Just to prove a point [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Forums and Message Boards

RavenMad2099

08-17-2006, 05:44 PM

The QB debate hasn't really started up again because everyone's walking on eggshells.

IMO, some people misunderstood the whole thing and took it way too seriously.
For me, it was just a lot of fun. I'd roll through and bash Boller, make a few sarcastic remarks about the opinions of Stinger (or some other Hugger), Stinger would bash me back, and neither one of us took it all that seriously. As far as I'm concerned, those threads were Rants. Everyone who participated took a side, talked some smack, and threw a rew stats around...but those of us who knew what was going on and understood it walked away with no hard feelings.

I know that many hold a different view of the "Boller Wars."
Nevertheless, that was the where I was coming from, at least.

Maybe this subforum will get a little more lively after Boller falls over backwards a few times tonight.
It will take time for people to get comfortable on the new board, that's all.

StingerNLG

08-17-2006, 07:07 PM

Everyone who participated took a side, talked some smack, and threw a rew stats around...but those of us who knew what was going on and understood it walked away with no hard feelings.

That's pretty much the way I took it. The problem, which RM can attest to, is that other people took it WAY farther than that at times. And if you look, they still are over there. Over here it's not about being on eggshells. It's that the people who so far have come over can actually have this conversation without it turning into an old19fan rant.

But you have to admit you were stalking me just a little. :p

RavenMad2099

08-17-2006, 07:34 PM

What do you expect, Stinger?
After you posted your pictures the first time, I couldn't help myself. LOL

Mista T

08-18-2006, 12:30 AM

The personal insults that came along with the QB debates were the undoing of the old board. It was fucking stupid - Raven fan attacking Raven fan. There was no middle ground, regardless of how reasonable that may have been. We went 6 or 7 years of getting along with each other, fending off the inbreds and Clowns, until we started turning on each other. And the blame is just not limited to West Side Oz and Old 19 Whacko. It got way too personal.

That's not going to happen on this new board. I guarantee ya!;)

StingerNLG

08-18-2006, 12:42 AM

That's why some of us came here and left YBR in the dust T. I can't imagine Oldfan wants to come here and make this the 4th forum he's gotten banned from.

Anyway, it's all about the Ravens. And I'm glad 24x7 did this.

RavenMad2099

08-18-2006, 07:00 AM

The old board was not "undone" by the QB threads. It simply grew as time went on, attracting more and more members. As will happen with any growing community, the number of bad apples also started to increase. Rule enforcement, which had been lax to start with, became harder and harder to attain. YBR became a free-for-all...so much so that the occasional crackdown came across as authoritarianism, not responsibility.

For rules to work, they have to be consistently applied. It can't be personal, and it can't be sporadic...and one (or both) of those adjectives could be used often for YBR.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone. I'm not trying to bash, either. In the normal course of events, I would have kept remarks and opinions like this private...but if this new board is going to work as we all want it to, we have to understand previous mistakes to avoid repeating them. If you didn't like the QB threads, that's fine...but at least recognize they were only a symptom of the disease, not the cause.

I'm sure YBR was easier to control when it was small. That follows reason, doesn't it? This new place will be OK for awhile, too...until it really grows, and that's when the challenge begins.

BirdFan

08-18-2006, 08:02 AM

Yeah...what RavenMad2099 said: consistency!

Dabruise

08-18-2006, 11:18 AM

I agree about consistency. But consistency requires either smack or no smack. There can not be levels of "friend smack" or "good natured smack". This is a public forum and everyone who will read your smack won't know that it understood by the receiver. It then can and does elicit a harsh response from someone who does not understand and the free for all begins.

T was right. We actually did talk smack with each other and many who would hit each other hard would ultimately be very good friends and allies. However, there was something different about the Boller debate. It is a mystery to me but the Boller debates created such bad blood unseen outside the designated smack forum.

i fully expect this forum to soon lose its civility. However, we will not allow it to become personal.

StingerNLG

08-18-2006, 11:30 AM

i fully expect this forum to soon lose its civility. However, we will not allow it to become personal.

One goes with the other Dabruise. It always did.

Maybe it's time the forum members started keeping the forum civil if the mods don't feel like they'll be able too. Sometimes when the community has had enough, they'll do something about it. We couldn't do that at YBR. We are in a position where we absolutely can do it here.

One of the things is to keep the smack off the main site. I would say even here. I have no intention of throwing it around, even with RavenMadd even though we've had our fun on YBR with it. And I have no intention of ever going into the Smack forum because I want to talk Football. And we have to make sure any of the troublemakers from YBR don't bait us into it either.

This CAN be done. I find it hard to believe we can't keep this new forum civil. I refuse to believe that,

GreenWave52

08-18-2006, 11:40 AM

I fully expect this forum to soon lose its civility. However, we will not allow it to become personal.
It doesn't have to. There will be diagreements sure, but as long as an account at this board is treated like a priveledge, not a right, we will be fine. That means not letting people like the OldFans or BurghSouths of the world be members and casting out troublemakers quickly back to YBR hell.

This board is like a fraternity and the people who were invited here were considered the cream of the YBR crop. Everyone would do well to remember that. We use the neighborhood bar analogy a lot and it is a good fit. When I post I pretend like I'm talking to the person on the stool next to me. One of the undoings of YBR was people saying stuff they never would to a person in a face to face interaction.

RavenMad2099

08-18-2006, 11:45 AM

consistency requires either smack or no smack. There can not be levels of "friend smack" or "good natured smack". This is a public forum and everyone who will read your smack won't know that it understood by the receiver. It then can and does elicit a harsh response from someone who does not understand and the free for all begins.
I agree. It happened all the time.

T was right. We actually did talk smack with each other and many who would hit each other hard would ultimately be very good friends and allies. However, there was something different about the Boller debate. It is a mystery to me but the Boller debates created such bad blood unseen outside the designated smack forum.
Keep in mind that those threads were often unmoderated. The QB is an integral part of the team, and both sides felt the other was being disloyal by either 1) refusing to support him, or 2) supporting him despite subpar performance.

A little consistency might have alleviated that whole situation before it got so out of hand that the mods gave up on it.

i fully expect this forum to soon lose its civility. However, we will not allow it to become personal.
We'll see.

Mobtown

08-18-2006, 11:46 AM

Sorry, but it is the nature of message boards to evolve in both positive and negative directions. There is no avoiding it. I think t hat fact that smoe of you are on your 4th, 5th, and 6th Ravens board is all the evidence one needs.

Me? I am just here for the free Punch and Pie :179422:

Dabruise

08-18-2006, 12:09 PM

Maybe it's time the forum members started keeping the forum civil

That's what we've been begging for.

What I meant was that people have a tendancy to speak more harshly when its anonymous. We don't live in a particularly civil society anyway. I expect some posters to respond with "That was the most idiotic idea I've ever read"... That's uncivil. However, we will not accept "You have got to be the dumbest jackass that has ever posted" That's personal.

StingerNLG

08-18-2006, 12:27 PM

I expect some posters to respond with "That was the most idiotic idea I've ever read"...

And I expect that some of us will take the person to the woodshed and remind him that this is not how we will act on this message board.

I left YBR totally. I logged off and I will never log back on there again so long as this forum exists. So, with all due respect to you and the other mods and the Admin, I think I speak for at least some of us that say we'll be DAMNED if we let this forum start rolling down that hill.

But we are asking for help. There has to be a standard for which users can join. If you see Old19fan here, given his history I think it's totally fair to whack him immediately and not even give him the chance to ruin this message board. Same for some of the other knuckleheads that we know are part of the problem at YBR. That's just IMO of course.

GreenWave52

08-18-2006, 12:50 PM

And I expect that some of us will take the person to the woodshed and remind him that this is not how we will act on this message board.

I left YBR totally. I logged off and I will never log back on there again so long as this forum exists. So, with all due respect to you and the other mods and the Admin, I think I speak for at least some of us that say we'll be DAMNED if we let this forum start rolling down that hill.

But we are asking for help. There has to be a standard for which users can join. If you see Old19fan here, given his history I think it's totally fair to whack him immediately and not even give him the chance to ruin this message board. Same for some of the other knuckleheads that we know are part of the problem at YBR. That's just IMO of course.
I was pretty much saying the same thing in a thread that BurghSouth started (and was subsequently whacked). I hope he was immediately banned and who ever invited him at the very least lost invitation priviledges. We can police ourselves by keeping our posts civil, but certain posters and especially posters with KNOWN agendas need to be dealt with at a moderator level. Dealt with quickly and firmly. As I said a couple of posts up, this board is a priviledge and not a right. If people are aware that disagreement is fine but being uncivil will get you cast out of our little Eden than they will learn to be civil.

Admin Steve

08-18-2006, 12:55 PM

Maybe it's time the forum members started keeping the forum civil

Ther is a triangular icon up near the post count in each message posted. Click it and it sends shock waves through the moderating team immediately and we can address the problem.

This should be common knowledge to all posters.

Try it.

crazyraven

08-18-2006, 12:55 PM

Keep in mind that those threads were often unmoderated. The QB is an integral part of the team, and both sides felt the other was being disloyal by either 1) refusing to support him, or 2) supporting him despite subpar performance.

A little consistency in the moderating might have alleviated that whole situation before it got so out of hand that the mods gave up on it

A QB controversy and a losing season will catapult a home town fan base into a tissy. That's why I feel consistency in moderating still won't alleviate the situation. People on both sides of the QB debate are passionate but there are some who can't stand that some people like to discuss the QB.

A forum dedicated to the QB is a step in the right direction but it appears that the Moderators here are the same ones from insider, so do they ignore this as they've done in the past and let it be a free for all? I enjoy talking about the QB but whats to stop this from being a smack forum too? I've always tried to be civil and I will try to continue to do the same in both places. When a forum or thread is left unmoderated justice is left in the hands of the participants of the thread, hopefully we can have some lively debates here with out undercutting one another.

Anyway IMO the only thing that will alleviate this mess is consistent play from our QBs

Greg

08-18-2006, 01:18 PM

This forum has some excellent tools that will allow us and even the users like yourself to watch the posters who get into personal attacks. The reputation feature as well as the ignore and report features will help.

The reputation feature has some things about it that will prevent abuse or popularity to be more important than good takes. And no, it won't be public what those things are. LOL.

StingerNLG

08-18-2006, 02:06 PM

I enjoy talking about the QB but whats to stop this from being a smack forum too?

That is going to be up to us. There is no reason to talk about the QB situation in such a way that illicit's the kind of downhill turn that struck YBR. You can talk for example about Boller without attacking other posters with a difference of opinion. You can have a debate that doesn't include childish remarks and things like that.

It's about forging the attitude of the forum at it's most basic level, ours.

There are people over there that still just can't be civil. Don't believe me? Keep reading the Boller is looking sick thread. You can almost anticipate the conversation. It's not a conversation we have to have here.

RavenMad2099

08-18-2006, 02:56 PM

They can't rid of that...that's T's favorite emoticon!!!

RavenTD

08-18-2006, 03:30 PM

Like someone said on YBR a few times.Post a reply like you are talking to someone face to face.Not hiding behind a keyboard.

Here in the UK,all football fans are a family we respect each other for our common love for the great game.Upon being involved in a few smack forums
I was corrupted giving AFCN fans abuse.

But to see Raven fan,going at Raven fan on YBR.Really made me feel sad and bewildered.

hurting

08-18-2006, 03:48 PM

:261695:
I love the now 'driping with sarcasm' icon. Now hopefully people will know when you are kidding or being sarcastic in a dry way.

:141847_smmackbottom
A Mr T favorite?

for good measure: :192214:

Finally its good to see everyone playing nicely over here. I gave up posting alot on the other board due to the hostility. With the popularity of the boar I noticed a clear dumbing down over there.

AZRAVEN

08-18-2006, 05:21 PM

I definitely agree that part of the problem at YBR was the fact that many of you people know each other personally, have partied together, drank together and Lord only knows what else together ;) and so you felt comfortable engaging in exchanges that people unfamiliar with your relationships didn't understand and took offense at. However, instead of staying the hell out of the argument they plunged in head first and made things worse. I always tried, not always successfully, to avoid the topics that tended to become "personal". The other issue for me was the people like OldMan, who frankly annoyed the hell out of me every place I encountered him, who only had one topic of discussion, one point of view, and kept repeating the same arguments ad nauseum. We are not stupid people for the most part, state your position once or twice and then move on to something else [B]we will figure out your position[B] we still may not agree but quit beating us over the head with the same points it's like the old saw about teaching a pig to dance ~ it frustrates you and annoys the pig. Personally, I really like a lot of the features that have been incorporated in this site, they will help keep things civil and if troublemakers are dealt with quickly it will serve as a reminder to all of us that just because we are here doesn't mean we can stay if we become problem children. I hope to be welcome to stay and want to stay here for a long time but we'll see...

Art-Florida

08-18-2006, 07:20 PM

And I expect that some of us will take the person to the woodshed and remind him that this is not how we will act on this message board.

I left YBR totally. I logged off and I will never log back on there again so long as this forum exists. So, with all due respect to you and the other mods and the Admin, I think I speak for at least some of us that say we'll be DAMNED if we let this forum start rolling down that hill.

But we are asking for help. There has to be a standard for which users can join. If you see Old19fan here, given his history I think it's totally fair to whack him immediately and not even give him the chance to ruin this message board. Same for some of the other knuckleheads that we know are part of the problem at YBR. That's just IMO of course.

I agree 100%. I have already spotted a couple of questionable names here. My advice: Totally avoid the use of the second person singular.

If you don't know what means, you're on shaky ground already. Go look it up.

Mista T

08-19-2006, 07:11 AM

many of you people know each other personally, have partied together, drank together and Lord only knows what else together

I don't know "what else together" either, but I'm afraid that if it is too interesting, my wife will find out and I will be banned from these boards forever by a higher power than these other mods!:179421:

Admin Steve

08-19-2006, 07:33 AM

I'm going to bore you all to death with his, and will insert it into many threads as we roll along: Don't forget your 'Report' and 'Ignore' features.

Hrafn

08-19-2006, 08:21 AM

The report and reputation systems are great letting the community help moderators. Another good feature from other boards are warnings. Letting people know what they can do and can't three or four strikes means ban.

The ignore function is not optimal, since it only blacks out the posts of poster you want to ignore, but if thread is more or less hijacked, it will be littered with quotes and respoenses to the ignored poster, making it hard to find the posts your looking for. It only works if most of the board agrees what posters to ignore, and banning is better for those cases imho.

Admin Steve

08-19-2006, 08:25 AM

The warning feature is in ver. 3.6 which we are loading up in the next couple of weeks. I don't think we need it right now.

Greg

08-19-2006, 10:08 AM

And we also have the ability to ignore a poster system wide, so that no regular users see their stuff. As long as the moderators can control themselves from responding the poster will get no responses but can post away!

Hrafn

08-19-2006, 11:39 AM

The warning feature is in ver. 3.6 which we are loading up in the next couple of weeks. I don't think we need it right now.

No need for it now, I fully agree. But good to hear it is on the way since I think it is a very good feature.

And we also have the ability to ignore a poster system wide, so that no regular users see their stuff. As long as the moderators can control themselves from responding the poster will get no responses but can post away!

I fantastic feature, much better than a ban, since banned posters have a way of showing up moments later with a new handle.

Greg

08-19-2006, 02:45 PM

Maybe this subforum will get a little more lively after Boller falls over backwards a few times tonight.
Actually, it got a little more lively after McNair did!

StingerNLG

08-19-2006, 03:29 PM

But as you can tell, lively didn't mean erupting into a smackfest. I'm telling you, we can debate this stuff like adults. If you look over at YBR today it's still getting worse. Our McNair tripping thread is merely a few of us talking about it and *gasp* respecting each other.

And it looks like one issue has already been dealt with, and my hats off to the mods for it.

This is why I'm here, and not at YBR.

Greg

08-19-2006, 03:45 PM

I agree completely, I was just taking a shot at DRay http://www.fanmonster.com/images/General_Purpose/emoticon/pokewithstick.gif for fun.

RavenTD

08-19-2006, 04:21 PM

An early good sign is.There is very good discussion going on in these threads.
And pretty much every post is worth reading.The need to read has become more important than just to post for the sake of posting.

Ravens0587

08-19-2006, 04:38 PM

Is there anyway we can get a feature to where if a certain amount of posters ignore a poster he is automatically banned. Like if a user is ignored by 35-40 posters he could get banned.

Or is that more or less what the warning system will work like?

Greg

08-19-2006, 05:22 PM

Is there anyway we can get a feature to where if a certain amount of posters ignore a poster he is automatically banned. Like if a user is ignored by 35-40 posters he could get banned.
Use the reputation button (the scales) that are on the right hand part of the screen and just above the posters name. If the reputation gets low enough they will ban themselves. But one or even 4-5 posters can do it to another, it takes a lot of posters. And you can't just keeping picking on one poster. After you rate me you have to rate numerous other posters before the software allows you to rate me again.

If you see somebody posting like an ass, rate the post poorly and move on. If you see high quality takes like some of the guys and gals are tossing out, rate it as a good take.

Hrafn

08-19-2006, 05:26 PM

If the reputation gets low enough they will ban themselves.

Don't know if this is off limits, if so just delete it. But was that the reason behind WSO brief appearance?

Greg

08-19-2006, 05:30 PM

He was banned under numerous handles at the other board and his first few posts here appeared to be for trolling purposes, or to start trouble. I didn't make the call but I concur with it.

Hrafn

08-19-2006, 05:33 PM

I know (long time member of insider), I was just curious if it was the new system that worked so well. I know I did my part ;)

Greg

08-19-2006, 05:43 PM

Your handing out of reputation points right now is not to powerful, we will all grow with the points we get and also number of posts, time registered, etc. You probably had a small effect on his reputation but none of us can effect it enough yet because we haven't built our own up. It's a double edged sword deal. The better your reputation the more you can effect another poster's.