolle are in their 30s. They're not getting younger, they're getting older. Rolle has already lost a step. CMac might after a major foot injury. The point isn't whether or not we've got the best duo now, it's what we've got for the future. You want to bank on these guys two or three years from now playing at the same level they did in '06? In '07 they didn't play a whole lot, so who knows what's there. And you can't just draft a CB and insert him as a starter and expect him to play well...that position's got a learning curve at least as large as WR. As with Pryce, Rolle very well may not be a Raven in '09. CMac should be, but he's too much of a question mark after his injury to say he'll still play elite level ball at age 32 in '09. How can you think that after seeing the drop-off in Rolle's play from age 29 to 31 from '05 to '07? Rolle was a dominant CB coming out of his prime. It should be expected that CMac will suffer the same decline over the next year or two. And if that happens, yes, he can still be a reliable and solid contributor. But we have no one to play a great #1 CB. And worse than that, if either (or God forbid both) miss signifiicant time like they did last year, we're completely screwed cause we've got NO ONE that can step up to start and play well.

- C -

[jonboy79]

I didn't say that DE's not a need, just not a more important one then QB, not by a long stretch.
Pryce was absolutely the Raven MVP in 06, much like Ngata was in 07. A healthy Pryce and schooled up Ngata on the same line is SCARY. I really don't tthink that I overstated Pryce's value in 06. he literally should have gotten the DPOY.

Above all of that, I think a QB matters more then either a pair of ends or a piar of corners, or even one of each.

We have 2 more then capable players that can step on the field in each position, we really don't have a player capable of NFL level play at the QB position. I agree we have no depth to count on at either DE or CB, but we have no depth 1-3 at QB. TS is the only one I really even want on the team, because I don't know how good he could become, wheras the other two have already shown their colors.

I was serious I would take Jamarcus and Noone over our Trio. Brody Croyle too. Jon Beck... maybe not Minnisota, I keep forgettign about them.

[psuasskicker]

We have 2 more then capable players that can step on the field in each position, we really don't have a player capable of NFL level play at the QB position.

This seems to be the crux of the disagreement we've got and I doubt either of us will be able to change the other's mind from the sound of it. So with that, we can just agree to disagree!

Amazing what can be done with civil discussion, no? So much more pleasent than petty sniping! :)


I was serious I would take Jamarcus and Noone over our Trio.

FWIW, I would agree with this if money wasn't an issue. But Russell signed with $30 mil in guaranteed money. The Raiders are locked to this guy for nothing less than four years unless they want to take a GIANT cap hit. And seriously, the guy looked like bust-city last year. I mean like Ryan Leaf potential.

He could always turn it around...the guy certainly has the potential to be a good QB. But so did Leaf. They gave the guy enough money that he can live fat without having to think about working another day the rest of his life. He plays for one of the worst franchises in the game. What's his incentive?

With the money they've got tied up in Russell, plus how bad Russell looked, I wouldn't straight swap our position with theirs.

- C -

[AZRAVEN]

Based on the overall condition of the Raiders I don't think it's even possible to accurately evaluate Russell's potential for anything. That franchise is such a joke.

[psuasskicker]

Of course but you have to take that in stride with everything. We had one of the worst QB development staffs in the NFL over the last decade. How do we know whether or not Smith or maybe even Boller have actual NFL grade potential?

Based on what you saw last year, would you really take Russell with his $30 mil guaranteed money handcuff over Troy Smith who's in vet min territory?

- C -

[AZRAVEN]

Well, maybe we should just wait to see if the new genius coaching staff can turn Boller/Smith into all-pro's.

[jonboy79]

This seems to be the crux of the disagreement we've got and I doubt either of us will be able to change the other's mind from the sound of it. So with that, we can just agree to disagree!

Amazing what can be done with civil discussion, no? So much more pleasent than petty sniping! :)



FWIW, I would agree with this if money wasn't an issue. But Russell signed with $30 mil in guaranteed money. The Raiders are locked to this guy for nothing less than four years unless they want to take a GIANT cap hit. And seriously, the guy looked like bust-city last year. I mean like Ryan Leaf potential.

He could always turn it around...the guy certainly has the potential to be a good QB. But so did Leaf. They gave the guy enough money that he can live fat without having to think about working another day the rest of his life. He plays for one of the worst franchises in the game. What's his incentive?

With the money they've got tied up in Russell, plus how bad Russell looked, I wouldn't straight swap our position with theirs.

- C -

Yeah, I agree that's the crossroad, and understand that can happen and mean no ill will obviously... The good part is that I'm not sure who would cheer louder if Troy Smith was lighting it up with a top 4-5 prospect at CB, DE and QB... when all is said and done we will both cheer for who's here and who's playing, but it's the offseason and this type of discussion is all ther eis.

Money does certainly cast a shadow on Russell, but I wasn't expecting Marino out of the gates. I think he has an extraordinarily high ceiling, but certainly can see how he could never put it together. I definately think the first two options this year are more secure choices, with albeit fairly significantly lower ceilings. JR is just 115% of a QB.

[OriAl]

We don't need a QB, we need an offensive line that actually does its job and protects the QB consistently, whoever he is.

[jonboy79]

We don't need a QB, we need an offensive line that actually does its job and protects the QB consistently, whoever he is.

Great. In what round we will have to pick an Offensive Line so that he can come in and block the NYG 4 man rush from day 1... oh yeah it's 5 guys plus depth that grow together to get good... oh ok that's what i thought. It's a good thing Ozzie Newsome is the one running this team cause guess what. 3 years ago, he traded up into the second round for JO's successor. And that smae year, he also drafted a 4 year starting C out of UNC. The next year he drafted a REALLY athletic C project out of OK. To top it off, last year he went and outdid himself. In the first round, he drafted one of hte better draft prospects of recent memory. Later on, he traded back up into day one for a well schooled, tough nosed, bring your lunchpail G/TA tweener that's too "short" to Play RT in the NFL, thoughJason Taylor made a case. A coupoel months later he also snagged some "high ceiling" local lazy kid that needs a fire under his but.

So who, knows, maybe we already have a great line, we just don't know it.

BUt since they don't do their jobs, who sucks and needs to be replaced, and in what round will his day 1 improvement come?

[HoustonRaven]

It's not an either / or proposition ...

we need both depth at QB AND a better OL.

[ravenwoman]

Most experts, like Aaron Wilson think that if Matt Ryan is available at 8, he will be a Raven. I also really like Joe Flacco, but his popularity is moving up and he probably won't be there at 38. The Ravens may be in a situation that if they don't move back and don't take a QB at 8, and don't move up in the second round, then all of the high ranking QBs would be taken. It is a delicate situation and nobody will really know what the Ravens will do until the first 7 picks pan out.

[duffybr]

Atlanta at 32 will likely snag one of the top 3-4 QB's