Bitch & Moan All You Want! [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

ravensfan1996

10-01-2006, 10:14 PM

Yeah im sick of the "Boller could be doing what mcnair has done blah blah blah" or the "what if boller was the qb winning these games"

The facts are when the game is on the line mcnair steps it up and performs. I dont know what he is doing the othe 50 mins of the game though. hehe But seriously the ravens lost the turnover war but ended up winning anyway. The D believes in Mcnair and obviously SD didnt and lost.

Mista T

10-01-2006, 10:17 PM

We all are excited as can be about being 4-0. Is any Ravens fan unhappy with the improvement over 6-10?

That stated: if anyone doesn't want to have critical discussion about Ravens football, don't bother to visit message boards. Until Jamal garners 300 yards, McNair is 30 for 30 with 5 TDs, Billick stops wasting time-outs, and the Defense tosses another shutout, there will always be something to criticize. We can be cheerleaders while simultaneously recognizing areas for improvement.

52RAYVENS

10-01-2006, 10:23 PM

Mista T

10-01-2006, 10:25 PM

One man's "bitchin' " is another man's "intelligent analysis of areas that need improvement"! :laugh:

:mrt:

darb72

10-01-2006, 10:25 PM

camdenyard

10-01-2006, 10:25 PM

And there is a shitload of improvement to be made. How about developing a rudimentary running game, for example. We had 45 yards at halftime. At home. That is path-et-ic.

Right now, we're doing it with mirrors. Don't expect a 4th quarter miracle every game.

F Angelos

10-01-2006, 10:35 PM

How about you realize this is a football DISCUSSION FORUM, so we're probably going to discuss football?

Now if the big topic is why McNair is the worst QB in the league for 56 minutes a week then there are going to be threads on why McNair sucks for 56 minutes.

So far the comparisons between he and Boller have merit since McNair is having exactly the same problems as Boller.
-Tripping from under center.
-Botched center/QB exchanges.
-Way to much pressure.
-Inaccurate passes.

If you feel that you have something to add to any of these conversations, then by all means speak up.

Now if you feel more comfortable dressed in a pleated skirt and shaking a pair of pom-poms then please stick to making, "We're 4-0 Baby!!!", threads and leave the intelligent football discussion to those who actually know what they're/we're talking about.

Thanks.

He was not bad for 56 minutes today. Between Mason losing a TD in the sun to Wilcox's fumble we could have won this game in a walk and everyone would be talking about McNair's 4 TD passes. Things need to get better in the run and pass but have some perspective, every fan base in the league except Chicago has something to bitch about. Ind and Cin can't stop anybody, M Vick can't break the 200 yd passing barrier, Jake the fake is playing like doo-doo and don't get me started on the overrated Dolphins,Bucs,or Cards.

Heap86

10-01-2006, 10:36 PM

So far the comparisons between he and Boller have merit since McNair is having exactly the same problems as Boller.
-Tripping from under center.
-Botched center/QB exchanges.
-Way to much pressure.
-Inaccurate passes.

Way to go, bringing Boller in to this thread :thumbup:

Did I miss something? Is this a Boller thread.

My question is if Boller goes to another team, will we still be hearing excuses?

darb72

10-01-2006, 10:43 PM

Or his two INTs?
Or the fact that in yet another game he was wildly inaccurate to the point that we're no longer sure who exactly he's throwing to?

These are exactly the same problems that Boller had. Inconsistant. The only difference is that the defense isn't allowing more than 14 points a game.

Now do you have any ideas as to what causes this inconsistancy, or are you the type who looks at the final score and says, "We won so we must have been perfect in every phase of the game."

If you're the former then by all means let's talk.

If you're the later, please put me on your ignore list.

StingerNLG

10-01-2006, 10:58 PM

Remember Darb, McNair gets the "free pass" because he's Steve McNair. That's all you need to know about this discussion and why a serious discussion on this inept offense isn't going ever go anywhere while people can bury their head in the sand and scream 4-0. It's an understandable trait because we haven't been 4-0 in the team's history.

But as long as we get the ugly wins where the defense basically has to stay on the field and play out of their minds, then the over 59 minutes of offense will get overlooked. No one cares about McNair throwing passes right to Chargers, or Wilcox basically dropping the ball in his hands and Billick using his last timeout on a stupid challenge that everyone in the stadium knew was the right call, or Mason not turning around to see a ball coming his way, or the running game only netting 56 yards total.

We just need to hope the defense can keep us within 7.

darb72

10-01-2006, 11:06 PM

You're right.

Though you forgot our inability to actually pick up short yardage third-downs.

RAVENOUS52

10-01-2006, 11:14 PM

Granted there is lots of room to be happy with a perfect 4-0 record, there is lots of room for concern as well. Do you really think we would've won if we weren't at home today?

Our deficiencies are glaring and we need to correct them before they come back to kick us in the nards...

StingerNLG

10-01-2006, 11:18 PM

Though you forgot our inability to actually pick up short yardage third-downs.

I was trying to leave out our 2.7 YPC and 4-11 on 3rd down conversions because I didn't want to too much of a killjoy.

Heap86

10-01-2006, 11:24 PM

But as long as we get the ugly wins where the defense basically has to stay on the field and play out of their minds, then the over 59 minutes of offense will get overlooked

Do you have a problem with ugly wins? they are wins aren't they? I really don't think about how the Offense or Defense played in a win, in a loss sure, but not a win. I'll admit, I am happy with ugly wins, because they are wins.

Maybe you would rather see teams go on a performance system, then a points system.

Sure they have to get better on Offense, but how can you get pissed with a win? Would you rather they have lost the game, and your points would hold more ground?

Maybe we should let McNair lose a game first before throwing him under the bus, weither its pretty or not, he has been winning games.

I was trying to leave out our 2.7 YPC and 4-11 on 3rd down conversions because I didn't want to too much of a killjoy.

Oh no, nobody could ever accuse you of that.

FadeToBlack

10-01-2006, 11:43 PM

Or his two INTs?
Or the fact that in yet another game he was wildly inaccurate to the point that we're no longer sure who exactly he's throwing to?

These are exactly the same problems that Boller had. Inconsistant. The only difference is that the defense isn't allowing more than 14 points a game.

No, the difference is we're 4-0 and not 2-2, with 2 of those wins coming in a fashion previously unattainable under you know who. You can spin it any way you want but one of our QBs got benched, one of our QBs got a contract to come here and start and suddenly we're pulling out these 4th quarter comebacks and winning on the road. Hmmm, must be the addition of Dawan Landry, Trevor Pryce and Haloti Ngata! :rolleyes:

darb72

10-01-2006, 11:47 PM

I was trying to leave out our 2.7 YPC and 4-11 on 3rd down conversions because I didn't want to too much of a killjoy.

At one point in the third quarter, our average YTG on third down was 10.5.

That means that instead of picking up a few yards on first and second down, we actually managed to LOSE yards on those plays. Not exactly what you're looking for out of an offense.

StingerNLG

10-01-2006, 11:54 PM

This message is hidden because Heap86 is on your ignore list.

I don't know why you keep trying to reply to me. Now back to people who don't reek of YBR attitude......

At one point in the third quarter, our average YTG on third down was 10.5.

Lewis - 15 attempts for 34 yards.

And why exactly did we sign Mike Anderson again? I'm trying to remember. He took 1 snap and got 0 yards.

suddenly we're pulling out these 4th quarter comebacks

Hmmmmm, I thought we wouldn't have to have any 4th quarter comebacks with said QB. I was under the impression teams had to be scared of us.

FadeToBlack

10-01-2006, 11:58 PM

When your defense believes their quarterback can make the plays to win games, you'll be surprised how much better they'll play.

I'll say it again: the defense's biggest acquisition wasn't Landry, Ngata or Pryce. It was a guy who doesn't play defense at all. It's a guy who wills his way to victory the way that other guy couldn't. Perception is reality, and their perception is McNair is the answer, and in the past 2 games, they made that a reality.

darb72

10-01-2006, 11:58 PM

But Stinger, Jamal has to be gaining more yards than that because teams aren't stacking the bo...

Oh wait a minute.

FadeToBlack

10-02-2006, 12:01 AM

Hmmmmm, I thought we wouldn't have to have any 4th quarter comebacks with said QB. I was under the impression teams had to be scared of us.

Nah, they don't need to worry about us at all. Until the 4th quarter.

Heap86

10-02-2006, 12:06 AM

I don't know why you keep trying to reply to me. Now back to people who don't reek of YBR attitude......

Sweet Guy Huh :eyes:

AZRAVEN

10-02-2006, 12:14 AM

4-0 is great but I must say I am concerned about the apparent ineptitude we show for most of the game, I didn't expect that with McNair. Last second miracles have a tendancy to run out after awhile and we are just starting the hard part of our schedule. What is wrong with the running game, it's worse now than it's ever been are we just focusing to much on McNair's passing game?

FadeToBlack

10-02-2006, 12:20 AM

McNair is learning a new offense. Apparently he didn't need to learn how to win football games.

darb72

10-02-2006, 12:28 AM

Actually AZ we're running the ball exactly the same as we did last year.

Last year 3.6 YPA
This year 3.6 YPA

Last year 28 carries a game
This year 30 carries a game

This offense has always sucked, no matter who the QB is.

Brandon

10-02-2006, 05:32 AM

You won't get any bitching from me. We are 4-0 for the first time in Franchise History, and we have found a way to win win it matters.

GO RAVENS!

ravensfan1996

10-02-2006, 05:40 AM

I dont think anyone would say that they were pleased with our offense and wouldnt change a thing. We all expected alot more then the offense has shown so far. All the what-ifs dont matter since we are 4-0. Until we lose a game because of our offense all those stats and bad plays dont mean much. Remember 2000? not pretty but effective. We have a guy now that when he needs to really turns it up a notch.

RavenTD

10-02-2006, 06:01 AM

I wonder if Seahawk fans are talking up Seneca Wallace over Matt Hasselback after lastnights game?

McNair is 4-0 playing 90% rusty.

I hope no one expected McNair to throw 300yds and 3td's a game.
He is doing what he is paid to do,get the team wins.Carry this team
on his back.Have the whole team believe in the QB position.

McNair is 4-0 90% rusty.Watch that rust drop off.There was a pass to Heap
I think near the end of the 3rd Q,that baby was a frozen rope.And my eyes almost popped out.We are seeing flashes of what McNair can bring,be
patient and watch it grow.

bassgtrst

10-02-2006, 06:04 AM

What we really need is to get to our bye week with atleast 1 win.

That will give up time to work on McNair mechanical issues. Which shouldnt be a problem with a vet QB, but it is so we have to deal with it.

The thing that sucks is Denver will play us off a bye, as will Carolina. After our bye we play NO, who is also coming off of their bye. Tags screwed us over with the scheduling this year as a last hurrah.

RavensFanIAm

10-02-2006, 08:36 AM

Heap86

10-02-2006, 08:48 AM

Some of y'all know how to kill a buzz, don't you? I mean, the Ravens have a lot of issues they need to work on (particularly on offense). We all know that as TRUE fans.

But some of y'all are pessimistic as hell.

Just take it one week at a time. Take the win, and get ready for next week.

All I can say is that some people have nothing else better to do than bitch and moan.

They did it in 2000, so why would this year be any different?

Mista T

10-02-2006, 08:48 AM

Ted - At the risk of gaining more demerits on this board, I'm just glad there weren't message boards when the Colts were here but I'm sure you would have found something to whine about when they won.

and

But some of y'all are pessimistic as hell.

At the risk of sounding like a Nazi: please take comments like those to another board! :grbac: We don't come here for lectures from other posters about perceived attitudes. We come here to discuss Ravens football. That's plusses and minuses. A basic theme of this board: discuss the team, express your opinions, but don't attack others for expressing their opinions.

If anyone wants to gloss over wasting 3 time outs, 34 yards rushing by Jamal, punting with 4 minutes to go, 2 INTs, 57 minutes of little offense, etc: that's your prerogative. But how about backing off criticizing others who want to discuss them. :thumbdown:

:mrt:

StingerNLG

10-02-2006, 08:51 AM

Nah, they don't need to worry about us at all. Until the 4th quarter.

LOL, so long as the defense can keep us within 7. Any more, and we're sunk.

flraven

10-02-2006, 10:59 AM

While I'm happy as hell they're 4-0, they do need to fix whatever is wrong with the running game. Is Jamal worn out, or is it the O-line not giving him holes to run through. He had a couple almost decent runs near the end, but yeah, 34 yards rushing need to be better. From what I see watching the games and from posts here, its more on the O-line for sure.

And getting the plays into McNair ontime so he doesn't have to burn timeouts would be nice too.
I remember thinking the same thing yesterday as Stinger's comment above, as long as the defense keeps us within 7, we've got a shot at it.

BMORE58

10-02-2006, 01:16 PM

Bitch all ya want about McNair. Did anybody think he would be MVP material after 11 years with the oilers/titans. He has adapted well to the team. He will get better and the 300 yard games will come. He has too many weapons and is starting to use all of them. Teams will have to drop back in coverage soon enough and when that happens maybe and I say maybe Jamal will break loose. If not we have Mike and Musa (sounds like afternoon drive time radio). Ozzie didn't pick up Anderson for window dressing. He is fresh and both can be effective. It ain't pretty and an ugly W is still a W. A great game to be a fan and if you were fortunate enough to be there you left happy and horse.

Ravens'N'Hoos

10-02-2006, 02:21 PM

The one thing that's missing here is a mention of the opponent. A performance against the Chargers this week similar to the one against an inferior Browns team last week in the first half is arguably an improvement, based on the Chargers coming in as the #1 defense. Are there multiple problems - the lack of run production, inaccurate throws by McNair, bad pass protection AND run blocking, odd coaching decisions and poor play-calling? Sure. But the situation is not necessarily as static as it looks.

larrylater

10-02-2006, 02:26 PM

People certainly have the right to complain, analyze and critique, we are the guys paying the bills. Personally though, I don't understand it after a win ---That was the lone goal going into the game!! And we've achieved it 4 out of 4 times. :thumbup:

People have different priorities, over and above winning, it's painfully obvious. They're stat crazy. I swear, if we go on to win the Super Bowl, some of you will still be moaning....yeah but Jamal didn't have enough yards...McNair threw a pick...we lost the coin flip. :laugh:

To each his own but one thing is for certain, you can't do better than a win. :thumbup:

BertJonesMyHero

10-02-2006, 02:49 PM

<<< At the risk of sounding like a Nazi: please take comments like those to another board! We don't come here for lectures from other posters about perceived attitudes.

Yet there are 2 posters continually bashing McNair and when called out,they whine about YBR.But you agree with them,so I don't see you telling them to dial it back a notch.

Thank god the people that do this for a living know what the heck they are talking about.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AvCaxMWcf1FKiXdVyKcUxsFDubYF?slug=jc-mcnairrally100106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Boss Raven

10-02-2006, 03:06 PM

I have to agree with BertJonesMyHero. Anytime someone say something some poster don't like they bring up YBR and I haven't seen a mod step up to quash that yet

StingerNLG

10-02-2006, 04:10 PM

[
Yet there are 2 posters continually bashing McNair and when called out,they whine about YBR.But you agree with them,so I don't see you telling them to dial it back a notch.

Maybe if those people weren't "called out" in the first place they wouldn't bring up YBR. Maybe it's just me, but I thought this wasn't a place to get "called out".

If I were one of those 2 people, I'd actually be a little pissed about that. Come to think of it, if I were one of those two people I'd be very inclined to back off posting here since some mods think it's perfectly ok to be "called out" over a different opinion.

highwater

10-02-2006, 04:39 PM

[IYet there are 2 posters continually bashing McNair and when called out,they whine about YBR.But you agree with them,so I don't see you telling them to dial it back a notch.

Seriously, I don't even understand this comment. Someone "bashes" McNair, gets "called out" (?), and whines about YBR? I guess there's a thread that ties these three events together, but I confess it's not obvious to me.

BertJonesMyHero

10-02-2006, 05:05 PM

But just one example.

<<< I don't know why you keep trying to reply to me. Now back to people who don't reek of YBR attitude......

Person who wrote this is doing the exact thing he complained about on YBR- Then has to nerve to call someone else out for 'YBR attitude'.

Then you have a Mod admonishing a poster for merely mentioning how negative the message boards are in general by saying "At the risk of sounding like a Nazi: please take comments like those to another board! We don't come here for lectures from other posters about perceived attitudes." while he continually allows other board 'type' comments about perceived attitudes from the above alluded to 2 posters. Even mentioning he will sound like a Nazi.

Can't figure out the correlation, I don't know what to tell you.
All this because their sweet baby of a QB turned out to be a bust, they are going to complain incessantly to return the favor. When challenged on the subject, they label the dissenting opinion/poster as someone with 'YBR attitude'. Anyone with an once of football acumen can see we have issues on offense. And it won't change until we have a new coach. Anyone with an once of football acumen can also see McNair is about 80 times better then anything we have had under center. This comment will get blasted, but without #9 we are 2-2.

The thread title was about 'bitching and moaning'. As evidenced by the thread, the thread starter made a pretty good observation IMO. As did the poster who was told to take his opinion to another board.

PS- Don't we have a special forum for fans to continue their QB complaining. I'm pretty sure it is at the top of the page though I could be wrong.

BertJonesMyHero

10-02-2006, 05:07 PM

PS- I actually respect all the posters who are arguing on this thread. They all know their X's and O's. My disagreement pertain only to this one thread and the repeated references to other boards in our debates.

highwater

10-02-2006, 06:16 PM

All this because their sweet baby of a QB turned out to be a bust, they are going to complain incessantly to return the favor. When challenged on the subject, they label the dissenting opinion/poster as someone with 'YBR attitude'.

Okay, I get it, but I don't agree. I don't know, maybe there are one or two people that do that, but I haven't noticed it, not on a regular basis, anyway. I have read honest criticisms of McNair and the passing game in general, but I certainly haven't seen anyone assign insulting nicknames to McNair or completely throw him down a flight of stairs. I think the negative comments are just part of a reasonably intelligent discussion about our favorite team.

As far as the references to YBR, I agree with you, let's stop that. I've been told by one poster to take my act back to YBR, as if I deserved to be sent to one of the seven circles of Hell, and I didn't think I did anything to earn such a comment. Let's stop these references to YBR.

BertJonesMyHero

10-02-2006, 06:25 PM

As far as the references to YBR, I agree with you, let's stop that. I've been told by one poster to take my act back to YBR, as if I deserved to be sent to one of the seven circles of Hell, and I didn't think I did anything to earn such a comment.

I woulda stuck up for you also had I seen that. It isn't really about YBR or 24/7. It's a veiled insult in the QB wars. Going both ways.

StingerNLG

10-02-2006, 06:31 PM

Person who wrote this is doing the exact thing he complained about on YBR- Then has to nerve to call someone else out for 'YBR attitude'.

Ok Bert. Let's get this out in the open then. "Person" was me. I said that. And I said that for exactly the reason I wrote it. I came over here and stopped posting at YBR because at least for the first week or two those that came here were interested in actually discussing football and not "calling out" people as you've called it. For example, I put Heap86 on my ignore list for exactly that reason. I don't need someone telling me what my opinion should be, nor attacking ME for MY opinion. Or putting in the little "McNair bashers in 3...2...1" one-liners that made YBR the great forum it is. You can't deny Bert that things like that, and discussions that turned that way were precisely the reason a forum like this found traction. So my comment you quoted not only was sincere, it was accurate.

But "All this because their sweet baby of a QB turned out to be a bust" also says a lot. You accused T of being lenient on certain people because he agreed with them. It sounds like the sort of the same thing.

Let me be utterly clear on this. I didn't come over here for people to get all pissy with me because I don't agree with them, or go with the flow. And I haven't conciously attacked anyone for disagreeing with me. And yet it's already happening to me because *GASP*, I don't share the grand illusion that everything in Ravensland is awesome, even at 4-0.

Here's a thought. You don't like my opinions, simply put me on your ignore list, it's the easiest thing to do. I'll only put you on my list if you attack me, not for your opinion. But by all means, if you don't want to hear my "bitchin'", then put me on your list. Bottom line, right?

Otherwise discuss the football aspect with me, and leave all the personal shit where it belongs........over on.......errrr..........over there. (General statement, not specific to you Bert)

highwater

10-02-2006, 06:33 PM

It isn't really about YBR or 24/7. It's a veiled insult in the QB wars. Going both ways.

You're probably right, and frankly I'm sick of the QB war. I'm fine with talking about how McNair is doing, just like any other player, but why do people keep bringing up Boller? Enough already -- he is NOT coming into a game unless McNair is hurt or it's a blowout. It really shouldn't even be a topic.

AZRAVEN

10-02-2006, 06:36 PM

Well, I guess the honeymoon is over on this site ~ to bad it couldn't have lasted at least til midseason. It was nice while it lasted.:(

darb72

10-02-2006, 06:41 PM

I still love ya' AZ.:thumbup:

highwater

10-02-2006, 06:42 PM

Well, I guess the honeymoon is over on this site ~ to bad it couldn't have lasted at least til midseason. It was nice while it lasted.:(

Don't give up so quick, AZ. This is just a little spat. It'll blow over, just like the time your girl friend found out that you were. . . okay, that's a bad example, but. . . never mind.

purplepoe

10-02-2006, 06:49 PM

The root of the problem as I see it is this.

People who defend McNair see to automatically be labeld as the "Everything is great because we are 4-0" fan.

And the people who are disappointed with his play and say it are labeled as the "We're not gonna give any credit to McNair because we spent alot of money and should be getting better results" fan.

And of course Kyle Boller gets thrown into the mix to add to the fire.

This offense MUST get better. Yes, the numbers aren't there and the play has been sloppy. But the pocket presence and poise is there with McNair. That's undeniable IMO. You can read the quotes and listen to the players. They don't panic because he doesn't. And THAT is the single most important thing that McNair has brought.

Seems to me that there is no gray area here. No constructive talk. Just alot of bickering about a player who isn't starting. Some believe that we would be in the same position with him as we are with McNair. I disagree. And again, it's not about the numbers to me.

Many here said that we wouldn't beat a quality team after the first 3 games. Well, we just did.

PP

BertJonesMyHero

10-02-2006, 06:54 PM

Yea- Just a spat. I don't want to ignore anyone unless buck pops back up.
Remember- These QB wars go back to '98 when we started. The Mods here know someone threatened to drive to my house and beat me cause I thought Tony Banks sucked.

And remember- I've done my share of bitching and moaning about our offense. But I blame BB and not many people really want to do that. So I've caught my share of flak.

As for the current state of affairs- The offense has been same ole so on that we agree. Where we differ is the QB. I believe he has made us better while another group think we could be doing the same thing with the other guy. The bigger issue for me on this thread was enjoying the comeback win, and trying to quash the old vs new web site insults (and the 'go post somewhere else') type comments.

AZRAVEN

10-02-2006, 07:11 PM

I still love ya' AZ.:thumbup:

Aw shucks, Darb, I had no idea... I'm overwhelmed but I love ya too, big guy.. :laugh: :laugh:

darb72

10-02-2006, 07:11 PM

Yea- Just a spat. I don't want to ignore anyone unless buck pops back up.

About that. Is there a limit as to how many people you can put on the ignore list?

Not that there are that many on mine, but out of curiosity.:)

AZRAVEN

10-02-2006, 07:13 PM

Don't give up so quick, AZ. This is just a little spat. It'll blow over, just like the time your girl friend found out that you were. . . okay, that's a bad example, but. . . never mind.

I hear what you're saying High, but as you can see things don't really ever blow over. Grudges that started at YBR have already wormed their way into the phsyce of this site. It's probably only a matter of time until this place implodes the same way YBR did. I guess the reality is that football is just to volitle a subject to ever allow for civilized discussions for any lenght of time.

Mista T

10-03-2006, 12:39 AM

4-0 is great. But I'll give the credit to where it is due: the Defense. Without it, we might be 1-3.

OK, to be fair: let's make it "the Defense plus 6 minutes of Offense".:rolling:

Sports Steve

10-03-2006, 05:59 AM

4-0 is great. But I'll give the credit to where it is due: the Defense. Without it, we might be 1-3.

OK, to be fair: let's make it "the Defense plus 6 minutes of Offense".:rolling:

What ever it takes to do the job. 4-0 Yeah Baby

:jester: :jester:

Greg

10-03-2006, 10:37 AM

No, the difference is we're 4-0 and not 2-2, with 2 of those wins coming in a fashion previously unattainable under you know who.
Again, that is just not true. Boller has had a few come from behind wins in the last few minutes of games. This is why so many of those who are "huggers" stick up for Boller. I guess I fit that mold though I think McNair's calmness does certainly help in these spots. But Boller gets a bad rap. Posters act like he couldn't do anything correctly and focus on his mistakes.

highwater

10-03-2006, 01:01 PM

I think your last statement is only partially true. I agree that posters focus on Boller's mistakes but credit was given to him as well whenever he did anything correctly.

oldfan, I mean Tex, I disagree -- I think Greg is absolutely right. Boller has not been stellar but he does get a bad rap. The tripping, mentioned in another thread, is a perfect example. Whenever Boller fell down last season, fans killed him, but McNair has done the same thing three or four times this season (including preseason) but no one mentions it.

BTW, are you a fan of Tex Ritter? Yes, I know who he is.

AZRAVEN

10-03-2006, 01:42 PM

AZRAVEN

10-03-2006, 05:42 PM

Heap86

10-03-2006, 06:55 PM

By the same token, Tex, McNair has committed some glaring errors already this season ( overthrowing, underthrowing receivers, dumb interceptions) and they are totally ignored simply because we have won games primarily due to our defense. Boller made the same type of mistakes and was crucified and the games he did win were almost always credited to the defense. As I said in another thread, it is simply not possible to have a rational discussion of quarterbacks. And before I'm hit with the usual "Boller Hugger" tag ~ forget it ~ never was and never will be.

McNair's problems have not been ignored, but McNair still is new to this Offense, and weither you guys believe it or not when you play with one team for 11 years the transition is tough.

Boller has had 3 years, and believe it or not McNair is almost in a rookie type situation here, its the same game but different verbage, plays, routes, timing. The game can speed up when you are unsure of what to do at times. I never expected McNair to be totally comfortable until late in the year.

You can say that I am making up excuses for McNair, Blah, Blah!! but Boller has had more than enough time to make his transition. Maybe Boller will benefit from sitting, Maybe not.

McNair has had 4 months, Boller 3 years. It doesn't matter if the player is a rookie or 20 year vet, transitions take time. Alot of vet QB's like Bledsoe, Trent Green and Brad Johnson made quick transitions on other teams because they came to a system that they already played in and knew inside and out, and McNair did not. If you do the same thing for so long, its becomes hard to do something different.

You can have a rational discussion here, but don't expect everyone to agree with you.

StingerNLG

10-03-2006, 10:06 PM

That's fine, however, the last time I looked games are 60 minutes long and it would be very nice if he would expend the same level of effort for longer than the last 3 minutes of the game. That is NOT going to cut it all season.

Yes it would. It would be nice not sitting in the 4th quarter behind in the score yelling to the field, "A field goal isn't going to cut it this week!!". Imagine what's going to happen if the offense plays this poorly in the beginning and middle of the game and Denver somehow gets a 2 touchdown lead on us.

MikeinGlennDale

10-03-2006, 11:00 PM

Steve McNair is the first Baltimore Ravens quarterback who invokes a tremendous feeling of hope.

As I tell anyone who will listen, you will never meet a Ravens fan that was happy to see Trent Dilfer get released.

A great question that was posed to me at the game..."would you prefer a Peyton Manning led offense that can't win a super bowl; or a Dilfer-like offense that eekes out a win?"

Obviously, I will take a Super Bowl championship always over a regular season stud that chokes under pressure.

This team will go as far as Steve stays healthy. Clearly reminicent of the Shannon Sharpe vs. JAX game years ago.

Go RAVENS!

Dabruise

10-03-2006, 11:20 PM

Posters act like he couldn't do anything correctly and focus on his mistakes.

This is the problem I have with all the moaning. We're 4-0 and so many "fans give the obligatory " It's great to be 4-0 BUT... Then they launch into a two paragraph dissecting the negative. How about dissecting the positive aspects of the game. I'll give you a few. Mac launched three absolute bombs. No question he can get the ball downfield. One of those bombs found Derrick Mason in stride. He couldn't make the catch. If he led Mason by another 6 inches at the 7, he would have cruised in. If Wilcox had just gone down with the ball, (By the way, I think his wrist was hurt on the play) we surely could have pushed it in.

Just two plays and we'd have won 29 -13 and McNair would have added another 60 yards and at least one TD to his totals.

How about this, We've had relatively few sacks this year. In this game, McNair and his line were very much in sync.

There's just as equal chance that our offense could actually improve significantly to its chance to tank.

MikeinGlennDale

10-03-2006, 11:45 PM

That is a great take. I'll also emphasize the point that the O'line provided great pass protection in the final minutes. Of course the naysayers will say that SD "Martyballed it" and perhaps they are correct.

Nevertheless Steve had time to get the ball where it needed to be. 86 did the rest.

FHRaven

10-04-2006, 09:17 AM

This is the problem I have with all the moaning. We're 4-0 and so many "fans give the obligatory " It's great to be 4-0 BUT... Then they launch into a two paragraph dissecting the negative. How about dissecting the positive aspects of the game. I'll give you a few. Mac launched three absolute bombs. No question he can get the ball downfield. One of those bombs found Derrick Mason in stride. He couldn't make the catch. If he led Mason by another 6 inches at the 7, he would have cruised in. If Wilcox had just gone down with the ball, (By the way, I think his wrist was hurt on the play) we surely could have pushed it in.

Just two plays and we'd have won 29 -13 and McNair would have added another 60 yards and at least one TD to his totals.

How about this, We've had relatively few sacks this year. In this game, McNair and his line were very much in sync.

There's just as equal chance that our offense could actually improve significantly to its chance to tank.

As bad as the offense looked again I did see some encouraging signs like the things you wrote. I think the next 4 games will be a better barometer for how good (or bad) this team can be this year.

FHRaven

Heap86

10-04-2006, 09:37 AM

This is the problem I have with all the moaning. We're 4-0 and so many "fans give the obligatory " It's great to be 4-0 BUT... Then they launch into a two paragraph dissecting the negative. How about dissecting the positive aspects of the game

I agree 100%, Its starting to make reading this board somewhat of a downer.

Its seems like some of these guys just want to nitpick McNair to justify the bashing of Boller in the past.

AZRAVEN

10-04-2006, 10:41 AM

So, if I understand you right you are not happy unless the Ravens clobber every opponent something like 34-0 and McNair tosses three TD passes and Jamall runs for 130 yards? Gimme a break please. You are worrying about nothing.

Where did I say anything about him needing to score 34 points, if I recall correctly it was McNair himself who was throwing around specific numbers of points his offense would score, all I'm saying is playing for the last three minutes of a game is not going to cut it for any length of time. I would like to see him show a similar level of competance throughout the game and not just the last two or three minutes. Why is that so difficult to understand?

highwater

10-04-2006, 01:34 PM

If he maintained a rating of 113 throughout the whole game he would be the greatest QB in NFL history. Not asking for much are you?:rolleyes:

AZ said a "similar level of competence," he didn't insist on a 113 rating. It's okay to play reasonably well before the two minute warning. I believe that was the point he was making.

StingerNLG

10-04-2006, 01:58 PM

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/jarosh-gaf/jokerpopcorn.gif

I'm truely enjoying reading this. I'm waiting for someone to jump in and say they've been watching football for 50 years. That would make this thread just dandy. :)

Art-Florida

10-04-2006, 02:38 PM

I wanna "bitch and moan" about country singers. What-in-hell do they have to do withh pro football anyway?

Hank Williams Jr. - A no-talent hack that must have slept with an ABC executive.

Johhny Cash - A deadbeat.

Tex Ritter - Got lucky with "High Noon" and never rever got caught caressing John, prior to "Threes company".

The only thing more annoying than country music is that verbal excretia called rap.

highwater

10-04-2006, 03:10 PM

Wow Art, that was out of left field. I agree that Hank Williams Jr. is a no-talent hack, but for the record, Johnny Cash is not a deadbeat, he's just dead. I have no comment about Tex Ritter, but from what I've read, he was a widely respected artist.

And "Three's Company" pretty much sucked, although I did enjoy the honeys (and I don't mean John Ritter).

BTW, John Ritter's son (and Tex Ritter's grandson) was very good on "Joan of Arcadia."

This thread has now officially sailed into OT territory, but it was fun while it lasted.

AZRAVEN

10-04-2006, 03:16 PM

Fine Tex, have it your way it doesn't matter that our offense does virtually nothing all game as long as that 113 rating shows up in the last two minutes. I'm sure we will be undefeated this season. As I said previously it is impossible to engage in a reasonable discussion of quarterbacks on any Ravens forum and it's really not worth the bother arguing.

StingerNLG

10-04-2006, 04:46 PM

BTW, John Ritter's son (and Tex Ritter's grandson) was very good on "Joan of Arcadia."

He's also now on that new CBS show "The Class". And actually he's not too bad in it.

Heap86

10-04-2006, 05:06 PM

We just didn't have this problem in the old days and we could talk about our team w/o fighting with Colts fans. We saved that for the opposing fans on Sundays. Yea, the town got upset when we lost and the entire town even ran Shula out but we didn't fight amongst ourselves. Not like this and not especially when we were undefeated like in the 60s and 70s.

Thats what makes the invention of the internet so special, You can anonymously say whatever you want.

Its funny because just about all of the Ravens fans I have come across face to face have pretty much agreed that they are happy with McNair and are estatic that we are 4-0. The ones that want to bash McNair are the ones who do it behind a computer screen.

Go Figure

As I said previously it is impossible to engage in a reasonable discussion of quarterbacks on any Ravens forum and it's really not worth the bother arguing.

The problem is that not everyone sees it your way, so expect people to disagree, so if you feel this way, maybe you should'nt bother arguing.

Heap86

10-04-2006, 05:18 PM

Now you want to be undefeated? I would say most fans would have been estatic if they knew before this season began the Ravens would reverse their 6-10 record from last year's horrid season and be 10-6. I would say now with McNair we have a darn good chance of at least doing that wouldn't you? I fail to see how anyone can not be delighted with the upgrade to McNair so far unless you have him on your Fantasy Team, and I would have to question anybody being that much of a doofus to do that.

You are fighting a losing battle Tex,

Alot of these posters are avenging the criticism of Kyle Boller, by saying that we are still having the same Offensive problems with a better and more experianced QB, so it must not have been Kyle's fault that our Offense was so bad in the last few years. These are the same people who constantly took up for Kyle for years on the YBR board. With thier tinted glasses, they cannot see the difference between Boller and McNair.

They seem to think that none of the Offensive problems were Boller's fault at all, and if we had a great O-line and coach, Boller would have been a Superstar QB. Those posters refuse to give McNair any type of free pass from criticism even though he has only been a Raven for 4 months because he is an 11 year vet, and according to them, an 11 year veteran should be able to come to a new team(even though he has only played for one other team his entire career) and have no reason not to light up opposing teams Defenses immediatly.

Mista T

10-04-2006, 08:53 PM

I agree and this is again, why message boards are bad.

Huh?:229031_confused2:

If this board is so bad, I have a suggestion ......:rolling:

We actually have Ravens fans hoping the Ravens lose so they can give McNair the bullet and this will turn into the opposition's board instead of a Ravens board.

:link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link: :link:

That's pure bullshit, Trap. Let's see the specifics..... That's right: there are none!:thumbdown:

Those posters refuse to give McNair any type of free pass from criticism even though he has only been a Raven for 4 months

I will agree with that. After 4 months, a $33 million star shouldn't have to get free passes from anyone. Even the local media seems to be catching on.

The ones that want to bash McNair are the ones who do it behind a computer screen.

There are many Ravens fans outside of bulletin boards who have taken note as to what happens the first 57 minutes of games. Check out tailgate parties, call-in shows etc. I just caught it today from an NFL junkie out in Montana, asking me why we have no offense until the final drive.

:nm:

:T2:

Heap86

10-05-2006, 01:43 AM

I will agree with that. After 4 months, a $33 million star shouldn't have to get free passes from anyone. Even the local media seems to be catching on.

:grbac:

Name one Quarterback who has played in one place for over 10 years that has ever made an immediate transition to another team. It takes time to adjust to new surroundings!!! This isn't baseball people!!

You guys for some reason keep skipping over that fact every time I point it out, why is that? Maybe its because you know I am right.

McNair came to this team later than any other Free Agent QB this year besides Kerry Collins, who I may add, has looked completely clueless on the field.

Alot of people who know this sport have pointed this out, commentators, analysts, columnists, etc.

But when I point it out, I am labeled as being wrong.

I GIVE UP :mad:

Raveninwoodlawn

10-05-2006, 02:39 PM

My god these QB threads suck.

It's like both sides are talking to a brick wall.

What is funny is the 'Huggers' and 'Haters' have switched sides.

But overall...these threads blow.

It's by far the worst thing on these message boards...nobody gets anywhere and it gets personal way too often...to each it's own though because some actually seem to enjoy it.

highwater

10-05-2006, 05:26 PM

My god these QB threads suck..

Check.

It's like both sides are talking to a brick wall.

Check.

What is funny is the 'Huggers' and 'Haters' have switched sides.

I'm not sure I agree with that, but it is an interesting point.

But overall...these threads blow.

Check. Really, what are we doing here? I am amazed that certain posters (not to mention any names) continue to rant and rave about Boller, when the guy is a second stringer who has not thrown a single pass all season. And yet he still seems to attract criticism -- for what? For how he sits on the bench? Get over the obsession.

purplepoe

10-05-2006, 06:15 PM

Check. Really, what are we doing here? I am amazed that certain posters (not to mention any names) continue to rant and rave about Boller, when the guy is a second stringer who has not thrown a single pass all season. And yet he still seems to attract criticism -- for what? For how he sits on the bench? Get over the obsession.

Sorry, but Boller's name would've stayed out of most conversations this season but he has been brought up by those who feel he's gotten a raw deal.

My feelings on Boller are well documented and I've not once brought his name up this season except when a thread has been started with him as the topic.

And yes, these threads do lead to nowhere.

PP

52RAYVENS

10-05-2006, 06:20 PM

For all of you that are not happy no matter what the Ravens do, WE ARE 4 & 0!
Stop your bitchen and enjoy it. No it wasn't pretty, but we won! End of story.:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

When I posted this thread, I was stating my opinion on the many negative members on this site. Everybody knows there is still problems with the team, but for now just enjoy the ride because you never know how long it will last. :grbac:

But how the hell did it turned into a QB debate? I'll never know!:179421:

AZRAVEN

10-05-2006, 06:28 PM

Part of the problem IMO is that any remotely critical comment about McNair's performance so far is automatically construed as that poster being a Boller "hugger" or "apologist". In my mind, the two are unrelated. Boller sucked, that's an established fact and frankly I doubt it will ever change no matter where he ends up. McNair is an upgrade, that's indisputable, however that doesn't mean just because we're 4-0 he's perfect. That does not mean I'm pineing for Boller's reimergence from the bench, I simply don't feel that so far McNair has been that great outside of two minute drill heroics. I would simply like to see him show a more consistant or steady performance throughout the game because I think it gives us the best chance to win.

FHRaven

10-06-2006, 07:50 AM

AZRAVEN

10-06-2006, 11:13 AM

I know, it's kinda sad really.. :(

FadeToBlack

10-06-2006, 11:38 AM

It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.

Greg

10-06-2006, 12:03 PM

It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.
Thanks for the permission! LOL.

I have said this endlessly. But if I make the mistake, that I apparently don't have permission to make, of stating we can see that McNair's issues behind this OL mean that Boller can't be written off because behind a good OL we would see his numbers improve just like we would McNair's.

Yes, McNair is better, but his problems thus far show that our passing problems with Boller were certainly not all of his. He had piss-poor targets for a while, and never had an OL.

Boller, 69.2 rating, 71.8 last year with Mason, Clayton and Heap (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396152)
McNair, 75.4 rating here (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1069)

Yes, McNair is an upgrade, but Boller isn't as bad as many think, he has not had great talent around him, particularly the OL.

FadeToBlack

10-06-2006, 12:05 PM

I have said this endlessly. But if I make the mistake, that I apparently don't have permission to make, of stating we can see that McNair's issues behind this OL mean that Boller can't be written off because behind a good OL we would see his numbers improve just like we would McNair's.

I'll challenge that notion right now. McNair's issues have very little to do with the OL and very much to do with not knowing the offense.

If my theory is correct, McNair will eventually destroy Boller's production, not to mention show twice the guts of Boller in clutch situations, once McNair finally gets in his comfort zone.

Greg

10-06-2006, 12:16 PM

I'll challenge that notion right now. McNair's issues have very little to do with the OL and very much to do with not knowing the offense.
No need to challenge. We will know shortly. If McNair had more time to throw the ball he would be operating at a much higher efficiency.

I am guessing you aren't claim we have a decent pass protecting OL, are you? McNair is much calmer behind this OL, and that certainly helps.

... show twice the guts of Boller in clutch situations ...
What exactly does this mean? Are you saying Boller doesn't have guts? Or that he can't win at the end of games. The guy has a few comeback wins in his pocket, one with his primary receiver being Kevin Johnson. Another with Clarence Moore.

I don't get the bashing of Boller beyond critiquing his play. Does this guy sneak out at night and beat puppies and I don't know about it? The criticism seems to go beyond his play, like in this case questioning his guts.

Most of us "huggers" will admit Boller's play was bad, with a few bright moments. I think the guy has gotten the shitty end of a few sticks here and would like to see him get a chance with good weapons and a little bit better OL.

If we are going to talk about comfort, Boller had 7-8 games with Mason and Clayton last year. His play obviously improved as his comfort level went up with them. I'll grant you McNair's play, despite the OL, will improve while his comfort with Heap and Clayton grows and he leans less on Mason. But I
challenge the notion that Boller wouldn't also benefit from this.

AZRAVEN

10-06-2006, 12:20 PM

It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.

I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I'm judging McNair on what I've seen so far and it has absolutely nothing to do with what I've seen from Boller the past three years. If I'm discussing Boller I agree he's at best a marginally competant backup quarterback; however, that has nothing to do with what I've seen from McNair ~ which, frankly, so far has underwhelmed me. The two are not necessarily linked in my mind. I'm capable of judging each on their own merits ~ as I view them. I see no necessity to constantly compare them to each other. End results, yes, we are better off with McNair based on the current record that doesn't preclude me from seeing what I perceive as some glaring flaws in McNairs performance so far.

FadeToBlack

10-06-2006, 12:39 PM

Well here's another one of my theories that I hold near and dear, and it's a theroy I've developed over watching this team play over the years.

Under pressure, Boller is half the quarterback he is while not under pressure. By the same token, McNair is maybe 15% less effective under a rush than while not under a rush, based on his ability to get rid of the ball and complete the short pass. So in short, McNair is able to adapt more to pressure situations than Boller with his footwork and hot reading abilities.

You know where I stand on McNair's production by now, it's almost all attributable to a lack of comfort in a new offense. The running game and blocking would help, but not nearly as much as McNair simply getting used to the offense.

Is pass protection important? Yes. But really, McNair is effective even without it, by getting rid of the ball to his hots, usually Mason or Clayton, or by taking off and running straight up the gut of the defense under a blitz.

I truly believe that this offensive line can pass protect as poorly as it does now and we can still win the Super Bowl, if A) they can learn to RUN block better, and B) McNair starts to get used to the offense more.

In other words, I underrate the value of the pass protection with McNair as my quarterback, but find it absolutely a NECESSITY when Boller's back there. I don't think Boller is anywhere near McNair as a starting quarterback, as McNair's statistics will improve immensely with more reps and more practice.

Greg

10-06-2006, 01:04 PM

You know where I stand on McNair's production by now, it's almost all attributable to a lack of comfort in a new offense. The running game and blocking would help, but not nearly as much as McNair simply getting used to the offense.
Eh, I don't think the offense is much of an issue. The plays one teams runs are pretty much the same as another's. What they call them and how often their philosophy dictates they use them changes from team to team, but the plays are pretty much the same.

The adjustment is more to the players he is now with. He will improve as his comfort level with Clayton and Heap grows, not to mention his comfort level of how his OL blocks (what direction a blocker will take a blitzer, etc).

A 15 yard out is still a 15 yard out, but how Mason will run it as opposed to Clayton or Drew Bennett is more important.

AZRAVEN

10-06-2006, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=FadeToBlack;12213]Well here's another one of my theories that I hold near and dear, and it's a theroy I've developed over watching this team play over the years.

Gee, this sounds suspiciously like another well known poster from an unnamed site. :laugh:

Yes, I'm aware of your thoughts on this topic. I believe everyone is clearly on record and why. The reality is nobody's mind is about to be changed.. well, not entirely true, my thoughts are based on performance so far and may change should McNair's performance justify it. I don't think I'm as sold on the idea that his spotty performance is just unfamiliarity with the system as many of you are but I'm willing to be convinced. As far a a super bowl appearance, it's way to early for me to even consider that possibility.

FadeToBlack

10-06-2006, 01:24 PM

In re: the 15 yard out

What does change is the read progression. A WR may run the out pattern, but what players is he checking off to before and after? That's where play design does effect comfort. But i do agree there's an adjustment with players as well, as was evidenced in McNair's Favrean-like "punt" to the defense in the first half.

AZRaven, I respect the manner you defend your positions, which is why I like this site. We may bait each other from time to time, but it'll never get out of hand. I tend to give a free pass to proven MVPs, but maybe some people are more "what have you done for me lately?" We'll soon see.

AZRAVEN

10-06-2006, 01:50 PM

FTB, thanks for the respect. I hope you are right, that it won't get out of hand here but as with everything else I'm taking a "wait and see" approach because we don't know who all is going to show up over here.
I don't think it's as much "what have you done for me lately" with me as I just don't understand why he seems to be having such a difficult time adjusting to our ten play playbook. It just seems to me that if he can pull the rabbit out of the hat in the last three minutes he should be able to do it earlier in the game ~ but I have never professed being an "expert" on the game, I'm just a fan who loves my team and wants them to succeed. Yes, by our record it's obvious we are succeeding but I just have concerns about how it's happening and how well we will be able to sustain our success.

Ravens'N'Hoos

10-06-2006, 06:57 PM

The Washington Post actually had an interesting story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/05/AR2006100501801.html)about McNair and how much more clutch he is than Boller or any other Ravens QB was.

In particular, note the following:

"Last season, the Ravens were 1-10 when trailing after three quarters, and four of those losses were decided by a touchdown or less."

Steve McNair vs. Kyle Boller in the final 2:00
Boller career rating: 54.8
McNair career rating: 76.6
McNair rating in 2006: 124.8

Out of his 34 starts as a Raven, Kyle led a 4th Quarter comeback three times, once in the last 2 minutes. Obviously, Steve has done so in the last 2 weeks.

I would never say Boller never led us on a comeback - obviously he did three times - but nor should anyone equate our chances in the situations in which we found ourselves the last two weeks under McNair with how we would have done in those situations with Boller.

On another note, it was nice to see a pretty extensive Ravens story in the Post. You should check it out - the graphics are also pretty interesting. They have one that lists each Ravens QB and the comebacks he's led, and a list of the best 4th Quarter comebacks the Ravens have had along with a description of each one.

AZRAVEN

10-07-2006, 12:39 PM

Interesting article rnh, but I think you could probably provide similar statistics for any of the other quarterbacks the Ravens have had, with the exception of Grbac (pre-Ravens). The guy is done as a starter in Baltimore, he is nearly done in any capacity in Baltimore and probably the NFL as a whole so I must say I can't see why it's necessary to keep beating the guy up. He wasn't the problem child that Leaf was or McNown or Marinovich orsome of the other junkyard quarterbacks who have been drafted into the NFL. Cripes, leave the kid alone and let him fade quietly into the sunset.

Mista T

10-12-2006, 12:58 PM

It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.

It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair was a far superior player to Boller.;) But no more, based on 5 games, which should be more than ample to pick up the Ravens playbook.

McNair used to be a to 10 NFL QB. He is now looking to be in a downward spiral, headed towards the "washed up" category. Monday night's QB performance was among the worst I've seen from a Ravens QB. A notch or two above Stoney Case vs. KC and Redman vs. St. Louis, but nothing I expected to see from a 33 year old vet former co-MVP.

The Titans knew what they were doing when they let him go. They (and McNair's agent) saw Oz as a sucker waiting to be hosed.

:nm:

btw: Let's all hope that I have been wrong, and that McNair turns things around, quickly.

:T2:

larrylater

10-16-2006, 02:16 PM

A notch or two above Stoney Case

Ouch! :laugh:

Greg

10-16-2006, 05:34 PM

Boller in Denver, 2005:
Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD
39 23 59.0 251 1 2 65.2 2 0 2 3 1.5 2 0

McNair, 2006:
Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD
34 20 58.8 165 0 3 34.6 2 11 2 15 7.5 9 0

Uh, Dude, according to the stats Boller out-played McNair in Denver. Higher completion percentage, higher rating, each with one lost fumble not in those stats. At some point somebody is going to need the throw in the towel for some of the posters here, they are just taking a beating. And in some cases by their own hand.

Hey, McNair did outrush Boller in Denver, maybe we should use him as a RB! </sarcasm>

StingerNLG

10-16-2006, 06:17 PM

At some point somebody is going to need the throw in the towel for some of the posters here, they are just taking a beating. And in some cases by their own hand.

Now Greg. :jester:

Greg

10-16-2006, 06:55 PM

You are correct, and I specifically did not target a specific poster when putting that up but man.

You know, if you google shit up before posting it keeps you from saying stupid stuff. I know, I have posted some dumb stuff and learned to check my facts before throwing up nonsense.

StingerNLG

10-16-2006, 06:59 PM

I was just teasing you Greg. :) Believe me, I am exerting so much will power right now it's not even funny. All for you my friend!! Hehhee

Greg

10-16-2006, 07:08 PM

If you actually watched the game he looked like a bewildered high school kid trying to compete against full grown men that were NFL caliber football players.
I watched the game and he had 3-4 complete bonehead plays. AND HE STILL HAD BETTER STATS AND STILL GAVE US A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN.

I have exercised a lot of restraint in not using your name or use "you" in my posts to insure I was attacking your take and not you. I expect the same from you. Don't insuate other people aren't watching the games or are stupid because they don't come to the same conclusion as you.

highwater

10-16-2006, 07:36 PM

He played that game like a bumbling idiot half drunk.

Speaking of which . . . oh, never mind, I'll be on my good behavior too.

StingerNLG

10-16-2006, 07:42 PM

It's very very hard.

I watched the game and he had 3-4 complete bonehead plays. AND HE STILL HAD BETTER STATS AND STILL GAVE US A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN.

People forget he threw a late touchdown to Clayton to bring that game within 2 points. But why cloud the issue further? McNair played oh so much better than Boller in Denv............oh wait. :P

highwater

10-16-2006, 07:45 PM

:Tell you what, Boller gets most of his "stats" in meaningless drives that end up with a turnover or zero points.

17 for 31, 226 yards, three TDs (two in the fourth quarter).

:He, like Anthony Wright (who actually was even better at it) are great at moving the ball between the 40 yard lines but after that they suck wind.

17 for 31, 226 yards, three TDs (two in the fourth quarter).

LOL at "between the 40 yard lines" -- I've heard about moving it between the 20s, but between the 40s? :laugh:

StingerNLG

10-16-2006, 07:47 PM

I've heard about moving it between the 20s, but between the 40s?

Back then, there were no 20 yard lines you know? ROFL

highwater

10-16-2006, 07:51 PM

Back then, there were no 20 yard lines you know? ROFL

Well, sure, he's been watching football for . . . damn! I can't do it! MistaT, have pity on this fool! (I mean me).

FHRaven

10-17-2006, 08:28 AM

If those two tipped passes are justification for Boller having a good game that is the most ridiculous grasping at straws I have ever seen, and is even worse than all the ludicrous excuses for inept play.

So what's your excuse for all of McNair's poor play o ancient wise one?

FHRaven

StingerNLG

10-17-2006, 09:10 AM

So what's your excuse for all of McNair's poor play o ancient wise one?

Well, for example. On McNair's first interception Sunday, which was only his 4th pass of the game, he was "spot on" hitting Colin Branch from the Panthers in the chest with the ball. The decision not to even look at an open Todd Heap in the flat shows amazing poise. When McNair throws a pick, he looks awesome doing it!!

Greg

10-17-2006, 12:17 PM

You are getting your reputation because of the way you post, if you check people with similar views like crazyraven and Heap86 I don't think they are getting the same.

Greg

10-17-2006, 12:26 PM

I don't support anyone, I am just telling you why I think your reputation is taking a beating while posters with the same views are not having problems. I left you my reasoning, you continually insinuate that people who don't agree with you obviously aren't watching the games, etc. You have a very condescending approach to your posts and there is only room for one condescending, arrogant, pompous windbag on this board. I have the job.