Would you make either of these trades?

[TheExtraPoint]

Terrell Suggs for Chad Johnson?

Terrell Suggs for Javon Walker and a second-round pick?

Presumably, we could franchise Suggs and shop him. I believe he could easily recover a first round pick or an extremely talented player-pick package.

He'd be heavily-coveted in this market.

He's an extremely young first-time free agent, with a pro-Bowl resume` at a position in high-demand in the NFL. But in my view, he's a piece that helps a contender win, not a player you build a defense around. I'd franchise him, protect my asset, and then shop him with the approach that we don't HAVE to trade him, but would for the right deal. I especially think CJ for Suggs is a deal either team would be crazy not to at least consider.

[xmradiodave]

...I especially think CJ for Suggs is a deal either team would be crazy not to at least consider.

:iagree:

[4G63]

I'd love to have Chad Johnson! Ray and Co. could keep him in check and he'll give Troy Smith a deep threat. T-Sizzle just simmers IMO.....

[jonboy79]

Yeah, I would probably make either of those trades. It'd be easier to hit on a Vernon Gholsten or Calais Campbell at 8, have no loss on defense, and a gain on offense then hit on an offensive player at that same spot. That said, I may still get Matt Ryan at 8 and look for a DE later still...

All of this still depends on whetehr we play 4-3 or 3-4, cause i could see us moving to a 4-3 where shipping Suggs could be a good idea.

[purplepoe]

Chad Johnson?

We need ANOTHER huge ego that's out of control on this team?

No thanks.

Not a chance.

And Walker?

Yikes.

PP

[RavensNTerps]

It's official, we're now Orioles Hangout.

[4G63]

Chad Johnson?

We need ANOTHER huge ego that's out of control on this team?

No thanks.

Not a chance.

And Walker?

Yikes.

PP

Neither trade is going to happen anyway, so this is just fun talk......

Honestly, Chad could be a real bitch if he came here. One of the best QB's in the league throws to him every game and he would definitely cry if Boller underthrew to him on a regular basis....

[purplepoe]

Neither trade is going to happen anyway, so this is just fun talk......

Honestly, Chad could be a real bitch if he came here. One of the best QB's in the league throws to him every game and he would definitely cry if Boller underthrew to him on a regular basis....

He's a bitch and he gets the ball thrown to him all the time in Cincy.

No thanks.

There's a reason Cincy has been rumored to trying to deal him. You don't trade a talent like that when he's in his prime unless there are some big time problems with him within the lockerroom and/or off the field.

I get sick when our players celebrate like they do now, especially when we are losing. I can't imagine how angry I'd be watching Johnson act like an even bigger buffoon than what we've seen here. I still remember seeing him pull his "im a camera man" stunt this year after his first TD catch in what, 6 games?

PP

[ravenwoman]

NO, and the Ravens would never consider it for a minute. Have you ever heard Eric DeCosta give a radio interview around the time of the draft?

One of the things the Ravens consider before bringing any player on the team (either through draft or free agency) is the character of the player. They were burnt on the T.O. deal and as Eric DeCosta would say "We don't need any knuckleheads."

Also, don't look for any player movement until a head coach is hired.

[TheExtraPoint]

Chad Johnson?

We need ANOTHER huge ego that's out of control on this team?

No thanks.

Not a chance.

And Walker?

Yikes.

PP

That would be sound logic, BUT...

We wouldn't have ANOTHER huge ego that's out of control on this team. We'd have the same number if we were trading Suggs away.

The reality of the world is that that NFL is a business, and in that business, you protect your assets. So the options with Suggs are as follows (as I see them).

1. Franchise him, seek a long-term deal:

Sure, this is all well and good, but in a precarious cap position and on a team I believe isn't close, committing top-5 average salary in one season or multiple years at big cap numbers to a player that probably performed at a top 100 level isn't wise. And while you're wary of bringing in a player you consider to have an ego, I think we're also shipping one out. Suggs is not a disciplined football player - and if reports of wanting a Dwight Freeney type contract are true, he's got a lot more ego than I think you're giving him credit for.

2. Let him walk:

I think there is some merit to this. Like I said, he's a very nice piece for a contender, but not a player you build a defense around. Considering we'd get a 2009 third-rounder in all likelihood in the compensatory pick dispersal, at a time when we're hopefully closer to being competitive, perhaps this isn't the worst idea in the world IF we can't...

3. Franchise, Seek to Trade him:

This is where my idea comes into play (the Orioles Hangout comment was cute, but I promise you the Ravens have at least discussed this same concept - what they decide to do perhaps is a different story).

As for Chad Johnson's ego - welcome to the NFL. Name me a big-time receiver that doesn't have ego issues in the NFL. Would you pass on Randy Moss? Would you pass on Terrell Owens? Steve Smith? Please.

We'd all love a player like Marvin Harrison to shake loose and come play for us. Productive, unassuming, quiet, and consistent. But players like that are rare in the modern NFL. Most receivers in this age bitch when they lose. Derrick Mason did it too folks.

As for the person throwing him the ball, Carson Palmer underperformed drastically this season. He's an overrated quarterback in my opinion, who never deserved to be mentioned in the class of Manning and Brady. Flame away on that one. I'm betting Chad probably bitches a lot less if his TEAM was successful. You don't hear a peep out of any of the guys I've mentioned when their teams are winning, even when they don't get the ball.

If you have any hope of improving an offense that has ranked in the mid-20's on average over the course of Brian Billick's tenure, you're going to probably opt to risk a little ego in the name of productivity. Unless your comfortable with the way things have been here.

WIN, and Chad Johnson is funny like Tony Siragusa and Shannon Sharpe were in 2000. Lose, and you're a loser, so what's the difference.

[purplepoe]

I think some of you are underestimating Johnson's ego.

It's certainly way bigger than Suggs' ego IMO.

I don't think either trade has a remote chance of even being discussed by the two teams but have it.

PP

[jonboy79]

I don't think either trade has a remote chance of even being discussed by the two teams but have it.

PP

I dunno If I'd say that. All 3 players will certainly have trade discussions around them, all three have been made available, and it appears that the 3 teams invovled SHOULD have mutual interest.

[purplepoe]

I dunno If I'd say that. All 3 players will certainly have trade discussions around them, all three have been made available, and it appears that the 3 teams invovled SHOULD have mutual interest.

You can name tons of players that fit criteria for a possible deal.

Doesn't mean they'll be discussed.

Again, Id be stunned if the Ravens entertain either of these offers.

JMO.

PP

[highwater]

I would like an ego or two on offense. I want a nasty O. Just like our nasty D.

Pass -- an ego is one thing, but this guy's a head case. A prima donna WR should not be high on our wish list.

[festivus]

Chad Johnson?

:grbac:

The Ravens are *really* top heavy with prima donna talent at the moment, and I don't think the organization would be doing itself any favors by trading in a level four prima donna for one that goes up to eleven.

No, thank you.

Now, Javon Walker and a 2. . . Hmm. . .

[AZRAVEN]

I would like an ego or two on offense. I want a nasty O. Just like our nasty D.

Depends on the type of "ego". A dose of nastiness on the offense would not be a bad thing. Chad Johnson, IMO, is just a buffoon. He's not as great as he thinks he is, again IMO. Better than what we have definitely as he can get seperation and make YAC which our current crop of WR's, excluding Williams, don't seem to do that well. His antics turn me off, most of the time I don't find them endearing or amusing or anything but annoying. His HOF jacket caper was a new low.
Besides, I think whether or not we'd want a showboat like Johnson will depend a lot on the type of HC Mr Whimsey hires. I think one of the reasons Cincy is wanting to move him is because Marvin has gotten tired of his show and apparently has been unable to rein him in.

[Mista T]

Yeah, sure, ri-i-i-i-i-i-ght ..... this thread makes a lot of sense: the Ravens biggest fall-off from 2006 to 2007 was the pass rush, and we should get rid of our only decent healthy pass rusher? :grbac:

:thumbdown:

[TheExtraPoint]

Yeah, sure, ri-i-i-i-i-i-ght ..... this thread makes a lot of sense: the Ravens biggest fall-off from 2006 to 2007 was the pass rush, and we should get rid of our only decent healthy pass rusher? :grbac:

:thumbdown:

This thread makes slightly more sense than your rationale for keeping him.

First of all, the Ravens biggest fall-off from last season to this season was turnover differential if you ask me. But this team fell off in almost every area, including health and good fortune. We've got holes-a-plenty and need to find efficient ways to plug them, not expensive ones. The pass-rush is one of those holes.

In my view, Suggs is replaceable. He notched a whopping 5 sacks this past season, and in turn you're looking at rewarding him (if franchised) with a contract that would pay him about $2million for each of those sacks. Talk about a great bang for your buck... :grbac: If you want to commit that type of money to a player you yourself referred to as decent, be my guest. Commit to him long-term, and you can count on his contract crippling the Ravens financially now and in the future. He's not coming cheap however you chose to retain him.

Now do I think Suggs is a five sack per 16 game player? No. Clearly he's a talented football player who has developed into a more complete player than he was entering the league. But by the same token, there is nothing he does that can't be duplicated by Antwan Barnes (a guy I think will be special in this league), for example. Or a rookie draft pick if he's going to total single-digit sacks regularly like he has the last three seasons. He doesn't beat double-teams with any regularity. He hasn't developed an arsenal of pass-rush moves. He's not a GREAT player. He's a GOOD player at a position in heavy demand.

The Ravens are a linebacker factory... lump Suggs in with Lewis, Boulware, Sharper, Hartwell, Thomas, Scott, with Barnes and Burgess on the way. Though he's probably been less productive as a player than most of them. He hasn't cracked 10 sacks mark since 2004, for starters. He probably would not find the success elsewhere that he had here, like those that have left before him have found out.

Look - I threw this thread out there to get people's opinions on the trade, not to belittle Suggs' ability. The guy is going to be an extremely hot commodity around this league, regardless of whether or not I think he's worth it. In fact, that's the point. We control his destiny, and that's a good thing when you have something other teams' want.

The fact is, he doesn't make other players around him better. He's NOT the most valuable Ravens pass-rusher (that would be Trevor Pryce, and it isn't even close). And he's not even all that productive to begin with. If it was my money being spent, I'd consider Suggs worth more to my team in what he could return in a trade than what he would do for (and to) my team on the field and financially, especially on a team that in my view is not close to competing for a playoff spot, let alone a championship.

Don't like Chad or Javon for Suggs. That's fine. But this is an asset we should protect and make use of, either to add proven players or a few high draft picks. At least that's my take.

[Brandon]

My answer to that would be NO and NO.

We have enough malcontents on this team, we don't need another.

[purplepoe]

This thread makes slightly more sense than your rationale for keeping him.

First of all, the Ravens biggest fall-off from last season to this season was turnover differential if you ask me. But this team fell off in almost every area, including health and good fortune. We've got holes-a-plenty and need to find efficient ways to plug them, not expensive ones. The pass-rush is one of those holes.

In my view, Suggs is replaceable. He notched a whopping 5 sacks this past season, and in turn you're looking at rewarding him (if franchised) with a contract that would pay him about $2million for each of those sacks. Talk about a great bang for your buck... :grbac: If you want to commit that type of money to a player you yourself referred to as decent, be my guest. Commit to him long-term, and you can count on his contract crippling the Ravens financially now and in the future. He's not coming cheap however you chose to retain him.

Now do I think Suggs is a five sack per 16 game player? No. Clearly he's a talented football player who has developed into a more complete player than he was entering the league. But by the same token, there is nothing he does that can't be duplicated by Antwan Barnes (a guy I think will be special in this league), for example. Or a rookie draft pick if he's going to total single-digit sacks regularly like he has the last three seasons. He doesn't beat double-teams with any regularity. He hasn't developed an arsenal of pass-rush moves. He's not a GREAT player. He's a GOOD player at a position in heavy demand.

The Ravens are a linebacker factory... lump Suggs in with Lewis, Boulware, Sharper, Hartwell, Thomas, Scott, with Barnes and Burgess on the way. Though he's probably been less productive as a player than most of them. He hasn't cracked 10 sacks mark since 2004, for starters. He probably would not find the success elsewhere that he had here, like those that have left before him have found out.

Look - I threw this thread out there to get people's opinions on the trade, not to belittle Suggs' ability. The guy is going to be an extremely hot commodity around this league, regardless of whether or not I think he's worth it. In fact, that's the point. We control his destiny, and that's a good thing when you have something other teams' want.

The fact is, he doesn't make other players around him better. He's NOT the most valuable Ravens pass-rusher (that would be Trevor Pryce, and it isn't even close). And he's not even all that productive to begin with. If it was my money being spent, I'd consider Suggs worth more to my team in what he could return in a trade than what he would do for (and to) my team on the field and financially, especially on a team that in my view is not close to competing for a playoff spot, let alone a championship.

Don't like Chad or Javon for Suggs. That's fine. But this is an asset we should protect and make use of, either to add proven players or a few high draft picks. At least that's my take.

Couple of things.

I do think we as Ravens fans overvalue Suggs a bit. Just as many fans seem to overvalue alot of our players. Look at all the top paid DEs in the league and run their sack numbers to their pay. 10 sacks is a good year right?. Hell, Cincy franchised Justin Smith for the 2007 season and the guy had 2 sacks. Dwight Freeney signed his monster deal this past offseason coming off a 6 sack season. Don't get me wrong, Freeney is a stud. You can't just throw the number of sacks out there and let that dictate salary.

I think you are jumping a bit too quickly with Barnes. The guy has great burst of the LOS. But it's no sure thing he can develop into a 3 down player.

I agree that Pryce is our best pass rusher. But look his age and injury history. Can we really depend on him even next year let alone years after? Suggs won't be 26 until the middle of next season. Pryce will be 33 before week 1 of the 08 season. That's a huge difference.

And I don't like either of those trades one bit for numerous reasons.

PP

[flraven]

I like the Ravens' current group of receivers and as T pointed out, why get rid of a decent pass rusher?

Pass on Ocho Cinco.

[JimBone]

Yeah, sure, ri-i-i-i-i-i-ght ..... this thread makes a lot of sense: the Ravens biggest fall-off from 2006 to 2007 was the pass rush, and we should get rid of our only decent healthy pass rusher? :grbac:

:thumbdown:

I would say the pass rush is 1b and qb play is 1a in the biggest fall-off. That being said, how does decreasing our pass rush and bringing in a star wide receiver w/ no quarterback to get him the ball help us?

[UKRavenGordon]

Apparantly he's high on the Jets wish list if he hits FA. If we want to tag and trade him why not see if they're willing to part with their first or even their second rounder.

Imagine a new coach coming in and being given 2 top ten picks to build his team around.......hey I can dream can't I.

Pass rushers in the NFL are dime a dozen. An every down DE however aren't so easy to come by. If it's true that Barnes and Burgess are coming along nicely then why not trade him.

[ravens138]

I would not want to play Suggs two times a year.

Johnson way too much to baby sit all year.