Welcome fans of the New Cleveland Browns

[Greg]

I'll say it, HC candidates passing on our job, a last place team, discord in the locker room, team out of control, owner reacting to gut feelings instead of logic, GM not aware of what the owner is doing, etc.

Friends, welcome to Shitville, population us.

<sarcasm>Good thing we fired that HC with the winning record!</sarcasm>

[HoustonRaven]

my God .... switch to decaf, Greg.

Didnt your coveted Billick take a day to decide too?

[Purpleguy]

I couldn't agree more. Thank God the GM is going to be taking in the Shriner game practice as opposed to helping sort this mess out?

[RavenTD]

I'll say it, HC candidates passing on our job, a last place team, discord in the locker room, team out of control, owner reacting to gut feelings instead of logic, GM not aware of what the owner is doing, etc.

Friends, welcome to Shitville, population us.

<sarcasm>Good thing we fired that HC with the winning record!</sarcasm>

Wouldn't it be ironic then,if we ended up with Marty Schottenheimer.
:bag:

[Purpleguy]

my God .... switch to decaf, Greg.

Didnt your coveted Billick take a day to decide too?


Actually I believe Billick told Cleveland to fuck off to take our job.

[Greg]

Didnt your coveted Billick take a day to decide too?
No, he told Policy to shove his take it or leave it offer and said I am going to visit with Modell. He signed the contract before his ass warmed the seat.

I'm sorry, but this is a clusterfuck. Something is wrong with this team we don't know about. Word must be out around the NFL that this is NOT a place one wants to work. Otherwise people would be begging to come here and that doesn't appear to be the case.

[The Fanatic]

Wouldn't it be ironic then,if we ended up with Marty Schottenheimer.
:bag:

I personally think that's what we need.

We got a little mess on our hands here, and his old school way of doing things might just be what the doctor ordered.


IIRC, I read an article in the fish wrap last week that said that Ozzie wanted Marty.

To me, if Ozzie is the GM in charge of the "Football Operations" side of this, then he should get who He wants whether it's the right choice or not.

Not sure I'd classify us as the new Browns just yet, but the entire way this whole ordeal has gone down reaks of shit!!

[HoustonRaven]

I'm sorry, but this is a clusterfuck. Something is wrong with this team we don't know about. Word must be out around the NFL that this is NOT a place one wants to work. Otherwise people would be begging to come here and that doesn't appear to be the case.

How is this different from any other team's search? You dont know anything as to whats going on, yet you poo poo anything and everything that's been happening since BB was fired. Biased much?

People ARE begging to come here but in the end this IS A BUSINESS and (shocker) Garrett is treating this as a business decision. How DARE HE?!?!?!

And what "word around the NFL" are you speaking off? All the talking heads consider Bisciotti and this front office as top knotch.

[FellsPointRaven]

We have a few more years of this shit to go through before we can be considered in the same league of fuck-up that defined Cleveland for so long.

I'm not sure he rejected the offer based on the organization, team or facilities. He sounds like a greedy little bastard whose primary motivation is money. Maybe we're better off without him.

I'm torn on Marty. I think he'd give us a better chance of more immediate success, though I like the idea of having a younger guy for longer-term stability. Provided it's the RIGHT younger guy.

[Greg]

People ARE begging to come here but in the end this IS A BUSINESS and (shocker) Garrett is treating this as a business decision. How DARE HE?!?!?!
Really, who is begging to come here?

Look, it is one thing we didn't hire the guy, it is a whole nother issue that we wanted him and he passed. That leaves a stink floating around the league.

As for the business decision, do you think Bisciotti, who apparently was the guy frothing at the mouth for Garrett, left money on the table? You can be assured he went full balls after the guy.

This isn't a business decision, it is a "Where do I want to work" decision and he just said "No thanks."

That doesn't bode well for the Ravens.

And frankly, if the guy is that wishy-washy we should pass. If he calls tomorrow to take the deal I would hang up on him. Did you come here looking for a job or window shopping like some chick on a nice spring day on 5th avenue?

[RavenTD]

Not sure I'd classify us as the new Browns just yet, but the entire way this whole ordeal has gone down reaks of shit!!

Reaks of shit and the old Browns,pretty much goes hand in smelly hand.

Martyball would be a stabilizing figure.And would shake the players up with his attention to detail.But like an old vet QB,he isn't the long term answer.
I want a young coach who can grow with the rebuilt of a new Raven team,
with a new direction and atmosphere.

We took this plundge getting rid of Billick.So we had better go in a new dynamic direction.

[HoustonRaven]

He sounds like a greedy little bastard whose primary motivation is money.

Of course its about money! That's a bad thing?

Seems like you're applying fan logic to a business decision. We're already emotionally invested in this team, Garrett is not. You think he sat around Dallas all last year and this season thinking "boy, I cant wait for that Baltimore job to open up".

With any coach, the money comes first then the emotional attachment to the city comes later.

[Greg]

We have a few more years of this shit to go through before we can be considered in the same league of fuck-up that defined Cleveland for so long.
I don't know, we were 1-5 in the division and finished firmly in last place 5 full games behind the Clowns. We have the Clown offensive coordinator passing on JUST INTERVIEWING HERE to stay there as an OC. Now we have Garrett passing.

Something is wrong here.

Maybe I am Angelos paranoid but this fish stinks enough for me already, I don't need a few seasons of this nonsense to realize it.

[camdenyard]

And frankly, if the guy is that wishy-washy we should pass

That may be the most sense you've spoken in this thread.

[Greg]

Of course its about money! That's a bad thing?
Oh, that makes it all better, you were apparently talking with Garrett and know why he passed.

If it was about money and Bisciotti really wanted him as is reported he could have zipped this right up. Is the guy asking for Spurrier-suckering-Snyder money? If so, he is just playing around. If he was at all reasonable this deal gets done and if he had a desire to be here he would have been reasonable.

[Purpleguy]

He would have never left if he had any intention of taking the gig. These offers don't stay on the table indefinitely. He spent all day and last night here and is leaving to "continue the process" as he put it. He obviously wasn't impressed.

He should have been told that the offer would be withdrawn if he left, but we've already given him a window of a few days by announcing that we are suspending interviews until the wizard gets back.

[FellsPointRaven]

Of course its about money! That's a bad thing?


It's a bad thing if it's the over-riding factor that trumps personal ambition or professional challenges.

[HoustonRaven]

Really, who is begging to come here?

Nobody actually "begs", not anywhere in sports does that happen. It tips the hand of the person wanting to come here and allows the Ravens to get them on the cheap.


Look, it is one thing we didn't hire the guy, it is a whole nother issue that we wanted him and he passed. That leaves a stink floating around the league.

As for the business decision, do you think Bisciotti, who apparently was the guy frothing at the mouth for Garrett, left money on the table? You can be assured he went full balls after the guy.

This isn't a business decision, it is a "Where do I want to work" decision and he just said "No thanks."

That doesn't bode well for the Ravens.

And frankly, if the guy is that wishy-washy we should pass. If he calls tomorrow to take the deal I would hang up on him. Did you come here looking for a job or window shopping like some chick on a nice spring day on 5th avenue?

Look, I agree with you that once he walks out, that more than likely means he wont be coming here at all. And if he used us, then fuck him, his whore wife too. All Im saying is lets keep calling it what it is ... for now.

BTW, Peter Schmuck was just on WBAL and he doesnt think we will see Garrett again.

[ladyraven127]

Thanks Greg . . . . now I have a little song floating around in my head. Remember the Raiders game . . . . . are you Cleveland in Disguise?

Someone help me . . . . I can't stop :insane:

[RavenTD]

Thanks Greg . . . . now I have a little song floating around in my head. Remember the Raiders game . . . . . are you Cleveland in Disguise?

Someone help me . . . . I can't stop :insane:

That means we have to throw celery at ourselves right?

[camdenyard]

New Cleveland Browns? What is this, some kind of wierd reverse Grover's Song? :thumbdown: :grbac:

Come back off the ledge, Greg. Things are being whipped up into a frothy mess. Just weeks ago you said that we were a few pieces away, and I agree.

What the fuck has this Garrett dude done to make anybody believe he's the second coming? Two years as a QB coach in Miami? What did he accomplish there? A year as an OC in Dallas, a team that already was primed to be an offensive force? Puh-leeze.

He may be an OK coach, and then again he may be Cam Cameron. Who knows?

As for today, we have no idea what his plans are, and we have no idea what Bisciotti offered him. He may listen to Atlanta and Jerry Jones' pitch to stay an OC and say "my future is in Baltimore" and sign on Friday. What's the rush? There are plenty of guys out there with Garrett's credentials, and some who are proven winners. As for me, give me Marty.

Breathe. In, out. In, out.

[Greg]

Nobody actually "begs", not anywhere in sports does that happen.
Really? Elvis Grbac, 2001, first day of FA he is on the steps at Owings Mills wanting our job.

Billick told Policy and Deep Pockets Lerner to screw themselves and hopped a plane to coach for Broke Modell and the cap strapped Baltimore Ravens.

Players settle for less to go to New England.

Sharpe told guys he knew this was a place to play.

Do you think we come off looking like that now?

This job isn't attractive for some reason.

AGAIN, WE HAD THE CLOWNS OC PASS ON INTERVIEWING TO STAY IN CLOWNTOWN. Now this.

Listen, these aren't even the hot chicks at the dance turning us down. These are those chicks you hit on before you really get drunk.

[HoustonRaven]

New Cleveland Browns? What is this, some kind of wierd reverse Grover's Song? :thumbdown: :grbac:

Come back off the ledge, Greg. Things are being whipped up into a frothy mess. Just weeks ago you said that we were a few pieces away, and I agree.

What the fuck has this Garrett dude done to make anybody believe he's the second coming? Two years as a QB coach in Miami? What did he accomplish there? A year as an OC in Dallas, a team that already was primed to be an offensive force? Puh-leeze.

He may be an OK coach, and then again he may be Cam Cameron. Who knows?

As for today, we have no idea what his plans are, and we have no idea what Bisciotti offered him. He may listen to Atlanta and Jerry Jones' pitch to stay an OC and say "my future is in Baltimore" and sign on Friday. What's the rush? There are plenty of guys out there with Garrett's credentials, and some who are proven winners. As for me, give me Marty.

Breathe. In, out. In, out.

Rack It! :iagree:

[camdenyard]

AGAIN, WE HAD THE CLOWNS OC PASS ON INTERVIEWING TO STAY IN CLOWNTOWN

I don't think he was ready to be a HC. Same for the wet-behind-the-ears dude in Nw England. Ray Lewis would have had him for lunch.

[Greg]

What the fuck has this Garrett dude done to make anybody believe he's the second coming?
That's my point.


As for me, give me Marty.
He might have been our best option, but this is akin to calling up that chick you know you can score with after striking out with new blood. We used to be the place people wanted to be, it doesn't seem that way now.

[camdenyard]

He might have been our best option, but this is akin to calling up that chick you know you can score with after striking out with new blood.

Never had that problem Greg!


We used to be the place people wanted to be, it doesn't seem that way now.

As my aunt was fond of saying, "Usedta's dead".

We will get a solid coach. Maybe this guy is Lawrence Phillips, and Jon Ogden is still out there.

[Purpleguy]

The problem now is that any other candidate knows they are 2nd choice. They also have to be a little curious as to why Garrett declined. The money he was offered will get out. We are now a desperate team, and other candidates, or at least their agents, will know this.

[highwater]

As my aunt was fond of saying, "Usedta's dead".

I hate it when you talk in code, camdenyard.

[highwater]

They also have to be a little curious as to why Garrett declined.

Do we know he declined? I thought he hadn't made a decision yet, which is an entirely different matter.

[Greg]

We will get a solid coach. Maybe this guy is Lawrence Phillips, and Jon Ogden is still out there.
Maybe so, but if this happened to the Clowns how would you view it? We would be laughing our asses off.

The Clown OC might not be ready for a HC gig, but don't you go interview just for the experience of interviewing? Apparently we don't even rate as a place to hone your interviewing skills.

[RavenTD]

The owner made a gut feeling. And did not have a true plan of action in place.

If he did Jason Garrett would be the Head Coach as I type and would not be heading to Atlanta.

Will the Ravens be forced to go for their 4th or 5th choice or worse?

Not very settling in my mind as a Raven fan.

[HoustonRaven]

The owner made a gut feeling. And did not have a true plan of action in place.

If he did Jason Garrett would be the Head Coach as I type and would not be heading to Atlanta.

Will the Ravens be forced to go for their 4th or 5th choice or worse?

Not very settling in my mind as a Raven fan.

John Clayton just reported Garrett cancelled his flight to Atlanta.

[tjameson52]

The latest word is he is still 60-40 going to take the job. He is certainly allowed to weigh his options in what is a huge personal decision for him... not sure why the fact that he received an offer needed to be leaked to the media though. If it was the Ravens organization that did the leaking, I really don't even know what to say...

[highwater]

The latest word is he is still 60-40 going to take the job.

They've been saying that since this morning, and it's just a guess by some ESPN guy. It's funny how we're attaching so much importance to this guess.

[Brandon]

If he is 60-40 on taking the job then I don't want him. That doesn't sound like someone who is really excited to be coming here.

[Sephy]

All we've heard about is how bright this guy is. He doesn't strike me as the type to make decisions on impulse. He's going to sit down, think about the Cowboys money and how ready he is to be a HC, and then make a call. This doesn't mean the job is unattractive in the slightest. If you had Moneybags Jones offering you a shitton of money to take a lesser responsibility job, wouldn't you at least consider it?

[HoustonRaven]

All we've heard about is how bright this guy is. He doesn't strike me as the type to make decisions on impulse. He's going to sit down, think about the Cowboys money and how ready he is to be a HC, and then make a call. This doesn't mean the job is unattractive in the slightest. If you had Moneybags Jones offering you a shitton of money to take a lesser responsibility job, wouldn't you at least consider it?

Exactly! I wish Greg was as level-headed as you! :)

[PD101]

Some of you people need to settle kick back and have a drink. Two days ago Jason Garrett probably thought he would be in the Super Bowl. You have to wonder if that doesn't play into someone wanting to be somewhat thoughtful when it comes to making a major decision. Hell maybe he wasn't even offered the job. But thinking we are the Cleveland Browns is just stupid. We are still the Ravens while the team stunk the defense still was outstanding and look around the league how many ex Raven people are at other in key positions.
I've been to Cleveland and we ain't Cleveland.

[camdenyard]

Maybe so, but if this happened to the Clowns how would you view it? We would be laughing our asses off.

The difference is, the Clowns have a history of ineptness. We don't.

When Gerald Ford stumbled for the 47th time, we laughed. It was funny.

If Reagan stumbled, we'd be worried because it would have been out of character.

Maybe Chud doesn't have being a HC as his lifetime ambition. Maybe He thought he wasn't ready. Maybe he was told by a little bird that Clowny was going to hire him.

Maybe he knows what we all know, that there are a lot of strong-willed vets on the Ravens and that certain players would kick sand in his face.

I'm not worried about this. Not yet.

[Khaine]

Of course its about money! That's a bad thing?

Seems like you're applying fan logic to a business decision. We're already emotionally invested in this team, Garrett is not. You think he sat around Dallas all last year and this season thinking "boy, I cant wait for that Baltimore job to open up".

With any coach, the money comes first then the emotional attachment to the city comes later.

:thumbup: Keep the above in mind... :iagree:

As well as some of ya mentioning how big a decision this is for him... Give him a little time to think about it - geeze...

[RavenTD]

As everybody is making gut feelings in this whole Raven HC scenario. Maybe
its time Garrett did likewise. He has to feel the vibe of the team,the city and the fans.And take the freaking job.

[HoustonRaven]

As everybody is making gut feelings in this whole Raven HC scenario. Maybe
its time Garrett did likewise. He has to feel the vibe of the team,the city and the fans.And take the freaking job.

Agreed. But lets just hope he has never watched "The Wire" or was taken on a tour of the west side. :laugh:

[POPSinPA]

Look people. Personally I don't care one way or the other but give this dude a break. He has a hell of a decision to make. Uproot my family and move to take a HC job with all it's headaches, or stay comfortably where I am and make the same money. Not a decision I would make quickly. And why get so upset if he decides against us? Not like he is the second coming or something. Just another unproven kid with a 90/10 chance of doing the job. Frankly we should have just kept BB and avoided all this hassle, but noooo ole SB has to have a change of mind at the last minute with no plan in place. How the hell this dude get so rich making stupid decisions like this anyway?

[RavenTD]

Agreed. But lets just hope he has never watched "The Wire" or was taken on a tour of the west side. :laugh:

When interviewing a new employee you never show him the state the water closets are in.:laugh:

[Greg]

The latest word is he is still 60-40 going to take the job. He is certainly allowed to weigh his options in what is a huge personal decision for him... not sure why the fact that he received an offer needed to be leaked to the media though. If it was the Ravens organization that did the leaking, I really don't even know what to say...
Why are we offering him the job if he isn't interested?

Shouldn't he have weighed this personal decision before applying for the job?

He shouldn't have even come here if he were 60-40, you just don't interview for jobs that you don't want.

He came here, took a look around, we pitched him and he passed.

[HoustonRaven]

My only wish going forward is a great head coach simply so I can shove it up Greg's negative, glass is half empty ass on a weekly basis. ;)

Greg, show me the link where he has already passed on the job please?

[ladyraven127]

Well now that wasn't very nice Houston. Greg's allowed to his opinion even if you think it's negative. I happen to agree with him but you don't see me saying things like that to people who disagree with me.

Tsk

[HoustonRaven]

Well now that wasn't very nice Houston. Greg's allowed to his opinion even if you think it's negative. I happen to agree with him but you don't see me saying things like that to people who disagree with me.

Tsk

Agreed. I made an edit and added the wink. I dont dislike Greg and enjoy his posts -- no matter how bass-akwards they may be! :D

[highwater]

Why are we offering him the job if he isn't interested?

Who said he wasn't interested, Greg? Would he have come out here with his wife for a second interview if he wasn't interested?

And ENOUGH with this "60-40" rumor that he'll take the job -- Ed Werder or someone he talked to could have just made that up. Do you really think that Garrett told a reporter that there was a 60 percent chance he'd take the job? It's just someone guessing.

Your dog would be disappointed with your hasty, pessimistic conclusions.

[Greg]

Greg, show me the link where he has already passed on the job please?
To continue along the same metaphorical line I have been using, we hit on the hot chick and she smiled, gave us a number and it turned out to be a Pizza Hut.

Did she pass on the date or just make a mistake in a digit by accident?

When he walked out of the building he passed.

If he wanted the job he stays. If he needed to mull it over he should have done that before getting on a plane and interviewing for the job. If he is this indecisive he isn't going to fare any better in a 2 minute drill than Billick.

[purplepoe]

Greg is pretty much dead on.

Remember how this was the top job out there?

How it was so desirable?

This has nothing to do with Garrett and his credentials and potential. He just happens to be the FO's #1 choice.

He came up for a 2nd interview with his wife. They stayed the whole day. You either take it or leave it. It's looking more and more like he left it. If he indeed cancelled his flight and takes the job tonight, then fine. But I find that highly unlikely.

And LMAO at Kevin Byrne spinning this interview as just the first of the 2nd round of interviews.

Anyone actually buying that?

If so, then why did they sit back last week and not bring Harbaugh in for his 2nd interview? His team wasn't in the playoffs so they could've brought him in anytime.

Face it. Garrett was the FO's #1.

It looks like he will spurn the offer.

It's about money? Puleeeze. Bisciotti just ate $15 million bucks to get rid of a guy. He's not gonna cheap out on his #1 choice.

That's fantasy land.

The reality is this job isn't as desirable as the FO and many fans seem to think it is.

Anyone else think Garrett took some time to look at what he's got to work with and realize he's got no QB, a suspect OL, below average WRs, and a TE who is turning into a walking injury?

PP

[ladyraven127]

Don't forget to add the mess of a locker room that we got going on here. I think that has as much to do with it as anything else. Who wants to come here and have to deal with an owner that lets his players call the shots?

[camdenyard]

To continue along the same metaphorical line I have been using, we hit on the hot chick and she smiled, gave us a number and it turned out to be a Pizza Hut..

:rolling:


He shouldn't have even come here if he were 60-40, you just don't interview for jobs that you don't want.

Didn't you just tell me an hour ago that even if he (Chud) wasn't interested he should have interviewed here for the experience?

Which is it, now?

Truth is we don't know what was offered. If I was made an offer, and it involved turning my life upside down, I don't sit in the interviewer's office and mull it over. I go back to the hotel, go to dinner, and talk it over with my wife (who was in town with him by the way), and weigh the pros and cons. The guy isn't living under a bridge with no options, for God's sake. And he's not flying to Atlanta.

Serenity now, Greg...

[Greg]

And LMAO at Kevin Byrne spinning this interview as just the first of the 2nd round of interviews.
That speaks volumes, our front office is now in a spin mode trying to put lipstick onto this pig.


Anyone else think Garrett took some time to look at what he's got to work with and realize he's got no QB, a suspect OL, below average WRs, and a TE who is turning into a walking injury?
That wouldn't bother me too much, if he passed because of the talent that would be one thing. I fear he passed because the organization as he perceived it isn't well run and is a potential train wreck. I don't think he wanted to be sitting in seat 1A when this baby went off the tracks.

[Greg]

Didn't you just tell me an hour ago that even if he (Chud) wasn't interested he should have interviewed here for the experience?

Which is it, now?
Is that your take, that Garrett was just here interviewing for experience?

If Chud came here just for the experience, had a great interview and we made an offer would he take it or walk? Yesterday I would have said "I highly doubt he walks." Today?

Chud wasn't our number one guy, he wasn't the guy who made Bisciotti's drawers steamy. Garrett was.

Guys who want to get ahead interview for jobs they don't think they can get for the experience of interviewing. But Chud passed because he didn't think a free trip here was worthwhile. Garrett got here, took a look around and passed (apparently). These are not good signs. These are the things that happen to the Browns, not the Ravens.

[camdenyard]

Don't forget to add the mess of a locker room that we got going on here

I'm sorry, but how exactly do we know this? Preston? He's the only one that's made a point of it.

Maybe the defensive players are pissed off, but the object of their disdain left the building Dec. 31.


I fear he passed because the organization as he perceived it isn't well run and is a potential train wreck.

All of a sudden the stable organization with one of the best GMs in football and an outstanding scouting org and an owner who isn't names Dan Snyder is a train wreck? Greg, I think you need a Xanax. :crazy:

[camdenyard]

Is that your take, that Garrett was just here interviewing for experience?

Of course not. But if Garrett wants to be a head coach, and he's been asked to come to town for a 2nd interview, he comes, they talk and he sees what is being offered. Only then can he make a decision. I'll say it again, we don't know yet what was offered.

Maybe Jerry Jones said yesterday "I'll match anything up to $4 million per year. Call me after your interview"...and maybe Bisciotti offered him $2.5 million, which ain't bad for a rookie coach. Maybe that $1.5 million is a lot of money to him. Maybe he needs to think about it for a few hours. Maybe...

WE DON'T KNOW YET.

[ladyraven127]

"I'm sorry, but how exactly do we know this? Preston? He's the only one that's made a point of it.

I don't even read Preston's crap . . . . I stopped that years ago.

Let's just say I've got a feeling . . . . . and some things I've heard through the grapevine.

[purplepoe]

"I'm sorry, but how exactly do we know this? Preston? He's the only one that's made a point of it.

I don't even read Preston's crap . . . . I stopped that years ago.

Let's just say I've got a feeling . . . . . and some things I've heard through the grapevine.

Anyone who thinks the locker room isn't an issue with this team is lying to themselves.

It has nothing to do with reading Preston.

PP

[camdenyard]

Well, then help me understand exactly what's wrong with the locker room.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Greg is pretty much dead on.

Remember how this was the top job out there?

How it was so desirable?

This has nothing to do with Garrett and his credentials and potential. He just happens to be the FO's #1 choice.

He came up for a 2nd interview with his wife. They stayed the whole day. You either take it or leave it. It's looking more and more like he left it. If he indeed cancelled his flight and takes the job tonight, then fine. But I find that highly unlikely.

And LMAO at Kevin Byrne spinning this interview as just the first of the 2nd round of interviews.

Anyone actually buying that?

If so, then why did they sit back last week and not bring Harbaugh in for his 2nd interview? His team wasn't in the playoffs so they could've brought him in anytime.

Face it. Garrett was the FO's #1.

It looks like he will spurn the offer.

It's about money? Puleeeze. Bisciotti just ate $15 million bucks to get rid of a guy. He's not gonna cheap out on his #1 choice.

That's fantasy land.

The reality is this job isn't as desirable as the FO and many fans seem to think it is.

Anyone else think Garrett took some time to look at what he's got to work with and realize he's got no QB, a suspect OL, below average WRs, and a TE who is turning into a walking injury?

PP

Once again, I agree with Poe, PG and Greg.

Maybe not to that extreme, but this is embarassing.

The spin Byne put out there is pretty funny.

My issue is at this point this...how do you not know that Garrett's heart is still so much in Dallas? Why are are you courting a guy who seems to secretly want to be in Dallas? I normally don't agree with Nester, but he had a good blog this evening about wanting a guy who...I don't know...actually WANTS to be in Baltimore and the head coach here...guys like Rex, Schwartz (who we stupidly aren't even interviewing IMHO) and maybe even Marty.

If I were Steve, after hinting at his attachment to Jones and the Cowboys ever since the first interview, when the decision to offer the job came, I would simply say this (and that's assuming they have some type of ballpark salary figure agreed to)..."So if I were to offer you this job, would you take it." If the answer is anything other than an immediate yes...and an enthusiastic yes, there is no point of further talking.

He had the entire second half of the season to contemplate whether you wanted to stay in Dallas or pursue a HC job since everyone knew he was going to be a hot name this offseason. At the point of getting the offer, he should have had his mind made up.

It sounds like they just found out from Ed Werder that Garrett still had feelings for staying with the Cowboys...and if that's the case, this was a complete clusterfuck...did they do any research? Where are the guys that run the background checks? What happens if we hire him and then 2 years from now, Jerry fires Wade and comes calling?

This entire process from the firing of Billick to this point has been just a complete mess.

[purplepoe]

Well, then help me understand exactly what's wrong with the locker room.

Ogden saying what coaches he won't play for.

Ray calling out the HC on a radio show.

I talked to 2 people in the media at the airport in Buffalo coming back.

They said half the team acts like they are 2 years old when they lose and a 1/4 act like pricks when even when they win.

You think all the whispers about clicks and huge egos are just made up?

Hell, you can look at what AD said.

You really think everything in that locker room is fine?

That's hard for me to believe.

PP

[purplepoe]

Once again, I agree with Poe, PG and Greg.

Maybe not to that extreme, but this is embarassing.

The spin Byne put out there is pretty funny.

My issue is at this point this...how do you not know that Garrett's heart is still so much in Dallas? Why are are you courting a guy who seems to secretly want to be in Dallas? I normally don't agree with Nester, but he had a good blog this evening about wanting a guy who...I don't know...actually WANTS to be in Baltimore and the head coach here...guys like Rex, Schwartz (who we stupidly aren't even interviewing IMHO) and maybe even Marty.

If I were Steve, after hinting at his attachment to Jones and the Cowboys ever since the first interview, when the decision to offer the job came, I would simply say this (and that's assuming they have some type of ballpark salary figure agreed to)..."So if I were to offer you this job, would you take it." If the answer is anything other than an immediate yes...and an enthusiastic yes, there is no point of further talking.

He had the entire second half of the season to contemplate whether you wanted to stay in Dallas or pursue a HC job since everyone knew he was going to be a hot name this offseason. At the point of getting the offer, he should have had his mind made up.

It sounds like they just found out from Ed Werder that Garrett still had feelings for staying with the Cowboys...and if that's the case, this was a complete clusterfuck...did they do any research? Where are the guys that run the background checks? What happens if we hire him and then 2 years from now, Jerry fires Wade and comes calling?

This entire process from the firing of Billick to this point has been just a complete mess.

Great post RIW.

If we knew about the situation in Dallas and how much Jones admired Garrett, then surely our FO knew.

I thought about exactly what you said.

So what if we hire Garrett and this time next year or 2010, the Cowboys fire Phillips. Everyone and their mother can figure out that Jerry Jones is gonna get right on a plane and land at BWI.

They couldn't feel him out enough to realize that he's a Dallas guy?

They had to go through this charade or having him up for a whole day? Having the media camp out for hours upon hours and constantly updating their every move. Hell, we practically knew what Garrett's wife had for lunch.

And then, for some ridiculous reason, Rex Ryan shows up while Garrett is still there. Who OK'd that? Two candidates for the job in the building at the same time?

You think they would've told Rex to hold off until tomorrow for whatever he was coming in for?

Im sick of eating what this FO is continually feeding us.

PP

[HoustonRaven]

Bunch of chicken-littles in here ...

Yes, we have egos in the locker room, but our locker room doesnt operate in a vacuum either. Things AND PLAYERS change! I know that might be news to some of you, but Im pretty sure you can take that one to the bank.

Bisciotti by all accounts wants to run a Rooney-esque team -- discipline, young and hungry coach thats with us for a long time and very little egos. Remember, he inherited a large chunk of this team from Art. Of course whomever we hire will have a tough road of it on the ego front. Nobody is denying that. But it's not the end of the world nor is it some cancer looming over us like a black cloud either.

Not one of you doom sayers have idea one about what happened today. ALL of us are speculating. But what makes some of you different is you're believing your own ill-informed speculations already.

Do we know Garrett said no? NO!
Do we know where exactly we stand as far as reputation in this league? NO (but every NFL analyst talks very highly of our front office)!

ALL of you chicken littles have one thing in common -- you didnt like either the manner or the fact Billick got fired.

It's beginning to look like if Jesus himself was hired, you wouldnt like the fact he would wear sandles to practice! :insane:

[BertJonesMyHero]

Gerg is the last guy I expected a post like this from.This is more Purpleguy's speed.lol :34853_lolpoint:

BILLICK WAS DONE y'all. It was time to move on. His sell by date had expired. Be patient, things will turn out just fine. I actually like the fact that Garrett is taking his time.

Wow- I can't believe I just typed that. I'm about the most cynical pessimistic bastage around here when it comes to our boys.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Bert, I will also add that I thought it was time for Billick to go as well.

And we all know you have felt it was time for Billick for a couple years now lol.

I just have a big problem with how this was handled from the jump.

It makes everything now look rushed and quite foolish if you ask me.

[MRAVEN]

Garrett wanted $25 mil over 5 years.
He backed it down to $3 mil a year,Stevie wouldn't budge from the $2.5 mil a year.

[HoustonRaven]

Garrett wanted $25 mil over 5 years.
He backed it down to $3 mil a year,Stevie wouldn't budge from the $2.5 mil a year.

Link? Source?

I find it very hard to believe they argued over $500k.

[Mr.Boh]

Garrett wanted $25 mil over 5 years.
He backed it down to $3 mil a year,Stevie wouldn't budge from the $2.5 mil a year.
Do you have a source on that? (not an attack btw, just wondering where this is coming from)

[Purpleguy]

Here's the thing, Biscuit, being super-guru, Forbes 500, mega businessman could have and should have handled today's proceedings differently. Instead of bringing Garrett back to Owings Mills, where the press was reporting on everything from the weather to what Garrett's wife was wearing, he could of had this interview in a private place, like his home. After he got a committment from Garrett then he could have shown off the crystal palace.

The fact is that the Biscuit and his partner in crime, Cass, have a very overinflated opinion of their organization. They never dreamed that it would shake down this way. They thought Garrett would be salivating at the prospect of coaching the world famous Baltimore Ravens. Their overconfidence in themselves and their team probably comes acrost loud and clear to potential candidates, and I'm sure it doesn't leave a pleasant taste in their mouths. Now it's backfired and these overconfident executives are starting to look like fools.

I don't care if you liked Billick or not, you can't tell me with a stright face that you are happy about the way things have gone down. I don't think any coach is going to be too concerned about locker room issues as long as they know that they will have the power to fix them. I don't think Steve is ready to give a HC that power. People bitch that Billick stuck with players too long. Did you ever think that he may have been following orders, and eating the shit for it? Suppose Garrett came in and said, "I'm a little leary about Ray Lewis undermining my direction and I will take swift action if he talks out about me", and Steve said, "well Ray is the face of this franchise. You should take in a Terps game with him sometime before you make any rash moves." Coaches don't like their hands tied. After the Biscuit berated Billick 2 years ago, I think these candidates may fear they are entering a bad situation.

[Purpleguy]

Garrett wanted $25 mil over 5 years.
He backed it down to $3 mil a year,Stevie wouldn't budge from the $2.5 mil a year.

If Garrett thought he was worth 5 mil a year, then that should have eliminated him immediately from the candidates. Jerry Jones wouldn't pay him that. Billick got that and he was a proven winner. This kid is an unknown. If he would have taken 3mil then the Biscuit should have bit.

[purplepoe]

Why do people keep bringing up Billick?

Like PG said, this fiasco has nothing to do with our former coach.

I don't feel sorry for Billick nor do I feel any allegiance to him.

Im looking at the WHOLE situation and drawing my opinion.

Chicken Little?

Give me a break.

PP

[Greg]

Bunch of chicken-littles in here ...
I'll respond to a lot of these posts using this quote.

Look, Billick probably was done, but look at how he was fired. First he is staying, the Bisciotti gets a bad piece of sea bass on Saturday and wakes up on Sunday and decides to fire the guy he had been promising was safe for weeks.

Then we get that press conference where Cass came across as lobbying hard for Billick to get canned for weeks and got his way. The owner seemed kind of out of it and admitted to asking the players about the coach, and quite possibly towel boys and landscapers. Ozzie seemed like he was just transported in from Mars and didn't know a football from a footbath.

Then we get this grand search going and we don't even think to interview some candidates who look good and want to be here and go after a Clown OC who passes without even sniffing the place. We get all of these initial interviews done, save our second for Garrett, put all of our eggs in that basket and have it blow up in our face and now we are standing there looking stupid.


My only wish going forward is a great head coach simply so I can shove it up Greg's negative, glass is half empty ass on a weekly basis.
I'll pass on the homo-erotica of that and just say I hope you can give me weekly "I told you sos." I don't WANT to feel the way I do, I am usually a very positive person. But I also have a pretty good intuition about people and reading their actions. Now I am not up close to this so I could be wrong, but this just stinks. This comes off as the Ravens organization being a complete screw up right now.


Do we know Garrett said no? NO!
He was made an offer and he exited the building. To me, you either sign or decline. You either want to be the HMFIC for the Ravens or you don't. He walked, he don't.

[Rayvens52]

there is no way he wanted 5 million a year, our FO along with everyone that pays attention to the NFL would have laughed at garret. i think this has more to do with him wanting to discuss this with his father. People this is a huge decision for him and for us. Who knows if an offer was even made, just speculation from espn and the others jumping on board, noone has come out and said we made an offer "league source" fuck that. This whole we are the new Browns is fucking stupid. Get a life people, one bad year does not mean the end of the world, remember 13-3 last year. In regards to browns OC turning us down, there were 4 teams that contacted him and he said no to all. Enough of this locker room shit also, this team acts just like every other NFL team. Really they have ego's who wouldn;t when you are getting millions a year to play a sport. You guys are the whiners not the players. Not that i would not be happy with Garrett but why all the hype, he has been a COACH for 3 years. Please people get your heads in the right place. This is not the end of the world, and until I hear from our FO that we made an offer I will not believe it, a league source is a worthless source, who is that the towel boy at OM. Come on people seriously get a grip.

[Greg]

Dude, the reporters outside were given the indication that this deal was close to being done and a signing was imminent. Cats like Aaron don't come within a CH of declaring him the new HC if they aren't being fed that line by guys like Byrne.

[btownraven]

This kid is an unknown. If he would have taken 3mil then the Biscuit should have bit.
But that's not the Ravens' philosophy. They simply do not believe in setting the market, which is exactly what paying a first-time head coach $3M would be doing.

The Ravens don't believe in setting the market when it comes to free agency. They don't believe in stretching for a player in the draft. This philosophy has worked for over a decade. Why change it now? To avoid being "embarrassed" or being called the "new Cleveland Browns" by Baltimore Greg?

The Ravens must feel that Jason Garrett is the #1 candidate out there, or else they wouldn't have had him in first. But they also must feel that he is not worth overpaying compared to their other options. There are many who believe John Harbaugh could be the better coach anyway.

I was very upset when I heard they let Garrett get away. But now that details are beginning to emerge I'm OK with it. If Arthur Blank is willing to set a new standard for unproven head coaches and Garrett wants to work in that mess, then let him. Or if wants to be a $3M/year OC looking over Wade Phillips' shoulder, then let him. We'll take Harbaugh.

The Ravens are betting Garrett sees that they have a lot more to offer besides money. If he doesn't, let him go. He won't fit in with the Ravens' philosophy anyway. A philosophy that has won a Super Bowl a hell of a lot more recently than either Atlanta or Dallas.

[duffybr]

In between the first interview and the second the pukes lost. Perhaps Jerry, knowing he is losing sparano and others to miami decided to up the ante to keep garrett. Jerry is probably taking serious doses of valium to keep from firing phillips.
Maybe Garrett, a first tim e head coach candidate is going to atlanta because he and his agent decided not to jump at the first offer. Maybe atlanta is offering 5 mil a year. Maybe Jones is offering 3 mil a year with garrett guaranteed as next hc. many think coach of the pukes is one of the top 2 or 3 coaching gigs in football.

so many are so quick to bash the ravens based on 1 bit of news. 1 rumor or 1 bad play on the field that it is unbelievable.

I dont see how many people on here are so sure of what happened when they have so little information. it is comical

[Rayvens52]

Dude, the reporters outside were given the indication that this deal was close to being done and a signing was imminent. Cats like Aaron don't come within a CH of declaring him the new HC if they aren't being fed that line by guys like Byrne.

The ravens website was being updated all day by Byrne, and not once did he or anyone attached to the Ravens say this. Really you are going to say the media doesn't F up. You think maybe that since he was the first to be called back they wouldn't jump the gun.

[Greg]

The Ravens don't believe in setting the market when it comes to free agency. They don't believe in stretching for a player in the draft. This philosophy has worked for over a decade. Why change it now? To avoid being "embarrassed" or being called the "new Cleveland Browns" by Baltimore Greg?
Maybe they shouldn't have had the media all in a fuss and fury about how this thing was done save a few dots on Is. When you have reporters getting this kind of information and then the guy walks that is indeed Cleveland Brownlike.

Look, if this were the Clowns or Stealers or Bungles I would laugh my ass off. This looks like a third rate organization.

Bisciotti made a billion on hiring and firing people, that was his forte'. His whole business is human resources. You would think this could look at least like somebody had a clue through the process and from the promises to Billick up until this point in time it has been anything but.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Here's the thing, Biscuit, being super-guru, Forbes 500, mega businessman could have and should have handled today's proceedings differently. Instead of bringing Garrett back to Owings Mills, where the press was reporting on everything from the weather to what Garrett's wife was wearing, he could of had this interview in a private place, like his home. After he got a committment from Garrett then he could have shown off the crystal palace.

The fact is that the Biscuit and his partner in crime, Cass, have a very overinflated opinion of their organization. They never dreamed that it would shake down this way. They thought Garrett would be salivating at the prospect of coaching the world famous Baltimore Ravens. Their overconfidence in themselves and their team probably comes acrost loud and clear to potential candidates, and I'm sure it doesn't leave a pleasant taste in their mouths. Now it's backfired and these overconfident executives are starting to look like fools.


That first paragraph was an excellent point.

Good post

[BertJonesMyHero]

It is also possible that Garrett signed and we just don't know yet.

(Take that comment as you will.win wink nudge nudge)

[purplepoe]

But that's not the Ravens' philosophy. They simply do not believe in setting the market, which is exactly what paying a first-time head coach $3M would be doing.

The Ravens don't believe in setting the market when it comes to free agency. They don't believe in stretching for a player in the draft. This philosophy has worked for over a decade. Why change it now? To avoid being "embarrassed" or being called the "new Cleveland Browns" by Baltimore Greg?

The Ravens must feel that Jason Garrett is the #1 candidate out there, or else they wouldn't have had him in first. But they also must feel that he is not worth overpaying compared to their other options. There are many who believe John Harbaugh could be the better coach anyway.

I was very upset when I heard they let Garrett get away. But now that details are beginning to emerge I'm OK with it. If Arthur Blank is willing to set a new standard for unproven head coaches and Garrett wants to work in that mess, then let him. Or if wants to be a $3M/year OC looking over Wade Phillips' shoulder, then let him. We'll take Harbaugh.

The Ravens are betting Garrett sees that they have a lot more to offer besides money. If he doesn't, let him go. He won't fit in with the Ravens' philosophy anyway. A philosophy that has won a Super Bowl a hell of a lot more recently than either Atlanta or Dallas.

And not setting the market means we end up paying more. Take a look at the bloated salaries on our team and tell me not setting the market did any good.

IMO this has NOTHING to do with money at all. Steve Bisciotti isn't gonna let his #1 guy go after what he said was such a hard decision to can Billick.

There is no cap and he's free to pony up whatever he wants.

I cannot believe some of you think money is the issue here.

Say, for example that Garrett wants 4 years at $12 million but the Ravens are offering 4 years at $8 or $10 million. Do you really think Bisciotti, who just ate $15 million is gonna pass up his #1 choice for a few million dollars over the course of 4 years?

No way in hell.


PP

[Greg]

The ravens website was being updated all day by Byrne, and not once did he or anyone attached to the Ravens say this. Really you are going to say the media doesn't F up. You think maybe that since he was the first to be called back they wouldn't jump the gun.
First off, Aaron Wilson is pretty well the last guy to indicate a deal is close unless he was told by somebody with juice. Second, he wasn't the only one thinking all was done.

Somebody in the Ravens organization took the guy's wife to shop for houses.

[Rayvens52]

even if there was an offer made which again i'm not sure one was, but who cares if he walks. Why is everyone so excited about him. What has he done that makes him this great propect for a HC. He has been a coach for 3 years. Again not saying I would be unhappy if he was the choice, but I also don't understand all the hype for a guy with VERY little experience.

[Rayvens52]

First off, Aaron Wilson is pretty well the last guy to indicate a deal is close unless he was told by somebody with juice. Second, he wasn't the only one thinking all was done.

Somebody in the Ravens organization took the guy's wife to shop for houses.

Does not mean an offer was made to him. Maybe she wanted to look at the area. Maybe they wanted to see if it was a good fit for thier family. Maybe he wants to discuss this with his father who was a coach for a long time. Not everybody just jumps at offers, i know i don't. This is a big decision, so taking some time is not the end of the world. We don't know shit exept what Espn reports, and they are far from a reliable source.

[Greg]

Why is everyone so excited about him.
Have you read the thread? I don't care about Garrett, he might be a puke HC. But Bisciotti wanted him and held off everybody else for a second interview until we get this guy in. Then we INDEED make him an offer, he was made an offer, and he walks away.

It sure seems like this job isn't very attractive and when you add it all up this organization isn't looking well run at the moment.

[purplepoe]

even if there was an offer made which again i'm not sure one was, but who cares if he walks. Why is everyone so excited about him. What has he done that makes him this great propect for a HC. He has been a coach for 3 years. Again not saying I would be unhappy if he was the choice, but I also don't understand all the hype for a guy with VERY little experience.

Once again, this has NOTHING to do with the fact that it was Garrett.

The actual candidate is beside the point here.

And please, a guy doesn't come up for the 2nd time, bring his wife, and spend 7 hours at the complex if an offer isn't gonna be made.


PP

[Raveninwoodlawn]

But that's not the Ravens' philosophy. They simply do not believe in setting the market, which is exactly what paying a first-time head coach $3M would be doing.

The Ravens don't believe in setting the market when it comes to free agency. They don't believe in stretching for a player in the draft. This philosophy has worked for over a decade. Why change it now? To avoid being "embarrassed" or being called the "new Cleveland Browns" by Baltimore Greg?



You have got to be kidding. This Right Player, Right Place thing is such a myth.

This team has overpaid so many players and thrown so much money down the drain it's not funny.

We are 5-11 and have the second highest cap number in the league.

Take a look at these cap numbers... (http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp)

Are you kidding me? We are projected to be OVER the cap by $5 million, yet we don't overpay or "set the market"?

This is a team that when it sees someone they want, they go out and get and deal with the consequences later...see TO.

[highwater]

even if there was an offer made which again i'm not sure one was, but who cares if he walks. Why is everyone so excited about him. What has he done that makes him this great propect for a HC.

As I think Greg mentioned earlier in this thread, it just looks bad if we put out an offer and a guy with no HC experience turns it down.

I'm not on the "sky is falling" bandwagon, but I agree it would look bad. Just like when Billick wouldn't agree to a deal with the Browns.

[Greg]

Maybe he wants to discuss this with his father who was a coach for a long time.
One would think this thinking was all done between the first interview and the second.

[HoustonRaven]

One would think this thinking was all done between the first interview and the second.

No, YOU would think it.

And show me where the wife went house shopping?

[purplepoe]

One would think this thinking was all done between the first interview and the second.

You know what?

Let's stop pretending this was even an interview.

This was a negotiation and at the end of the day, Garrett didn't sign on.

Period.

This wasn't a GD interview. They made no secret he was their guy and he left them at the alter.

All this crap about not knowing if an offer was really made is ridiculous.

Heads need to be removed from the sand.

PP

[Mr.Boh]

It is also possible that Garrett signed and we just don't know yet.

(Take that comment as you will.win wink nudge nudge)

See my post in the other garrett thread. could this blind squirrel finaly found a nut? :rolling:

[Greg]

Are you kidding me? We are projected to be OVER the cap by $5 million, yet we don't overpay or "set the market"?
I think the red is a mistake, it appears we are UNDER by $5 million. In the text they mention Washington as being the only team over.

[Greg]

And show me where the wife went house shopping?
The reporters all saw his wife driven off and they were given this information. I am not making shit up.

Listen, I don't like this, it isn't my nature to be negative but this comes off as a second rate job so far.

[HoustonRaven]

Although I DONT agree with the doom sayers here, if Garrett got on a plane and headed out, I think it's safe to say he's not going to sign.

Garrett is no dumby and I am sure he had his agent pour over everything while he was in OM. There is a small chance he will sign, but I think the odds are now on him going back to the Cowboys.

[StingerNLG]

Ogden saying what coaches he won't play for.

Ray calling out the HC on a radio show.

I talked to 2 people in the media at the airport in Buffalo coming back.

They said half the team acts like they are 2 years old when they lose and a 1/4 act like pricks when even when they win.

You think all the whispers about clicks and huge egos are just made up?

Hell, you can look at what AD said.

You really think everything in that locker room is fine?

That's hard for me to believe.

PP


Not just AD. Remember why Ed Hartwell left.

PP and Greg I think really make the points here. If this is such a coveted position, then on the SECOND interview he should have jumped at it, instead of possibly using us as leverage to get more money from Uncle Jerry.

There is something wrong here when the guy they are gunning for spends all day here, his wife getting driven around town, and then that guy says "Welp, it's been a fun day. I'm out," and heads for the airport.


The only way this story gets worse is if he actually takes the Falcons job.

[Rayvens52]

they have said they have intended on bringing in marty and others for round 2. Why is it so hard to believe that the Ravens brought him in and said hey right now you are the front runner, but we don't want to fuck this up so we are going to talk with some others and we will let you know. Maybe Garret wants the job so he brought his wife to show he is interested, and then the media blew this out of proportion. If we end up with the HC the FO office wants who cares how we look. I could give two shits what any other fan thinks of us, every team has shit around them....ummmm spygate. get a grip people this is not bad.

[btownraven]

First off, Aaron Wilson is pretty well the last guy to indicate a deal is close unless he was told by somebody with juice. Second, he wasn't the only one thinking all was done.

So did Aaron think the deal was close or done? There is a HUGE difference. I NEVER saw Aaron say a deal was done.


Somebody in the Ravens organization took the guy's wife to shop for houses.

Big deal. This happens all the time in recruiting executive-level jobs in corporate America. You bring in the top candidate and his wife. You negotiate with the candidate and try to sell the wife on the city by showing her neighborhoods. Sometimes negotiations hit a snag just when you think you're close. She wasn't going to buy a house without Jason being there anyway. Give me a break.

[HoustonRaven]

Not just AD. Remember why Ed Hartwell left.

Who? I seem to remember someone with his name going to the Falcons and doing absolutely DICK!


There is something wrong here when the guy they are gunning for spends all day here, his wife getting driven around town, and then that guy says "Welp, it's been a fun day. I'm out," and heads for the airport.

Did you watch the video posted on the Sun? Im gonna say you didnt because he was glowing in his praise of our organization.

[purplepoe]

they have said they have intended on bringing in marty and others for round 2. Why is it so hard to believe that the Ravens brought him in and said hey right now you are the front runner, but we don't want to fuck this up so we are going to talk with some others and we will let you know. Maybe Garret wants the job so he brought his wife to show he is interested, and then the media blew this out of proportion. If we end up with the HC the FO office wants who cares how we look. I could give two shits what any other fan thinks of us, every team has shit around them....ummmm spygate. get a grip people this is not bad.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

But answer me this. If this truly was a 2nd interview then why wasn't Harbaugh brought in last week for his 2nd interview? They've been free to talk to him since December 30th and yet only brought him in once.

Do you really think it's just a coincidence that Garrett was the first guy brought in after the 1st set of interviews?

He's the guy man. He brought his wife up because he knew this was gonna be the day he would be offered the job. Hell, she could've said she hated the area and didn't wanna move here. Who knows.

Do you honestly think that he wasn't offered the job and that this was just the start of another round of interviews? I really can't understand how you could come to that conclusion.

PP

[Rayvens52]

the people on this site that are bitching right now are a joke. You have no clue as to what is going on in OM nor do I. Until we hear Garret say No i don't want the JOb the Ravens have not Offically offered me who cares. This is all speculation. I have never met so many whining, unrealistic people ever.

[purplepoe]

Did you watch the video posted on the Sun? Im gonna say you didnt because he was glowing in his praise of our organization.

Cmon Houston.

I watched the whole thing.

Did you expect ANYTHING different to come out of his mouth? He's their #1 choice for crying out loud.

PP

[Greg]

She wasn't going to buy a house without Jason being there anyway. Give me a break.
What does that have to do with what I posted, she was taken out to look around. That is all I said. I never said she was going to buy.


Did you watch the video posted on the Sun? Im gonna say you didnt because he was glowing in his praise of our organization.
"This organization is really top notch and they have made me a very nice offer, so I am going to pass."

It's called not burning bridges.

[Rayvens52]

You are free to believe whatever you want.

But answer me this. If this truly was a 2nd interview then why wasn't Harbaugh brought in last week for his 2nd interview? They've been free to talk to him since December 30th and yet only brought him in once.

Do you really think it's just a coincidence that Garrett was the first guy brought in after the 1st set of interviews?

He's the guy man. He brought his wife up because he knew this was gonna be the day he would be offered the job. Hell, she could've said she hated the area and didn't wanna move here. Who knows.

Do you honestly think that he wasn't offered the job and that this was just the start of another round of interviews? I really can't understand how you could come to that conclusion.

PP

Ok then answer this man. If he never intended on wanting this job would he even bring his wife. When i was offered my current position they wanted to meet my wife, and if I was not interested i never would have brought her in to meet my bosses.

[Rayvens52]

What does that have to do with what I posted, she was taken out to look around. That is all I said. I never said she was going to buy.


"This organization is really top notch and they have made me a very nice offer, so I am going to pass."

It's called not burning bridges.

he never said that. stop starting rumors.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I think the red is a mistake, it appears we are UNDER by $5 million. In the text they mention Washington as being the only team over.

You're right.

It still is amazing how all these playoff teams have all this cap space while we are scraping up against the cap.

[purplepoe]

Ok then answer this man. If he never intended on wanting this job would he even bring his wife. When i was offered my current position they wanted to meet my wife, and if I was not interested i never would have brought her in to meet my bosses.

Of course he was interested in the job.

Who said he wasn't?

PP

[Greg]

the people on this site that are bitching right now are a joke. You have no clue as to what is going on in OM nor do I. Until we hear Garret say No i don't want the JOb the Ravens have not Offically offered me who cares. This is all speculation. I have never met so many whining, unrealistic people ever.
Nobody is whining.

Go back and read all of my posts in the last year, I am the last person to be negative about the Ravens. The thing is, this whole thing smells. IT JUST DOES.

I don't know what happened today but from what we have been told and from what we do know has happened, like this being the ONLY second interview, this was going to be the day. Something spooked the guy. If he just wanted to do the interview and then mull it over, why bring the wife? He knew there would be an offer. He could have asked for all of this advice already. Something wasn't attractive about the job and he passed.

[purplepoe]

You're right.

It still is amazing how all these playoff teams have all this cap space while we are scraping up against the cap.

The only thing "not setting the market" does is cost you more money when the market is set.

PP

[purplepoe]

Nobody is whining.

Go back and read all of my posts in the last year, I am the last person to be negative about the Ravens. The thing is, this whole thing smells. IT JUST DOES.

I don't know what happened today but from what we have been told and from what we do know has happened, like this being the ONLY second interview, this was going to be the day. Something spooked the guy. If he just wanted to do the interview and then mull it over, why bring the wife? He knew there would be an offer. He could have asked for all of this advice already. Something wasn't attractive about the job and he passed.

Exactly.

PP

[Rayvens52]

Nobody is whining.

Go back and read all of my posts in the last year, I am the last person to be negative about the Ravens. The thing is, this whole thing smells. IT JUST DOES.

I don't know what happened today but from what we have been told and from what we do know has happened, like this being the ONLY second interview, this was going to be the day. Something spooked the guy. If he just wanted to do the interview and then mull it over, why bring the wife? He knew there would be an offer. He could have asked for all of this advice already. Something wasn't attractive about the job and he passed.

I just think you might be overanalyzing this. I think we should just wait and see how this pans out before we all freak out and call our team the Browns. I just don't think it is as bad as you do. I just don't think you bring your wife along if you are not very interested in the job. Maybe he is a big family man, and now that she has seen the place wants to talk with his family some more. I just think we should chill untill we say we made an offer and then he comes back says i'm not going to take it.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Ok then answer this man. If he never intended on wanting this job would he even bring his wife. When i was offered my current position they wanted to meet my wife, and if I was not interested i never would have brought her in to meet my bosses.

Huh? I think there was a real possibility that he was taking this job...hence his wife being shown around town.

He was preparing himself and his wife for the possibility of this being his next job.

IMHO though, his entire heart wasn't in it and he wants to be in Dallas and that is why he left.

I don't think anybody has said or implied here that he had absolutely no intention of taking the job.

[btownraven]

You have got to be kidding. This Right Player, Right Place thing is such a myth.

This team has overpaid so many players and thrown so much money down the drain it's not funny.

We are 5-11 and have the second highest cap number in the league.

Take a look at these cap numbers... (http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp)

Are you kidding me? We are projected to be OVER the cap by $5 million, yet we don't overpay or "set the market"?

This is a team that when it sees someone they want, they go out and get and deal with the consequences later...see TO.
Please give me an example where we set the market for someone signing their first contract with the Ravens. We have paid VERY well for guys who have proven their worth AS Ravens. We've even paid well for free agents to become Ravens, but we haven't set the market.

As far as our cap figure being the second-highest in the league, that indicates we have a LOT of guys being very-well paid. It does NOT indicate that we're setting the market for salaries. There's a HUGE difference.

I don't understand your TO argument. One of the reasons he didn't want to come here was he was expecting a big pay day and the Ravens didn't promise him anything.

Again, if the "Right Player, Right Price" thing is such a myth, please show me an example where the Ravens set the market for a free agent (in other words, someone who hasn't done a damn thing for the Ravens - kinda like Jason Garrett). Hell, we don't even set the market for draft picks. We went 6 freakin' years without getting a 1st round pick in camp on time!

[purplepoe]

I just think you might be overanalyzing this. I think we should just wait and see how this pans out before we all freak out and call our team the Browns. I just don't think it is as bad as you do. I just don't think you bring your wife along if you are not very interested in the job. Maybe he is a big family man, and now that she has seen the place wants to talk with his family some more. I just think we should chill untill we say we made an offer and then he comes back says i'm not going to take it.

Hey, that's cool if that's what you think.

How about laying off calling everyone who doesn't like this "a joke" etc....

This is a good solid board that usually avoids that kind of stuff.

Onto the topic.

Im not following where you talk about him not being interested in the job. Meaning, do you think some of us believe that he wasn't interested in becoming HC here or something?

Because I can assure you that I believe he was very interested but at the end of the day decided against it.

PP

[MRAVEN]

Link? Source?

I find it very hard to believe they argued over $500k.

Aaron Wilson,can't link it,it's a subscriber forum.

[Greg]

If he was still interested he would be staying in a very nice hotel somewhere nearby. HE PASSED.

He brought his wife because an offer was coming, he got it and for some reason passed. He's gone. And it more than likely is because being the HMFIC of this team didn't sit well with him.

[purple bird]

I am of the opinion that if, after wining and dining your first potential candidate for a new employee, the employee rejects you, then there must be something unappealing with the job, organization or offer (or combination of all three).


I have the feeling that he probably was offered (nothing is certain, but I would assume that most of the signs indicate that) the job and that he probably will be saying no.

That being said, we don't know with 100% certainty that everything went down as I speculated above (which would be in agreement with Greg's hypothesis), but all signs do point to that.

Of course there is a slim chance that Garret is or was eager for the Ravens job, but it was his wife that could not be sold on the "moving to Baltimore" bit. Therefore, if the wifey wears the pants in the Garret household, then Mr. Garrett probably isn't becoming the Ravens HC.

Didn't want him anyway, but this does make the position look like a 2nd rate head coaching job.

I actually think this Sparano guy is really going to be the successful one out of the 2007 new coach bunch. He looks like a hard-nosed guy; we already know Bill Parcells likes him as a coach which I wouldn't say is a bad thing.

I think Schwartz is of the same mold as Sparano....and he is from Arbutus. Why aren't they at least interviewing Schwartz?

I hope the front office doesn't think "if we hire a former coordinator who ran a good offense, then we will have a good offense" because the guy won't be coordinating anymore once he is the head coach. It is the offensive coordinator who coaches a good offense, not a head coach. Garret WAS an offensive coordinator (actually still is, my bad), but if we are trying to woo him as head coach, I would be concerned with who HIS offensive coordinator would be.

Just my two cents.

[Rayvens52]

Hey, that's cool if that's what you think.

How about laying off calling everyone who doesn't like this "a joke" etc....

This is a good solid board that usually avoids that kind of stuff.

Onto the topic.

Im not following where you talk about him not being interested in the job. Meaning, do you think some of us believe that he wasn't interested in becoming HC here or something?

Because I can assure you that I believe he was very interested but at the end of the day decided against it.

PP

I apoligize for the "Joke" comment, i'm just saying how one bad year and everyone is ripping the ravens, now even calling the organization the browns seems crazy IMO. Like i said before why did he have to turn it down. He seemed pretty happy speaking with the media. Why could it not be now he wants to discuss everything with his family, now that the wife has been here and more serious talks have happened.

[btownraven]

The only thing "not setting the market" does is cost you more money when the market is set.

PP
Huh?:grbac:

Please provide an example.

BTW, the team that consistently sets the market, the Redskins, are WAY over next year's cap, with a team that barely made the playoffs.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I think Greg was maybe a little over the top in his initial post, but these concerns and observations are VERY valid IMHO.

I don't think a lot of our fans have a realistic view of our franchise and the men who run it.

[Greg]

Please give me an example where we set the market for someone signing their first contract with the Ravens. We have paid VERY well for guys who have proven their worth AS Ravens. We've even paid well for free agents to become Ravens, but we haven't set the market.
Weren't both Ogden and Ray Lewis not just the highest paid players at their position, but in the league at one time when new contracts were given? I know Ray was, if JO wasn't he certainly was the highest paid OL.

We gave McNair $11 million on bonus when there were no other bidders and his services were had for a 4th rounder.

You don't get to have the second highest cap number in the NFL by being diligent in the payroll, at least not when you are sporting 5 wins to boot.

[purplepoe]

Please give me an example where we set the market for someone signing their first contract with the Ravens. We have paid VERY well for guys who have proven their worth AS Ravens. We've even paid well for free agents to become Ravens, but we haven't set the market.

As far as our cap figure being the second-highest in the league, that indicates we have a LOT of guys being very-well paid. It does NOT indicate that we're setting the market for salaries. There's a HUGE difference.

I don't understand your TO argument. One of the reasons he didn't want to come here was he was expecting a big pay day and the Ravens didn't promise him anything.

Again, if the "Right Player, Right Price" thing is such a myth, please show me an example where the Ravens set the market for a free agent (in other words, someone who hasn't done a damn thing for the Ravens - kinda like Jason Garrett). Hell, we don't even set the market for draft picks. We went 6 freakin' years without getting a 1st round pick in camp on time!

Wait a second.

Now you are saying just first time contracts?

And either way, we certainly have set the market with out own players. Ray's contract absolutely set the market. It was the biggest bonus EVER for a defensive player.

We didn't "set" the market for McAlister. We only waited and waited until it was set and then spent WAY more than we would've initially because Ozzie didn't want to "set" the market.

We set the market with Heap's deal. It was the richest deal ever for a TE at that point in time.

We set the market with Ed Reed's deal. Biggest deal ever for a safety until Polomalu signed. In fact, we set the market for that deal.

Our cap number indicates that we OVER paid for many of our current players.

We either waited too long to get deals done or simply outbid ourselves.

PP

[Rayvens52]

Wait a second.

Now you are saying just first time contracts?

And either way, we certainly have set the market with out own players. Ray's contract absolutely set the market. It was the biggest bonus EVER for a defensive player.

We didn't "set" the market for McAlister. We only waited and waited until it was set and then spent WAY more than we would've initially because Ozzie didn't want to "set" the market.

We set the market with Heap's deal. It was the richest deal ever for a TE at that point in time.

We set the market with Ed Reed's deal. Biggest deal ever for a safety until Polomalu signed. In fact, we set the market for that deal.

Our cap number indicates that we OVER paid for many of our current players.

We either waited too long to get deals done or simply outbid ourselves.

PP



were you saying they were overpaid last year when the sight of a super bowl ring were right there, i don't think so, now we have one bad year and PEOPLE are calling for ray's head, it's a bad locker room, the FO sucks. come on guys it is not that bad. relax a bit we will be just fine.

[purplepoe]

were you saying they were overpaid last year when the sight of a super bowl ring were right there, i don't think so, now we have one bad year and PEOPLE are calling for ray's head, it's a bad locker room, the FO sucks. come on guys it is not that bad. relax a bit we will be just fine.

Actually, I was.

And Im not calling for Ray's head.

It's not the player's I question with regards to the salary.

The day we signed Heap I said it was way too big of a deal.

IMO this team is way too reactive in it's negotiations and it costs them in the long run.

We've had countless discussions about it over the years.

PP

[GoldenArm22]

I honestly don't see why everyone is flipping out about this. There's no rule that says you have to accept the job the day of the second interview. Garrett is doing EXACTLY what a smart businessman should do: weighing his options. Not just financially, but in terms of the job, the city, the organization and a ton of other factors.

Honestly, I'm glad he didn't accept today. Not because I don't want him as head coach (my jury's still out there) but because there's no such thing as having too many candidates to interview. If Garrett taking time to make a decision allows the Ravens to interview some other quality names, I don't see if it's a problem.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Please give me an example where we set the market for someone signing their first contract with the Ravens. We have paid VERY well for guys who have proven their worth AS Ravens. We've even paid well for free agents to become Ravens, but we haven't set the market.

As far as our cap figure being the second-highest in the league, that indicates we have a LOT of guys being very-well paid. It does NOT indicate that we're setting the market for salaries. There's a HUGE difference.

I don't understand your TO argument. One of the reasons he didn't want to come here was he was expecting a big pay day and the Ravens didn't promise him anything.

Again, if the "Right Player, Right Price" thing is such a myth, please show me an example where the Ravens set the market for a free agent (in other words, someone who hasn't done a damn thing for the Ravens - kinda like Jason Garrett). Hell, we don't even set the market for draft picks. We went 6 freakin' years without getting a 1st round pick in camp on time!

What? An example of setting the market of a player signing thier first contract? And then you basically eliminate FA signings by saying we pay well for free agents but don't set the market. So the only opportunity we have to set the market is by signing rookies?:insane:

If you sign a player...whether he is on your team or not, you are setting the market. We set the market with Ray. We set the market with Heap. We set the market with Ogden. We set the market with Reed. All of those players were at some point or another the highest paid player at thier position. Some may have deserved it...but if you pay a player the highest amount in the history of the league at his position...you are setting the market...just like the Colts did with Peyton and Freeney...and Broncos did with Champ and the Redskins did with Portis. Most of the big groundbreaking contracts are teams resigning their own players so you can't just not take that into account.

And yes we have a lot of well ***cough***overpaid***cough***players. It says something when teams like Jax and Tenn can make the playoffs yet have the same number of players under contract while being younger and be around $30 million under the cap. Hell even the Pats all star roster has over $10 million available and the Cowboys who had a record 11 pro bowlers have over $20 million available.

As for TO...it was apparent that he did NOT want to come here from the jump...and we did it anyway because we wanted him. And were prepared to sit on his rights even while he was throwing this franchise under the bus. To me that is I want this player and I'm getting him no matter what.

As for setting the market for a FA...again, NOBODY does that. 9 times out of 10 the market is being set when a player is being resigned...the only recent example of an outside team doing that is Steve Hutchinson...and even then, the Seahawks blew it by transitioning him and would have matched that offer sheet no questions asked if it weren't to be garunteed under that poison pill.

This team has spent a ton of money of old FA's like McNair(whom we weren't bidding against anybody for), Rolle, and Pryce. And don't even think about going back to the Grbac/Searcy Fiasco.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

were you saying they were overpaid last year when the sight of a super bowl ring were right there, i don't think so, now we have one bad year and PEOPLE are calling for ray's head, it's a bad locker room, the FO sucks. come on guys it is not that bad. relax a bit we will be just fine.

I was never comfortable with the amount of the signings last year.

Is it worth it when you win a ring?

Sure.

But I don't want to go through another 2002.

A lot of these contracts Ozzie dishes out make me...:insane:

[StingerNLG]

Who? I seem to remember someone with his name going to the Falcons and doing absolutely DICK!

Doesn't matter what he's done there. What matters is why he left when he was a very good linebacker HERE.

Atlanta is a joke of a team, even when they had Michael Vick.



Did you watch the video posted on the Sun? Im gonna say you didnt because he was glowing in his praise of our organization.

Yippie. And he didn't take the job when it was offered to him. His praise means nothing. That's like if a player says "Well, the Ravens are a great organization, and I am impressed by them...............but I want to play in Philly and that's where I'm going to play."

[Purpleguy]

Greg really should have specified that we are actually the Browns of 99-2006. The current Browns organization is actually better run than ours and a better team. Were sort of like the Cardinals as opposed to the Browns.

BTW, Ogden was at one point in time the highest paid player in the league.

[TTRaven]

Get a grip people! The guy is weighing his options. He has a lot of things to think about. I doubt he would lead the Ravens on if he wasn't seriously considering their offer. Let things play out before you jump off the bridge!

[Gabrosin]

Look, I don't have nearly enough time to actually read this entire thread, so I'm betting this has been said already in some form.

I hear stories about free agent players flying somewhere and teams "not letting them leave" without a contract. I always think, how absurd is that? How can you possibly make the best decision if you don't examine all your options?

I want a head coach who is committed to doing right by himself on the business side of the game. That tells me he's intelligent enough to KNOW HOW to make an informed decision after weighing all his options. Not one prone to abandoning his plan and making rash decisions.

He has an offer from the Ravens and another from the Falcons and now he'll get to hear Jerry Jones' pitch for staying. Keep in mind that this guy has a wife and children (I've seen them mentioned in articles, at least). He may have very valid reasons for not wanting to uproot his family from Dallas; I know he was a journeyman NFL backup before coaching, but that may be all the more reason he would stay put if he could. I'm not going to fault the guy for deciding he'd rather stay at home with the guys he has already and the full knowledge that either he'll be the next head coach of the Cowboys or he'll be just as coveted next year and beyond!

Let's all just face the fact that loyalty in today's NFL is something that starts AFTER the player/coach has signed the first contract IF WE'RE LUCKY. There are a lot of factors going into Garrett's decision and he holds all the cards; we'll just have to have a little patience and see what he decides. Our other candidates will still be there if he turns us down.

Now if he chose the Falcons over us, THEN we have reason to panic.

[3RDRowRaven]

Oh no Greg....say ain't so.........:grbac:

I would like to see Marty ball come here and straighten things out.

[Greg]

Get a grip people! The guy is weighing his options. He has a lot of things to think about. I doubt he would lead the Ravens on if he wasn't seriously considering their offer. Let things play out before you jump off the bridge!
I am not ready to jump off of a bridge or anything close. But this whole process has a second-rate smell to it. From the handling of Billick, through the press conference and first round interviews where stiffs in the Clown organization blew us off to Garrett saying "That's nice and this is a great organization, I am very impressed, I will let you know" and then takes off to check out the Falcons.

I want the Ravens to be a team coaches and players dream to be a part of, and that is NOT currently the case. It wasn't too long ago it was the case, what has happened?

[RavenScallywag]

I think we can really compare this in two scenarios...

1. It's Ravens vs Falcons - Ok, there we are screwed then...Falcons are a shamble of a team and I honestly can't see any upside there except that it might be a better city...Maybe (I mean, their biggest thing is a big airport, idk what else)

2. Ravens vs Cowboys - Here's where I can see some contention. The Cowboys are just opening their SB window. There's not much chance of turnover, in terms of starters leaving. Also, there's the whole "America's team" status and a lot of tradition and history there. Plus, Garrett was the QB there for awhile, so he has a bigger connection to Dallas from that. If that's the case, I don't think we were second rate, I think Garrett is trying to be loyal to Dallas, which would appear to be his main team. However, if that's the case, we should grant his wish and retract the offer.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I want the Ravens to be a team coaches and players dream to be a part of, and that is NOT currently the case. It wasn't too long ago it was the case, what has happened?

We are old and and have made the playoffs once in the past 4 years. People here want to talk about how great a job this is...sure, it may be ok next year, but we have a lot of cap issues with a lot of old players and have a huge ? at if not the most important, certainly one of the most important positions in sports.

This isn't looked at as the elite franchise many of us want(ed) to believe.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I don't understand why people are trying to make this out to be about Garrett "taking time to explore his options".

Are you telling me he needed even MORE time to decide whether he wanted to move from Dallas? He doesn't know whether he wants to be loyal to JJ or become a HC somewhere else? He has had MONTHS to think about these things...and this isn't a guy just getting uprooted...It is the NFL...it happens and comes with the territory, whether it's by choice or getting fired. You want to move up/make more money in this league, especially for coaches, you are going to have to move and take your family with you.

I mean, some of you are acting as if we never chatted with him before and is just now realizing that he may have an opportunity to coach and would have to move his family. He was here 2 weeks ago for crying out loud for the real "interview".

I know that constantly moving came with the territory of my job, and I was offered a promotion to the top of all my profession, and the salary was good, it would take me one week after initial interview max to know if I would take it or not. It's not like he is moving from LA to some tiny town in Idaho...major cities are major cities.

I understand some people have ties to certain cities/towns and people there, but when your opportunity arises, you have to take it. Listen, I like my job that I have now, I'm Baltimore born and raised and I love my city. But I was given the honor of just intervieiwing for a scouting position with any NFL franchise at all, I would jump at it...and I have a family too. Yes I'd even take a job wit hthe Browns/Steeler or across the country in San Diego or Oakland. Would my ultimate preferance obviously be to work for the team I love and in my hometown?...of course. But when you have a passion for something, you go for it no matter were it takes you because you just never know if you will get the opportunity again.

Fortunately for Garrett, the team is not going to take this offer off the table (which I certainly would have yanked last night), so he can try to extort as much money from JJ as possible it seems.

[HoustonRaven]

I don't understand why people are trying to make this out to be about Garrett "taking time to explore his options".

Are you telling me he needed even MORE time to decide whether he wanted to move from Dallas? He doesn't know whether he wants to be loyal to JJ or become a HC somewhere else? He has had MONTHS to think about these things...and this isn't a guy just getting uprooted...It is the NFL...it happens and comes with the territory, whether it's by choice or getting fired. You want to move up/make more money in this league, especially for coaches, you are going to have to move and take your family with you.

I mean, some of you are acting as if we never chatted with him before and is just now realizing that he may have an opportunity to coach and would have to move his family. He was here 2 weeks ago for crying out loud for the real "interview".

I know that constantly moving came with the territory of my job, and I was offered a promotion to the top of all my profession, and the salary was good, it would take me one week after initial interview max to know if I would take it or not. It's not like he is moving from LA to some tiny town in Idaho...major cities are major cities.

I understand some people have ties to certain cities/towns and people there, but when your opportunity arises, you have to take it. Listen, I like my job that I have now, I'm Baltimore born and raised and I love my city. But I was given the honor of just intervieiwing for a scouting position with any NFL franchise at all, I would jump at it...and I have a family too. Yes I'd even take a job wit hthe Browns/Steeler or across the country in San Diego or Oakland. Would my ultimate preferance obviously be to work for the team I love and in my hometown?...of course. But when you have a passion for something, you go for it no matter were it takes you because you just never know if you will get the opportunity again.

Fortunately for Garrett, the team is not going to take this offer off the table (which I certainly would have yanked last night), so he can try to extort as much money from JJ as possible it seems.

What about your assumptions? You've been saying stuff that make me believe you've been som fly on the wall.

Dont accuse us of making assumptions when you're doing the same. You've been right there with the doom sayers on this one. Not only that, but you've been slamming our FO as if you know.

Look up the psychological "projection" and get back to me! :thumbup:

[Greg]

These are high quality retorts.

The guy left because this job wasn't attractive to him, if it were he would be the HC.

He has mulled this over for a while, he doesn't need more time. He passed.

[RavenScallywag]

I think regardless of whether he takes the offer eventually or doesn't, this is leaving a sour taste in the fans' mouths, and I can't really see him being widely accepted and cheered if he does come here now, because many fans will still be pissed about this mess.

[Greg]

I don't care about that in regard to who gets the job, etc.

Hopefully whoever we land turns out to be really good. What has me concerned is that we are competing with the freaking Falcons as if that job is as attractive us this one. Apparently it is.

I was hoping this team was viewed as a choice opportunity, apparently that isn't the case.

[Rochardrik]

Whew! What a Lengthy thread!! ... You know what I gleaned from it all?... This IS a good job... the best jobs are where there are rabid fans!!! 'N they don't get any more rabid than this!!!!:taz: :179421: :hammer:

[Purpleguy]

BTW, Garrett has no children so it's not like he is worried about uprooting the kids.

[The Fanatic]

BTW, Garrett has no children so it's not like he is worried about uprooting the kids.


He's alose from the New Jersey area and still has family there.

One would think he'd want to be closer to his family, and that would immediately be a deciding factor when being presented options.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

What about your assumptions? You've been saying stuff that make me believe you've been som fly on the wall.

Dont accuse us of making assumptions when you're doing the same. You've been right there with the doom sayers on this one. Not only that, but you've been slamming our FO as if you know.

Look up the psychological "projection" and get back to me! :thumbup:

Huh? I asked a question as to why a man who has had at least 3 months to think about whether he would want to move his family and take a promotion that would take him to the top of his profession. This isn't a normal profession where job offers sometimes come when you are expecting it. This isn't a normal profession at all. Moving/promotions/terminations and moving yet again are completely normal.

This has been a pretty average organization since 2000, yet nobody is allowed to call out the FO?

[GoldenArm22]

Huh? I asked a question as to why a man who has had at least 3 months to think about whether he would want to move his family and take a promotion that would take him to the top of his profession. This isn't a normal profession where job offers sometimes come when you are expecting it. This isn't a normal profession at all. Moving/promotions/terminations and moving yet again are completely normal.

This has been a pretty average organization since 2000, yet nobody is allowed to call out the FO?

Well to be fair, the Ravens coaching position has only been open for a week and a half, and it's not like it was a lock that Billick was gonna get sacked. Same deal with the Falcons. Who knew that Petrino was gonna bail after less than one season? So I doubt Garrett was spending a lot of his free time during the season (which I doubt he has lots of anyway, especially during the playoff run) researching the pros and cons of the two cities. I don't blame the guy at all for taking his time to weigh the options. I'd do the exact same thing if offered jobs in 2 cities I'm not familiar with as well as a lesser but equally paying job in my hometown.

[Rayvens52]

Huh? I asked a question as to why a man who has had at least 3 months to think about whether he would want to move his family and take a promotion that would take him to the top of his profession. This isn't a normal profession where job offers sometimes come when you are expecting it. This isn't a normal profession at all. Moving/promotions/terminations and moving yet again are completely normal.

This has been a pretty average organization since 2000, yet nobody is allowed to call out the FO?

I am not saying you said this but just using your post as an example. I love how people say this organization has been avergae since 2000, but then come back and say firing Billick was a huge mistake. If you are so unhappy with this teams performance since 2000 then why would you want Billick here who was the major contributing factor to this lack of an organization you guys call it. Everybody needs to relax a little, this organization is being called a top spot across all media outlets right now. Why can Garrett not think this whole thing over. Why did he have to decide right on the spot. If I was in his shoes I would do the exact same thing, and I'm sure the Ravens figured as much. To all who are so unhappy with this team, why don't you go become a Raiders fan, or Detroit fan and then come back here and tell me you still feel the same way. It is truly amazing how 1 bad season makes all the nut jobs come out.

[metro]

I'm sorry, but this is a clusterfuck. Something is wrong with this team we don't know about. Word must be out around the NFL that this is NOT a place one wants to work. Otherwise people would be begging to come here and that doesn't appear to be the case.

Positives:
The Ravens have a respected GM with a proven track record of acquiring talent. They have a proud history. The facilities are top notch. The starting defense is still a top ranked defense in the league.
Negatives:
Several of the Ravens stars, Ray Lewis, Chris McAlister, Jon Ogden, etc. are aging and the Ravens haven't produced any new stars to build around. They have a cap issue. The Ravens offense is putrid.

You can look around the league and most teams have some issues...some have more issues than others. While the Ravens have problems, I don't think it's all doom gloom.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I am not saying you said this but just using your post as an example. I love how people say this organization has been avergae since 2000, but then come back and say firing Billick was a huge mistake. If you are so unhappy with this teams performance since 2000 then why would you want Billick here who was the major contributing factor to this lack of an organization you guys call it. Everybody needs to relax a little, this organization is being called a top spot across all media outlets right now. Why can Garrett not think this whole thing over. Why did he have to decide right on the spot. If I was in his shoes I would do the exact same thing, and I'm sure the Ravens figured as much. To all who are so unhappy with this team, why don't you go become a Raiders fan, or Detroit fan and then come back here and tell me you still feel the same way. It is truly amazing how 1 bad season makes all the nut jobs come out.


Where have I said firing Billick was a mistake? Most people aren't for or against the firing, just the way it went down and just want a coach who is at least as good as him. Billick is who he is, a slightly above average coach IMHO, but even those guys are not really easy to find as some people think.

[Rayvens52]

Where have I said firing Billick was a mistake?

Please enlighten me...

please read my first sentence again!!!!!

[Greg]

Positives:
The Ravens have a respected GM with a proven track record of acquiring talent. They have a proud history. The facilities are top notch. The starting defense is still a top ranked defense in the league.
Negatives:
Several of the Ravens stars, Ray Lewis, Chris McAlister, Jon Ogden, etc. are aging and the Ravens haven't produced any new stars to build around. They have a cap issue. The Ravens offense is putrid.
Negatives, the "respected" GM has our team with just enough cap to draft and apparently isn't getting paid attention to by the owner in regards to firing the HC. The last coach was made a promise about his job security which was then broken on a gut feeling after a bad night of sleep.

[jonboy79]

Negatives, the "respected" GM has our team with just enough cap to draft and apparently isn't getting paid attention to by the owner in regards to firing the HC. The last coach was made a promise about his job security which was then broken on a gut feeling after a bad night of sleep.


I have never in my life flwon with so many random assumptions as fact to such an extremem end. You make this team look like it is a complete joke, based on WILD assumptions... interesting.

Or, you could calm down, and wait for things to be announced as fact.

[HoustonRaven]

I have never in my life flwon with so many random assumptions as fact to such an extremem end. You make this team look like it is a complete joke, based on WILD assumptions... interesting.

Or, you could calm down, and wait for things to be announced as fact.

:laugh:

[Greg]

I have never in my life flwon with so many random assumptions as fact to such an extremem end. You make this team look like it is a complete joke, based on WILD assumptions... interesting.

Or, you could calm down, and wait for things to be announced as fact.
I am quite calm. And it is fact we are not in good cap shape. And it is fact that Bisciotti woke up the last Sunday of the season and on a whim and gut feeling fired the last coach.

I am making a small leap to the belief that Ozzie didn't want Billick canned and that he prefers Schottenheimer who was barely given a sniff, but that does seem to be the consensus of the "rumors."

Now if you think I am still wildly speculating so be it.

Maybe I should just toss up posts with little smileys in them and nothing else.

[HoustonRaven]

I am quite calm. And it is fact we are not in good cap shape. And it is fact that Bisciotti woke up the last Sunday of the season and on a whim and gut feeling fired the last coach.

I am making a small leap to the belief that Ozzie didn't want Billick canned and that he prefers Schottenheimer who was barely given a sniff, but that does seem to be the consensus of the "rumors."

Now if you think I am still wildly speculating so be it.

Maybe I should just toss up posts with little smileys in them and nothing else.

Well, what do you expect. There isnt a little snickering "I told you so" emoticon. If there was, I would have used it! ;)

[Greg]

We'll have to help you out to round out your takes, the quality would go up considerably.

Okay, one shot from me.

[HoustonRaven]

We'll have to help you out to round out your takes, the quality would go up considerably.

Okay, one shot from me.

Touche! ;)

[jonboy79]

I am quite calm. And it is fact we are not in good cap shape. And it is fact that Bisciotti woke up the last Sunday of the season and on a whim and gut feeling fired the last coach.

I am making a small leap to the belief that Ozzie didn't want Billick canned and that he prefers Schottenheimer who was barely given a sniff, but that does seem to be the consensus of the "rumors."

Now if you think I am still wildly speculating so be it.

Maybe I should just toss up posts with little smileys in them and nothing else.


It is also a fact that we are a few key personnel moves away from not havinga bad cap situation.
It is also a fact that Billick completely losing the locker room and losing 11 games with a championship caliber team had SOMETHING more to do then just a bad nights sleep. It made sense to keep him for the remainder of the season, but nto any longer then that. I would imagine the decision was made MUCH before that morning, but I don't know, because my last name is not Bischotti, so I don't claim to knwo the moment a decision was made, and not simply made public.
Small leap? You have turned Bischotti into Angelos. I'm as sure as you aren't that Ozzie was on board.
Shotty is 64 years old. He doesn't deserve a sniff. Regardless of other reasons he shouldn't have been considered. We need, fresh, young, energetic offensive minded blood.
Yes I think you are running with little bits and pieces of things lieka mad scientist.
No, please don't. I never, ever use those things. They perturb me.

[Greg]

It is also a fact that we are a few key personnel moves away from not havinga bad cap situation.
Such as?


It is also a fact that Billick completely losing the locker room and losing 11 games with a championship caliber team had SOMETHING more to do then just a bad nights sleep.
And this gut feeling had nothing to do with the investigations among the players, janitors and toilet scrubbers at One Winning Drive?


I would imagine the decision was made MUCH before that morning, but I don't know, because my last name is not Bischotti, so I don't claim to knwo the moment a decision was made, and not simply made public.
Bisciotti told us in that weird press conference that is exactly what happened. He woke up that Sunday with a "gut feeling" to fire him.


Small leap? You have turned Bischotti into Angelos.
Listen, I don't know ALL that is going on, but I do know something is wrong. And if Bisciotti becomes Angelos, or is, it isn't my doing.

[festivus]

I think it's great Garrett left without signing on the dotted line.

We're going to end up with a new head coach. There are several qualified candidates, and there is a very good chance we will end up with one of them.

But the search itself is exciting, so let it go on for a few more days.

I don't know anything about Garrett, or Harbaugh, or any of the young guys, and apparently that's who the FO is looking at. Whoever we end up with, I don't know 0.1% of what Ozz & co. know about each of them. So let them do their work, find one of them who will take our money, and go from there.

There is danger in reading too much into Garrett walking away without signing. It's the same danger we see in other forms on this board all the time: people thinking there is a silver bullet solution to some problem, and failing that solution, we are on the brink of catastrophe.

We'll get somebody. He will probably be good. And I don't want our decision to be rushed, and I don't care if the first guy they ask takes 24 hours to decide, or says no.

:2c:

[Purpleguy]

I think it's great Garrett left without signing on the dotted line.

We're going to end up with a new head coach. There are several qualified candidates, and there is a very good chance we will end up with one of them.

But the search itself is exciting, so let it go on for a few more days.

I don't know anything about Garrett, or Harbaugh, or any of the young guys, and apparently that's who the FO is looking at. Whoever we end up with, I don't know 0.1% of what Ozz & co. know about each of them. So let them do their work, find one of them who will take our money, and go from there.

There is danger in reading too much into Garrett walking away without signing. It's the same danger we see in other forms on this board all the time: people thinking there is a silver bullet solution to some problem, and failing that solution, we are on the brink of catastrophe.

We'll get somebody. He will probably be good. And I don't want our decision to be rushed, and I don't care if the first guy they ask takes 24 hours to decide, or says no.

:2c:

That all sounds good, but if you really have that much faith in Oz & co. then you should be very worried. Garrett was apparently far and away their #1 choice. I don't think they think half of these other candidates as they do Garrett.. That seems pretty obvious by the fact that they held a circus yesterday and are leaving the offer on the table indefinitely.

If guys like Harbaugh were a close second then I think Garrett would have been here for about 2 hours yesterday and Harbaugh would be hired right now.

[festivus]

That all sounds good, but if you really have that much faith in Oz & co. then you should be very worried. Garrett was apparently far and away their #1 choice. I don't think they think half of these other candidates as they do Garrett.. That seems pretty obvious by the fact that they held a circus yesterday and are leaving the offer on the table indefinitely.

If guys like Harbaugh were a close second then I think Garrett would have been here for about 2 hours yesterday and Harbaugh would be hired right now.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I referred to people looking for a silver bullet. I couldn't disagree more about how urgent it is we sign our "far and away" #1 choice right away. Better to engage in smart, fair negotiations, then rush in, "hot box" grown men, and grab the first guy who will say yes because you won't let him use the restroom until he signs.

We, and when I say "we," I mean "you," need to understand there is no one right answer, and no one right guy. We are not looking for someone who is unique and perfect, we are looking for someone who is good enough. And finding that person - there aren't many, but I assure you there are more than one - might take more then a week and a half, and the first candidate who is good enough might not even want the job, in which case we will move on.

It's a big country with lots of NFL people. Whoever our first choice is, assuming we don't get him, we'll get someone else.

[highwater]

festivus, I was right with you until this last paragraph --


We'll get somebody. He will probably be good. And I don't want our decision to be rushed, and I don't care if the first guy they ask takes 24 hours to decide, or says no.

Well, I don't want the decision to be rushed either, but if the first guy they ask says no, then how would that be good? Sometimes your second or even third choice can turn out to be better than your first choice, but as a general rule, I don't think it would be a positive development when your first choice says "no thanks."

[festivus]

I agree it's best if the first guy says yes. But less then 'best' is still good enough for me, assuming they get someone who is a quality HC.

[Purpleguy]

I agree it's best if the first guy says yes. But less then 'best' is still good enough for me, assuming they get someone who is a quality HC.

Apparenttlly less than best isn't good enough for that FO that you have so much faith in. They have and continue to pull out all the stops for their #1 choice.

[festivus]

Apparenttlly less than best isn't good enough for that FO that you have so much faith in. They have and continue to pull out all the stops for their #1 choice.

The only thing I've read and heard is that they made an offer, and Garrett left town without accepting it.

You and others are assuming he rejected the offer, which may be the case. I'll play along and assume he is, even though as far as I know it's still on the table.

Do you have anything to add to that? What do you mean by "pull out all the stops"? Do you mean anything other then, they had him at team HQ and treated him nicely for a day?

Because I don't see the reason for hysteria, I really don't.

[jonboy79]

Such as?


Bisciotti told us in that weird press conference that is exactly what happened. He woke up that Sunday with a "gut feeling" to fire him.

.

Such as... All that can be done with McNoodle until Jne 1st is a cut in salary. Maybe he will take Vet Min to stick around, or else he can exit styage left on June 2nd.

JO has played his last game in purple. He doesn't want to show up to camp, or play for the first month or two, and then even if he does play he'll give a mediocre effort so that he's not even the best option anyway. trongly encourage him to repay some Bonus back as part of a requirement for a job to help coach the OL for a decade or so. He won't have to show up to camp or practice or anything, just pay bonus back.

There must be something doen with Ray. Either he must be traded, released, or extended. I'm for the extension, if reasonable myself.

I would approach Heap about a paycut and Reed about a restructure.

Suggs is a prime candidate for a VERY back loaded contract. His cap number does not need to be high. He is young enough to allow for a McGahee-esque contract.



So are you suggesting that for the let's say, 6 weeks prior to that mornign he was not vasiallting back and forth? LIek for the whole season he was confident in Billick and wanted him to come back, then BANG out of nowhere he is fired? Please. He went back and forth in his head for months, and then finally one day, he woke up and siad, if it's taking me this long then he has to go. IF he could stay I already would have convinced myself by now of that.

[B-more Ravor]

Wow, a lot of stuff here. :laugh:

Since I'm new to this topic, I'll touch on a couple of things:

1. While I agree that how yesterday turned out, doesn't look good, I think some are being a little too harsh (but that's just a matter of opinion and one's own perspective). That said, there's no doubt we made an offer. Whether it was rejected or they agreed to revisit it remains to be seen. It was "rejected" for yesterday since he left, but he may come back to them and agree. We won't be sure til he signs here or elsewhere.

I don't begrudge him for looking at all of his options - it's a big decision and it's nice to have options - but he's got to have a better understanding of the ramifications. It does make the Ravens look bad and he's got to know that will hurt his chances of coming back to the offer later (and, obviously, with the fan base as well). Perhaps, he got bad advice, but regardless, I think he needed to be more certain of what his choices and decisions were going to be before stepping into the fire.

2. According to Aaron Wilson, we offered him $2.5M/year and didn't move off of that figure. That's an offer (for those who say we didn't make an offer), but because we apparently didn't move off of that figure, it also tells me either (1) we were anticipating the Jerry Jones factor and didn't want to go too high until we had to (which may be what is happening now), or (2) they weren't going to go higher for a 1st time HC. All reports - at the time - had them really liking Harbaugh after his interview. They obviously preferred Garrett, but that doesn't mean they don't still find Harbaugh to be a good choice. Maybe I'm being too optimistic here, but this sort of reminds me of the 2003 draft, when they liked both Leftwich and Boller. They liked Leftwich more and tried to move up to get him, but they also liked Boller a lot too and weren't unhappy to end up with him (yeah, yeah, that's another discussion :069: ).

3. I don't think Billick was fired on a whim. They apparently had had many discussions about his fate. The decision was made to retain him, but Bisciotti changed his mind. While the decision was a quick turn around, that doesn't mean that it was done for no reason or without thought. I think it was pretty clear that Billick's fate was something that Bisciotti struggled with for a long time, especially given their friendship. I like Billick a lot and have always supported him. I would have liked for him to get another year, but I can understand the reasons why the move was made.

4. For those saying that the Ravens haven't set the market, you are dead wrong. Ray, JO, CMac, Heap and Reed all got top of the market deals. They've also given out other deals that were perhaps a bit too generous - McCrary, Boulware, McGahee, McNair, even Pryce. At least with McGahee, he got it in his mind 20s, not late 20s-early 30s. The 3 year difference between a deal at 25 and 28 is huge when it comes to the player being able to play out that contract.

5. The present cap predictament comes mostly because they have aging stars who grew up here - Ray, JO, CMac - plus aging FA signings - Rolle, Mason, McNair, Pryce. Unfortunately, both groups are aging at the same time. I really don't have too much of a problem with the first group - since they are homegrown and have been productive for a long time - but had they been able to develop a young CB, WR, QB and/or DE, they wouldn't have had to go out and sign aging veterans FAs to deals like that (although Mason's isn't that bad). Now, as the injuries or lack of performance mount, those deals aren't looking too good. Again, it's the difference between signing a guy in his mid-20s versus later.

6. Lastly, much of this will be long gone in a month or so. We'll have our new HC and we'll be talking about FAs and the draft. I want them to get Garrett because he is their 1st choice, but I do think they think highly of Harbaugh as well. Both are very young, but (present circumstances aside for Garrett) I do think they both have plenty to offer.

PS: Sorry for the book. I really didn't intent to write so much. :D

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Wow, a lot of stuff here. :laugh:

Since I'm new to this topic, I'll touch on a couple of things:

1. While I agree that how yesterday turned out, doesn't look good, I think some are being a little too harsh (but that's just a matter of opinion and one's own perspective). That said, there's no doubt we made an offer. Whether it was rejected or they agreed to revisit it remains to be seen. It was "rejected" for yesterday since he left, but he may come back to them and agree. We won't be sure til he signs here or elsewhere.

I don't begrudge him for looking at all of his options - it's a big decision and it's nice to have options - but he's got to have a better understanding of the ramifications. It does make the Ravens look bad and he's got to know that will hurt his chances of coming back to the offer later (and, obviously, with the fan base as well). Perhaps, he got bad advice, but regardless, I think he needed to be more certain of what his choices and decisions were going to be before stepping into the fire.

2. According to Aaron Wilson, we offered him $2.5M/year and didn't move off of that figure. That's an offer (for those who say we didn't make an offer), but because we apparently didn't move off of that figure, it also tells me either (1) we were anticipating the Jerry Jones factor and didn't want to go too high until we had to (which may be what is happening now), or (2) they weren't going to go higher for a 1st time HC. All reports - at the time - had them really liking Harbaugh after his interview. They obviously preferred Garrett, but that doesn't mean they don't still find Harbaugh to be a good choice. Maybe I'm being too optimistic here, but this sort of reminds me of the 2003 draft, when they liked both Leftwich and Boller. They liked Leftwich more and tried to move up to get him, but they also liked Boller a lot too and weren't unhappy to end up with him (yeah, yeah, that's another discussion :069: ).

3. For those saying that the Ravens haven't set the market, you are dead wrong. Ray, JO, CMac, Heap and Reed all got top of the market deals. They've also given out other deals that were perhaps a bit too generous - McCrary, Boulware, McGahee, McNair, even Pryce. At least with McGahee, he got it in his mind 20s, not late 20s-early 30s. The 3 year difference between a deal at 25 and 28 is huge when it comes to the player being able to play out that contract.

4. The present cap predictament comes mostly because they have aging stars who grew up here - Ray, JO, CMac - plus aging FA signings - Rolle, Mason, McNair, Pryce. Unfortunately, both groups are aging at the same time. I really don't have too much of a problem with the first group - since they are homegrown and have been productive for a long time - but had they been able to develop a young CB, WR, QB and/or DE, they wouldn't have had to go out and sign aging veterans FAs to deals like that (although Mason's isn't that bad). Now, as the injuries or lack of performance mount, those deals aren't looking too good. Again, it's the difference between signing a guy in his mid-20s versus later.

5. Lastly, much of this will be long gone in a month or so. We'll have our new HC and we'll be talking about FAs and the draft. I want them to get Garrett because he is their 1st choice, but I do think they think highly of Harbaugh as well. Both are very young, but (present circumstances aside for Garrett) I do think they both have plenty to offer.

Ravor, where the hell have you been? Good to see you back.

I pretty much agree with just about everything you said. I don't like what happened yesterday and into today, but it is what it is.

Good post.

[purplepoe]

So are you suggesting that for the let's say, 6 weeks prior to that mornign he was not vasiallting back and forth? LIek for the whole season he was confident in Billick and wanted him to come back, then BANG out of nowhere he is fired? Please. He went back and forth in his head for months, and then finally one day, he woke up and siad, if it's taking me this long then he has to go. IF he could stay I already would have convinced myself by now of that.

Talk about assumptions.

Sheesh.

Both sides are making assumptions here.

That's the whole point. We're taking the information we do have and generating an opinion from the info.

PP

[camdenyard]

I was listening to the Sirius NFL radio this afternoon and the Eagles' PBP guy came on and literally GUSHED about Harbaugh. Anyone else hear that?

[purplepoe]

Wow, a lot of stuff here. :laugh:

Since I'm new to this topic, I'll touch on a couple of things:

1. While I agree that how yesterday turned out, doesn't look good, I think some are being a little too harsh (but that's just a matter of opinion and one's own perspective). That said, there's no doubt we made an offer. Whether it was rejected or they agreed to revisit it remains to be seen. It was "rejected" for yesterday since he left, but he may come back to them and agree. We won't be sure til he signs here or elsewhere.

I don't begrudge him for looking at all of his options - it's a big decision and it's nice to have options - but he's got to have a better understanding of the ramifications. It does make the Ravens look bad and he's got to know that will hurt his chances of coming back to the offer later (and, obviously, with the fan base as well). Perhaps, he got bad advice, but regardless, I think he needed to be more certain of what his choices and decisions were going to be before stepping into the fire.

2. According to Aaron Wilson, we offered him $2.5M/year and didn't move off of that figure. That's an offer (for those who say we didn't make an offer), but because we apparently didn't move off of that figure, it also tells me either (1) we were anticipating the Jerry Jones factor and didn't want to go too high until we had to (which may be what is happening now), or (2) they weren't going to go higher for a 1st time HC. All reports - at the time - had them really liking Harbaugh after his interview. They obviously preferred Garrett, but that doesn't mean they don't still find Harbaugh to be a good choice. Maybe I'm being too optimistic here, but this sort of reminds me of the 2003 draft, when they liked both Leftwich and Boller. They liked Leftwich more and tried to move up to get him, but they also liked Boller a lot too and weren't unhappy to end up with him (yeah, yeah, that's another discussion :069: ).

3. I don't think Billick was fired on a whim. They apparently had had many discussions about his fate. The decision was made to retain him, but Bisciotti changed his mind. While the decision was a quick turn around, that doesn't mean that it was done for no reason or without thought. I think it was pretty clear that Billick's fate was something that Bisciotti struggled with for a long time, especially given their friendship. I like Billick a lot and have always supported him. I would have liked for him to get another year, but I can understand the reasons why the move was made.

4. For those saying that the Ravens haven't set the market, you are dead wrong. Ray, JO, CMac, Heap and Reed all got top of the market deals. They've also given out other deals that were perhaps a bit too generous - McCrary, Boulware, McGahee, McNair, even Pryce. At least with McGahee, he got it in his mind 20s, not late 20s-early 30s. The 3 year difference between a deal at 25 and 28 is huge when it comes to the player being able to play out that contract.

5. The present cap predictament comes mostly because they have aging stars who grew up here - Ray, JO, CMac - plus aging FA signings - Rolle, Mason, McNair, Pryce. Unfortunately, both groups are aging at the same time. I really don't have too much of a problem with the first group - since they are homegrown and have been productive for a long time - but had they been able to develop a young CB, WR, QB and/or DE, they wouldn't have had to go out and sign aging veterans FAs to deals like that (although Mason's isn't that bad). Now, as the injuries or lack of performance mount, those deals aren't looking too good. Again, it's the difference between signing a guy in his mid-20s versus later.

6. Lastly, much of this will be long gone in a month or so. We'll have our new HC and we'll be talking about FAs and the draft. I want them to get Garrett because he is their 1st choice, but I do think they think highly of Harbaugh as well. Both are very young, but (present circumstances aside for Garrett) I do think they both have plenty to offer.

I second RIW's notion.

We need more post likes yours on this board.

PP

[B-more Ravor]

Thanks guys. Good to see you all again.

Since the exodus from the RI board I've been mostly posting on The Sun's board and the RI VIP board (I rarely post on YBR). The information Aaron Wilson gives out on the VIP board is well worth the couple bucks a month it costs (especially at this time of year).

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I was listening to the Sirius NFL radio this afternoon and the Eagles' PBP guy came on and literally GUSHED about Harbaugh. Anyone else hear that?

I heard the EAgles beat writer on Anita's show and he absolutely gushed about Harbaugh too.

She also had 2 other guests discussing the Baltimore Job and Garrett.

The first guy...I can't remember his name...I think his first name was Chris and his last name sounded Italian. Anyway, this guy basically got on the radio and said that the Ravens Job was the least desirable (he apparently said so on Mike Tirico's show this morning). His argument basically was based on the fact that this is a "old" team and we are closer to the 5-11 than 13-3 team. In essence, Besides Washington (whose roster he likes better), we will have the highest expectations of the jobs that are open...a coach supposedly will get a pass for being bad for 2-3 years but here he would be expected to win early. He then went on this thing about how "old" our OL is...basing his entire view of the OL on the fact that JO is old. AS for Garrett, he doesn't like Garrett at all but really liked the Giants D coordinator...I forgot his name...and guess who...Mike Singletary.

Next, they had Sal Palantonio on and he absolutely RIPPED Garrett for not taking the job if it was indeed offer. He called this one of the best franchises in sports (One of the "Tiffany franchises in football) with a GM who is one of the best in history...not just current, but history, a non meddling owner with a ton of money who desperately wants to win and a city that is football crazy . Sal emphatically...and I mean emphatically as if he were personally offended...stated he would pull that offer to Garrett ASAP. I mean, you would have though Bisciotti was on the phone himself. Sal doesn't like Garrett either and ripped him for his inexperience...not only with this dog and pony show here, but with his actual coaching experience. He too really liked the Giants D coordinator.

I just thought those 2 completely different views were very interesting...the only constant was that both didn't think much of Garrett.

[Rayvens52]

I heard the EAgles beat writer on Anita's show and he absolutely gushed about Harbaugh too.

She also had 2 other guests discussing the Baltimore Job and Garrett.

The first guy...I can't remember his name...I think his first name was Chris and his last name sounded Italian. Anyway, this guy basically got on the radio and said that the Ravens Job was the least desirable (he apparently said so on Mike Tirico's show this morning). His argument basically was based on the fact that this is a "old" team and we are closer to the 5-11 than 13-3 team. In essence, Besides Washington (whose roster he likes better), we will have the highest expectations of the jobs that are open...a coach supposedly will get a pass for being bad for 2-3 years but here he would be expected to win early. He then went on this thing about how "old" our OL is...basing his entire view of the OL on the fact that JO is old. AS for Garrett, he doesn't like Garrett at all but really liked the Giants D coordinator...I forgot his name...and guess who...Mike Singletary.

Next, they had Sal Palantonio on and he absolutely RIPPED Garrett for not taking the job if it was indeed offer. He called this one of the best franchises in sports (One of the "Tiffany franchises in football) with a GM who is one of the best in history...not just current, but history, a non meddling owner with a ton of money who desperately wants to win and a city that is football crazy . Sal emphatically...and I mean emphatically as if he were personally offended...stated he would pull that offer to Garrett ASAP. I mean, you would have though Bisciotti was on the phone himself. Sal doesn't like Garrett either and ripped him for his inexperience...not only with this dog and pony show here, but with his actual coaching experience. He too really liked the Giants D coordinator.

I just thought those 2 completely different views were very interesting...the only constant was that both didn't think much of Garrett.


it was the same on PTI today, they both agreed this is a top notch place, and the best available opening in the league. they said you would be crazy to pass on this as there are only 32 of these openings and baltimore is a great place to land.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Well, the first guy thought we were the worst spot for a job.

[B-more Ravor]

I believe that was Eric Kasilias (sp?), who fills in for Mike Tirico on ESPN radio.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I believe that was Eric Kasilias (sp?), who fills in for Mike Tirico on ESPN radio.

Yup, that was him.

He thinks the fans here completely overate this team and a coach can deal easier with the crappy expectations in Atlanta rather than fans here who think this team is capable of winning 10 games.

[highwater]

Thanks guys. Good to see you all again.

And it's great to see you again, B-more. Don't be a stranger! Your insights are always appreciated and always have been, even going back to the "low grade trash" gang days. I'm sure you remember that, right?

[B-more Ravor]

And it's great to see you again, B-more. Don't be a stranger! Your insights are always appreciated and always have been, even going back to the "low grade trash" gang days. I'm sure you remember that, right?

Absolutely. That newsgroup was my initiation into message board lore. Must have been 1997 or so when I came aboard. Can't remember the name of the guy that gave us the "low grade trash" moniker?

I do remember Glenn Channell, God love him, telling us in the summer of 2000 - in depth as always ;) - that Courtney Brown was already as good as McCrary (even though Brown had yet to play a down in the NFL) and how the Browns D was almost as good as the Ravens. :insane: :rolling: :insane:

It's terrible to think of all the time I've wasted talking with you guys over the years. :insane: :D

[highwater]

Absolutely. That newsgroup was my initiation into message board lore. Must have been 1997 or so when I came aboard. Can't remember the name of the guy that gave us the "low grade trash" moniker?

He went by several names, which were very transparent to us, but I think his real name was Stephen . . . I'm blanking on his last name. But he sure was entertaining in a psychotic sort of way. I still remember the time he suggested that slitting our throats would be a good idea.


I do remember Glenn Channell, God love him, telling us in the summer of 2000 - in depth as always ;) - that Courtney Brown was already as good as McCrary (even though Brown had yet to play a down in the NFL) and how the Browns D was almost as good as the Ravens.

LOL, Glenn Channell, he was a trip too. He was the king of rationalizations. He could convince himself of anything anti-Ravens, and then try to convince us too ("What you fans don't realize . . . "). He took pompous to a new level.

Oh, those were the days all right.

[Rex Thunder]

Really, who is begging to come here?

Look, it is one thing we didn't hire the guy, it is a whole nother issue that we wanted him and he passed. That leaves a stink floating around the league.

As for the business decision, do you think Bisciotti, who apparently was the guy frothing at the mouth for Garrett, left money on the table? You can be assured he went full balls after the guy.

This isn't a business decision, it is a "Where do I want to work" decision and he just said "No thanks."

That doesn't bode well for the Ravens.

And frankly, if the guy is that wishy-washy we should pass. If he calls tomorrow to take the deal I would hang up on him. Did you come here looking for a job or window shopping like some chick on a nice spring day on 5th avenue?

I guess you're the kind of guy that jumps at the first offer from a used car salesman too. Give me a break man! The guy is weighing his options. I'm sure Baltimore wasn't a place where he always dreamed of being... but it is a head coaching job.

If you were searching for a city to build a home with your family- and you had 3-4 different places to choose from- would you JUMP at the first one to offer you the job? If you would than you're a moron. Plain and simple. I'm so tired of every sports fan jumping the gun whent hings don't happen in the way they want or by the timeline they set. It's a joke.

Let the man do the rounds. Let him talk to his wife about it. Let him make an informed decision- not an emotional, rushed one. Jeez!

and ps- any baltimore fan who dares call us the new cleveland browns- i hope u r never sitting near me at a game

[Raineman]

As far as Garrett goes, everyone has seen the clip of him leaving Winning Dr. with him all smiles and such.

But did anyone notice his wife in that clip? She sure as heck looked like she was ready to get the hell out of here.

and I beleive the Erik Kasilius quote was something like, "the Ravens fanbase thinks they are a 9 when they are really about a 6 1/2" or something like that. Not sure if he was talking about us or the team, but he seems to be one of the few who thinks we are NOT the "belle of the ball".

As far as Greg's original point, the "handling" of this whole matter does project an impulsive and "amatuer" scene here, IMO.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

On Anita's show...that night, did anybody catch McAlister and Wilcox on the show?

I had comletely forgot about it until I heard Drew talk to a caller about it this morning.

Basically, Chris and Wilcox went on the air and talked about how unhappy they would be if the coach made them come in early in March to have them learn the systems and such as it would cut his offseason. Anita was like Chris...don't you want to learn what you need to learn so you can win? And Chris was like I know how to play football, just give me the playbook and I'll study.

They went on about how this is such a veteran team and they don't need to be babied...blah, blah blah....we are grown men, you only need to baby the young guys...blah blah blah.

It was pretty sickening to hear and just goes to show how these players think they run the show.

The players here for the most part couldn't wait for Brian to go and now they want another coach to "treat them like men" so they can do what they want.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Nester is normally annoying, goes overboard with his opinions and whines way too much for my taste, but his blog (http://wnst.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryID/4425/Default.aspx) on the wnst site is dead on this morning.

[The Fanatic]

If you were searching for a city to build a home with your family- and you had 3-4 different places to choose from- would you JUMP at the first one to offer you the job?


If I was a computer programmer, doctor, fireman, etc. where there were a multitude (1000s) of opportunitys available on almost a yearly basis, then yes, I would more then most likely weigh my options.
That is how the majority of the real world works.

We are not talking about the real world here though.

He basically had 3 options to choose from.

Two of the options were to advance and be promoted which is what 99.9% of coaches on any level are looking to do in life.
Rarely if ever have I heard a coach in the NFL ever utter that they didn't want to be a head coach unless they thought they weren't ready.

If you think you're not ready, then you say so the way the guy in New England did, and the way Gary Kubiak did in Denver for several years.

That blog by Nestor is spot on IMo as well.

There is a certain way the NFL works when it comes to this stuff, and Garrett strayed away from that when he walked out on interview #2 without taking the job.

That in itself is a red flag to me, and the fact that it isn't a red flag to our front office is disturbing as well.

I don't know if we're in as bad of shape as the Browns were in the early years once reincarnated back in '99 up until this year, but we aren't far off in many peoples eyes regarding the amount of issues we have here.

The more this goes on, the more I don't like the idea of hiring Garrett.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

If I was a computer programmer, doctor, fireman, etc. where there were a multitude (1000s) of opportunitys available on almost a yearly basis, then yes, I would more then most likely weigh my options.
That is how the majority of the real world works.

We are not talking about the real world here though.

He basically had 3 options to choose from.

Two of the options were to advance and be promoted which is what 99.9% of coaches on any level are looking to do in life.
Rarely if ever have I heard a coach in the NFL ever utter that they didn't want to be a head coach unless they thought they weren't ready.

If you think you're not ready, then you say so the way the guy in New England did, and the way Gary Kubiak did in Denver for several years.

That blog by Nestor is spot on IMo as well.

There is a certain way the NFL works when it comes to this stuff, and Garrett strayed away from that when he walked out on interview #2 without taking the job.

That in itself is a red flag to me, and the fact that it isn't a red flag to our front office is disturbing as well.

I don't know if we're in as bad of shape as the Browns were in the early years once reincarnated back in '99 up until this year, but we aren't far off in many peoples eyes regarding the amount of issues we have here.

The more this goes on, the more I don't like the idea of hiring Garrett.

OMG...BINGO!

Fanatic, I couldn't have said it better myself.

People have been trying to compare this to a "normal real world" job hunt.

It's not and never will be.

And this uprooting his family thing...As if his wife is blindsided by the fact that she is married to a member of the NFL...like she never knew what he would have to pick up and move with him...she dealt with it when he was a player as well as his couple years as a coach. All of a sudden it's a big deal that they will have to move? He has been in Dallas for 1 year out of the past 7 years and has moved at least 4 times since his last days as a Dallas QB.

Some of us have been saying this ever since Monday evening...it just doesn't smell right.

[Greg]

Okay, so I guess I went overboard a bit.


Next, they had Sal Palantonio on and he absolutely RIPPED Garrett for not taking the job if it was indeed offer. He called this one of the best franchises in sports (One of the "Tiffany franchises in football) with a GM who is one of the best in history...not just current, but history, a non meddling owner with a ton of money who desperately wants to win and a city that is football crazy . Sal emphatically...and I mean emphatically as if he were personally offended...stated he would pull that offer to Garrett ASAP. I mean, you would have though Bisciotti was on the phone himself. Sal doesn't like Garrett either and ripped him for his inexperience...not only with this dog and pony show here, but with his actual coaching experience. He too really liked the Giants D coordinator.
Upon reading this I should assume Garrett is a screwball who doesn't have the sack to pull the trigger and take on this challenge. DONE!

Okay, then when this waffler without a set couldn't say yes then we should have set "Thanks, but nevermind, we want a decisive leader, not a wishy-washy technical guru."

Onto Harbaugh, if this guy has a sack, hire him.

[The Fanatic]

Okay, then when this waffler without a set couldn't say yes then we should have set "Thanks, but nevermind, we want a decisive leader, not a wishy-washy technical guru."

This has been my stance on this dude all along!!

Harbaugh or whoever it ends up being better be walking into the building demanding he ain't leaving without this job.

That is the attitude you need to be an NFL head coach IMO.

[Greg]

And that is the attitude this locker room will need. A no-nonsense, I am the HMFIC type who will not let the egos rule the roost.

[Sephy]

And I think they get it with Harbaugh. Just get him in here and get it going!

[Raineman]

Get Harbaugh here and clean the other part of the house...you know.....the kids' room.

[Raving Hokie]

I agree with a mix of views here...I think there were a few keys that lead to Garrett's decision. I don't think the overall, league-wide view of the franchise (which I do believe is still as a top 10 franchise) played a part in him not coming here, thats mainly due to the fact that right before he declined, it was brought out that the decision was down to us and Dallas, leaving the definitely floundering Falcons out of it.

The things I think played a major role:
-First and foremost, Jerry Jones. This is not the first time in recent years he has kept coordinators from leaving by drastic measures (involving money mostly). Garrett is taking a big pay raise to do the same job he did this year. I know there are views that everyone wants to be a HC, but in reality...if someone offered you a huge raise to do the same job, or the same amount of money to do a more demanding job, which would you take?
-The whole indecisive thing. This more or less like most people here make me like him less as a candidate. I think he had second thoughts about becoming a HC and I don't think he had the desire to do it.
-He won multiple Super Bowl rings with the Cowboys...can't blame him for having a bit of loyalty to them.
-Becoming the HC of the Dallas Cowboys. Apparently, he is being promised this position in the next couple years. I do honestly believe that we are one of the top 10 franchises in this league, but the Cowboys are America's media darling franchise since the 90s, and it is definitely up there in terms of profile of the position.

Lets face it, he chose them over us. Big deal, it happens. I agree to get Harbaugh. From people I know in Philly, they say he is a great coach and they all think he will fit well as a HC.