Ravens agree to 1 year extension with Boller

[awalt]

Just got the text message from BR.com. Story is here:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/Common/Article.aspx?id=16742


The Ravens shored up their quarterback position into the 2008 season Thursday by signing Kyle Boller to a one-year extension, announced general manager Ozzie Newsome.

He will continue to back up starter Steve McNair, forming one of the most-steady tandems under center in the NFL.

“This is good news for us,” said head coach Brian Billick. “We have said all along how important Kyle is to this team, and this secures him for at least another season for us.”

[HoustonRaven]

Good move. Alex Smith is not ready to move up and with McNair's history of injuries, its a good insurance policy.

[ChrisQ]

Good move. Alex Smith is not ready to move up and with McNair's history of injuries, its a good insurance policy.

Wrong coast :D

[purplepoe]

So he signs a one year extension?

Yea, that really shows a long term commmittment.

He will be a backup again.

Hey T, where's that above market deal they had on the table?

PP

[HoustonRaven]

Wrong coast :D

hahahahahaha ..... oops .... one too many Lone Star's or I have my fantasy back up on my brain ... not sure which.

TROY Smith .... TROY, TROY, TROY ..... think I got it now.

[Art-Florida]

Crazyraven, Purplepoe, and Tex just got acid indigestion big-time. LOL




Lets keep it civil Art.

[purplepoe]

Crazyraven, Purplepoe, and Tex just got acid indigestion big-time. LOL

Why me?

Im fine with him as a backup which is exactly what he will be.

I stated it in another thread that if he signed here it would show that he was content with being a backup.

According to some here, Boller probably had a nice multiyear deal on the table with incentives etc..... In reality, he had a one year deal on the table that he signed. Where's all the talk about how he'd easily land a deal in the offseason from another team. I mean, if he and his agent really thought that, then why did they sign a 1 year deal?

PP

[copenhaggard]

I mean, if he and his agent really thought that, then why did they sign a 1 year deal?

PP

...Because he needed an extra year to sort through all of the phone calls and emails from teams offering Boller a starting job.

[jonboy79]

Maybe the guy likes Baltimore. Maybe he thinks that in the next (2) years he will have ample time to show to the rest of the league what he is made of. Maybe he and hsi agent feel that Balitmore is a place he can and WILL be successful if given the opportunity, and feels that time spent will increase his future contract. There are a lot of reasons for him to sign the deal, the most obvious being that now he feels cofident that he will have at least 2 more super-million dollar years of salary.
Why the team should/could and did sign him is even longer, and one of the tricky ones could be cap relief. ratcheting him back to vet min this year with a bonus could make a Suggs deal easier. Also, knowing htat going into next year you have an already signed McNair, a known cheap quantity at Backup, and another guy on the REAL cheap that can spend 2 years learnign the NFL game as a third QB. If they had not retained Boller, they would undoubtedly be spending more NEXT offseason for a #2, and maybe THAT is what worried them about re-signing Suggs.

[Mista T]

Why me?

Im fine with him as a backup which is exactly what he will be.

Tex ....excuse me: Poe: you should be a politician! :rolling: This is the 1st time I recall you saying that you'd be fine with Boller anything....

[HoustonRaven]

Money, Money and Money ...

Ever see him out in Fed Hill? He has the finest arm candy around and it takes lots of duckets to keep women like that around .... and that phat crib he has isnt cheap either. :179421:

[ravenwoman]

I think this is a great move on the part of the Ravens. They probably have one of the better backups in the league. Byron Leftwich is no better than Kyle Boller. If he was so great, how come Jacksonville got rid of him.

I predict that Steve McNair will not play all 16 games and Kyle Boller will play in at least 2 games. He is still learning and he is only 26. I think the reason Kyle signed the contract was that a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush.

[purplepoe]

Tex ....excuse me: Poe: you should be a politician! :rolling: This is the 1st time I recall you saying that you'd be fine with Boller anything....

Excuse me?

Tex?

You can kiss my ass Ted. I've given legit reasons as to why I don't think Boller should START on this team.

I come out and debate you and Dave when you cry about McNair starting over Boller.

Not about Boller being the BACKUP on this team.

And that's exactly what he is and will be next year.

The BACKUP.

I only argue with the delusional people who think Boller should start over McNair.

I don't hijack threads at all. I talk about the topics at hand in whatever thread I post in.

Maybe you should be a politician.

What a joke your post was.


PP

[RavensNTerps]

1. This is a smart move, no matter how many people want to cry in their milk about Boller.

2. Boller is a bust because of his draft status, but he is NOT a Cade McNown, Akili Smith, or Ryan Leaf guy, either. He's more than a serviceable back up...58% completion, 16 TDs, 10 INTs and 220 yards a game over his last 9. That's fine.

3. He's a bridge-gap player. Think about it logically. McNair at best has 2 years left. The next guy down without Boller is Troy Smith, who is a project right now, at best. If McNair retired after this year, Smith could not start.

Then what? Do you draft a guy and have yourself in the same position that you had in 2003? In other words: Troy Smith "competing" with some rookie (Matt Ryan, Colt Brennan, whoever), who wins by default because the other QBs on the roster were so bad? 2003 all over again...the Ravens won't let that happen.

This is called thinking ahead. It's not stupid at all. Some people just have blinders on. It's like because Boller isn't an all-pro, he can't play football at all. There IS an in between, and that is exactly where he lays.

[jonboy79]

PP- for what it's worht I have noticed in the last couple of days a certain ammount of acceptance with Boller as our backup on this team from your direction. Your disdain for him is far less reaching and much more "reasonable" then others on the forum. I can't really argue that Kyle IS or CERTAINLY WILL be a capable starter, but I do get sick of arguing whether he is a competent backup(as he showed last year). SO there is one witness for you...

[purplepoe]

PP- for what it's worht I have noticed in the last couple of days a certain ammount of acceptance with Boller as our backup on this team from your direction. Your disdain for him is far less reaching and much more "reasonable" then others on the forum. I can't really argue that Kyle IS or CERTAINLY WILL be a capable starter, but I do get sick of arguing whether he is a competent backup(as he showed last year). SO there is one witness for you...

Sigh.

That's cool.

I've never been against him being the backup. I don't want him starting and it's pretty clear the only way he will is if McNair goes down.

What I have been saying is that it's VERY unusual for a 1st round pick that hasn't been a complete success to re-sign with the team that drafted him. That's just a fact.

PP

[Art-Florida]

I think this is a great move on the part of the Ravens. They probably have one of the better backups in the league. Byron Leftwich is no better than Kyle Boller. If he was so great, how come Jacksonville got rid of him.

I predict that Steve McNair will not play all 16 games and Kyle Boller will play in at least 2 games. He is still learning and he is only 26. I think the reason Kyle signed the contract was that a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush.

I think you can rest assured that Kyle has both hands in lots of b... Nah, too easy. :)

[ClericBlackDave]

So he signs a one year extension?

Yea, that really shows a long term commmittment.

He will be a backup again.

Hey T, where's that above market deal they had on the table?

PP


Ironic that we seemingly don't know the figures on the contract yet and you're talking shit.

The key here is that the team is probably not confident in McNair being reliable for 3 years straight (including last year) and would rather have Boller as the starter for that period than any other QB.

I think the understanding will be pretty clear, although haters will deny it: if Boller continues to play well, which he has been despite hater opinions, he'll get his shot.

Really, I'm going to stop any argument about this on my part about this, because talking before about an extension for Boller half of this fanbase would call me crazy.

But I said I trust Ozzie.

I think some people trust Ozzie, so long as they agree with him.

[purplepoe]

Ironic that we seemingly don't know the figures on the contract yet and you're talking shit.

The key here is that the team is probably not confident in McNair being reliable for 3 years straight (including last year) and would rather have Boller as the starter for that period than any other QB.

I think the understanding will be pretty clear, although haters will deny it: if Boller continues to play well, which he has been despite hater opinions, he'll get his shot.

Really, I'm going to stop any argument about this on my part about this, because talking before about an extension for Boller half of this fanbase would call me crazy.

But I said I trust Ozzie.

I think some people trust Ozzie, so long as they agree with him.


What are you talking about?

The figure I know is that it's a one year deal.

How is it that he'll get his shot?

By McNair getting hurt? Yup. And there are 31 other QBs who will get that shot if the QB in front of them goes down.

Tell me something Dave, if the Ravens were so confident in Boller, then why not a 3 or 4 year deal?

As Billick clearly stated on Tuesday night when asked about Boller and the future.

Boller knows that McNair is the clear cut starter. Period.

It's not hating. It's a fact.

Boller is the backup. That is his clearly defined role on this team.

And what about all your talk about how when he became a Free Agent that he would get a nice deal from another team to compete for a job. If that were the case, don't you think he and his agent would've held off on signing a 1 year contract with the Ravens?

You even said on another board that if the deal offered wasn't much then it was probably just a symbolic offer. Well guess what. He took it.

Why do you think that is? Again, he WILL NOT be competing for the starting QB position on this team. If they want him as a backup for 2 more years, so be it I guess. It'll keep these message boards running.

He will play in mop up duty and if McNair gets injured.

And stop with your backtracking about if you talked about Boller signing here. I predicted that's exactly what you would do when you said "I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed or if he left". Covering all the bases so you can say crap like that.

And how is it clear that he'll get his shot?

You did read or heard exactly what Billick said regarding this exact topic on Tuesday night, correct?

If not, here it is.

"Kyle is on a one-year contract, and we'd love to have him back," coach Brian Billick said on his Tuesday radio show on WBAL. "That's really up to Kyle and his representation as we go through the year. There could be some potential for that. From a business standpoint, Kyle may want to sit back and see at the end of the season what his options are.

"He has a very clear understanding of where we are here. Steve McNair is our starting quarterback and [we] have no reason to believe Steve won't remain that for a number of years. We clearly would like to have Kyle back and would be very interested in extending Kyle."

So how exactly, besides an injury to McNair, is Boller going to get his shot?

And yes, I was wrong. I didn't think he would re-sign here.

And it's very odd that it's a 1 year deal IMO.

PP

[ClericBlackDave]

Poe, its simple.

McNair hasn't gone back to back playing seasons w/o a major injury. In relief of McNair, Boller has looked good, perhaps less acurate but definitely more explosive.

Boller will get his shot to play.

Honestly, I dont believe one word Billick has to say about "McNair is our starter". You don't start a QB controversy when there isn't one.

But the likelyhood McNair starts this season and next is not high.

Honestly, baring a deep playoff run I'm not even sure if he would want to play. And go ahead and say "where do you get this?" but its a personal opinion. Just like it was my opinion that Ogden's toe was far more serious than was let on, and not just a "free veteran pass on training camp"


1) I am personally interested in teh figures on the extension (signing bonus and salary) considering that he delayed free agency a year, and even backups under the new CBA are getting paid

2) I am pretty sure that Ozzie and company had a discussion about Boller's position with the team, and behind closed doors they are telling him he has a shot at being successor. However, there is no reason to say that while Mcnair is starter.


In any case, this team is set apparently with its 3 QBs. And I like it.

[purplepoe]

Poe, its simple.

McNair hasn't gone back to back playing seasons w/o a major injury. In relief of McNair, Boller has looked good, perhaps less acurate but definitely more explosive.

Boller will get his shot to play.

Honestly, I dont believe one word Billick has to say about "McNair is our starter". You don't start a QB controversy when there isn't one.

But the likelyhood McNair starts this season and next is not high.

Honestly, baring a deep playoff run I'm not even sure if he would want to play. And go ahead and say "where do you get this?" but its a personal opinion. Just like it was my opinion that Ogden's toe
was far more serious than was let on, and not just a "free veteran pass on training camp"


1) I am personally interested in teh figures on the extension (signing bonus and salary) considering that he delayed free agency a year, and even backups under the new CBA are getting paid

2) I am pretty sure that Ozzie and company had a discussion about Boller's position with the team, and behind closed doors they are telling him he has a shot at being successor. However, there is no reason to say that while Mcnair is starter.


In any case, this team is set apparently with its 3 QBs. And I like it.

You don't believe Billick because you don't want to believe Billick.

If Boller has a shot at being the successor to McNair, then why is it only a one year deal?

And again, Boller as a backup is fine. It's what he is.

And once more because you don't want to answer it. You have professed that Boller could be the starter on numerous teams who have shaky starting QBs. So Ill ask you. Why would he and his agent sign a ONE year extension here if they thought he could go out and get a multiyear deal with a team with the chance to start?

And explain why the likelihood that McNair starts this season and next season isn't high.

PP

[highwater]

PP- for what it's worht I have noticed in the last couple of days a certain ammount of acceptance with Boller as our backup on this team from your direction. Your disdain for him is far less reaching and much more "reasonable" then others on the forum.

Agreed -- let's not throw PP in with a nut like Tex. They're not in the same category at all.

Regarding the extension, I think it's a smart move although I admit I'm a little surprised. I thought Boller's preference would be to at least test free agency, but in any event, I'm glad he's sticking around. He'll probably get a chance to play at some point, and a solid backup QB is a nice thing to have.

[ClericBlackDave]

Agreed -- let's not throw PP in with a nut like Tex. They're not in the same category at all.

Regarding the extension, I think it's a smart move although I admit I'm a little surprised. I thought Boller's preference would be to at least test free agency, but in any event, I'm glad he's sticking around. He'll probably get a chance to play at some point, and a solid backup QB is a nice thing to have.

Aaron was saying on the other board that we're paying about 3 Million, didn't hear any details on any bonus money.

WHich is obviously suprising because at backup money he'd have made more than that on the free market.

Which again leads me to believe that the team had told him that they're watching his progression and happy, and he'll get his chance.



And once more because you don't want to answer it. You have professed that Boller could be the starter on numerous teams who have shaky starting QBs. So Ill ask you. Why would he and his agent sign a ONE year extension here if they thought he could go out and get a multiyear deal with a team with the chance to start?


Poe, I dont believe Bilick because the most important thing McNair brought to this team, shit maybe even this city, was unity. Mojo. And there isn't a reason to blow that up. McNair, at the very least, was the solution to this team's psychological issues. But most of the wins last year were on the defense because that defense was on another level. This years D could be too.


McNair is the undisputed starter but I dont think Ozzie possibly thinks that McNair, at his age and injury history, will start this year and next without incident.


I think now that Ozzie or anyone thinking objectively at the length of McNair's contract knows it was prohibitive. The best thing to do is lock up Boller another year for top backup money and tell him that he still has a shot. Because he does.


Boller takes this deal because he still wants to, and can be, the starting QB for the Baltimore Ravens. Not this year, mind you. But in the future.


That is the "nightmare" you won't admit.


But the key here is that this is the type of player Boller is. He's battling for this spot, and probably taking less money for a 1 year deal, to stick around.


I'm not going back on the fact that he'd have made more money on the free market. He would have. But maybe, just maybe Poe, Boller is a little more old school than you want to admit, and for him its about being starter here. If myself and some other fans are sitting thinking "this guy has the arm and is making the plays to be starter" or noticing that McNair's arm is dead and can start forever, he's got to be thinking that.


But, he's a class act and you'll never hear anything negative in the media. You'll just hear that he wants to be in Baltimore for his whole career. Why? Because picture that, he might really want to be our QB.

[Mista T]

Aaron was saying on the other board that we're paying about 3 Million, didn't hear any details on any bonus money.

WHich is obviously suprising because at backup money he'd have made more than that on the free market.

Disagree. He likely would have received more $$$ only if some other team picked him up as a starter, which is not likely. Look up the 2006 QB salaries (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=106). Outside of aberrations Warner & Brunell, Kyle's $3 million range deal would place him at or near the top of the heap of backup QBs. Most backups make under $1 million. This is an above-market deal, which indicates that the Ravens really want to keep him off the market, and bodes well for Boller to become the starter again when Mcnair's backloaded deal ($6 million/year) becomes too great a burden.

[Rochardrik]

Neither Boller nor his agent are dummies when it came to making a business decision.I think they both knew they were taking the best deal they could possibly land by accepting the Ravens offer to remain as a backup.

I truly think the more Boller will play or be on the field the more he will eventually diminish what little value he may have. Plus, Boller going elsewhere and learning a new system from scratch? Hell, its taken him 5 years to understand the one he's in and at times he still doesn't know where to throw the ball.:eek:

No, I am certain Boller and his agent are laughing all the way to the bank as they know he is getting paid a lot of money for basically sucking his entire career!:(

Tex, You are a complete idiot! If you keep bashing Kyle, you will never get a date with him!:rolleyes:

[Bez513]

The way I read this is they think highly of Troy Smith. They put him on the active roster and now with Boller extended for a year they are bridging the gap between McNair and Smith. Although Boller hasn't been the #1 like we wanted he's been a good backup and a good kid.

[Losac]

Oh yeah, this one year deal really shows Kyle is our QB of the future. Wasn't he supposed to be the QB of the future way back in 2003?

This is a stopgap measure between McNair and Troy Smith. It does not take a #19 overall pick 5 years to "progress", Dave.

[ClericBlackDave]

Oh yeah, this one year deal really shows Kyle is our QB of the future. Wasn't he supposed to be the QB of the future way back in 2003?

This is a stopgap measure between McNair and Troy Smith. It does not take a #19 overall pick 5 years to "progress", Dave.


WHen was the last time McNair put together back to back campaigns without major injury?


Thats the issue here. An aging QB who's skills are diminishing and who has had more injuries than your average QB has a backloaded deal. A young QB, who you invested a 1st round pick into who is getting better and better on completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, and deep ball acuracy.


THe nightmare is that for anyone who is more concerned with hating Boller than on the welfare of the Baltimore Ravens, odds are Boller will start a significant of time in the next 2 years.


McNair is the starter now. Later is when things will get interesting. If they didn't want it to get interesting, they wouldn't have resigned him, and he wouldn't have resigned.


As for Boller's deal, he's only forgone 1 year of free agency for 3 mil and a chance to prove he can be the starter again, eventually.


****edit****


In terms of the development time of Boller

1) he was a tedford QB and raw coming out of college. He's also very young, what 26? And is now a 5th year vet. That right there lets you know we rushed him.

2) This team was bad offensively, period. We didn't have a WR in '03 who could have started on any other team

3) This team just recently started paying attention to its O-line.

4) How many great QBs like Steve Young or Elway had some bad years and took time to development and needed talent around them?


If he had gone on the market, though, up front bonus money + salary would have out performed the 3 mil 1 year extension definitely.

[pyite32]

I am not a Boller lover or Hater. I am in the middle. I would love to see Boller succeed in Baltimore b/c he seems like such a team player and a decent enough guy.

All that aside, here is why I like the deal.

Troy Smith looked terrible in pre season this year. If Boller would have left then Smith would have automatically been our back up next year and with McNair's health issues we might have been in trouble. This is hedging the Troy Smith bet. If he over the course of this year does not show the improvement the Ravens are expecting then they can draft a quarterback next year and the new guy will have a year as #3 to learn how to be a NFL quarterback.

Other than that if McNair goes down this year, I think the FO is starting to think Boller is learning how to play in this league. If by some chance Boller comes in and starts to show he can play in this league it gives Ozzie another year to work out a long term deal with him. I don't think that they are ready to completely give up on him.

I believe this is why this deal was made

[festivus]

This deal has nothing to do with Troy Smith. It is all about locking up the backup qb spot for one more year. Having Boller on the bench is a luxury we are fortunate to have.

The FO has, to its credit, *always* been willing to upgrade without sentimentality where reasonably possible. Don't think for a second they would hesitate to upgrade our "Quarterback of the future" position, which is held only by the slenderest of threads - process of elimination, you might say - by Troy Smith.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Doesn't really matter to me.

We aren't going to be stuck just "giving" him the job, but I will readily admit that I don't mind him being the back up and in a couple years have him compete...I will say this, I have very little doubt that we will be drafting a QB high in the draft this coming year.

We'll see how it goes...I just don't want this guy forced on us anymore than he has as a starter.

[ClericBlackDave]

I am not a Boller lover or Hater. I am in the middle. I would love to see Boller succeed in Baltimore b/c he seems like such a team player and a decent enough guy.

All that aside, here is why I like the deal.

Troy Smith looked terrible in pre season this year. If Boller would have left then Smith would have automatically been our back up next year and with McNair's health issues we might have been in trouble. This is hedging the Troy Smith bet. If he over the course of this year does not show the improvement the Ravens are expecting then they can draft a quarterback next year and the new guy will have a year as #3 to learn how to be a NFL quarterback.

Other than that if McNair goes down this year, I think the FO is starting to think Boller is learning how to play in this league. If by some chance Boller comes in and starts to show he can play in this league it gives Ozzie another year to work out a long term deal with him. I don't think that they are ready to completely give up on him.

I believe this is why this deal was made


That sums it up better than I think I've stated it previously. And this was always the logic I thought the team had and would apply, and which was manifested in making the signing.


Boller's learning curve is on the ups as recent play and stats show. Haters just continue to harp on his 1st three seasons where he played behind a bad pass blocking o-line and with recievers who are mostly out of the league.

[highwater]

This deal has nothing to do with Troy Smith. It is all about locking up the backup qb spot for one more year. Having Boller on the bench is a luxury we are fortunate to have.

While I agree that having Boller backing up McNair is a luxury, I wouldn't say that Troy Smith has nothing to do with this extension. If he had shown a little more promise this preseason, the FO may have been more likely to take a chance on letting Boller walk after this season. As it stands, they have Boller locked up for at least two more seasons, which gives them more time to evaluate Smith's progress and/or to pick up another QB if needed.

In any event, extending Boller is a smart move. Although I hope McNair stays healthy, it's a long shot that he'll start all 16 games again. Boller proved last year that he's a very capable backup (apparently much to the dismay of Tex, who lectured us over and over again at this time last year that Boller would be a terrible backup because he'd never come off the bench before).

[hurting]

The way I read this is they think highly of Troy Smith. They put him on the active roster and now with Boller extended for a year they are bridging the gap between McNair and Smith. Although Boller hasn't been the #1 like we wanted he's been a good backup and a good kid.

agreed. I think so far this scenario makes the most sense. Whether he is bridging the gap for Smith or possibly a high round pick next year it is clear that this is why they have done this. They need a capable #2 and he has shown that and he knows the system. He may not look pretty when he drops back, but he does have a winning record, has more TDs than INTs, and has shown he can come in and sub for a few games and keep the ship afloat. I think that most teams would be happy knowing that if their starter goes out for lets say 4 games that during that period they felt confident that the backup could at least deliver a 2-2 record. Kyle is clearly capable of that and on a good stretch may even get you a 3-1 with some luck.

[Purpleguy]

I posted this on the scout forums, but it should be said here as well:


Here's something contoversial that you can take to the bank, Steve Mcnair will not be here next year. Neither will Derrick Mason, Samari Rolle, Jonathan Ogden, and quite possibly Ray Lewis.

Kevin Byrne said himself that next season is cap purge time. I think the FO is setting themselves up so it isn't too ugly this time around. We have some nice young talent at WR and O-line. We also have some young defenders stepping up with core guys like C-Mac and Reed locked up. Look for Suggs to get resigned as well. Next season is boller's last shot to see if he has the goods, and I think the FO thinks he's primed after two years behind McNair.

I still think the kid is something special, and I think there will be alot of "haters" eating their words. he isn't a game management QB, and he shouldn't be used as one. He's a Favre type guy. he's going to take chances and he's going to get picked sometimes. We're fortunate to have the D to overcome that. He now has a legitimate deep threat in Williams, a great hands and YAC guy in Clayton, and one of the best over the middle TEs in the game.



I want to add one more thing after hearing all of this talk about Smith being "ready". Troy Smith was a nonfactor in this decision. If Boller were to leave then we would have gone on the market to find another back-up or starter. Troy Smith is a project that has graciously been given a year to sit with an NFL team and learn and watch. He will get snaps in the preseason next year and if he doesn't show marked improvement he will be out of the NFL. Tiny troy, who coincidentaly isn't much bigger than the actual Heisman trophy he won, is not an NFL QB.

[ClericBlackDave]

I posted this on the scout forums, but it should be said here as well:


Here's something contoversial that you can take to the bank, Steve Mcnair will not be here next year. Neither will Derrick Mason, Samari Rolle, Jonathan Ogden, and quite possibly Ray Lewis.

Kevin Byrne said himself that next season is cap purge time. I think the FO is setting themselves up so it isn't too ugly this time around. We have some nice young talent at WR and O-line. We also have some young defenders stepping up with core guys like C-Mac and Reed locked up. Look for Suggs to get resigned as well. Next season is boller's last shot to see if he has the goods, and I think the FO thinks he's primed after two years behind McNair.

I still think the kid is something special, and I think there will be alot of "haters" eating their words. he isn't a game management QB, and he shouldn't be used as one. He's a Favre type guy. he's going to take chances and he's going to get picked sometimes. We're fortunate to have the D to overcome that. He now has a legitimate deep threat in Williams, a great hands and YAC guy in Clayton, and one of the best over the middle TEs in the game.



I want to add one more thing after hearing all of this talk about Smith being "ready". Troy Smith was a nonfactor in this decision. If Boller were to leave then we would have gone on the market to find another back-up or starter. Troy Smith is a project that has graciously been given a year to sit with an NFL team and learn and watch. He will get snaps in the preseason next year and if he doesn't show marked improvement he will be out of the NFL. Tiny troy, who coincidentaly isn't much bigger than the actual Heisman trophy he won, is not an NFL QB.


Glad someone else sees this. This team will have to move onto a new phase of life, its a matter of when. If we have a deep playoff run this year, then maybe some things stay together.


If we're one and done again, you're going to see a lot of familiar faces gone, obviously Ogden, but probably McNair, Ray Lewis, and Rolle (if not healthy)


I actually think Mason stays a while, and Rolle also if he plays up again this year.

[purplepoe]

Sigh.

If some people can't see that Boller was signed here to be a backup, then so be it.

If he were in the future plans as a starter then why didn't they offer him a multi year deal?

Because he's not.

McNair is the starter this year and will be the starter next year IMO.

Boller is the backup.

Fine with me.

But can we please stop with this stuff about him being the starter? It aint happening unless McNair gets hurt.

And by the way Dave, my nightmare is Boller being this team's starter, not the backup.

PP

[ClericBlackDave]

Sigh.

If some people can't see that Boller was signed here to be a backup, then so be it.

If he were in the future plans as a starter then why didn't they offer him a multi year deal?

Because he's not.

McNair is the starter this year and will be the starter next year IMO.

Boller is the backup.

Fine with me.

But can we please stop with this stuff about him being the starter? It aint happening unless McNair gets hurt.

And by the way Dave, my nightmare is Boller being this team's starter, not the backup.

PP


I think we're basically on the same page, except one thing. I'm recognizing that we're basically 1 hit away from Boller as starter, or a post season cap purge away from him being starter.


And, I'm comfortable with that, because he's improving, and obviously Ozzie is seeing that, despite what some fans would think.

[purplepoe]

I think we're basically on the same page, except one thing. I'm recognizing that we're basically 1 hit away from Boller as starter, or a post season cap purge away from him being starter.


And, I'm comfortable with that, because he's improving, and obviously Ozzie is seeing that, despite what some fans would think.

Every single backup in this league is one hit away from being a starter Dave.

As far as your cap purge idea.

I seriously doubt it. Again, if the Ravens were so sold on Boller being a starter, then why not offer him a 3 or 4 year deal?

Obviously McNair will be gone by the 3rd year of that extension and Boller could take over.

But they offered him a one year deal to be McNair's backup next year. It's really that simple.

And yes, I believe Boller will play this season. I don't have a problem with him as a backup.

I never have because that is what he is. A backup.

PP

[Purpleguy]

PP, if they are so certain that he is just a backup then why not offer him a multi-year deal? Why have him be the backup for just another year? What do we do after 2009? Troy Smith? LMAO.

You sign him to a one year deal because you are giving him one more shot to see if his recent improvements are the real deal. If not then it's back to the drawing board. This is our last shot with this team after that it's time to pay the salary cap piper. It also seems like Billick has made a committment to calling the plays. McMair doesn't fit his style, although he did 5 years ago. Boller does fit his style.

PP, I'm actually really surprised at your vehement anti-Boller stance. You and I usually agree on these things. We even agreed on Jeff Blake, and I certainly feel Boller has more upside now then Blake did then. This isn't Chrissy Redman we're talking about. Kyle has arm strength, decent size, mobility, and is becoming more accurate. Redman had none of those things. I think you have to take one more look at that potential and it's progression after watching from the sidelines. You also have to look at it with a decent pass blocking line and some legitimate receiving threats.

Regardless, Mcnair won't be here next season, so maybe they just signed Boller to back up Troy Smith.

[Purpleguy]

yep, I saw Redman play against us and get lucky on some busted plays. He was also playing against our second team. I imagine he was playing against the Bengals second team as well. Boller's deep pass to williams was a better play than redman has ever ran. Sorry Tex, Johnny U is gone and Chrissy Redman isn't his heir apparent.

[Purpleguy]

So that's why you disdain boller. He practically knocked your hero out of the NFL. If Mike Vick didn't kill dogs then Redman may have never seen the NFL again.

When has Boller looked like a deer in headlights this current preseason? On the fumble where he was blindsided within 2 seconds. Yep, that was sure his fault. The fact is that Boller has done nothing but improve. Redman's game against the Rams may have been the worst performance by an NFL QB I have ever witnessed. I've never seen anyone play so scared.

You may want to make your reservations to Sheppard Pratt now, because Boller will be starting next season.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

What I have been saying is that it's VERY unusual for a 1st round pick that hasn't been a complete success to re-sign with the team that drafted him. That's just a fact.

PP

FACT:Everyone tends to forget that Kyle Boller wasn't projected to go in the first round of the draft either! So it isn't completely all his fault that he's not a success yet!

[purplepoe]

PP, if they are so certain that he is just a backup then why not offer him a multi-year deal? Why have him be the backup for just another year? What do we do after 2009? Troy Smith? LMAO.

You sign him to a one year deal because you are giving him one more shot to see if his recent improvements are the real deal. If not then it's back to the drawing board. This is our last shot with this team after that it's time to pay the salary cap piper. It also seems like Billick has made a committment to calling the plays. McMair doesn't fit his style, although he did 5 years ago. Boller does fit his style.

PP, I'm actually really surprised at your vehement anti-Boller stance. You and I usually agree on these things. We even agreed on Jeff Blake, and I certainly feel Boller has more upside now then Blake did then. This isn't Chrissy Redman we're talking about. Kyle has arm strength, decent size, mobility, and is becoming more accurate. Redman had none of those things. I think you have to take one more look at that potential and it's progression after watching from the sidelines. You also have to look at it with a decent pass blocking line and some legitimate receiving threats.

Regardless, Mcnair won't be here next season, so maybe they just signed Boller to back up Troy Smith.


1. I have zero faith that Troy Smith is the answer to any of our QB questions.

2. How is it that we are giving him a shot? He's the clear backup. He has a shot if McNair gets hurt. That's the same shot that 31 other backup QBs have.

3. How is it that McNair won't be back next season? I mean sure, there are scenarios where McNair won't be back. None seem to jump out or seem realistic as of now. But things change and I guess it's a remote possibility.

Yea, we usually agree on things. We just don't on this one.

Again, IMO Boller was signed to be a backup.

PP

[evade6317]

WHen was the last time McNair put together back to back campaigns without major injury?

When has Boller? Nice try hotshot.




I still think the kid is something special, and I think there will be alot of "haters" eating their words. he isn't a game management QB, and he shouldn't be used as one. He's a Favre type guy. he's going to take chances and he's going to get picked sometimes.

The huggers have been eating their words and back tracking for the past two seasons. Boller was supposed to be established and firing on all cylinders in 2005, but only produced two worthy games. And comparing him to Favre is so asinine, I can't help but laugh.



I want to add one more thing after hearing all of this talk about Smith being "ready". Troy Smith was a nonfactor in this decision. If Boller were to leave then we would have gone on the market to find another back-up or starter. Troy Smith is a project that has graciously been given a year to sit with an NFL team and learn and watch. He will get snaps in the preseason next year and if he doesn't show marked improvement he will be out of the NFL. Tiny troy, who coincidentaly isn't much bigger than the actual Heisman trophy he won, is not an NFL QB.

Neither is Boller, but it would be cheaper to develop Smith over 5 years than it has been Boller. And Smith has a far better resume as well.

Here's the deal, Boller has failed to live up to expectations. His first 9 starts were identical to Redman's first 9 starts.

He had more high profile coaches and coddling than any QB I know of and he still couldn't put it together when the huggers said he would in 2005.

The "because he was injured, he was really in his 2nd year in 2005" argument doesn't work either because it didn't work with Redman.

Who cares if he wasn't projected to go in the 1st round? He went on the 1st round, got paid as a 1st rounder, and performed like a bust.

Knock on Redman in his 10th significant appearance in St. Louis, but give Boller a pass for all of his lousy performances in Denver, NE, Jax, AFCN, etc?

Get some consistency in your arguments. You all look like fools.

[ClericBlackDave]

Neither is Boller, but it would be cheaper to develop Smith over 5 years than it has been Boller. And Smith has a far better resume as well.



ROFL Evade. Smith has a better resume? You mean a college resume? That doesn't mean shit now. Additionally, Smith's physical limitations are going to prevent him from really passing from within the pocket.


The truth is, the front office has already invested the 5 years of money, coaching, starting experience, and draft picks into Boller. Re-coaching up Smith would be a plain retarded restart of a similar process of seasoning a non-nfl ready QB.


Meanwhile Boller looks better day in and day out. But haters don't want to recognize it and will write that off by either pointing to a) Cleveland in '05 when Ogden negated a winning TD by being downfield and our special teams also failed us b) tipped passed against carolina in '06 that went for TDs, but we don't know where the passes were orriginally going to go


Luckily for us Ozzie Newsome and Billick and Bisciotti understand the concept of investment and that we don't live in a static void.


I hope some people on this board don't have a lot of money in stocks. You're probalby the type to sell a stock when it low but on its way up or buy a stock when its peaked and on it way down.


As for the one year nature of the deal, it works perfectly for both parties so long as Boller wants another shot to start here. Which he does.


McNair won't be playing here much longer. The fanboy talk of his playing for 3 more years is amusing. The contract is so backloaded and his health is so questionable Newsome wouldn't let that happen. As of now Kyle has a legit opportunity with this club, and if not, he only forgoed free agency for one year and made another 3-4 million dollars. The organization minimizes the risk and cap ramifications of keeping him while keeping him around for another year. And the rate of pay being well above yearly market value for backup lets me know, regardless of what haters say, that Ozzie thinks of Boller. He sees his improvement and the great potential to be an starter.


In any case, come monday we're going to have something else to talk about. And hopefully its a Ravens win.

[FHRaven]

Get some consistency in your arguments. You all look like fools.

Pot, meet kettle. :grbac:

[Purpleguy]

Wow, it's all crystal clear now. Boller never had a shot in this town with many fans. The day the Ravens traded up to draft him was basically the day that the final nail was put in Redman's coffin. The drafting of Boller crushed the dreams, or delusions, many of you had about Redman becoming the next Johnny U.


PP, I'm basing my assumption of Mcnair not being here on Kevin Byrne saying we had a two year window right before last season. Then the cap would take it's toll. I think it was an incredibly stupid, defeatist thing to say, but he said it.

[purplepoe]

Wow, it's all crystal clear now. Boller never had a shot in this town with many fans. The day the Ravens traded up to draft him was basically the day that the final nail was put in Redman's coffin. The drafting of Boller crushed the dreams, or delusions, many of you had about Redman becoming the next Johnny U.


PP, I'm basing my assumption of Mcnair not being here on Kevin Byrne saying we had a two year window right before last season. Then the cap would take it's toll. I think it was an incredibly stupid, defeatist thing to say, but he said it.

Eh, we'll see.

If a guy like Ozzie or Moriarty said it, I might lend it a little more weight.

Maybe they're just smart enough not to.

IMO, this season and how it turns out will affect McNair's decision more than the cap situation.

If we win the SB, he's gone.

If we see another 2005 (we all don't want that) then I'd say he goes too.

But what if we make a nice playoff run and lose in the AFC championship or something?

Does he leave then?

Alot of variables to be played out.

PP

[evade6317]

ROFL Evade. Smith has a better resume? You mean a college resume? That doesn't mean shit now. Additionally, Smith's physical limitations are going to prevent him from really passing from within the pocket.

You mean the same limitations Drew Brees and Jeff Garcia have?



The truth is, the front office has already invested the 5 years of money, coaching, starting experience, and draft picks into Boller. Re-coaching up Smith would be a plain retarded restart of a similar process of seasoning a non-nfl ready QB.

5 years of investment and they decided to go in a different direction and invest in an aging vet.



Meanwhile Boller looks better day in and day out. But haters don't want to recognize it and will write that off by either pointing to a) Cleveland in '05 when Ogden negated a winning TD by being downfield and our special teams also failed us b) tipped passed against carolina in '06 that went for TDs, but we don't know where the passes were orriginally going to go

AJ Feely had some amazing starts a couple seasons back and he bombed when he got a starting gig. And of course, let's blame someone other than Boller for his incompetence. Yes, Ogden didn't help, but Boller also got outplayed that game by Charlie Frye. And against Carolina, he got lucky. Are you denying this?


Luckily for us Ozzie Newsome and Billick and Bisciotti understand the concept of investment and that we don't live in a static void.

Yes we are, they invested in McNair.



I hope some people on this board don't have a lot of money in stocks. You're probalby the type to sell a stock when it low but on its way up or buy a stock when its peaked and on it way down.

If Boller was a stock, you would have lost a lot of money already. The odds of you making it back are terrible.



As for the one year nature of the deal, it works perfectly for both parties so long as Boller wants another shot to start here. Which he does.

Yes it does. Boller is now in the elite category of Kelly Holcomb. The boy has made it!



McNair won't be playing here much longer. The fanboy talk of his playing for 3 more years is amusing. The contract is so backloaded and his health is so questionable Newsome wouldn't let that happen.

You talk as if Boller is an ironman. Boller missed more games than McNair did from 2003-2005. McNair has shown better resilience as a starter than Boller has. Try again.


As of now Kyle has a legit opportunity with this club, and if not, he only forgoed free agency for one year and made another 3-4 million dollars. The organization minimizes the risk and cap ramifications of keeping him while keeping him around for another year. And the rate of pay being well above yearly market value for backup lets me know, regardless of what haters say, that Ozzie thinks of Boller. He sees his improvement and the great potential to be an starter.

Really? It couldn't be a solid insurance policy? Garcia had a similar deal in Philly and got a similar one in Tampa before he won the starters job. Prior to this signing, the huggers were proclaiming how Boller would have suitors in FA to compete for a starting job. I guess Boller and his representation don't see it that way.

Journeymen sign 1 year deals, not future cornerstones.


Pot, meet kettle. :grbac:

You're way off on that one pal. But you have the condescending part down.

[FHRaven]

You're way off on that one pal. But you have the condescending part down.

You're joking, right? Boller haters are notorious for applying one standard to him and another to.... well, any other QB who has ever played an NFL game. :laugh:

Circular logic, straw man arguments, double standards, and just plain made up "facts" are all standard stuff for a Hater. And my personal favorite, when presented with facts that dispute a claim, just ignore that post!

As for being condescending, don't blame me, you make it easy.

[Mista T]

Eh, we'll see.

If a guy like Ozzie or Moriarty said it, I might lend it a little more weight.

Maybe they're just smart enough not to.

How about Dick Cass, the team President. Is he not smart enough?




If we win the SB, he's gone.

If we see another 2005 (we all don't want that) then I'd say he goes too.

But what if we make a nice playoff run and lose in the AFC championship or something?

If we lose in the playoffs with another Mcnair clunker game as in the 2006 playoffs, it would be very tempting to cut him to save on the back end of his over-inflated contract.




You're joking, right? Boller haters are notorious for applying one standard to him and another to.... well, any other QB who has ever played an NFL game. :laugh:

Circular logic, straw man arguments, double standards, and just plain made up "facts" are all standard stuff for a Hater. And my personal favorite, when presented with facts that dispute a claim, just ignore that post!

As for being condescending, don't blame me, you make it easy.

Yes, eaxctly. Better articulated than my point above about arguing with Haters is like arguing with your 3 year old.

Here's a sweeping generalization: many of these Boller-hating "Ravens fans" :laugh: are so hung up on Kyle's 1st round draft pick & early developmental problems that many cannot, or refuse to, look at how he has developed to become a top notch backup and likely future starter. Dwelling on the past -- who gives a fat fuck about how many draft picks were invested, how long it took for Boller to get comfortable, or how he tripped & fumbled at Denver in 2005. Try talking about his performance level today: the December 2005 night games, his 104 rating in 2006, his 2007 preseason proficiency .... and many of these "fans" will just change the subject, back to drafting him or his slow development. It's blind rage, totally irrational.

I think that the chances of Boller starting next season are reasonably fair because of Mcnair's age, arm deterioration, and bloated salary (Purpleguy hit it pretty well - although I would expect to see Ray Lewis survive the cap purge). I think that 2009 should be a virtual lock. This $3 million will turn out to be a cheap investment by not having to expend a high draft pick on a QB over the next few drafts.

Haters, of course, will dismiss this, putting their hopes around Mcnair somehow beating Father Time or the midget :rolling: somehow growing a few inches to be come a pro QB (never going to happen).

[copenhaggard]

Haters, of course, will dismiss this, putting their hopes around Mcnair somehow beating Father Time or the midget :rolling: somehow growing a few inches to be come a pro QB (never going to happen).

Funny, "midget" Troy knows how to better navigate an NFL pocket, how to not stare down receivers, and play better in big games than "mental midget" Kyle Boller.

It's funny though, extreme Boller-elitists love the 104 rating. What was McNair's rating over the last 10 games when Billick took over? What about our offensive performance in general?

Oh please, bring up the playoff game. Here's the best part, the Colts are excellent at rushing the passer, something Kyle Boller hasn't figured out how to beat yet. Yeah, I'm sure he'd do well. He'd throw some explosive interceptions downfield, which would be okay for CBD/T, because they were deep. Or he could throw a ball so hard that the defenders in double coverage could not catch it. Hell Heap wouldn't have fumbled if Boller were QB, because he'd telegraph the pass to a LB, or throw it 20 feet over his head.

This obsession with wanting Boller to start is starting (no pun intended) to get disgusting, seriously. It's only on these boards too. I wonder though, how is it that fans of many rival teams (geographically and divisonwise) think Boller sucks and is a joke? Are all of the "haters" and other fans just idiots? Is our FO a bunch of haters also?

[purplepoe]

How about Dick Cass, the team President. Is he not smart enough?





If we lose in the playoffs with another Mcnair clunker game as in the 2006 playoffs, it would be very tempting to cut him to save on the back end of his over-inflated contract.





Yes, eaxctly. Better articulated than my point above about arguing with Haters is like arguing with your 3 year old.

Here's a sweeping generalization: many of these Boller-hating "Ravens fans" :laugh: are so hung up on Kyle's 1st round draft pick & early developmental problems that many cannot, or refuse to, look at how he has developed to become a top notch backup and likely future starter. Dwelling on the past -- who gives a fat fuck about how many draft picks were invested, how long it took for Boller to get comfortable, or how he tripped & fumbled at Denver in 2005. Try talking about his performance level today: the December 2005 night games, his 104 rating in 2006, his 2007 preseason proficiency .... and many of these "fans" will just change the subject, back to drafting him or his slow development. It's blind rage, totally irrational.

I think that the chances of Boller starting next season are reasonably fair because of Mcnair's age, arm deterioration, and bloated salary (Purpleguy hit it pretty well - although I would expect to see Ray Lewis survive the cap purge). I think that 2009 should be a virtual lock. This $3 million will turn out to be a cheap investment by not having to expend a high draft pick on a QB over the next few drafts.

Haters, of course, will dismiss this, putting their hopes around Mcnair somehow beating Father Time or the midget :rolling: somehow growing a few inches to be come a pro QB (never going to happen).

1. I don't really care who said something 2 years ago T. There are MANY variables that will go into who gets cut and who gets signed.

2. It will be very tempting to YOU to cut McNair if we lose in the playoffs again. However, you don't run the team. Thank god for that. Your obsession with playing Boller would've gotten you fired years ago.

3. I look at his play. I don't hate Boller. You cry and whine because we think he's not starting material. And how in the hell is 2009 a virtual lock for him to be the starter? He's not even signed for 2009. And once again, if he's such a lock to be a starter, then why did he sign to be the backup. YOUR blind love of Boller fails to see that that is exactly what happened. He signed to be the backup. Period. You want McNair to be cut. You always point out how Billick says he wants Boller back. Well, he got him. And he made it explicitly clear that Boller knows the situation here. Steve McNair is the clear cut starter and Boller is the backup.

4. We already looked at the possibility of trading up for Quinn. Why do you ignore what's going on? It's right there in front of you. And believe me, this team will look and most likely draft a QB fairly high in the draft in the next 2 years. How you view a ONE year, I repeat, ONE year extension as some sign that Boller is our future starting QB is astonishing.

5. And please, for the love of all things sane, explain to me to me this. If what you are saying about McNair is true and he leaves after this season. Hell even if he plays next year. Why didn't the Ravens sign Boller to a 3 or 4 year deal? What's the point of signing him to a 1 year deal if they really want him to take over for McNair?

6. Just read Boller's quote from the Sun about this whole thing. Don't bother, I'll give it you.

Boller, who was reportedly approached by team officials Wednesday about remaining with the Ravens, acknowledged that the team's initial contact with former Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Byron Leftwich prompted the negotiations.

"It definitely came up a little bit because of Leftwich," Boller said. "I don't know what his situation was or anything like that. When I really thought about it and went over everything, this is where I want to be. This is the place I want to play football and hopefully be here forever. But it was an opportunity where they offered me it, and gave me the first dibs at it, and I wanted to jump on it. To be a player on this team is a special thing, I think."

So you're gonna sit here and tell me that they really like Boller to be the future starting QB yet only offered him a 1 year extension AND brought up Leftwich? Seems to me they see him for exactly what he is. A backup.

It's clear. Crystal clear. Kyle Boller is the entrenched backup on this team.

You wanna spin it other ways? Go ahead. At least it makes for good reading.

PP

[crazyraven]

Well they like him to some degree. In some way I think the front office needed to compensate Boller now in case he is the only option at QB this season. They need to Keep him happy. They need to Keep him thinking he's part of the program. Lets not forget, NFL contracts aren't guaranteed.

What gets me is how Dilfer, a back up who won a super bowl with us, was shown the door by this FO. And Boller who hasn't won anything stays around for 5 years and maybe 6.

you got to admire the kid in a way. He's got more lives than a cat.

[Greg]

They signed Boller to another year because they haven't given up on him. If he was not considered an option to ever compete for a starting job here they would have moved on. There are any number of vets always out there who would be had cheaper to back up. No need to rush to sign Boller, they could have waited. Obviously they did this early to avoid competition for his services in the off-season.

That coupled with Troy Smith not impressing enough for them to consider him a legit backup next season, is why Boller was re-signed.

This doesn't mean he is heir apparent but you don't make an effort to sign a backup only ahead of time. Not unless you think there might be more.

[purplepoe]

They signed Boller to another year because they haven't given up on him. If he was not considered an option to ever compete for a starting job here they would have moved on. There are any number of vets always out there who would be had cheaper to back up. No need to rush to sign Boller, they could have waited. Obviously they did this early to avoid competition for his services in the off-season.

That coupled with Troy Smith not impressing enough for them to consider him a legit backup next season, is why Boller was re-signed.

This doesn't mean he is heir apparent but you don't make an effort to sign a backup only ahead of time. Not unless you think there might be more.

Then why sign him to a 1 year deal? If Boller is so happy being here and the Ravens are still that enamoured with him, then why not get him signed to a 4 year deal? I think we can all agree that the longest McNair sticks around is 2 years. So why not lock Boller up for a few years after McNair is gone if they think he's got more? Me? I think they like him as a backup and knew he'd bite on a 1 year deal that let's them be flexible after this season with regard to getting a long term QB in here. Signing McNair last year was a major sign of where Boller stood with this team. Has he improved enough under McNair to warrant being a backup? Maybe. But that's about it.

Do you agree that he's the clear backup right now? I would assume everyone does.

Do you agree that if McNair comes back next year that he will again be the clear backup? Maybe you do, maybe you don't but I do.

Boller even stated himself that the Leftwich option prompted the talks about an extension and he took it. Why is that?

I will grant this. He will compete for the starting job if McNair isn't back next year. That's the only way IMO. And right now, it stands to reason that McNair will be back and Boller will be the backup again in the last year of his contract.

And Troy Smith is an almost non factor right now with regards to our immediate future at QB.

Also, I believe you will see the Ravens spend a 1st day draft pick on a QB in the 08 draft and not later than the 09 draft.

PP

[evade6317]

You're joking, right? Boller haters are notorious for applying one standard to him and another to.... well, any other QB who has ever played an NFL game. :laugh:

Circular logic, straw man arguments, double standards, and just plain made up "facts" are all standard stuff for a Hater. And my personal favorite, when presented with facts that dispute a claim, just ignore that post!

As for being condescending, don't blame me, you make it easy.

Let's hear some specifics. I know huggers like to say Boller is a winning QB and tout his record only to have McNair's 13-4 rubbed in their face.

When Boller plays like shit, the huggers find someone else to blame. When McNair plays like shit, they don't extend the same courtesy.

Huggers then like to pick and choose single game performances of Boller's (Minny, GB, Carolina, the preseason :insane: ), and then point out McNair's worst performances (Cincy, Denver, Indy) as reasons Boller is better, but won't accept it the other way around.

Huggers like to look down on McNair for being just the 14th ranked QB in the NFL, but ignore the fact that Boller couldn't break the 30th spot.

Huggers like to imply that McNair is more injury prone, yet they ignore the fact that Boller missed more games due to injury in his career as a starter than McNair did in the same timespan. In a nutshell, Boller has a worse injury rate than McNair.

Arm strength is all they can come up with. Yet it doesn't matter because McNair can do the job Kyle can't. And you don't see arm strength holding back Garcia or Pennington do you? You don't because they all have something Boller is just starting to grasp; accuracy and playmaking ability.

Let's hear your examples FHR.

[FHRaven]

Let's hear some specifics. I know huggers like to say Boller is a winning QB and tout his record only to have McNair's 13-4 rubbed in their face.

When Boller plays like shit, the huggers find someone else to blame. When McNair plays like shit, they don't extend the same courtesy.

Huggers then like to pick and choose single game performances of Boller's (Minny, GB, Carolina, the preseason :insane: ), and then point out McNair's worst performances (Cincy, Denver, Indy) as reasons Boller is better, but won't accept it the other way around.

Huggers like to look down on McNair for being just the 14th ranked QB in the NFL, but ignore the fact that Boller couldn't break the 30th spot.

Huggers like to imply that McNair is more injury prone, yet they ignore the fact that Boller missed more games due to injury in his career as a starter than McNair did in the same timespan. In a nutshell, Boller has a worse injury rate than McNair.

Arm strength is all they can come up with. Yet it doesn't matter because McNair can do the job Kyle can't. And you don't see arm strength holding back Garcia or Pennington do you? You don't because they all have something Boller is just starting to grasp; accuracy and playmaking ability.

Let's hear your examples FHR.

Wow, just about everything you listed is exactly the OPPOSITE of what has been said by the Haters going back to the Boller/Wright debates.

I'll just pick the Indy playoff game for example. For years, I'll I ever heard from posters like you was, "Boller is not a big game QB", "how many pro bowlers does Boller need to be successful", "we're just a QB away from the SB" and as you incorrectly noted above, "everyone is to blame but Boller".

Then McChoke blows a HOME playoff game where the defense played their ASSES off to hold the Colts to next to nothing. And what do hear from the Haters? Oh well, Heap shouldn't have fumbled. Oh, the game plan was bad. Oh well, the 2 INTS didn't really hurt us, we couldn't run the ball. :179421: Excuses, excuses, excuses.

McChoke blew it in the big game. How many pro bowlers does he need to be successful? And I guess they all need to play perfectly. And now suddenly the game plan matters? But Boller being saddled with Cav. didn't?

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I don't find you all a bit hypocritical.

I could go on and bring up how you all thought AW was the QB solution but everyone saw how badly that worked out. Though I never did hear from one Hater when I asked, if you were 100% wrong is assessing AW as the QB solution, isn't is possible you're also wrong in your assessment of Boller? I guess self-doubt is a bitch.

[ClericBlackDave]

If I hear someone scream again "why is it a 1 year deal" I'm going to scream.

Why? Because its the perfect scenario for both parties.

Boller gets 3 mil for another year and likely another shot to be starter. And if not gets to test free agency in another year. I doubt he'd have signed a multi year deal to be backup as he wants to start.

The team, while encouraged by Boller's improvement, doesn't have to commit to more than another year, but this gives them another year to evaluate, have the 3rd ranked backup QB on the team as insurance, and ready to start if McNair gets injured (likely) or hangs it up (likely if we don't go on a playoff run this season)


Its win win for all parties, win win for Ravens fans, just not win win for Boller haters who still want to see him as teh same QB who came to the Ravens as a 21 year old raw rookie Tedford QB.

[purplepoe]

If I hear someone scream again "why is it a 1 year deal" I'm going to scream.

Why? Because its the perfect scenario for both parties.

Boller gets 3 mil for another year and likely another shot to be starter. And if not gets to test free agency in another year. I doubt he'd have signed a multi year deal to be backup as he wants to start.

The team, while encouraged by Boller's improvement, doesn't have to commit to more than another year, but this gives them another year to evaluate, have the 3rd ranked backup QB on the team as insurance, and ready to start if McNair gets injured (likely) or hangs it up (likely if we don't go on a playoff run this season)


Its win win for all parties, win win for Ravens fans, just not win win for Boller haters who still want to see him as teh same QB who came to the Ravens as a 21 year old raw rookie Tedford QB.


If I hear someone say he's likely to get another shot to start, Im gonna scream.

He starts if McNair goes down. That's the same shot every backup has.

Thank god the regular season is here so we can talk about what happens on the field.

PP

[Hook]

Wow, just about everything you listed is exactly the OPPOSITE of what has been said by the Haters going back to the Boller/Wright debates.
I had to jump in
when I saw this post
"Wright/Boller"?
Were talking about Mcnair
not that loser Anthony Wright.
You lost many at this juncture in your post.
as many of the people
who were for boller at that
time have now given up
and now root for the starter
Steve Mcnair.


Also one game or a few games
including a playoff game
should not be a yard stick
of ones abilitiy
look at the entire career.

and that is where you will see the difference
and why boller was given a 1 year deal,
worth only a few mill
unlike great stars
many huggers try to compare him to
mannings, farves, and troy aikmans (even phil simms.)
they get brink trunk signing bonuses.
They get 10 year deals.
they get to start too.

[evade6317]

Wow, just about everything you listed is exactly the OPPOSITE of what has been said by the Haters going back to the Boller/Wright debates.

I'll just pick the Indy playoff game for example. For years, I'll I ever heard from posters like you was, "Boller is not a big game QB", "how many pro bowlers does Boller need to be successful", "we're just a QB away from the SB" and as you incorrectly noted above, "everyone is to blame but Boller".

Then McChoke blows a HOME playoff game where the defense played their ASSES off to hold the Colts to next to nothing. And what do hear from the Haters? Oh well, Heap shouldn't have fumbled. Oh, the game plan was bad. Oh well, the 2 INTS didn't really hurt us, we couldn't run the ball. :179421: Excuses, excuses, excuses.

And there, plain as day, is the hugger inconsistency. McNair has a great season, by Ravens standards, he loses the playoff game and huggers say we should toss him. Yet Boller has given us some of the worst QB production in team history, and some of the most embarrassing performances ever seen but huggers still try to justify starting Boller over McNair.

Hugger biased mentality = McNair fucks up once; can him. Boller fucks up game in game out for several seasons; he needs more opportunity.


McChoke blew it in the big game. How many pro bowlers does he need to be successful? And I guess they all need to play perfectly. And now suddenly the game plan matters? But Boller being saddled with Cav. didn't?

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I don't find you all a bit hypocritical.

I could go on and bring up how you all thought AW was the QB solution but everyone saw how badly that worked out. Though I never did hear from one Hater when I asked, if you were 100% wrong is assessing AW as the QB solution, isn't is possible you're also wrong in your assessment of Boller? I guess self-doubt is a bitch.

Again, you focus on one game with McNair when comparing him to Boller and ignore how much success he had with the same team, with a limited training camp and abbreviated playbook over the course of the season. McNair was very successful when compared to Boller and huggers won't admit it. Yet you will split hairs in a futile attempt to tip the scales in Boller's favor.

Let me give you an example. McNair threw for more yards(3,050), had a better completion % (63%), and had a rating that Boller wish he could get as a starter (82.5) all while being with a new team, in a new system, for a much shorter time.

So what will the huggers say? Boller didn't have as good a line, DWill, Trevor Pryce, DWill, playcalling, yada yada yada. Talk about hindsight bias.

No matter what you can fabricate in your head, it makes absolutely no sense to pull McNair in favor of Boller. Why? Because McNair is more productive and Boller is not. It's a fact.

And you want to bring up AW huh? Do you really want to compare a former UDFA's statistical output for the Ravens to a former 1st round pick and see how similar they are? Because you can only come to two conclusions by doing so. Either, AW is almost 1st round talent, or that Boller is almost UDFA talent. Because their stats in Baltimore are almost identical.

Of course the natural thing for a hugger is to bring up AW's stats with Dallas to discredit him. But if I bring up McNair's stats with Tennessee, I'm not being fair.

Keep chasing your tail FHR.

[Purpleguy]

I will say one thing. I can't think of too many teams that have relegated a first round QB to back-up status, then resigned him to an above average back-up deal once his initial contract expired. It sure is a peculiar move by one of the better front offices in the game. I'm sure that there could have been countless aging vets with comparable if not better numbers than Boller to sign next year to back-up McNair. I mean, if all you are looking for is a back-up what's the point of giving Boller 3 mil next year, only to have to start over in 2009? Why would Boller sign such a deal when he may have had a chance to step in this year and shine and possibly get a decent starters contract with another team? Unless he signed the deal after a wink and a nudge?

I can see why some of you folks are acting like the apocalypse has began with this extension. It's peculiarness has to leave some scary thought in the back of your minds that Boller may just be our QB of the future.

[highwater]

They signed Boller to another year because they haven't given up on him. If he was not considered an option to ever compete for a starting job here they would have moved on. There are any number of vets always out there who would be had cheaper to back up.

Bingo. I find this hand-wringing from haters over this extension predictable but somehow amusing -- I seem to recall many people (not just Boller-haters, btw) insisting that the Ravens FO would never extend him. And now that he's been extended, what do we hear? "They only extended him for one year!" Well, so what? It's one more year, at about $3 million according to reports, which is a healthy salary for a backup QB. That means he's here for two more years, which means, as Greg suggests, that the FO hasn't given up on him just yet. This is not hard to understand.

And speaking of understanding, Tex, you are simply in over your heard here. Either that, or you simply don't read the answers to the questions that you repeatedly post. You ask a question, it gets answered, and then you eventually ask it again with some lame comment like "No one ever answers this question!" Yeah, it has in fact been answered, you just ignore it.

Your ridiculous rants about Boller make the other Boller critics look bad, because sadly they are getting associated with you (against their wishes, I'm sure). They often have legitimate points and are able to make them without being a bore. You should take notes from them.

[baltravens20]

So, Does this mean no deal with Leftwich? Boller makes nice backup qb but I think Troy Smith is the future of the team.:kewl:

[Purpleguy]

What makes you think Troy Smith is the future? Is it his Heisman trophy? His superb accuracy? His NFL size? Wally Williams was a better third stringer than Troy Smith.

[Heap86]

The hatred by some on this board of Steve McNair is borderline Trollish.

This board is starting to get as bad as YBR.

McNair is garbage because he has a "Noodle Arm" and failed to lead this team to the Superbowl in his first season with the team.

He led us to the best season in Franchise History, and save the "Defense did it all" BS, because its not true. McNair had the best overall rating of any QB since Vinny T, but since McNair doesn't throw bullets every attempt like Boller, he is old, Dead Armed and washed up.

None of you guys like Mista T or ClericBlackDave give McNair any credit at all. I don't think I've heard any of those guys say anything good about McNair. I know that Mista T has hated McNair since we traded for him. Thats kind of unlike a Moderater of a Message board to act so trollish.

And its comical that some of the same guys, not all, think Kyle Boller is the future of this Franchise after years of poor performances.

I really think some of you are in love with How well Boller throws a pass, the zip and velocity of his passes must give some of you guys Hard Ons.

I would rather have a QB who is older, more experianced and makes prudent decisions on the field than a QB who can wing bullets down the field and make stupid mistakes under pressure.

Flame away, but I haven't seen enough consistant play of Boller to prove to me that he can be an NFL starter.

In my opinion he is right where he belongs, #2 on the depth chart.

[baltravens20]

I agree that Mac 9 gives us the best option to win, he is smart and every season besides his rookie year had completed 60% of his passes. I wonder his health is gonna last all 16 games due to hard knocks in Tennessee, But I do wish he would run more when being pressured, just like he did to us with the Titans. But if Dilfer can lead us to a ring , so can McN:kewl: air

[baltravens20]

What makes you think Troy Smith is the future? Is it his Heisman trophy? His superb accuracy? His NFL size? Wally Williams was a better third stringer than Troy Smith.

He is a proven winner in College, works hard, is mobile and doesn't make careless decisions like boller has throughout his career. Plus flutie was a small qb and he would have had an awesome career if given the chance.

[Greg]

Then why sign him to a 1 year deal? If Boller is so happy being here and the Ravens are still that enamoured with him, then why not get him signed to a 4 year deal?
Because neither side wants to commit longer. Boller isn't about to stay longer without a shot at starting, which he could get any number of places. If you doubt that you missed a few games yesterday. Atlanta, Miami, KC, Chicago, Oakland, etc. Those plus a few more would be places he would have a legitimate shot at the starting job. Please don't deny this.

And the Ravens don't want to commit to a longer deal that most certainly would have included a signing bonus without seeing more.

If the Ravens have committed $3 million I don't see how it could be seen as a backup only signing. Quality vets could be had for less.

[crazyraven]

Boller gets 3 mil for another year and likely another shot to be starter. And if not gets to test free agency in another year. I doubt he'd have signed a multi year deal to be backup as he wants to start.
yea he could and he could also get cut. NFL contracts are not guarenteed.

if mcnair is not here next season, with the way Boller plays in preseason, who ever they bring in should be able to take Bollers job. So dont even start with him being a starter, he has always looked terrible and unsure of himself.

And why wouldnt Boller test the free agent market next season? Ive heard many of the huggers of the world saying that there are many teams out there who need a starter the caliber of Kyle boller. Why stay on as a backup unless your happy as the backup?

The ravens wouldnt be in the market still for his services? Boller made a mistake and it appears as if he was strongarmed into taking this deal. and quite honestly its Because he has no realistic options elsewhere. The deal he signed is nothing to toot your horn about other than that he is still on the team as a back up.

[FHRaven]

And there, plain as day, is the hugger inconsistency. McNair has a great season, by Ravens standards, he loses the playoff game and huggers say we should toss him. Yet Boller has given us some of the worst QB production in team history, and some of the most embarrassing performances ever seen but huggers still try to justify starting Boller over McNair.

Hugger biased mentality = McNair fucks up once; can him. Boller fucks up game in game out for several seasons; he needs more opportunity.



Again, you focus on one game with McNair when comparing him to Boller and ignore how much success he had with the same team, with a limited training camp and abbreviated playbook over the course of the season. McNair was very successful when compared to Boller and huggers won't admit it. Yet you will split hairs in a futile attempt to tip the scales in Boller's favor.

Let me give you an example. McNair threw for more yards(3,050), had a better completion % (63%), and had a rating that Boller wish he could get as a starter (82.5) all while being with a new team, in a new system, for a much shorter time.

So what will the huggers say? Boller didn't have as good a line, DWill, Trevor Pryce, DWill, playcalling, yada yada yada. Talk about hindsight bias.

No matter what you can fabricate in your head, it makes absolutely no sense to pull McNair in favor of Boller. Why? Because McNair is more productive and Boller is not. It's a fact.

And you want to bring up AW huh? Do you really want to compare a former UDFA's statistical output for the Ravens to a former 1st round pick and see how similar they are? Because you can only come to two conclusions by doing so. Either, AW is almost 1st round talent, or that Boller is almost UDFA talent. Because their stats in Baltimore are almost identical.

Of course the natural thing for a hugger is to bring up AW's stats with Dallas to discredit him. But if I bring up McNair's stats with Tennessee, I'm not being fair.

Keep chasing your tail FHR.

Nice effort, but way off base as usual. Where did I ever say Boller should start over McNair?

You asked for inconsistencies is the way Haters judged Boller vs any other QB and I gave it to you.

You diminish the playoff game. That game did count, right? McNair did McChoke, right? All I ever heard from Haters was how Boller was keeping us from the SB and he should be lynched for it. McChoke blows the game and a likely 2nd SB for the Ravens and it's just one game. Hello!!! The playoffs are what really matters!! Who the fuck cares if McNair goes 16-0 and then blows another home playoff game. :thumbdown:

And then you try to bring McNair rating? Please. Here's the only relevant comparison you can make: with the same team and players, last year McNair had rating of 82, Boller had a 104. Funny, isn't it? All I've said about Boller is that I'd like to see him get to play with some talent on offense rather than the dregs he had at early in his career. Low and behold, better talent, better numbers. Better than McNairs.

As far a AW goes, you and the other Haters continue to obsess on Bollers draft status. It's irrelevant. Fact, you and others thought AW was the QB we needed to make it to the SB. He was putrid and he was a veteran. Boller is improving. Deal with it.

I wish I had a psychology degree. The rage that the Haters fly into when anyone tries to say something positive about Boller is bizarre. No capacity to reason, no ability to see things objectively, just a blind, unthinking rage. It's mind boggling. Some of them are so obsessed (Tex) that he can't post anything in any thread with relating it Boller. I'm starting to remember why I gave up trying to educate them. They lose all higher level brain functions when the issue is Boller.

[FHRaven]

Oh yeah, I forgot this classic.


Again, you focus on one game with McNair when comparing him to Boller and ignore how much success he had with the same team, with a limited training camp and abbreviated playbook over the course of the season.

So the Haters don't make excuses for QBs? I would have thought that a veteran like McNair would have caught on to the playbook and overcome missing some training camp by the playoffs. Sounds like an excuse to me. :rolleyes:

[evade6317]

Nice effort, but way off base as usual. Where did I ever say Boller should start over McNair?

When were we being specific to just you and me? We are generalizing huggers and haters. Obviously, you and the hugger clan believe Boller is the better QB. Why wouldn't you think he should start considering your beliefs?


You asked for inconsistencies is the way Haters judged Boller vs any other QB and I gave it to you.

You diminish the playoff game. That game did count, right? McNair did McChoke, right? All I ever heard from Haters was how Boller was keeping us from the SB and he should be lynched for it. McChoke blows the game and a likely 2nd SB for the Ravens and it's just one game. Hello!!! The playoffs are what really matters!! Who the fuck cares if McNair goes 16-0 and then blows another home playoff game. :thumbdown:

I didn't diminish shit. He played poorly, but Boller is not an improvement. Boller would fuck up the season let alone a playoff game. Sure, our D would more than likely get us to a 10-6 record, but that would be just good enough for a wild card road game. We all know how Boller performs on the road no matter the caliber of the team. McNair did choke against the Colts, but he's by far the Ravens best option, is he not?


And then you try to bring McNair rating? Please. Here's the only relevant comparison you can make: with the same team and players, last year McNair had rating of 82, Boller had a 104. Funny, isn't it? All I've said about Boller is that I'd like to see him get to play with some talent on offense rather than the dregs he had at early in his career. Low and behold, better talent, better numbers. Better than McNairs.

You also left out "way fewer attempts to be worthy of comparison" and some serious luck against Carolina.

:rolling: I knew your lame ass would bring up Boller's "amazing" 104 rating. Allow me to ignore the absurd circumstances that got Boller such a high rating and let me apply your hugger talent evaluation to the rest of the NFL.

*searches the QB ratings from last season*

Holy crap!! Ryan Longwell and Mewelde Moore were the best QBs in the NFL last year with both having ratings of 158.3!!!! Testeverde is back to form with a 137.5!!!! We should get him back!!!! Even AW outplayed Boller last year with a 109.7!!!! We should have never let him go!!! All of those guys are better than Boller and light years ahead of McNair!!!

*gets head out of clouds*

Boller had a total of 55 attempts last season. McNair had 486. Not a worthy comparison to a reasonable person. But since you are unreasonable, I played your game and and beat you at it. More evidence of the hugger double standard.



As far a AW goes, you and the other Haters continue to obsess on Bollers draft status. It's irrelevant. Fact, you and others thought AW was the QB we needed to make it to the SB. He was putrid and he was a veteran. Boller is improving. Deal with it.

You're wrong. The argument was that AW was equal to or better than Boller for a fraction of the cost. And the stats show it. Boller is improving and I have no problem with that. But he's not at the level to be the starting QB of the Ravens. Deal with it.


I wish I had a psychology degree. The rage that the Haters fly into when anyone tries to say something positive about Boller is bizarre. No capacity to reason, no ability to see things objectively, just a blind, unthinking rage. It's mind boggling. Some of them are so obsessed (Tex) that he can't post anything in any thread with relating it Boller. I'm starting to remember why I gave up trying to educate them. They lose all higher level brain functions when the issue is Boller.

I have a psychology minor. You huggers have text book cases of denial. When Boller performs horribly, you all say it isn't that bad and immediately pass the blame elsewhere. That's called denial of responsibility. Common with abused spouses.

You cherry pick your facts in which to put Boller in the same light as other top flight QBs and ignore his history of basement dwelling performances. That's called denial of fact. You omit the condemning evidence and remind others of the only evidence that will help your case. Common tactic used with defense attorneys.

You also like to downplay Boller's draft status and responsibility as the teams former starting/franchise QB. This is referred to as denial of impact. It's a mechanism used to minimize or eliminate guilt. Abusive parents usually use this tactic when first confronted with their mistakes and put the blame on their children first.

Of course the next logical move for you is to reject the overwhelming evidence I have just presented you (basic denial), or to discount the magnitude of the facts (minimization), or you will admit both the facts and their magnitude but pass the blame to someone or something else other than Boller (transference).

I did a research paper and presentation on denial for my sociology course. You all have it.:insane:


Oh yeah, I forgot this classic.



So the Haters don't make excuses for QBs? I would have thought that a veteran like McNair would have caught on to the playbook and overcome missing some training camp by the playoffs. Sounds like an excuse to me. :rolleyes:

That's not an excuse, it's a comparison in favor of McNair. He did more with less time implying that he is more talented.

An excuse would be along the lines of saying the INTs were not his fault because of his minimal TC time. No one has ever said anything like that.

The fact that he had limited time with the team and helped LEAD them to the best record in team history is enough of evidence to lobby that he deserves another chance despite of his showing in the playoffs.

[FHRaven]

Sigh.

I don't know what's sadder, that you can't see that you're doing everything that you accuse the Huggers of, or that you have a psych minor and you still aren't self aware enough to see it. This is why I gave up trying to educate you and the rest of Haters. It's like banging your head against the wall.

The Boller Hater rage of insanity goes on I guess. :insane:

[evade6317]

What's sad is that you won't even try to argue the points I brought up when I at least respected your post and argued yours. It's clear the type of man you are.

I used your criteria and buried you with it. One easy example: You pointed out Boller's 2006 rating vs McNair's without giving regard to the unbalanced circumstances. I did the same and showed how many sub par QB's have better ratings as well.

Judging QBs in the way YOU had judged McNair vs Boller, I made you and anyone else pointing out that stat look like fools.

If you can't admit this truth, then you're bias is clear.

[FHRaven]

:insane:

Look, you asked for examples and I gave them to you. Then you proceeded to do EXACTLY what you accuse Huggers of doing and I pointed it out to you. And yet you still have your head buried in the sand. Why should I spend more time responding when you're proving my point?

I gave up spending a lot time trying to reason with the Boller-Ragers after they were proven wrong with their "AW is the savior" routine. Some people on these message boards have staked their online existence on the fact the Boller is the ultimate evil. To admit they are wrong would be too crippling. You're beyond help.

As far burying me :rolling: When you get something right regarding this team, then perhaps you can use that term.

[FHRaven]

I used your criteria and buried you with it. One easy example: You pointed out Boller's 2006 rating vs McNair's without giving regard to the unbalanced circumstances. I did the same and showed how many sub par QB's have better ratings as well.

Judging QBs in the way YOU had judged McNair vs Boller, I made you and anyone else pointing out that stat look like fools.

If you can't admit this truth, then you're bias is clear.

I should at least address this. So do QB ratings count or not? Because all I hear from Haters is selective use of it. Just like you did. It's okay to ignore good ratings, but we include the bad ones? Suddenly the CIRCUMSTANCES matter? Really? That's not what the Haters have been saying for years. If anyone mentioned a games CIRCUMSTANCES in support of Boller, why then he was just making excuses.

Are we allowed to count the GB and Minn games that Kyle played? Or should we selectively remove them as well?

Could you be more hypocritical?

I'd say you're the one with the bias issues.

[tex_fan]

I think of all the players in NFL Kyle Boller is probably the most hated one when it comes to his own fans. I don't think he is that bad, he has all the tools, and yeah I do believe he can help this team more than McNair now.

[highwater]

you need to start watching more football, like non-stop so you can see what a good QB looks like

Great advice -- now look in a mirror and repeat it over and over and over.

[tex_fan]

Since you are a fan of me, I will give you a pointer. If you think Boller isn't bad you need to start watching more football, like non-stop so you can see what a good QB looks like!:laugh: :D

I am your fan no doubt so thanks a lot for giving me a timely pointer, but I think I do watch a fair amount of football, and for me a good QB definitely does not look like Steve Mcnair (who is past his prime). He is nowhere near level of Manning, Palmer, and Brady, or you think he is better than all of these three guys?

[evade6317]

I should at least address this. So do QB ratings count or not? Because all I hear from Haters is selective use of it. Just like you did.

If we are playing by your rules it does. Under your rules, Boller's QB rating in '06 make him a better QB. However, under your rules AW is a better QB than Boller.



It's okay to ignore good ratings, but we include the bad ones? Suddenly the CIRCUMSTANCES matter? Really? That's not what the Haters have been saying for years. If anyone mentioned a games CIRCUMSTANCES in support of Boller, why then he was just making excuses.

Are we allowed to count the GB and Minn games that Kyle played? Or should we selectively remove them as well?

Could you be more hypocritical?

I'd say you're the one with the bias issues.

Here's the problem with when you pick and choose what stats or ratings of Boller's to flaunt, you pretend the majority of the time that he played horribly doesn't matter. Example: Huggers want to nut up over the Minny and GB games, yet they conveniently forget about the eggs he layed in Cleveland right after, or the game in Jax, or in Denver.

What's next, you're going to point out that Boller had a rating of 95.8 for the month of November last season compared to McNair's 90.1 and then call us hypocrites for knit picking?

So again, you choose the rules. If you want to be selective about what games Boller has shined, then allow his critics to point out the games in which he embarrassed us. Because you know and I know, he has been more embarrassing than competent.

Another disparity, Boller looks awful the huggers come out in droves to defend him and basically wash away any blame that should go his way. However, with McNair playing like shit on Monday, I don't see any haters coming to McNair's aid in the same way the huggers have protected Boller. Why? Because we could see that he played badly.

Another example: Boller overthrows Kevin Johnson in an attempt to comeback against the Chiefs. KJ dives for the ball, and it bounces out of his outstretched hand. Haters: Boller should have thrown it better. Huggers: KJ should have caught it, it touched him in the hands. It's KJ's fault, not Bollers.
McNair overthrows Mason in an attempt to comeback against the Bengals. Mason goes way up for the ball, it goes through his hands and gets picked.
Huggers: It was a poor throw by McNair. Haters: It was a poor throw by McNair.

Where's the bias now?

And for the record, as bad as McNair played, he made completions that no other QB in the NFL could have made, and that is the reason I am willing to ride him out until he has nothing left.