View Full Version : How are the Redskins NOT in Cap Jail?
RavenScallywag
02-29-2008, 11:59 AM
I posted this in the Mike Flynn thread, but I'll bring it out to here...
So just two weeks back, the Redskins were 12 million OVER the cap for this upcoming year.
Moves since then:
1. Cut Brandon Lloyd
2. Void Mark Brunell's contract
3. Void Rock Cartwright's deal
Apparently, that erased 12 mil+ from the cap. HOW?! You mean to tell me these three guys were making 12 mil in salary MORE than their remaining bonuses? Then, they still have cap room somehow to sign Todd Collins to a 3 year $9 mil deal?
Someone, please, can you explain this? We were 5 mil under the cap, restructured Heap and Ogden's deals to gain enough to franchise Suggs at 8 mil and give Brown a 2nd round tender of 1.47 mil. The we cut Flynn and Anderson to gain 3.3 mil in savings, which gives us 3.3 mil to use in FA and draft picks. See, our cuts and signings balance out...The Redskin cuts seem to make no friggin sense, except that they don't have any more room to do anything without restructuring deals.
It's a big mystery to me as well. It seems every year they are very near the cap or leaps and bounds over it. They probably get away with it because they are a big market team. Now adays the NFL lets their big market teams get away with murder... i.e. New England.
HoustonRaven
02-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Why is this hard to understand? Snyder is known for huge contracts so I dont think it's a huge shock that when people are let go, they have room again.
Lloyd had a huge contract and everyone is forgetting about Sean Talyor. Taylor's contract is gone since his death and he had a huge cap number.
I get upset when I see another team like the Redskins buy and release who ever they want at will and never have to deal with a full blown dismantling of a team like we did. To this day it still bothers me that we couldnt keep all of those players from the superbowl.
RavenScallywag
02-29-2008, 12:56 PM
I still say Snyder must be using under the table money on some of these guys...you get a guy like Arrington who gave up millions so he'd be released to sign somewhere else. WTF?
Losac
02-29-2008, 01:06 PM
The Skins continue to suck even with their free agent spending sprees and iffy cap management. Let them keep doing what they're doing. It's obviously working well for them!
HoustonRaven
02-29-2008, 01:13 PM
The Skins continue to suck even with their free agent spending sprees and iffy cap management. Let them keep doing what they're doing. It's obviously working well for them!
:word
I get upset when I see another team like the Redskins buy and release who ever they want at will and never have to deal with a full blown dismantling of a team like we did. To this day it still bothers me that we couldnt keep all of those players from the superbowl.
We could have if we wanted to be in perpetual cap trouble like the Dead$kin$. We enjoyed several nice cap years by going through that one year and still went 7-9.
awalt
02-29-2008, 05:05 PM
Well this (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008capfigures.htm)seems to be the most accurate ongoing cap list (they updated after the recent Ravens cuts), and they show the Skins 7.5 mil over. Plus they need a rookie cap etc., so that doesn't sound promising to me....
gusbus52
02-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Redskins also didn;t franchise someone for 8 mil. If we didn't franchise suggs and made the other moves we would have 10 million in cap room, they just got rid of enough contracts to get under. signing collins prob only has a 1 mil or 2 cap number for 08.
You also have those loophole incentives clauses.
ravenwoman
02-29-2008, 09:35 PM
The Redskins cheat. That's how they do it. Creative accounting. I wonder if anyone ever audits their books.
psuasskicker
02-29-2008, 09:48 PM
What happened with Sean Taylor's contract and how it impacted the cap?
- C -
highwater
03-01-2008, 09:33 AM
Redskins fans are pissed because it took this long for them to cut Brunnel -- that guy was being paid a lot of cash and didn't even play much. He was sucking up a lot of salary for nothing.
It's not a coincidence that they cut him after Gibbs retired.
HoustonRaven
03-01-2008, 10:17 AM
What happened with Sean Taylor's contract and how it impacted the cap?
- C -
His contract went away when he died.
RavenScallywag
03-01-2008, 10:37 AM
I would think when a player dies, they'd at least pay out his guaranteed money to his estate, for his child.
HoustonRaven
03-01-2008, 10:45 AM
The Junkies talked about this a few weeks back with Charlie Casserly. Depending on how the contract was worded, the remainder of players contracts can be paid out to the estate of a dead player. Snyder did say he would pay out the contract and pay for the funeral.
He also said this does not count against the cap. Since the team is not benefiting from the services of the player anymore, the spirit of the cap restrictions are not being met and therefor, the salary does not effect cap calculations.
UKRavenStockers
03-01-2008, 11:53 AM
So far as I know (had it explained to me by a cap guy after the event but can't remember the specifics) his contract counts against the cap in the same way that it would if he had retired.
So far as I know (had it explained to me by a cap guy after the event but can't remember the specifics) his contract counts against the cap in the same way that it would if he had retired.
That is probably in regard to the bonus application. But in terms of the rest of the salary that Snyder is honoring, that shouldn't because it is no longer going to a player, but to his family.
So they take the bonus hit as if he retired but the honoring of the rest of the contract is not held against the cap since it really is outside a player contract and more of a charitable donation.
UKRavenStockers
03-01-2008, 01:13 PM
That is probably in regard to the bonus application. But in terms of the rest of the salary that Snyder is honoring, that shouldn't because it is no longer going to a player, but to his family.
So they take the bonus hit as if he retired but the honoring of the rest of the contract is not held against the cap since it really is outside a player contract and more of a charitable donation.
Yep that makes sense, good call.
psuasskicker
03-01-2008, 06:36 PM
I figured it'd be like he was retired, but I'd guess the bonus proration at this point is less than salary, and so he's actually a savings for them? I can't find any salary info on nflpa anymore though, so no idea. Anyone have a link to where nflpa keeps their salary info?
- C -
highwater
03-01-2008, 09:52 PM
I don't recall the guy's name or the details, but a few years ago, a Saints player died, and the league did not give the Saints a break at all with respect to the cap. Maybe they've changed the rules since then, but at the time, they counted the guy's salary against the Saints even though the guy DIED!
Does anyone remember this?
jonboy79
03-02-2008, 09:55 AM
Different teams do different thingz to manage the cap. The redskins throw money at FA'a, btu don't draft well or deep, but they also don't overpay their guys with contracts they actually receive. The Ravens consistently do, mostly by hanging on to guys too long.
Case in point:
• FB Justin Green (tendered at $927,000 with 5th-round pick as compensation) is an average backup.
• LS Matt Katula (tendered at $927,000 with no compensation) is a solid special teams player.
Nearly a million a year for these guys? DVD last year? I'd rather have two UDFA's and another $1.2m in cap space. Teams that splurge, splurge on a handful or a dozen contracts... Teams that don't make a big splash in FA, tend to have a LOT of bigger contracts, and very few TINY ones.
AZRAVEN
03-02-2008, 10:46 AM
I tend to agree with what you're saying Jonboy. I also think we hurt ourselves by waiting to do contracts until the "market establishes itself". How many times have we ended up overpaying while bidding against ourselves for one of our players when we could have been more proactive and set the parameters earlier - CMac comes to mind but I think there have been others. I honestly don't think we manage the cap all that well, granted we haven't had to have major purges recently but we are constantly right up against the cap and struggle to be able to make some changes that would help the team through FA. We definitely have to much trouble saying "goodbye" to players.
RavenScallywag
03-02-2008, 11:01 AM
jonboy, I'm pretty sure we non-tendered Justin Green...Ozzie said something right before the tender deadline about us tendering two RFAs...Jason Brown was one, and Matt Katula's agent confirmed Katula was tendered at 927k.
purplepoe
03-02-2008, 11:09 AM
I tend to agree with what you're saying Jonboy. I also think we hurt ourselves by waiting to do contracts until the "market establishes itself". How many times have we ended up overpaying while bidding against ourselves for one of our players when we could have been more proactive and set the parameters earlier - CMac comes to mind but I think there have been others. I honestly don't think we manage the cap all that well, granted we haven't had to have major purges recently but we are constantly right up against the cap and struggle to be able to make some changes that would help the team through FA. We definitely have to much trouble saying "goodbye" to players.
Cmac, Reed, Heap, Ogden, Ray and soon to be Suggs.
This whole "waiting for the market to establish itself" means one thing. We end up paying more.
Look at what Justin Smith got from the 9ers. He's 3 years older than Suggs. He has 43.5 sacks in 7 years compared to 45 in 5 for Suggs. Suggs is a better all around player as well.
What do you think he and his agent think when they see Smith get a 6 year, $45 million deal with $20 million guaranteed?
PP
jonboy79
03-02-2008, 11:55 AM
jonboy, I'm pretty sure we non-tendered Justin Green...Ozzie said something right before the tender deadline about us tendering two RFAs...Jason Brown was one, and Matt Katula's agent confirmed Katula was tendered at 927k.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=sportsxchange-teamreports-2008-nfl-bal&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report
Shame on me for not listing my source in an obvious copy-paste... doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong... jsut what one source says.
jonboy79
03-02-2008, 12:02 PM
Cmac, Reed, Heap, Ogden, Ray and soon to be Suggs.
This whole "waiting for the market to establish itself" means one thing. We end up paying more.
Look at what Justin Smith got from the 9ers. He's 3 years older than Suggs. He has 43.5 sacks in 7 years compared to 45 in 5 for Suggs. Suggs is a better all around player as well.
What do you think he and his agent think when they see Smith get a 6 year, $45 million deal with $20 million guaranteed?
PP
I agree with the premise, but Justin Smith is pretty much in line... Below Charles Grant, and Freeney's deals, whom I expect to be the two bookends for Suggs contract.
Grant got 7 years, $63m, with $20 in guarantee, while Freeney received 6 years and $72m with $30 guaranteed.
SO I "knew" Suggs would cost AT LEAST $9 or $10 per year average with more then $20m in bonus money. I think we are looking at a multi-tiered, 7 year $70m with $25 guaranteed, and VERY low cap numbers for 08 and 09.