If Billick gets fired, who do you want?

[psuasskicker]

Who's your staff?

Ryan at HC.
Henderson at DC.

Haven't figured out who I want on offense yet...

- C -

[RavenFanatic2k6]

Marty Schottenheimer

[GreenWave52]

Marty Schottenheimer

So we can lose in the playoffs? Marty is what he is, great in the regular season and a choker in the playoffs.

Billick coached his ass of last year and he is still a good coach. Even if we go 5-11 I still expect him to be here next year.

[The Fanatic]

Well since the topic has been brought up I'll throw a name out there.

Jim Schwartz (http://www.titansonline.com/team/coaches/staff.php?PRKey=3)

In no way would I bring in one of those re-treads like Shottenheimer or Parecells.
I would defenitely look at one of these younger type assistants with a good track record.

Schwartz has a baltimore backround with good history as you can see by his profile above.

Hell, I'd at least start with a guy that knows what down it is during the game.:hammer: :bag: :grbac:

[ravenwoman]

Get real people. Billick isn't going anywhere. He just signed a 4 year contract. The owner is not going to take a 20+ million dollar hit.

Billick will be here at least 3 more years.

[psuasskicker]

I heard an interesting name thrown out there...

Cowher

I think I could be alright with that.

- C -

[Greg]

Billick isn't going anywhere.

Let's not forget where this organization was in early 1999 when Billick came here.

[camdenyard]

Billick isn't going anywhere.

I agree. But I seriously think it's time to let Neuheisel take over play calling duties. He's killing us with his strategy. We should have run a hell of a lot more than we did, especially given how successful Willis was.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

So we can lose in the playoffs? Marty is what he is, great in the regular season and a choker in the playoffs.

Billick coached his ass of last year and he is still a good coach. Even if we go 5-11 I still expect him to be here next year.

Wasn't Bill Cowher called a choker in the playoffs until 2005?

[ClericBlackDave]

I agree. But I seriously think it's time to let Neuheisel take over play calling duties. He's killing us with his strategy. We should have run a hell of a lot more than we did, especially given how successful Willis was.

The issue isn't Billick. The issue is the QB running this system.

1) Billick going a bit heavy on the pass is what is opening it up for McGahee. Teams are actually not sure if a pass or run is coming. Amazing.

2) The issue is that, on the pass plays, we're passing for a minimal gain. McNair refuses to throw the ball to recievers running the longer routes.

How many times do I need to see him hold the ball for 5 seconds to throw the ball 7 yards.


Its tmie to put boller at the helm. Period.

[festivus]

Ooooh, Schwartz. What an interesting idea.

But Billlick isn't going anywhere, nor should he. Everyone please come back to planet Earth.

Sometimes good teams play badly. I am not as smart as some of you, I guess, who can penetrate the mysteries of coaching, which occurs mostly behind closed doors, by watching a few minutes of football on a Sunday afternoon. What I look for to gauge the quality of coaching is, how much is the coach getting out of the talent here on the field. And that's something that I won't try to answer on a game by game basis, but over a season, or a few seasons. When I look at the success we've had here with Billick as head coach, I am satisfied.

[Fanman]

I like the idea of Schwartz here.....great call there.

Billick is a MAJOR part of the problem...the extension to Billick was a HUGE mistake.

Billick can't manage the clock and can't call a game to save his life.
He is one of THE worst playcallers in the redzone in the league.

He also NEVER makes adjustments at halftime. There is NO question Boller should have been inserted in the 2nd half when they stalled in the redzone just before halftime.

Billick's days of skirting by on the SuperBowl win 6 years ago should be long gone...this guy is a joke.

And the money to Billick on the contract I doubt is guaranteed if he gets fired.

FM

[sailorsam]

Contract Extension? "What have you done for me lately?" if this team doesn't improve greatly I think there's no way BB stays. He was rewarded for 13-3, which was...last year. If there isn't a huge improvement on offense, I think he's gone.
and before annointing Rex as HC, remember how the D has gone south the last few weeks.
I DON'T want...a retread like Parcells (who will only stay 2 years anyway) or Marty. Maybe a younger retread (Jim Mora jr?).
traditionally, NFL Coordinators are the choices. Hmm...maybe Mike Martz? um...probably not.
college coaches? DON'T want Lou Saban (who's probably locked in at 'Bama for a while). I'd want Bobby Ross if he wasn't so old. I don't think Spurrier is interested in returning to the NFL (yet).
Ralph Friedgen..?

[b-more_4_Life]

Ooooh, Schwartz. What an interesting idea.

But Billlick isn't going anywhere, nor should he. Everyone please come back to planet Earth.



I've been a Billick supporter since day 1. But ever since the playoff game he hasnt had the Ravens ready to play. He's also thinks we are a passing team and has forgotten that you play Ravens football by running the ball. McNair threw 53 times yesterday with a bum groan. Meanwhile McGhee only carried for 14 times and still got over a 100 yds on one of the worst rush defenses in the league. He avg over 7 yds a carry. Its simple run the damn ball so that the hurting QB and hurting defense cannot hurt you. But Billick wants to be a offensive genius and is killing this season with his egotistical ways

[festivus]

I stand by my position that we as fans cannot see what's going on with the coaching on a game-by-game basis, and besides win/loss over time I don't know if there's *any* way to see how a coach is doing.

So I am reluctant to engage in this sort of MMQB 'we should have done x and not y', but I will try to respond to a couple of your points.

We were in a 14 point hole very early in the game. I would guess most head coaches in the league would tend to call more passing plays when playing from a significant hole. One, it slows down the clock, two, it is more likely to result in bigger plays.

I also reject your assertion that "you play Ravens football by running the ball." Over the last three or so years, the FO has engineered a change in personnel that plays to a *passing* game, with the acquisition of younger, smaller, more athletic offensive linemen, and the acquisition of McGahee, a pass catching RB. We are not who we were, it's that simple.

Concerning whether Billick has been 'coasting' or whatever on the coattails of the SB win in 2000. . . This team has *never* as long as Billick's been here been loaded with talent. Look at what happens to players when they leave here. They don't go other places and blossom, they go other places and disappear, with only a couple of notable exceptions - Priest Holmes, Adalius Thomas [edit - Derek Anderson, we will see]. After Bill Belicheck, I do not think there is another HC in the NFL who has gotten more done with less.

Remember to breathe and we can look at the job Billick did this year after the year is over.
:2c:

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Forgetting the fact that Billick isn't going anywhere...

I know Rex is going through something right now, but there is no question that I think he'd be a terrific HC...the players love him, he works hard, and he knows what he is doing out there.

He'd just have to hire a quality OC.

Rex is definately my first choice as HC...

[RAVENOUS52]

This Billick lynch mob needs to drop their torches and take a realistic look at things.

On Sunday our turnovers lead to 14 points for the opposing team. Ironically, the exact amount we lost by.

Matt Stover missed 2 field goals. (How often does THAT happen?)

The referees credited Jamal Lewis with a touchdown he didn't earn and then compounded their errant call by completely ignoring Billick's challenge flag.

None of our receivers other than McGahee seemed to be able to gain any YAC yesterday.

Steve McNair appeared to be playing under the influence of Vicodin for most of the game.

In short, Murphy's Law had it's way with us and it wasn't pretty.

Was that all Billick's fault or are some people overreacting?

[ravenjoe]

The problem is that BB does NOT have this team mentally ready to play, including last year's crippling playoff loss to Indy. He needs to kick this team in the ass, which is something he is reluctant to do. However, his pluses outweigh his minuses, and so I am in favor of keeping him.

[WxKevin]

I cannot believe this is even a topic. We are 4 games into the season and we are 2-2.

We really do need a "Chicken Little" icon.

[deuce]

Who's your staff?

Ryan at HC.
Henderson at DC.

Haven't figured out who I want on offense yet...

- C -

Are you leading the campaign against Joe Pa too since that overated team is 0-2 in conference and lost to freaking Illinois? Give it a rest.

[btownraven]

The problem is that BB does NOT have this team mentally ready to play, including last year's crippling playoff loss to Indy. He needs to kick this team in the ass, which is something he is reluctant to do.

I agree. The pattern with Billick is that he does a great job motivating the team when expectations are lower (99, 00, 02, 06). My concern is that he just does not seem to be able to motivate a team with high expectations ('04, '05, this year). This team is unfocused & undisciplined and that is the coach's responsibility.

I also agree with bmore4ever, we have to run the ball more. It makes no sense not to run on teams that can't stop the run. I know we were down early but we passed 5 times and ran twice on our opening drive down just 7.

I've been a big Billick supporter from the beginning but I'm starting to think it might be time for a change. His strength is motivation but, other than last year, the last few years we've seen an underachieving team. I'm afraid his message is getting old.

[52decleetzu]

I agree. The pattern with Billick is that he does a great job motivating the team when expectations are lower (99, 00, 02, 06). My concern is that he just does not seem to be able to motivate a team with high expectations ('04, '05, this year). This team is unfocused & undisciplined and that is the coach's responsibility.

I also agree with bmore4ever, we have to run the ball more. It makes no sense not to run on teams that can't stop the run. I know we were down early but we passed 5 times and ran twice on our opening drive down just 7.

I've been a big Billick supporter from the beginning but I'm starting to think it might be time for a change. His strength is motivation but, other than last year, the last few years we've seen an underachieving team. I'm afraid his message is getting old.

Yeah a "time for change" really has worked out in SD,maybe we can hire Norv when he gets fired in week 8 and the "most talented team in the NFL" is 2-6.:rolleyes:

[sailorsam]

[QUOTE=festivus;50197]We were in a 14 point hole very early in the game. I would guess most head coaches in the league would tend to call more passing plays when playing from a significant hole. One, it slows down the clock, two, it is more likely to result in bigger plays.

good point; I think the Ravens were worried the Brownies would put 30+ on the board and they'd have to score early & often to keep up.

[sailorsam]

I cannot believe this is even a topic. We are 4 games into the season and we are 2-2.

We really do need a "Chicken Little" icon.

true that; problem is the performance. One can say that the Ravens are only one blown call (the Heap td catch in the Bengals game) from being 3-1, but one can also say one more Kurt Warner drive (or if Stover misses the long fg) would have put the Ravens at 1-3.
regardless of record, no one can deny that the Defense is not performing as well as expected / as well as last year; and the Offense has taken a big step backwards.
does anyone think this team can win 10 games or more at this level of play?

[RAVENOUS52]

The defense is depleted at key positions right now and while it shouldn't be used as an excuse, it's reasonable to expect a lower level of overall performance with two marquee players (Rolle and Pryce) out for a few games.

Regardless, we have to put more pressure on the QB somehow.

And please, enough of this firing Billick banter so early in the season. We have 12 more cracks at making things right.

[b-more_4_Life]

Yeah a "time for change" really has worked out in SD,maybe we can hire Norv when he gets fired in week 8 and the "most talented team in the NFL" is 2-6.:rolleyes:

This is such a stupid statement that I cant believe I'm going to respond to it but I'll take the bait. You really believe that if the Ravens were to fire Billick that they would hire someone who has failed miserably everywhere he has been!

You must not have much confidence that Ozzie and Co. can find a better replacement for Billick. This team lacks discipline and focus; just look at our penalties this year. A coach like Cowher is exactly what the Ravens need at this point.

[Rochardrik]

I heard an interesting name thrown out there...

Cowher

I think I could be alright with that.

- C -

Quoth The Raven "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.... more":rolleyes:

[festivus]

b-more, I don't think he was serious. :)

[Rochardrik]

This is such a stupid statement that I cant believe I'm going to respond to it but I'll take the bait. You really believe that if the Ravens were to fire Billick that they would hire someone who has failed miserably everywhere he has been!

You must not have much confidence that Ozzie and Co. can find a better replacement for Billick. This team lacks discipline and focus; just look at our penalties this year. A coach like Cowher is exactly what the Ravens need at this point.

Did you see the sarcastic icon after the statement? It was obviously meant to be a tongue-in-cheek comment! And PLEASE, NO COWTURD!!!! How embarrassing!! Spittle all over the sidelines? Steely's model? Man, I would just croak!

[Fanman]

this thread is not about being 2-2 in 2007. It's about a coach that can't run an effective offense at the NFL level...and that has been the case SINCE HE GOT HERE. If you want to keep BB as the head coach fine, but please get somebody else to run the offense and call the plays on gameday b/c after 8 years it's QUITE clear Billick can't do it.

Does it take the team going 7-9 again and missing the playoffs to make this clear? The playoff loss to Indy last year...at home, after a bye week made it crystal clear to many people...talk about taking defeat from the jaws of victory. Man...wake up and take off the purple glasses.



FM

[festivus]

No, Fanman, it would take another eight years of (mostly) winning football, with one losing season and one 8-8 season, and multiple playoff appearances including one Super Bowl victory. At that point I will be so furious I will demand he be fired.

[52decleetzu]

b-more, I don't think he was serious. :)


I dont think he was either:rolleyes: ,but was just trying to prove the point that the grass isnt always greener on the other side.

[UKRavenStockers]

Billick ain't going anywhere but just for the record I've always liked the idea of Kirk Ferentz coming back to Baltimore and also would back Schwartz as mentioned earlier.

But let's be real, as has been mentioned, Billick is going nowhere.

[52decleetzu]

So our long list of candidates is....

Bill Cowher
Kirk Ferentz and
Jim Schwartz.

Fabulous.

[Fanman]

This team hasn't won a playoff game since 2001, the last 2 losses coming at home mind you...and since 2001 has agruably had the best defense in the NFL....to me that is not success.

Sorry...I expect more from a team that has an elite defense. If our def was average or sucked during that time I would think differently. Has Bellichik had as many probowlers as the Ravens since 2000...I bet not? He has a stud QB and a bunch of role players....and makes the playoffs almost every year. Billick is so over rated it's scary.


FM

[UKRavenStockers]

This team hasn't won a playoff game since 2001, the last 2 losses coming at home mind you...and since 2001 has agruably had the best defense in the NFL....to me that is not success.

Sorry...I expect more from a team that has an elite defense. If our def was average or sucked during that time I would think differently. Has Bellichik had as many probowlers as the Ravens since 2000...I bet not? He has a stud QB and a bunch of role players....and makes the playoffs almost every year. Billick is so over rated it's scary.


FM

Stud QB is kinda useful.

Tremendous unit on the O-line kinda helps too, very underrated talent on that line too with the likes of Dan Koppen.

On D they have an absolutely ridiculous defensive line with Warren, Seymour and Wilfork, for my money the best three man line in the league.

Then you've got the likes of Vrabel, Bruschi, Colvin, Thomas at LB.

They're hardly short of talent up in Foxboro.

[52decleetzu]

This team hasn't won a playoff game since 2001, the last 2 losses coming at home mind you...and since 2001 has agruably had the best defense in the NFL....to me that is not success.

Sorry...I expect more from a team that has an elite defense. If our def was average or sucked during that time I would think differently. Has Bellichik had as many probowlers as the Ravens since 2000...I bet not? He has a stud QB and a bunch of role players....and makes the playoffs almost every year. Billick is so over rated it's scary.


FM

Ravens have the best record since 2000 with Billick at the helm......O-VER -RATED!

[festivus]

Right. Credit for the defense of course goes to the defensive coordinator we've had here the entire time. What's his name? Oh yeah.

Marvin Lewnolyan. He gets all the credit for the team's success.

We have had years where offense was hard to come by. We have had years plagued by the injury bug, or even tarnished by the can't-play-cuz-in-jail bug. But under Billick we have been blessed with competitive football every year he's been here, and some years more then competitive.

I'm not saying he's above reproach. I'm just saying the team has been successful enough in his time here that the calls for his head, after the first quarter of the season, sound foolish. At least to me.

:2c:

[52decleetzu]

Right. Credit for the defense of course goes to the defensive coordinator we've had here the entire time. What's his name? Oh yeah.

Marvin Lewnolyan. He gets all the credit for the team's success.

We have had years where offense was hard to come by. We have had years plagued by the injury bug, or even tarnished by the can't-play-cuz-in-jail bug. But under Billick we have been blessed with competitive football every year he's been here, and some years more then competitive.

I'm not saying he's above reproach. I'm just saying the team has been successful enough in his time here that the calls for his head, after the first quarter of the season, sound foolish. At least to me.

:2c:

It should sound foolish to anyone with half a brian.......but I digress.

[purplepoe]

The issue isn't Billick. The issue is the QB running this system.

1) Billick going a bit heavy on the pass is what is opening it up for McGahee. Teams are actually not sure if a pass or run is coming. Amazing.

2) The issue is that, on the pass plays, we're passing for a minimal gain. McNair refuses to throw the ball to recievers running the longer routes.

How many times do I need to see him hold the ball for 5 seconds to throw the ball 7 yards.


Its tmie to put boller at the helm. Period.

Hey Mods, can we please have this stuff taken to the QB forum?

For all the grief Tex gets, CBD is doing the same thing.

And by the way, this offense has sucked in the red zone WAY before both Boller and McNair got here.

But don't let reality get in the way of your Boller slurping.

PP

[WxKevin]

this thread is not about being 2-2 in 2007. It's about a coach that can't run an effective offense at the NFL level...and that has been the case SINCE HE GOT HERE. If you want to keep BB as the head coach fine, but please get somebody else to run the offense and call the plays on gameday b/c after 8 years it's QUITE clear Billick can't do it.
FM

The only "gripe" I have with Billick is his play calling within the red zone. They are moving the ball fine between the 20's. Something needs to change but not the HC at this time.

[RAVENOUS52]

The only "gripe" I have with Billick is his play calling within the red zone. They are moving the ball fine between the 20's. Something needs to change but not the HC at this time.

No doubt, Kev! Have we learned NOTHING from San Diego?:grbac:

[JimBone]

I know some of them are under contract, but since this all hypothetical:

Jeff Fisher
Bill Cowher
Norm Chow

[Greg]

Billick's days of skirting by on the SuperBowl win 6 years ago should be long gone...this guy is a joke.

And the money to Billick on the contract I doubt is guaranteed if he gets fired.
First off, his money is most assuredly guaranteed, HC contracts are always guaranteed.

Second, he has won a lot more games then he has lost and please drop the elite defense BS. We had elite talent on D when he got here and we couldn't win more than 6 games. The organization was a joke. Since he has been here we now have fans like the ones posting this kind of take who have high expectations year in and out. Let's go back to 1998, would 2-2 have looked that bad then? WITH AN ELITE OFFENSE?

[highwater]

I can't beleive this theard has reached three pages -- Billick is not going anywhere, not because of a 2-2 start!

Listen up, Billick-haters -- if you want to see a coach butcher a team, look at Norv Turner at San Diego. His playcalling Sunday was inexplicable. LT had over 110 yards rushing in the first half, and then Turner ignored him in the second half. WTF? They've already lost more games this season than they lost all of last season. Nice off-season moves, A.J. Smith.

[psuasskicker]

Okay don't shoot the messenger here. I never said I wanted Billick out though I'll admit it could be taken that way given the thread I started. However my intent wasn't to say I want Billick gone.

Instead, it's acknowledging a reality here...I don't think it's at all safe to say Billick's job is secure this season. Last year he was on the brink and turned it around quickly. Why is it all that ridiculous to think that if the Ravens collapse this season he's right back on the brink?

I actually think Chow is a really interesting suggestion.

- C -

[GREYREDSTAR]

KIRK FERENTZ! He is probably about ready to get out of the cornfields.

[Fanman]

Granted...I know BB is not going anywhere, but that doesn't mean we can't engage in a discussion about choice we would make if that did happen.

From all the names listed I like Jeff Fischer the best, followed by Cowher and Jim Schwartz. I have always liked Fischer and he did a LOT w/ teams that were not loaded w/ talent. Personally I think the Ravens would have advanced deeper into the playoffs more times w/ Fischer coaching them.

FM

[psuasskicker]

Fischer isn't going anywhere.

- C -

[btownraven]

Second, he has won a lot more games then he has lost and please drop the elite defense BS. We had elite talent on D when he got here and we couldn't win more than 6 games. The organization was a joke. Since he has been here we now have fans like the ones posting this kind of take who have high expectations year in and out. Let's go back to 1998, would 2-2 have looked that bad then? WITH AN ELITE OFFENSE?
I completely agree on the impact that Billick has had on this organization. He dramatically changed the attitude. The attitude change he brought was the MOST important reason the Ravens won Super Bowl XXXV. You're absolutely right - we had the talent on D in '98 - but Billick brought that talent out with his attitude and approach. No doubt.

My concern is that Billick's main strength - motivation - seems to be dependent on being the underdog. His teams overachieve when the expectations aren't as high ('00, '02, '06) but underachieve when the expectations are high ('04, '05, so far this year). Given the incredible front office the Ravens have, they're going to have a lot of talent so expectations should be high consistently.

Listen, I defended the guy vigorously in '05 based on the same argument you're making. Regardless of what happens the rest of his stay here he belongs in the Ring of Honor. But if this team underachieves for the 3rd time in 4 years, it's not out of line to think it's time for a new voice.

I think the Norv Turner comparison is a poor one. You have a GM there who's ego is out of control & wants to prove how brilliant he is by winning with a mediocre head coach. Plus they made the change after a GREAT season, not an underachieving one. Believe me, I don't think Ozzie and company would be stupid enough to hire a losing retread like Norv Turner. If they would, then letting Billick go would be dumb.

[Fanman]

The only way Billick should return next year is if this team actually wins a playoff game...if not, the change is long overdue.

FM

[Gwaihir]

I don't want Billick to get Fired. I want Bisciotti to tell him to let Neuheisel handle the offense the way Rex handles the defense! I want Billick to keep his hands off the offense as he has shown his plans don't work! He doesn't need a whole new play book, but I think he needs to let Rich run with it for a few games to see what happens.

If he refuses to do this and let Neuheisel have full control, - CAN HIS ASS! Brian's a great motivator but doesn't know shit about running an offense. There's no excuse for not knowing what down it is and asking the refs, there's no excuse for not going hurry-up down by 21 in the fourth quarter, and he has always sucked at clock management!

I think there is just too much on him trying to be Head Coach AND Offensive Coordinator!